Lets list off some of our problems with Apollo Justice. These seem to be the main ones

HoboPhoenix and the ruination of his character
Apollo has no backstory or character growth of any kind
A prosecutor who gives no pressure in trials whatsoever.

So how can we kill 3 birds with one stone? By a character switch of course!. Replace Phoenix with Apollo's father. Now there's no HoboPhoenix right off the bat. Now since he's replaced Phoenix, he'd be a lawyer, correct? So thats part of why Apollo becoming an attorney. And since the cases would still be the same, Klavier would think Apollo learned tricks from his father, so he suspects his father is a forger. Therefore he'd do everything in his power to win. Also, avenging what happened to his father would be another reason for Apollo becoming an attorney.

Now, for what I'd call an interesting scenario, Apollo's father could have been a Gramayre and left after he saw the darkness in the troupe. This would have added even more emotion to 4-4.

Thoughts?

His father is already dead. And keeping him alive messes EVERYTHING up since then Thalassa doesn't return to Troupe Gramarye.

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Sorry, comrade, I'm gonna have to disagree. With your scenerio, there is no HoboPhoenix AT ALL now! And don't try adding him in, he's not needed in your scenerio. Next, take into consideration Kristoph Gavin's status here: A person who killed, and plotted the deaths of many, all under an original pretense of getting his revenge on the client who fired him, and who that client hired: Phoenix Wright.

If we had "Apollo's Father" as a lawyer, the question of what would happen to Phoenix would be unanswered. Recall the Game Developers' Demands when they were making this game.

"Phoenix Wright will be in the game".

To put him in a brief Cameo appearance would be nothing short of cheating out the fans of the series. And HOW did they ruin his character? 7 years of planning obviously would've affected him! "HoboPhoenix" is only the name because of the hoodie, and nothing more. He's still fighting for justice for all, as he was many years ago.

This takes care of your first point. For the second point, lemme clarify this: Apollo has... NO BACKSTORY!? I can tell you played the game, so how the heck did you come to THIS conclusion!? For crying out loud, Trucy is his sister, and he's the son of a Gramarye! Heck, Phoenix Wright had less backstory going into his first game, than Apollo got in his! At least we know a bit of Apollo's family as we leave GS4, We didn't even know is Phoenix had siblings until JFA, and it was learned by pressing a random bit of testimony!!!

Okay. Second point tackled. This leaves Klavier Gavin... Unless it's GS1, we don't get ANY backstory regarding Phoenix Wright towards the prosecutor! Klavier Gavin DOES, in fact, have a past with Apollo, but it's through a connecting line with Apollo's life: Phoenix Wright. And Klavier Gavin fights to learn the truth. Sorry to say it, but if you attack him, you're attacking Miles Edgeworth as well, and that is simply ridiculous.

And another thing: 4-3 shows just how much he cares about the law, putting it in front of everything else, even his friendship with one Daryan Crescend. Klavier Gavin is someone who I personally consider to be a refreshing change to the "Goal of Perfection-Minded" individuals we've seen in the past, such as Edgeworth (Early Series), Franziska, Manfred, and even Godot! The only "Let-Down" with Klavier's character, is when we learn he's a perfectionist of a different sort, but still one in general.

Sorry, but Apollo's character development was great as is. In fact, for his FIRST game, he didn't even need any of it, but got it anyways.

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Bad Player already pointed out that the story doesn't function at all if Apollo's father is alive. If he never died, Thalassa would never have returned to Gramarye, wouldn't have had Trucy, wouldn't have gotten shot, and then there'd be no Magnifi blackmail material and no case and no Kristoph etc etc.

Buuut, let's suppose that Apollo's dad had some reason to maybe fake his death, and showed back up after Thalassa went missing, and became a lawyer. Maybe you could say he wanted to defend Zak because he was someone Thalassa (supposedly) loved, and he beat Kristoph out for it, and then got disbarred so on and so forth.

Part of Phoenix's function within the plot is that he knew, or at least suspected Kristoph for a long time. If the same were true of Apollo's father, why would he ever allow Apollo to work for the man that ruined him? I guess you could say he didn't know, or didn't want Apollo to know (for whatever mystical reason it is that all AA series parents are horrible). But now it's getting pretty convoluted.

Rewriting the entirety of AJ without Phoenix could be interesting, but you would have to rewrite it, not just jimmy someone into his place.

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While we're screwing with the storyline, lets make Kristoph his dad!

... You know what? That was meant as a joke, but I can see a few fanfics being made where that is some sort of messed-up plotline...

... One full of holes, but then again, if our "Contradictions" page says anything, it's that Capcom tends to make a lot of holes.

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For the first part of the paragraph, you complete missed et's point. He's not talking about Klavier's backstory, but his attitude. Now for the second part... you just basically agreed w/ et's point. He gives no pressure in trials because he fights for the truth, and your defendants are not guilty, which means that fighting for the truth means not giving pressure so the defense can win. And for insulting Miles Edgeworth? Not really. Edgeworth is like that four times.
1. and 2. End of 1-3 and end of 1-5: This is 'cause he realizes Dee and Damon are guilty, and he's mad at Damon for screwing with him (yes, that wording was intentional). Of course, the 2.5 days of vicious prosecuting beforehand makes up for this.
3. 2-4. When the defendant is innocent, fighting for the truth means fighting with the defense attorney. But in 2-4, the defendant is guilty, meaning he can fight for the truth against, not with, the defense attorney.
4. 3-5, because he himself is the defense attorney.

