Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Robin Goodfellow wrote:
My take on the locks is that they represent something that might be covered in a later game. Convenient game mechanics aside, Phoenix says something interesting about them, about how they were "Dark...cold...[and] full of despair". It seems like a pretty odd way to describe Kristoph's motive behind killing Zak if you ask me, but maybe I'm just reading into it too much...
I noticed that too. He could have the black locks because he's hiding EVERYTHING. Think about it. He never said he did
kill Zak and Drew and attempted to kill Vera. It's everyone else who says it. Also he never says why he did it, if he in fact did it to begin with. Maybe Phoenix was wrong all this time.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Miyako Chinatsu wrote:
He never said he did
kill Zak and Drew and attempted to kill Vera. It's everyone else who says it. Also he never says why he did it, if he in fact did it to begin with. Maybe Phoenix was wrong all this time.
kill Zak and Drew and attempted to kill Vera. It's everyone else who says it. Also he never says why he did it, if he in fact did it to begin with. Maybe Phoenix was wrong all this time.
I doubt Phoenix is wrong, but that is an interesting point.
Kristoph never confessed to anything. Most killers confess once they've been caught (as Phoenix notes in 2-4). But all Kristoph did was flip out and condemn the Jurist System. It was still completely obvious that he was the killer, but he still never confessed.
Then again, Matt Engarde never confessed (to anyone but Nick) either.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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BlackJack wrote:
Miyako Chinatsu wrote:
He never said he did
kill Zak and Drew and attempted to kill Vera. It's everyone else who says it. Also he never says why he did it, if he in fact did it to begin with. Maybe Phoenix was wrong all this time.
kill Zak and Drew and attempted to kill Vera. It's everyone else who says it. Also he never says why he did it, if he in fact did it to begin with. Maybe Phoenix was wrong all this time.
I doubt Phoenix is wrong, but that is an interesting point.
Kristoph never confessed to anything. Most killers confess once they've been caught (as Phoenix notes in 2-4). But all Kristoph did was flip out and condemn the Jurist System. It was still completely obvious that he was the killer, but he still never confessed.
Then again, Matt Engarde never confessed (to anyone but Nick) either.
He did admit to killing Shadi, Payne said, and I quote, "He's admitted everything. We're processing his arrest right now."
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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BlackJack wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
Yes. Alive, and incapable of doing pretty much anything that affects goings-on outside prison.
Well, technically,
Spoiler:
I was just discounting his theory. It's a hobby of mine.
Also, I feel like crap when people discount my theories.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Brawldud wrote:
BlackJack wrote:
Miyako Chinatsu wrote:
He never said he did
kill Zak and Drew and attempted to kill Vera. It's everyone else who says it. Also he never says why he did it, if he in fact did it to begin with. Maybe Phoenix was wrong all this time.
kill Zak and Drew and attempted to kill Vera. It's everyone else who says it. Also he never says why he did it, if he in fact did it to begin with. Maybe Phoenix was wrong all this time.
I doubt Phoenix is wrong, but that is an interesting point.
Kristoph never confessed to anything. Most killers confess once they've been caught (as Phoenix notes in 2-4). But all Kristoph did was flip out and condemn the Jurist System. It was still completely obvious that he was the killer, but he still never confessed.
Then again, Matt Engarde never confessed (to anyone but Nick) either.
He did admit to killing Shadi, Payne said, and I quote, "He's admitted everything. We're processing his arrest right now."
But we don't know what he confessed, let alone said.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Miyako Chinatsu wrote:
Brawldud wrote:
He did admit to killing Shadi, Payne said, and I quote, "He's admitted everything. We're processing his arrest right now."
But we don't know what he confessed, let alone said.
Kristoph confessed to killing Shadi. He says it to Payne and to Phoenix. He doesn't confess to Drew/Vera but the yellow envelope found in his jail cell connects him to the forging crime and thus the poisoned stamp. Kristoph is 100% guilty of those two murders regardless of whether he confessed to the second.
