Well, I just managed to finish Turnabout Serenade. Overall, I've got to say that I think this is the first Apollo Justice game that doesn't feel like an Apollo Justice game but a Phoenix Wright game. The moody moral ambiguity and hard luck that clung to Apollo Justice in the first two cases is gone here and we're replaced with something that looks good as well as feels good. I think if there's ever any sequels to Apollo Justice then they should follow this formula because the characters really are much more enjoyable when they're allowed to relax for a second and show off their quirks.

I'll handle each of the characters in turn this time.

Apollo Justice: Apollo is allowed to actually shine as an attorney rather than get treated to being Phoenix's pawn and he's actually quite good, even if he does tend to drastically overreact. Honestly, he came off as a lot more like Phoenix in some places (which may or may not be a good thing) when he's gently putting down Trucy's enthusiasm for things.

I don't quite know what to make of a guy who doesn't like Rock music but I'm just going to pretend that Apollo Justice just doesn't like anything associated with Prosecutor Gavin per say. Also, it was a neat trick that Apollo pulled there with the fact that he managed to save his client's life by getting him convicted of smuggling. I'm going to comment on the sentencing for that later.

Trucy: Trucy isn't quite as awesome as she was in 4-2 but I've got to say that she's recieved a lot of character development here. The absence of the Burlesque Humor of 4-2 also made her seem a somewhat less mature character than Maya and more like a young girl that you wanted to protect. If I already didn't know better (thanks to Spoilers), I'd be certain Trucy was going to get accused of murder or kidnapped because that's what happens to Awesome Cute Young GirlsTM in PW.

There's some nice background with her father. Really though, her "Uncle" absolutely screams evil. Seriously, the poor guy could not be more likely the villain if he walked in cackling. Yet, bizarrely, I think this may be PW's tropes working against me because he does seem to be a reasonably affiable young man. Also, it's fairly clear Trucy's Dad just totally abandoned her rather than was in hiding.

Prosecutor Klaiver: I absolutely love this guy and find it hilarious that the most secretive, disturbing, and conspiratorial scene in a PW game is the fact that THE PROSECUTOR AND DEFENSE ATTORNEY SHARE EVIDENCE (which is required by law in the United States *and* Japan, I believe). It's a bit hard to swallow that a Prosecutor gets to accuse a member of his own band and such a case so deeply involved with him. Likewise, Apollo Justice gets to be a Defense Attorney to a case that he's a witness for, but anyone complaining about the real law in Phoenix Wright is just asking for a headache.

I'm glad he toned down the wall banging because that got annoying fast. I was almost sure, when I started the case he'd end up accused of murder too.

Ema Skye: Seriously, she should watch those chocolate cookiees or she's going to no longer be the sexy Science Girl of the series. That was, oddly, my first reaction to her characterization in this series. Otherwise, I really like her character here and its funny to see her come off as more competent than Gumshoe but yet still so completely wrong about everything. Also, you've got to credit her. Apparently, the CSI in Phoenix Wright is worse than Gumshoe since SHE had to test for a bloodstain's importance.

Fun filled fact: I actually believe Gumshoe is an extremely competent police officer. He's just a rotten Detective.

Machi: I personally liked the kid, despite him not having much of a character. I'd like to comment that I don't necessarily think that Machi is going to spend much time in jail. While cocoon smuggling is worthy of the death penalty in his home country, it's not necessarily a contraband substance in the United States of America. It's not like smuggling drugs, so it'll be interested in what exactly he's going to be in jail for (I'd plead perjury if his lawyers actually got him off of everything). Then I'd request Asylum.

Lamiroir: I want to say that I absolutely love her character design and consider her one of the most beautiful characters in Phoenix Wright. I was surprised by her age of 40 in the write-up since Capcom is fairly youth obsessive that you'd think she'd be in her 30s at the oldest. I was half-expecting her to be the shooter for much of the case given that she's blind. However, she was a wonderful source of twists throughout it.

The only weak link would be the Detective. In this case, I was just too distracted by the pure Freud that was his hairstyle and also the fact that his motive was only alluded to towards the end of the trial. It would have been nice to foreshadow it a bit earlier in my opinion.

Gameplay wise, the only weak link is the fact that the damn video had to be watched so many times. I'd like to comment that I also don't really like the Body Language reading system. It's a clunky thing that kind of creeps me out. After the first few times, I just decided to drop it and instead go to the strategy guide so I can get back to playing the rest of it.

