Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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musouka wrote:
Here is my problem with this. This game should have been "Phoenix is a part of Odoroki's story". Instead, it comes across as "Odoroki is a part of Phoenix's story". And that's not fair to Odoroki as a main. The game could have dealt with Phoenix's story while still allowing Odoroki to be the one everything centered around.
True true. I totally agree.
Odoroki is actually a pretty decent character all by himself, if only his life did not end up getting messed with Phoenix's. For everything involved with both of them, Phoenix is at least 3 steps ahead of Odoroki, making Odoroki look like someone running errands for him, and the comparison makes Odoroki weaker than he supposed to be. My sympathy on him and wish he could do shine in the next installment.
No, this game is not disappointing to me. It may not be a great sequel to the trio of classics, but as a stand-alone game it is still very good. But if you want see hard-core cases, Edgey time, Phoenix/Maya shippy lovey moments, or hot-blooded old Phoenix very badly, in that case you will be crashed.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Holy Hell wrote:
Eh, I'm fine so far with Odoroki. If anything, he can at least get ultra development in the next two games, if it's that big of a deal. I'm basically where Croik is and so far, the game's great.
I hope the fourth case isn't as insane as everyone's been saying, though.
I hope the fourth case isn't as insane as everyone's been saying, though.
Spoiler:
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Croik wrote:
I think you're right about that part - Odoroki does seem more eager to please, if nothing else, and a bit more emotional as well. Sure he's not brand spanking new but he's pretty much exactly how I expected him to be, in most ways, so I'm not disappointed. If he was completely different on top of Phoenix being completely different, the entire voice of the series would be changed, and I don't think that would please the fans any more.
The part where Odoroki is most similar to Phoenix is in his interaction with Minuki. Thus, that is probably the part that disappoints me the most, since I was really hoping for a fun, new dynamic between the male and female lead, instead of a watered-down version of Phoenix and Maya. As someone else said, it might have been cute to play up the more fiery aspects of Odoroki's personality and let him get carried away more often, then allow Minuki to be the more centered and grounded one...
Or maybe that would be changing too much of the core of the series, like you said. But something about that dynamic is appealing to me.
EDIT:
Naila wrote:
But if you want see hard-core cases, Edgey time, Phoenix/Maya shippy lovey moments, or hot-blooded old Phoenix very badly, in that case you will be crashed.
It's not so much that I wanted to see any of that, but if you are bringing Phoenix in, then you have to explain things properly. Phoenix is a character that has a context, three very long games worth.
Spoiler: gen spoilers
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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But I really enjoyed Odoroki in the first and second case--he was so eager to get his objections across, and his banter with Kirihito especially was adorable. I even rather appreciated that Kirihito and Phoenix talked over him, as it almost felt personally intimidating. Especially~~
Spoiler: 4-1
But then...it's just as possible that I'm merely looking forward to ficcing him.
*is biased, will admit it*
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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In fact, I think I'll go play now~
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Croik wrote:
Just got to the first day of court. I've been pausing to write up descriptions as I play (not to mention work on cosplay~) so I'm not going through the game quite as fast as I could be.
In fact, I think I'll go play now~
In fact, I think I'll go play now~
Masaka cosplay?
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Seems they were confused about what direction to take the series. They didn't want to ruin the closure GS3 provided, but they still wanted it to feel like a continuation of the series. Understandably, not an easy thing to do.
And people are just picky about changes in general. I mean, some people would've been happy if your rival prosecutor was a student of Edgeworth's and case 2 has you defending someone who supposedly bashed Phoenix over the head with a statue of The Thinker.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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DoctorDiablo wrote:
I mean, some people would've been happy if your rival prosecutor was a student of Edgeworth's and case 2 has you defending someone who supposedly bashed Phoenix over the head with a statue of The Thinker.
This = win and awesome. Thanks.
Besides, Odoroki's new and young. It's obvious he's gonna be talked down and taken as some sort of errand boy, because he's young and he's new to the business. And I think Capcom thought people would have wanted to know what the hell happened with Phoenix, and why isn't he in the courtroom as a defense attorney anymore. However, I think so far the fanbase has been mature, and uncaring about the subject, hell, some even wanting Phoenix out COMPLETELY.