Let's not get into another "Maybe the villain is really innocent!" thread
But as for the black locks representing another crime that we don't know about yet, I think it's a posibility. There wasn't anything about Kristoph's crime that seems to fit with the description of them being "full of despair." He was motivated by jealousy, anger, and fear, but despair...? I'd like to think there's a reason for the description we just haven't heard yet.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Croik wrote:
Let's not get into another "Maybe the villain is really innocent!" thread
But they're fun...
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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GigaHand wrote:
Croik wrote:
Let's not get into another "Maybe the villain is really innocent!" thread
But they're fun...
But they're wrong, besides nothing's more satisfying than seeing the villain crushed horribly beneath the boot of Justice!
Unless it's Gant....I really didn't want to see him guilty.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Croik wrote:
Kristoph confessed to killing Shadi. He says it to Payne and to Phoenix. He doesn't confess to Drew/Vera but the yellow envelope found in his jail cell connects him to the forging crime and thus the poisoned stamp. Kristoph is 100% guilty of those two murders regardless of whether he confessed to the second.
I had just forgotten about him confessing about Shadi.
And I had always maintained that Kristoph was guilty despite the lack of a confession. It's just that usually the AA killers confess when they're caught.
Croik wrote:
Let's not get into another "Maybe the villain is really innocent!" thread
Yeah, those are annoying.
Croik wrote:
But as for the black locks representing another crime that we don't know about yet, I think it's a posibility. There wasn't anything about Kristoph's crime that seems to fit with the description of them being "full of despair." He was motivated by jealousy, anger, and fear, but despair...? I'd like to think there's a reason for the description we just haven't heard yet.
Maybe Kurtis molested him?
That's a joke. But seriously, maybe Kristoph was a serial killer on the side.
And while we're throwing random theories around, maybe he was the true "Joe Darke" killer. Remember, they said that that one guy was convicted on falsified and shoddy evidence. It is implied that many of the detectives think that they got the wrong guy. Maybe it was Kristoph!
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
That's one of my rules.
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Deserved to die for a reason, huh? What reason? Because Gav didn't get picked to be attorney? He said as much
. And truly, that's all we really know. When I defeated him in court, I was thinking.. "Is.... that what the bleeding locks were about...?! Geez Gavin, way to overreact.". I hope we DO find out more, because that's a hell of an anticlimax... 
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Jacks wrote:
Deserved to die for a reason, huh? What reason? Because Gav didn't get picked to be attorney? He said as much . And truly, that's all we really know. When I defeated him in court, I was thinking.. "Is.... that what the bleeding locks were about...?! Geez Gavin, way to overreact.". I hope we DO find out more, because that's a hell of an anticlimax...
. And truly, that's all we really know. When I defeated him in court, I was thinking.. "Is.... that what the bleeding locks were about...?! Geez Gavin, way to overreact.". I hope we DO find out more, because that's a hell of an anticlimax... First, yes, that was his reason. He knew that the Gramarye case was a publicity wet dream. Whoever could prove that the famous Zak Gramarye didn't kill the even more famous Magnifi Gramarye despite all the evidence against him would get propelled to the top rather fast. Think how much press Phoenix got from proving a few famous people innocent (Will Powers, Edgeworth, Max Galactica).
I'm not sure that it takes anything away from the ending. I mean, think about it. It revealed just what a petty, murderous psychopath Kristoph really was. Killing a random man for seemingly no reason was strange, but not unheard of. Killing 2 people and almost killing another just to cover up his revenge against Zak and Phoenix for that minor slight. I feel sorry for anyone who ever cut Kristoph off on the freeway.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
That's one of my rules.
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The anticlimax that is... I mean hyperbole, or something like that, was finding out what the locks were. Not so much the end. Petty killer though he is, that's ALL he turned out to be from what we were given in the game, and the deep dark locks were kind of... 'what?' to be honest. Oh well. I guess we weren't meant to really 'unlock' in this game? That is, if that's not what they were. Hell, I dunno.
Unless it's supposed to be a WORK IT OUT YOURSELF thing that Capcom seems to love doing.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Jacks wrote:
Still, I hardly think that a greed for fame, publicity etc is what sprung those dark locks. That's what I was referring to The anticlimax that is... I mean hyperbole, or something like that, was finding out what the locks were. Not so much the end. Petty killer though he is, that's ALL he turned out to be from what we were given in the game, and the deep dark locks were kind of... 'what?' to be honest.