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Actually...in the comics section, I'm writing a series about how Dahlia is Apollo's mom...so making Krissi his dad is entirely within my sick reasoning. Having said that, I think that the Hobohodo character could have easily been someone other than Phoenix. I don't think I need to explain how screwed up it would be to have Apollo's dad in that place, as everybody else here has already pointed out such flaws, but it should have been an original character.

An original character could explain all the problems et91 pointed out, but not have the holes involving Thalassa. I'm thinking that Apollo should have been given a family backstory of him being adopted (his parents were both considered dead), and perhaps part of his new family could take Hobo's place. Not a father, as that would be too close a connection (he'd know the guy too well), but maybe an uncle (so he'd feel obligated to take the case)? Trucy could easily just be put in as a cousin, and perhaps you could meet more of his family (his adoptive family, of course) to make things more interesting than the randomness of Thalassa being everybody's mom. Some things would need to be changed, like the explanation for the percieve system, but it could work without a massive departure from what's established.

I know that Phoenix's story would not have been explained that way, and therefore Capcom wouldn't have allowed it, all the fans would be left without an answer as to the connection to te Phoenix arc, etc. But, quite frankly, Hobohodo is a huge dissapointment and not the direction Phoenix should have gone in. It ruined the character, and I don't care how much seven years changed him. Phoenix could have easily be a side character, along with Maya and Pearl (thus meeting Capcom's stupid requirements) as perhaps the DA or something. Which would show that Phoenix triumphed, which most people would probably like. This could be an excuse to flesh out Klavier's backstory, with Phoenix investigating him and his brother (could help fill in Kristoph's place 7 years ago, make him a less random-seeming killer), and could make an ndom-seeming killer), and could make an interesting dynamic with Klavier's greater commitment to his band than his job. Besides, Pinteresting dynamic with Klavier's greater commitment to his band than his job. Besides, Phoenix hates forged evidence in the first three games, having him forge stuff (4-1) is absurd. Trying to catch Klavier to make prosecutors a symbol of justice at last? That's reasonable.

I know my changes are fairly large and would involve new scenes and characters, but it works with what is in Apollo Justice quite well and would explain a lot. This is just speculation anyways...

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The only reason Phoenix forged evidence in 4-1 was because it was Kristoph and stuff... not 'cause he generally forges evidence.

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The only reason Kristoph forged evidence in 4-4 was because of Klavier and stuff...not `cause he generally forges evidence.

Seriously. Phoenix didn't have to forge evidence as everybody thinks. While it certainly helped given the "guilty until proven innocent" stupid condition of the PW world, Phoenix should have pointed out the secret passage and the alternate possibilities of how the crime was ccommit. That would make seem so pathetically stupid that Phoenix could have probably gotten off. He said "the real bloody card was put in the killer's wallet". Why not pickpoket Krissi...THEY WERE SITTING NEXT TO EACH OTHER! Phoenix obviously saw the card there, so why didn't he take it, preferably with a live audience ready and able to cconvict Krissi.

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He actually kinda did.



He did point it out. But without the Bloody Ace, he wouldn't have had any proof that that's how the crime was committed. (Sort of like 1-1)



They were sitting next to each other while eating dinner, and Kristoph didn't get the card until after Zak and Phoenix's game. Phoenix then didn't see Kristoph until the next day at court, and I seriously doubt Kristoph brought the evidence that proves that he's guilty to court. He probably burned the card, actually.



He didn't see the Bloody Ace himself. He saw that the ace in Zak's hand was replaced, and figured that the murderer had had to have taken the ace, and they would have only taken it if there was that bloodstain on it, and if that bloodstain were on it it would mean Zak would be facing the other way, and the murderer had to have come from the secret passage, and he realized that it had to be Kristoph because (1) Nobody even knew "Shadi Smith" and (2) Kristoph was the only one with a motive to kill Zak Gramarye.

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Apollo's Dad should be in Phoenix's place? You mean he isn't? *shot*

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I didn't say keep the plot exactly the same. But you could bend it around and keep it mostly the same without making any plotholes.

Anyways, about Phoenix's inclusion, he could still be the law agency Apollo goes to after he proves Kristoph guilty in 4-1

Phoenix ate dinner with Kristoph BEFORE the murder. He didn't see Kristoph until the trial, so he must have been there. And he couldn't just guess that the card was in Kristoph's wallet, he would have had to see it.

And the Phoenix character has to be the defendant in 4-1 for him to be Apollo's new boss; making the two roles seperate makes absolutely no sense.

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The best solution is to have Phoenix wake up in GS5 and say "wow, I just had a crazy dream that I was a hobo and there was some kid named Apollo. Thank god that didn't really happen!" and then have everything back to normal.

Phoenix had seen the extra ace during his poker game with Zak. That was what caused the following incident that ended with Zak attacking Olga. When Phoenix returned from calling the cops, the ace was gone and he was able to deduce logically what had to have happened. He certainly didn't see the bloody ace at the scene. The only time that Phoenix ever saw the ace was when it was in Zak's hand before it had blood on it.

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Hobo Phoenix is NOT a problem.

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Unfortunately, for et, he sees this as a negative. I, however, do not. But if you want me to start giving every single point where he attacks Apollo, by all means, I'll get right on it! But... One thing I can state now, is that Klavier covers up the witness's contradictions on multiple occasions. Mainly seen with Stickler and Alita. And he shows plenty of ruthlessness against Machi as well.

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