But yes, my favorite case yet.

Personally, there was one fun bit of moral ambiguity that does firmly place it in Apollo Justice territory. Had the villain succeeded in his plot then the Chief Justice's son would have survived, the Interpol agent would have kept his life, and Machi would be rich. Honestly, the failure of the crime is the thing to be lamented.

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They found a child unconscious next to a dead body, accused him of muder even though they thought he was blind, despite not having any evidence or motive, and accused the actual murderer with circumstantial evidence. This case was way weaker than that.

How does that make the story weak? Seriously. This is actually one of the stronger Phoenix Wright cases by comparison. The very fact the boy is fourteen years old (even younger than Maya) almost guarantees that he's a prime suspect. We're honestly lucky that Pearls wasn't accused of Doctor Grey's murder.

And I'm not being sarcastic either.

Of course, the actual case makes a whole lot more sense when you realize that the Detective who probably arrested Machi was almost undoubtedly the man who actually killed the Interpol agent.

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That's more of demonizing the accused. You won by giving zero evidence and having someone else do the work.

You are right. My immediate reaction when I saw Machi was "OMG! They killed TWO people this case? The little boy too" and we'd be defending against the murder charges. Even I have difficulty imagining they assumed a 14 year old dragged a 200lb Bulgrian dude down the hall in order to hide the body.

But yes, I figure it goes like this.

1. Ema and Apollo know that the shooting occurred only seconds before.

2. Only one person was small enough to be missed when they came running in.

3. Apollo thought he heard someone escape.

4. They all knew that there was no one in the area but the band.

5. The kid is the only person who actually knew the guy.

6. The police in PW! are terminally incompetent anyway but...

7. Daryan Crescend is the Detective on scene and probably more or less tells Machi to keep his mouth shut or else.

8. Daryan banks on Machi getting found guilty of his crime and him not being able to talk his way out of it.

(Who'd believe such a crazy story anyway?)



Normally, that's actually a very good argument. Except, Apollo isn't a Prosecutor. He's not actually required by law to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the guy did it. Instead, he just needs to be able to prove that his client might NOT have done it.

At least in American Court Systems. Actually providing circumstantial evidence that someone else could do it is enough to get Machi off.

But of course, Phoenix Wright law is only slightly more sensible than laws under Stalin.

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This one reason I think the entire case would make way more sense if you switched Machi and Lamiror completely.


I think the police force actually got stupider since Phoenix stopped defending... Annoying that such a plot device had to be used.


I suppose your right. They could've ended it way better, though, it just seemed so unsatisfying the way it happened.

Last edited by Saloma on Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, that's one of the few cases where a defendant actually incriminates himself in a very obvious manner by accident.

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I like your opinions on the characters. But yeah... this case is riddled with plot-holes and ridiculousness. (And thre are more to come!)

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Yes, yes, yes, Charles, I so much agree with you!
A lot of people hate this case, but I really love it, and I completely agree with most of what you've said.

And come on, 1-5, 2-3 and 3-5 were also ridiculous. They had so many coincidences that it's almost impossible.
But still, 3-5 is the best case ever, and the other 2 are also good.

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Phoenix also got to be defense attorney for a case in which he was a witness. Multiple times, in fact.

I'm interested that your reaction to Valant was 'eeeeeevil' as, although I'd been spoiled that Daryan was the killer, I thought Valant might have been an accomplice more or less until I met him. His personality didn't seem to fit.

I agree that Apollo really shone in this case. As did Gavin.

Unfortunately, this is the only case where Apollo shone :(

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Then you're going get annoyed really fast in 4-4, considering he does his air guitar about 20 billion times.



Anywayhoo, I pretty much agree with everything you said about this case.

One small difference: I didn't like this case as much because there is one big plot hole: Why didn't the USA (or Japan) just say, "Yo, Borginia! Can we have some of the cure for Incuritis? We don't need the cocoons or anything, just the cure. Thanks a bunch!! ^^" Would've saved a lot of trouble >.> (Since, from the way they explained it, you can only get the poison from the cocoon, not the cure. Besides, what's so bad about if cocoon poison is on the market? You still have potassium cyanide, and atroquinine, and about 20 billion other poisons )


Oh, and I hate Klavier. But I won't get into that now. (Kristoph too)

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Valant is a good case of obfuscation I agree, he seems like a genuinely affable guy but he's an uncle in a game where close relations but not the actual parent is almost a guarantee for Evil. Likewise, he didn't adopt Trucy which says something to me about the man's real relationship to his fellow magician. Maybe I'm making too much of it but he just seems an ideal Phoenix villain.