The anticlimax that is... I mean hyperbole, or something like that, was finding out what the locks were. Not so much the end. Petty killer though he is, that's ALL he turned out to be from what we were given in the game, and the deep dark locks were kind of... 'what?' to be honest.The Dark Locks represent how evil and twisted Kristoph is. And I think we both can agree that only an evil and twisted man could do the things he did for the reasons he did.
And as for the "He chose a third-rate lawyer who relies on luck and bluffs. He deserved to die for that alone." comment. I think he was referring to the fact that Phoenix would have lost, and Shadi was going to die since he chose a lawyer that was bound to lose over a much more competent lawyer (himself, of course) who would have won.
Then again, maybe he meant what he said.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
That's one of my rules.
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BlackJack wrote:
The Dark Locks represent how evil and twisted Kristoph is. And I think we both can agree that only an evil and twisted man could do the things he did for the reasons he did.
And as for the "He chose a third-rate lawyer who relies on luck and bluffs. He deserved to die for that alone." comment. I think he was referring to the fact that Phoenix would have lost, and Shadi was going to die since he chose a lawyer that was bound to lose over a much more competent lawyer (himself, of course) who would have won.
Then again, maybe he meant what he said.
And as for the "He chose a third-rate lawyer who relies on luck and bluffs. He deserved to die for that alone." comment. I think he was referring to the fact that Phoenix would have lost, and Shadi was going to die since he chose a lawyer that was bound to lose over a much more competent lawyer (himself, of course) who would have won.
Then again, maybe he meant what he said.
Ah. I see what you mean now, makes more sense that way.
Maybe he DID.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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BlackJack wrote:
Jacks wrote:
Deserved to die for a reason, huh? What reason? Because Gav didn't get picked to be attorney? He said as much . And truly, that's all we really know. When I defeated him in court, I was thinking.. "Is.... that what the bleeding locks were about...?! Geez Gavin, way to overreact.". I hope we DO find out more, because that's a hell of an anticlimax...
. And truly, that's all we really know. When I defeated him in court, I was thinking.. "Is.... that what the bleeding locks were about...?! Geez Gavin, way to overreact.". I hope we DO find out more, because that's a hell of an anticlimax... First, yes, that was his reason. He knew that the Gramarye case was a publicity wet dream. Whoever could prove that the famous Zak Gramarye didn't kill the even more famous Magnifi Gramarye despite all the evidence against him would get propelled to the top rather fast. Think how much press Phoenix got from proving a few famous people innocent (Will Powers, Edgeworth, Max Galactica).
I'm not sure that it takes anything away from the ending. I mean, think about it. It revealed just what a petty, murderous psychopath Kristoph really was. Killing a random man for seemingly no reason was strange, but not unheard of. Killing 2 people and almost killing another just to cover up his revenge against Zak and Phoenix for that minor slight. I feel sorry for anyone who ever cut Kristoph off on the freeway.
True, it is a bad reason, but then again, Manfred von Karma killed Gregory Edgeworth because "he ruined my perfect record." So people killing for dumb reasons can happen.
My guess it has something to do with "the demon on his hand."
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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He's just a sore loser who couldn't understand how some (in his opinion) sub-par attorney like Phoenix could get picked over him. You know how pretentious Kristoph was, what with his whole 'common people have no say in law' in fact I think he referred to him as 'the law' in a very judge dredd manner or in the courtroom he was god after snapping about realising the common people would have a say.
I'd say his ego just snapped after that. What I am curious about is why he'd befriend Phoenix after the set-up after all if he'd steered clear of it Phoenix would have a lot harder time investigating him and building up suspicions.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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BlackJack wrote:
Judge Dredd > Kristoph Gavin
I knew you'd say that.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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If you think about the other times Phoenix used the Magatama, the only people that could be even remotely aware of what the Magatama could do was Pearl, Dahlia and Iris. Dahila and Iris didn't even get involved with the Fey clan until later in life ,eaming that they possibly didn't know the Magatama's full potential and Pearl didn't have anything against Phoenix and therefore had no reason to resist that hard.