Ys, Odoroki hasn't had much development yet, but think about it: Phoenix didn't have it either in his debut. Odoroki's story is just starting, and a good story always begins with action. Gyakuten Saiban 5 is probably gonna be all Odoroki, really. Unless they follow the trend and give Odo a past until Gyakuten Saiban 6.
And I'm wondering: where will they end the series? Or when will they cut it and go with a spinoff? Rockman lasted until the 8th installment and then they suddenly popped an X. Will Gyakuten Saiban have its X, or will it simply dissolve?
...But I guess this should be for another topic.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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El Huesudo II wrote:
And I'm wondering: where will they end the series? Or when will they cut it and go with a spinoff? Rockman lasted until the 8th installment and then they suddenly popped an X. Will Gyakuten Saiban have its X, or will it simply dissolve?
Knowing Capcom, it will probably have at least ten spinoff series of at least three games each, and seven remakes for whatever handheld is dominant in fifteen years.
Last edited by Guess_Who on Tue May 01, 2007 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Phoenix's hologram will appear in a capsule to give the new lawyer upgrades while making a speech how he intended the new laywer for peaceful purposes.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Quote:
Ys, Odoroki hasn't had much development yet, but think about it: Phoenix didn't have it either in his debut.
That's not entirely true, since case 4 did deal with why he wanted to be a lawyer. Though to be honest, it wasn't until I'd played the entire trilogy before I felt really attached to Phoenix as a character. He's the type that grows on you.
GS4 reminds me a lot of Metal Gear Solid 2, actually. It had a lot of the same complaints. But I like being able to step back and view the characters from a different angle. I like that playing GS4 makes me feel like Odoroki is caught up in something bigger than himself.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Croik wrote:
GS4 reminds me a lot of Metal Gear Solid 2, actually. It had a lot of the same complaints. But I like being able to step back and view the characters from a different angle. I like that playing GS4 makes me feel like Odoroki is caught up in something bigger than himself.
Hmm, really? I disliked playing as Raiden because I didn't care about his story or his obnoxious girlfriend. I have no issue with playing as Odoroki. Also, MGS2, from Snake's end was a completely satisfying experience that explained where the important cast members were and their relationships (or current lackthereof) with Snake. Hell, there was even a Mei-Ling cameo.
I can sort of see the similarity in what you mean by "kid getting caught up in something", but I think it works a lot better for MGS than it does for GS4. Just my opinion, though.
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But it is a similar situation - a new character, a new role for the former protagonist. Some people are going to like it, and some aren't. I appreciate that there are writers who take those risks.
(....I confess MGS2 did it better, too. It's my favorite of the MGS trio and one of my favorite games of all time).
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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I wish I could have liked Raiden more. He had his moments, but...
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Ryu-kun wrote:
Agreed. I liked MGS2 a lot as well, and it didn't bother me much to play Raiden, even though it felt like playing a minor character most of time, similar Odoroki The Useless Mascot. However, what really helped was knowing all the time that you'd play as Snake again in the next game.
...but you don't. >.>
Just like we won't play as Phoenix in GS5, probably.
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Sorry, people insulting GS4 really winds me up...
Hypotenuse Man wrote:
The way I envision it is this:
"Mask *jazz hands!* DeMasque."
Win. Just win! "Mask *jazz hands!* DeMasque."
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Psyche-locked wrote:
Lay off Odoroki! So he's a Phoenix clone, ever heard of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'?!?
Sorry, people insulting GS4 really winds me up...
Sorry, people insulting GS4 really winds me up...
Yeah, and people who insult Digimon wind me up, but you don't see me getting all hyped up over it. :/
Calm down, kid. Not everyone likes the same things. The same applies to GS4: I for one liked that game, (Though I swear I HATE Garyuu Wave's song lyrics. *Shudders*) even though Hobohodo overshadowed Odoroki, thus making "the new hero unremarkable"; others, around 98% of the GS fanbase, hate GS4 because of the aforementioned. That's something you can't change, unfortunately.
I do not tolerate bullies. Good day.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Psyche-locked wrote:
Lay off Odoroki! So he's a Phoenix clone, ever heard of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'?!?
Yes, that's why I think changing the main character was a bad idea in first place, you know?
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Ryu-kun wrote:
You don't play Snake in MGS3 and 4...?