Since I'm halfway through 3-4, it's also easy to see he's one of the more sympathetic villains too.

My take on him is that, as a killer (if he turns out to be one) that he's more like than

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EDIT: 444th post! Whee! I'm 2/3s evil! :D

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Looks like some people have an interesting opinion of what a Villain is.

Anyway, I like this ambiguity. If this game was supposed to be a PW game, it'd have him as the main character, and if they all go like 4-3 from now on, then I'll start sulking. I want dark chessmasters, hard luck, moodiness!

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I thought it was weak that poor Machi was accused of murder even though the only evidence they found was his fingerprints on the air vent. They thought Machi was blind and anyway he would have been far too small to fire a revolver.
I thought the "Machi pretending he was blind" thing was weak though.
It wasnt the worst case, it wasnt too bad.
Why couldnt Machi just get the cure for incuritus from the cocoon?

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I think the funny part (not funny 'ha ha' but funny ironic) is the fact that such a brilliantly devious plan was ruined by the fact that the Police Officer panicked. Machi could have gotten the cocoon from Klaiver's guitar with not nearly the effort that it went to murdering the Interpol officer and no one would have been the wiser.

Hell, Klaiver would have probably overlooked the crime on the basis that it was to save a young man's life.

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Worst part of the case:

: Hey I couldn't do it, I didn't even have a motive
: Neither did Machi!
: OH HE SPENT A LONG TIME WITH HIM MAYBE HE HAD A MOTIVE

I didn't get the idea that Zak left Trucy to Phoenix, or even asked him to look after her, or thought about what would happen to her at all. It seems that the child welfare system doesn't exist in the Ace Attorney universe, and I got the idea that Phoenix was the only person around who cared enough to be a dad to her.

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Equally likewise, Trucy just latched onto someone when her Daddy up and abandoned her.

It depends on how much you want to dislike Zak Graymare.

For me, the ambiguity about him is some of his most appealing qualities.

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I don't really hate Zak, myself - I think it's equally likely that after Zak disappeared, Phoenix simply...quietly took her to the offices and was caught up in trying to figure out what to do with her.
After finding no other immediate relatives and minus the assistance of Valant who was dealing with his own problems, I guess the only option left open was just to take her in.

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A good review, but I'd like to see more comments on stuff like the case and trial itself, as opposed to just the characters.

I, too, found it odd that you did not point out the biggest problem with this case-how utterly impossible it was for him to be the culprit. Here's why:

-He was blind(at the time of the arrest, they did not know that was a lie).

-LeTouse clearly said he did not know the culprit, but he definitely knows Machi.

-It's unthinkable that a boy Machi's size, blind or not, would easily be able to get a gun of a trained interpol agent.

-Shooting a high-calibur gun like that would dislocate the shoulder of an untrained adult, so it would do much worse to a frail kid like Machi. He certainly wouldn't have been in any condition to climb a ladder and escape through the vent. And also, he clearly does not seem to be injured when you see him.

-Once again disregarding his lack of sight, it's downright impossible that he would have been able to steal a guitar and take it, along with the huge body, all the way up to the stage with his frail figure, let alone without without being seen.

-And even if he knew how to operate that platform, finding the controls on that mess of a stage would be some task for a blind kid.

-He wouldn't be able or have reason to knock himself unconsious either.


I agree that Lamiroir would have made more sense as a suspect.

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Well I knew that Machi was an unlikely suspect, but after having to continue a case after a Broken Neck and no supporting evidence in Phoenix Wright 2, I've long since given up paying much attention to the implausibilities of cases. Let's not forget that the climax of Trial 1-4 was accusing Edgeworth's 14 year old self of murdering his father in an elevator.

The Police in PW L.A. are morons, but we knew that.

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Let's not forget their "This reciept has a girl's name on it so let's arrest her without any evidence" in the very first case you investigate.