Alternatively, the Magatama could be losing it's power over the 9/10 years since it was initally charged.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Kucan wrote:
I have a different theory about the Black Phyche Locks, since Kristoph was apparently "friends" with Phoenix, he may of learnt of the Fey clan and their powers, up to and including the Magatama. Knowing about the Magatama, he may of found a method of resisting it's unlocking capabilities in case Phoenix (or even Maya and Pearl as to why Phoenix lost his badge) started asking questions.
If you think about the other times Phoenix used the Magatama, the only people that could be even remotely aware of what the Magatama could do was Pearl, Dahlia and Iris. Dahila and Iris didn't even get involved with the Fey clan until later in life ,eaming that they possibly didn't know the Magatama's full potential and Pearl didn't have anything against Phoenix and therefore had no reason to resist that hard.
Alternatively, the Magatama could be losing it's power over the 9/10 years since it was initally charged.
If you think about the other times Phoenix used the Magatama, the only people that could be even remotely aware of what the Magatama could do was Pearl, Dahlia and Iris. Dahila and Iris didn't even get involved with the Fey clan until later in life ,eaming that they possibly didn't know the Magatama's full potential and Pearl didn't have anything against Phoenix and therefore had no reason to resist that hard.
Alternatively, the Magatama could be losing it's power over the 9/10 years since it was initally charged.
To all 3 of your theories,
Interesting.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Kucan wrote:
I have a different theory about the Black Phyche Locks, since Kristoph was apparently "friends" with Phoenix, he may of learnt of the Fey clan and their powers, up to and including the Magatama. Knowing about the Magatama, he may of found a method of resisting it's unlocking capabilities in case Phoenix (or even Maya and Pearl as to why Phoenix lost his badge) started asking questions.
If you think about the other times Phoenix used the Magatama, the only people that could be even remotely aware of what the Magatama could do was Pearl, Dahlia and Iris. Dahila and Iris didn't even get involved with the Fey clan until later in life ,eaming that they possibly didn't know the Magatama's full potential and Pearl didn't have anything against Phoenix and therefore had no reason to resist that hard.
Alternatively, the Magatama could be losing it's power over the 9/10 years since it was initally charged.
If you think about the other times Phoenix used the Magatama, the only people that could be even remotely aware of what the Magatama could do was Pearl, Dahlia and Iris. Dahila and Iris didn't even get involved with the Fey clan until later in life ,eaming that they possibly didn't know the Magatama's full potential and Pearl didn't have anything against Phoenix and therefore had no reason to resist that hard.
Alternatively, the Magatama could be losing it's power over the 9/10 years since it was initally charged.
I seriously like these ideas. Smart thinking.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Besides the Magatama looks into the soul to see whats locked away? How can somebody defend against that?
I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama's power.
After all consider the act of breaking psych-locks.
You present evidence and imply that you already know what the reason is normally for the psych locks existance. The Magatama only lets you SEE the psych locks, take that away present the same evidence push the same points and your essentially doing the same thing just that you can't see the progress your making but if you read your opponent's reactions you can probably tell when you've got a lead.
If Phoenix considers a psych-lock somewhat unbreakable, I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama weakening.
That said, Maya does mention something about powers needing a recharge, hence the waterfall treatment in 3-5.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Herr Blondie wrote:
The Magatama could be losing it's power....but it didn't stop it being fully functional for all the other locks.
Besides the Magatama looks into the soul to see whats locked away? How can somebody defend against that?
I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama's power.
After all consider the act of breaking psych-locks.
You present evidence and imply that you already know what the reason is normally for the psych locks existance. The Magatama only lets you SEE the psych locks, take that away present the same evidence push the same points and your essentially doing the same thing just that you can't see the progress your making but if you read your opponent's reactions you can probably tell when you've got a lead.
If Phoenix considers a psych-lock somewhat unbreakable, I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama weakening. That said, Maya does mention something about powers needing a recharge, hence the waterfall treatment in 3-5.
Besides the Magatama looks into the soul to see whats locked away? How can somebody defend against that?