You don't play as the "same" Snake in MGS3, no. Not that anyone complained about that, since he was...quite litterally...a Snake Clone. lol.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Again, I don't think Odoroki is the issue. I think he has enough character to stand on his own, though the aspects that are most similar to Phoenix aren't what made me love him as a character. I wasn't expecting and didn't want GS4 to be a GS1~3 remix.
I really wish the writers had been bold enough to geniunely take a risk with Phoenix...
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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BassForever wrote:
MGS2 had the hardest to follow plot of any game I think I've ever played.
It gets weirder when it's late and you're a little tired. And your whole perception of reality just screws up when you decide to watch the Matrix straight afterwards. Reality = Gone.
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Croik wrote:
Quote:
Ys, Odoroki hasn't had much development yet, but think about it: Phoenix didn't have it either in his debut.
That's not entirely true, since case 4 did deal with why he wanted to be a lawyer. Though to be honest, it wasn't until I'd played the entire trilogy before I felt really attached to Phoenix as a character. He's the type that grows on you.
...I did mean that Phoenix didn't have MUCH development, as happened with Odoroki.
I am well aware that both of them do have development in their first game. (And the fact that I know about Odo having development means I should be punished in some sort of way for spoiling myself. XD)
I actually liked Phoenix from the 1st game. His way of thinking and applying sarcasm reminded me of most of the message boards I visit, so it was a plus.
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Quote:
That's not entirely true, since case 4 did deal with why he wanted to be a lawyer.
Case one brought that subject up, and you meet a childhood friend of his, too. That's more background than Odoroki gets throughout the entire game, just in the tutorial case.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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BassForever wrote:
Do we ever learn why the brothers become lawyers? I mean, you have a good idea why the main prosecutors in PW1-3 did (minus Von Karma but he didn't really need one <.<).
Well, do you really need a reason to want to do something? (Granted, one lawyer is already a rock star and in PW almost everthing has an ulterior motive or reason, but...)
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When GS4 was announced, and even when 4-1 was played... we were all riveted to our seats, wanting desperately to find out what awful thing had happened to make Phoenix stop being a lawyer and become a hobo. I think many of us assumed that since most tragic characters' falls have to deal with other people, and the first three games set up this network of characters who were incredibly important to Phoenix... that it would have something to do with them.
And then we find out that the horrible thing was... that he stopped being a lawyer. That everything was just because he liked that little shiny badge so much. Really, it just... it feels like it invalidates EVERYTHING from GS1-3.
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Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Firstly, if Edgey heard of the incident, I have no doubt in my mind he'd break of all contact with Nick. Wouldn't you be dissapointed if your friend did that when he was the one that helped you get out of it yourself?
Secondly, The main difference between say, 1-4, 1-5. 2-4, 3-5 and 4-4 is that the former ones had a happy ending. Ok, they went down to the wire but they still looked sortable. 4-4 looked impossible to Phoenix, and it was. He was accused of lying to the court, how could he defend himself
And then he had to leave his job in shame, and had to look after his new daughter with a really low income (Pianists don't get paid much). His best friends either left him, or couldn't see him much and I bet he felt Guilty when Gumshoe left his job too. And then to see Garyuu, the real culprit rise up and up, with all the accolades and sucess and then Garyuu has the gall to be condecending to Phoenix and act friendly?
Phoenix isn't superman. He basically got by in the other cases with a little help from his friends, but then he took on a case and got his life and career destroyed by Garyuu. Many people would have reacted in the same way, but just because it's Nick, you complain.
Re: So is GS4 a dissapointing as I've heard it is...
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Gerkuman wrote:
Firstly, if Edgey heard of the incident, I have no doubt in my mind he'd break of all contact with Nick. Wouldn't you be dissapointed if your friend did that when he was the one that helped you get out of it yourself?
I'm pretty sure Edgeworth would understand that Phoenix didn't knowingly do it, just like Phoenix understood that Edgeworth was tricked in to using false evidence.
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Guess_Who wrote:
Gerkuman wrote:
Firstly, if Edgey heard of the incident, I have no doubt in my mind he'd break of all contact with Nick. Wouldn't you be dissapointed if your friend did that when he was the one that helped you get out of it yourself?
I'm pretty sure Edgeworth would understand that Phoenix didn't knowingly do it, just like Phoenix understood that Edgeworth was tricked in to using false evidence.
I forgot about that!
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