He was nine at the time of his father's death, actually. Also, he accused himself. But I see your point

Broken neck annoyed me, but we could have just gone with it, while but Serenade just made me cringe. There was more evidence against Cindy Stone than Machi Tobaye. There was infact minus evidence against Machi. He. Couldn't. Have. Done. It. Ugh. "The gun could of misplaced an adult's shoulder. Machi's arm should be ripped off. But he still did it! Yep!"



This annoyed me too. Note how both messages in 1-2 and 2-1 are both loved ones. Seriously! [/rant]

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-In case 1-4, I don't see why this was so impossible. He remembered throwing the gun and hearing a shot, and when he woke up, his father was dead. And he did accuse himself, so it is not like he was really charged officially.

-In case 2-1, I gotta admit I thought the same thing. A person with a broken neck fancily writing out their killer's name? At the very least, however, I think it would be possible for a person with a broken neck to write. Not a medical expert, but I do know you can survive a broken neck. Just not sure of the writing thing, but as long as you don't move your neck or head, it might be possible. At any rate, the trial was had to sort out stuff like that. When she was arrested, they most likely did not know he had died of a broken neck.

-In case 1-2, Maya's name written in blood was pretty damning and hardly impossible at the time. Also, they had a witness, and she was found at the crime scene. Even Phoenix could attest to that last part.

-This is more of a side note, but Maggey was not a "loved one", technically, as the two of them weren't dating.

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They were going to get married. That's being loved in my book.

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Where did you get that from? Them even dating was a misunderstanding. She tells Phoenix herself that, in reality, he had just covered for her at work once, and she got him the glove as a way of thanking him. Everything about their alleged "relationship" was made up by other people jumping to conclusions.O_O

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If that's the case, it was a simple misunderstanding on my part. Sorry. It wasn't very clear.

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A lot of people make that mistake, so don't worry about it.^^ Poor Maggey, though.XD

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Again, I think that gamers are trying to assume that the police are supposed to be reasonably competent. Instead, it's important to realize Phoenix keeps getting these cases because they're not.

Machi couldn't have done it.

Absolutely right.

....except that's what Apollo has to prove because the police are idiots. Of course, in this case, Machi is a hastily arranged fall guy by a police officer.

Edit: Of course, I had less difficulty believing Machi could have fired the gun because I've seen kids his age and build use the Magnum 45., a weapon that every kid whose seen Dirty Harry wants to use and isn't as ridiculously potent as the game makes you believe.

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Also, correct me if I'm wrong(i havent played the game in a while), didnt Ema or Apollo state that the person that fired that gun, whether he/she was experienced with it or not, would get injured because of the...force of the gun, or something like that?

Remember that....



Although, another thing...Machi being accused of a crime isn't exactly odd...I mean, our legal system, here, can accuse kids younger than him for murder, at least last time I checked. However, I do find it foolish to accuse the kid just because he was next to a dead guy's body...I mean, come on!

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The thing about Machi is that by the police's reasoning, no one *else* could have comitted the crime either. Through the process of elimination Machi was their only option as someone who had no alibi (by not being on stage or in the hall or where have you). Since they didn't have any evidence of someone else being present, they had to go with what they had. It all fits in with the PW world's idea that "Someone is always guilty and we prosecute until someone is behind bars."

I do think 4-3 stretched it a lot further than usual. It would have made a lot more sense if they had discovered Machi's motive up front, because it's a damn good one - a devious smugger killing an honest agent to avoid being dragged back to his home country for execution! Would have lent credibility to the prosecution's case right away.

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There's Lamiroir, whom they did not know was blind at the time. Her broach was found right by the door after the murder, and it's not unthinkable that she could have been hiding behind the door then left after Ema-thus the door-closing sound that Apollo had heard. And, like Machi, she had no alibi for the time of the murder and was closest to the victim of those present, thus the only one who'd likely have a motive. And she'd probably have a better chance at firing such a gun that the much-smaller Machi.

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She did, however, have an alibi for the body being moved.

There's no proof the killer moved the body though. It could have easily been an accomplice. Either way, wouldn't change the fact that she was the most likely suspect. What was her alibi for that again?O_o

I wonder why they never addressed why and how Machi was found unconscious next to the body. In theory, you'd think he'd have been sent to a doctor or something.

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Lamiroir did not have a motive, but Ema and Apollo both rushed into the dressing room as soon as they heard the "shots". Lamiroir was in a huge ruffled getup - there's no way she could have just hid out of sight of the both of them. And even if it were, I'm sure Ema would have insisted that nothing got past her >.>

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