I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama's power.
After all consider the act of breaking psych-locks.
You present evidence and imply that you already know what the reason is normally for the psych locks existance. The Magatama only lets you SEE the psych locks, take that away present the same evidence push the same points and your essentially doing the same thing just that you can't see the progress your making but if you read your opponent's reactions you can probably tell when you've got a lead.
If Phoenix considers a psych-lock somewhat unbreakable, I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama weakening.
That said, Maya does mention something about powers needing a recharge, hence the waterfall treatment in 3-5.Ooh. Also interesting. The ball's in your court now, Kucan!
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Herr Blondie wrote:
The Magatama could be losing it's power....but it didn't stop it being fully functional for all the other locks.
Besides the Magatama looks into the soul to see whats locked away? How can somebody defend against that?
I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama's power.
After all consider the act of breaking psych-locks.
You present evidence and imply that you already know what the reason is normally for the psych locks existance. The Magatama only lets you SEE the psych locks, take that away present the same evidence push the same points and your essentially doing the same thing just that you can't see the progress your making but if you read your opponent's reactions you can probably tell when you've got a lead.
If Phoenix considers a psych-lock somewhat unbreakable, I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama weakening. That said, Maya does mention something about powers needing a recharge, hence the waterfall treatment in 3-5.
Besides the Magatama looks into the soul to see whats locked away? How can somebody defend against that?
I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama's power.
After all consider the act of breaking psych-locks.
You present evidence and imply that you already know what the reason is normally for the psych locks existance. The Magatama only lets you SEE the psych locks, take that away present the same evidence push the same points and your essentially doing the same thing just that you can't see the progress your making but if you read your opponent's reactions you can probably tell when you've got a lead.
If Phoenix considers a psych-lock somewhat unbreakable, I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama weakening.
That said, Maya does mention something about powers needing a recharge, hence the waterfall treatment in 3-5.By the time Phoenix uses it on Kristoph it's been 9 and a half years since Pearl charged up with spirtual power and to our knowledge hasn't been anywhere near a Fey since 3-5 so it maybe Magatamas may have a limted lifetime. It would explain why only Maya's magatama has power because if it was unlimited and if you consider that the Magatamas are probably passed on through the clan (has Phoenix still has Maya's and Maya still wears one, probably Mia's), all or most of them would of been actived by past Feys and still be active. A loss of power could result in inaccurate reading of secrets and locks or not showing them break when Phoenix gets something right or eventfully not work at all.
Kristoph had the unique advantage of being in touch with the powers connected to both the Feys and Gramaryes and has seen one of them in action in the form of Apollo. Being the paranoid person he is, while in jail he had the oppotunity to read and research on the Feys Channeling Technique, the nervous ticks that the Gramaryes rely on, Phoenix's previous cases and conversational body language.
Thus he would of probably known how Phoenix uses the Magatama. When he uses it, his language instantly changes, since he knows they're hiding something rather than suspecting they're hiding something and thus he resorts to passively demanding answers and blocks all rebuffs using evidence since knows more is needed because of Magatama. If someone were to notice this sudden change of language they could deny talk to at all thus rendering the locks unbreakable and the Magatama useless and without help from a Gramarye(which is how Apollo was the one to finally take him down), Phoenix would find it very hard to do it because he's been relying on the Magatama's powers for years. Though his poker skills may help some.
If the Magatama is losing it's power, it may give Capcom an excuse to reintoduce the Feys into the Apollo Arc in GS5.
Last edited by Kucan on Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Kucan wrote:
By the time Phoenix uses it on Kristoph it's been 9 and a half years since Pearl charged up with spirtual power and to our knowledge hasn't been anywhere near a Fey since 3-5 so it Magatamas may have a limted lifetime. It explain why only Maya's magatama has power because if it was unlimited and consider that the Magatamas are probably passed on through the clan, all or most of them would of been actived by past Feys still be ative. A loss of power could result in inaccurate reading of secrets and locks or not showing them break when Phoenix gets something right or eventfully not work at all.
Klavier had the unique advantage of being in touch with the powers connected to both the Feys and Gramaryes and has seen one of them in action in the form of Apollo. Being the paranoid person he is, while in jail he had the oppotunity to read and research on the Feys Channeling Technique, the nervous ticks that the Gramaryes rely on, Phoenix's previous cases and conversational body language.
Thus he would of probably known how Phoenix uses the Magatama. When he uses it, his language instantly changes, since he knows they're hiding something rather than suspecting they're hiding something and thus he resorts to passively demanding answers and blocks all rebuffs using evidence since knows more is needed because of Magatama. If someone were to notice this sudden change of language they could deny talk to at all thus rendering the locks unbreakable and the Magatama useless and without help from a Gramarye, Phoenix would find it very hard to do it because he's been relying on the Magatama's powers for years. Though his poker skills may help some.
If the Magatama is losing it's power, it may give Capcom an excuse to reintoduce the Feys into the Apollo Arc in GS5.
Klavier had the unique advantage of being in touch with the powers connected to both the Feys and Gramaryes and has seen one of them in action in the form of Apollo. Being the paranoid person he is, while in jail he had the oppotunity to read and research on the Feys Channeling Technique, the nervous ticks that the Gramaryes rely on, Phoenix's previous cases and conversational body language.
Thus he would of probably known how Phoenix uses the Magatama. When he uses it, his language instantly changes, since he knows they're hiding something rather than suspecting they're hiding something and thus he resorts to passively demanding answers and blocks all rebuffs using evidence since knows more is needed because of Magatama. If someone were to notice this sudden change of language they could deny talk to at all thus rendering the locks unbreakable and the Magatama useless and without help from a Gramarye, Phoenix would find it very hard to do it because he's been relying on the Magatama's powers for years. Though his poker skills may help some.
If the Magatama is losing it's power, it may give Capcom an excuse to reintoduce the Feys into the Apollo Arc in GS5.
Klavier?
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Probably because they're both Gavins and their names begin with 'K'
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Kucan wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
The Magatama could be losing it's power....but it didn't stop it being fully functional for all the other locks.
Besides the Magatama looks into the soul to see whats locked away? How can somebody defend against that?
I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama's power.
After all consider the act of breaking psych-locks.
You present evidence and imply that you already know what the reason is normally for the psych locks existance. The Magatama only lets you SEE the psych locks, take that away present the same evidence push the same points and your essentially doing the same thing just that you can't see the progress your making but if you read your opponent's reactions you can probably tell when you've got a lead.
If Phoenix considers a psych-lock somewhat unbreakable, I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama weakening. That said, Maya does mention something about powers needing a recharge, hence the waterfall treatment in 3-5.
Besides the Magatama looks into the soul to see whats locked away? How can somebody defend against that?
I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama's power.
After all consider the act of breaking psych-locks.
You present evidence and imply that you already know what the reason is normally for the psych locks existance. The Magatama only lets you SEE the psych locks, take that away present the same evidence push the same points and your essentially doing the same thing just that you can't see the progress your making but if you read your opponent's reactions you can probably tell when you've got a lead.
If Phoenix considers a psych-lock somewhat unbreakable, I wouldn't put it down to the Magatama weakening.
That said, Maya does mention something about powers needing a recharge, hence the waterfall treatment in 3-5.By the time Phoenix uses it on Kristoph it's been 9 and a half years since Pearl charged up with spirtual power and to our knowledge hasn't been anywhere near a Fey since 3-5 so it maybe Magatamas may have a limted lifetime. It would explain why only Maya's magatama has power because if it was unlimited and if you consider that the Magatamas are probably passed on through the clan (has Phoenix still has Maya's and Maya still wears one, probably Mia's), all or most of them would of been actived by past Feys and still be active. A loss of power could result in inaccurate reading of secrets and locks or not showing them break when Phoenix gets something right or eventfully not work at all.
Kristoph had the unique advantage of being in touch with the powers connected to both the Feys and Gramaryes and has seen one of them in action in the form of Apollo. Being the paranoid person he is, while in jail he had the oppotunity to read and research on the Feys Channeling Technique, the nervous ticks that the Gramaryes rely on, Phoenix's previous cases and conversational body language.
Thus he would of probably known how Phoenix uses the Magatama. When he uses it, his language instantly changes, since he knows they're hiding something rather than suspecting they're hiding something and thus he resorts to passively demanding answers and blocks all rebuffs using evidence since knows more is needed because of Magatama. If someone were to notice this sudden change of language they could deny talk to at all thus rendering the locks unbreakable and the Magatama useless and without help from a Gramarye(which is how Apollo was the one to finally take him down), Phoenix would find it very hard to do it because he's been relying on the Magatama's powers for years. Though his poker skills may help some.
If the Magatama is losing it's power, it may give Capcom an excuse to reintoduce the Feys into the Apollo Arc in GS5.
You contradict yourself by claiming that the Magatama is weak because he's never met a Fey to recharge it, yet you also claim through Phoenix Kristoph has met the Fey's and learned of their power in detail enough to work against it.
If Nick never met a Fey in that amount of time there's no way Kristoph would know about it and no way to defend against it.
Plus besides all this we've got no reason to really believe it'd run out of power or that he never got it recharged.
Also GOD FORBID the Fey's returning to the main storyline.
Also I used to mistake Kristoph and Klavier all the time
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Also GOD FORBID the Fey's returning to the main storyline.
That better have been sarcasm.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Kucan wrote:
By the time Phoenix uses it on Kristoph it's been 9 and a half years since Pearl charged up with spirtual power and to our knowledge hasn't been anywhere near a Fey since 3-5 so it maybe Magatamas may have a limted lifetime. It would explain why only Maya's magatama has power because if it was unlimited and if you consider that the Magatamas are probably passed on through the clan (has Phoenix still has Maya's and Maya still wears one, probably Mia's), all or most of them would of been actived by past Feys and still be active. A loss of power could result in inaccurate reading of secrets and locks or not showing them break when Phoenix gets something right or eventfully not work at all.
Kristoph had the unique advantage of being in touch with the powers connected to both the Feys and Gramaryes and has seen one of them in action in the form of Apollo. Being the paranoid person he is, while in jail he had the oppotunity to read and research on the Feys Channeling Technique, the nervous ticks that the Gramaryes rely on, Phoenix's previous cases and conversational body language.
Thus he would of probably known how Phoenix uses the Magatama. When he uses it, his language instantly changes, since he knows they're hiding something rather than suspecting they're hiding something and thus he resorts to passively demanding answers and blocks all rebuffs using evidence since knows more is needed because of Magatama. If someone were to notice this sudden change of language they could deny talk to at all thus rendering the locks unbreakable and the Magatama useless and without help from a Gramarye(which is how Apollo was the one to finally take him down), Phoenix would find it very hard to do it because he's been relying on the Magatama's powers for years. Though his poker skills may help some.
If the Magatama is losing it's power, it may give Capcom an excuse to reintoduce the Feys into the Apollo Arc in GS5.
You contradict yourself by claiming that the Magatama is weak because he's never met a Fey to recharge it, yet you also claim through Phoenix Kristoph has met the Fey's and learned of their power in detail enough to work against it.
If Nick never met a Fey in that amount of time there's no way Kristoph would know about it and no way to defend against it.
Plus besides all this we've got no reason to really believe it'd run out of power or that he never got it recharged.
Also GOD FORBID the Fey's returning to the main storyline.
Also I used to mistake Kristoph and Klavier all the time
Kristoph wouldn't need to actually meet them himself, he only needed to know that Phoenix worked with one. As a defense lawyer, there are several cases he would have access to research that feature the Feys that relied on assuming that their powers are actual fact. Also in the past the Feys were once famous so it isn't hard to believe that reading material exists on them. 6 months in jail would give him a lot of time to read. Plus he could of looked into it during the 7 years he was free.
The Magatama running out theory is admittingly unlikely though. It's just the type of thing Capcom would use to make an AJ Fey cameo case, the "Filler Case". Though I think the Gramaryes should be the "Fey" of the AJ arc.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Kucan wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
Kucan wrote:
By the time Phoenix uses it on Kristoph it's been 9 and a half years since Pearl charged up with spirtual power and to our knowledge hasn't been anywhere near a Fey since 3-5 so it maybe Magatamas may have a limted lifetime. It would explain why only Maya's magatama has power because if it was unlimited and if you consider that the Magatamas are probably passed on through the clan (has Phoenix still has Maya's and Maya still wears one, probably Mia's), all or most of them would of been actived by past Feys and still be active. A loss of power could result in inaccurate reading of secrets and locks or not showing them break when Phoenix gets something right or eventfully not work at all.
Kristoph had the unique advantage of being in touch with the powers connected to both the Feys and Gramaryes and has seen one of them in action in the form of Apollo. Being the paranoid person he is, while in jail he had the oppotunity to read and research on the Feys Channeling Technique, the nervous ticks that the Gramaryes rely on, Phoenix's previous cases and conversational body language.
Thus he would of probably known how Phoenix uses the Magatama. When he uses it, his language instantly changes, since he knows they're hiding something rather than suspecting they're hiding something and thus he resorts to passively demanding answers and blocks all rebuffs using evidence since knows more is needed because of Magatama. If someone were to notice this sudden change of language they could deny talk to at all thus rendering the locks unbreakable and the Magatama useless and without help from a Gramarye(which is how Apollo was the one to finally take him down), Phoenix would find it very hard to do it because he's been relying on the Magatama's powers for years. Though his poker skills may help some.
If the Magatama is losing it's power, it may give Capcom an excuse to reintoduce the Feys into the Apollo Arc in GS5.
You contradict yourself by claiming that the Magatama is weak because he's never met a Fey to recharge it, yet you also claim through Phoenix Kristoph has met the Fey's and learned of their power in detail enough to work against it.
If Nick never met a Fey in that amount of time there's no way Kristoph would know about it and no way to defend against it.
Plus besides all this we've got no reason to really believe it'd run out of power or that he never got it recharged.
Also GOD FORBID the Fey's returning to the main storyline.
Also I used to mistake Kristoph and Klavier all the time
Kristoph wouldn't need to actually meet them himself, he only needed to know that Phoenix worked with one. As a defense lawyer, there are several cases he would have access to research that feature the Feys that relied on assuming that their powers are actual fact. Also in the past the Feys were once famous so it isn't hard to believe that reading material exists on them. 6 months in jail would give him a lot of time to read. Plus he could of looked into it during the 7 years he was free.
The Magatama running out theory is admittingly unlikely though. It's just the type of thing Capcom would use to make an AJ Fey cameo case, the "Filler Case". Though I think the Gramaryes should be the "Fey" of the AJ arc.
The magatama seemed to be fine when it was used on Valant the 2nd time though. And that was after he used it on Kristoph.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Kucan wrote:
I think the Gramaryes should be the "Fey" of the AJ arc.
Does that mean that you want to defend Trucy during case 5-2?
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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BlackJack wrote:
Kucan wrote:
I think the Gramaryes should be the "Fey" of the AJ arc.
Does that mean that you want to defend Trucy during case 5-2?
Quite possibly..."Disappearing act goes wrong, volenteer finds magic fatal. End Quote" :shot: Course it also means Apollo may end up defending himself.
rydus65 wrote:
The magatama seemed to be fine when it was used on Valant the 2nd time though. And that was after he used it on Kristoph.
I always thought Phoenix encountered the black locks after Valant, after he gathered all the other infomation.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Still I cannot deny he may have researched a way into it but if such a way existed.....why didn't Mia use it?
One time Mia had psych locks I remember it surely being a member of the Fey clan she'd know how to protect herself.
Better yet, why wouldn't DAHLIA use it, since we've discussed her psych locks earlier, she's a fully fledged Fey girl trained under the evil if ambitious Morgana Fey. Plus surely Pearl would've warned Phoenix if there was a way around the Magatama when she gave it to him.
Point is there more informed people than Kristoph about the ways of the Fey clan, they would surely have employed the methods.
As for the timing of Valant and Kristoph....well....the whole Mason system screws up timing so I won't touch this.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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When Pearl give him the Magatama she probably didn't think that people would try that hard.
With Dahlia...
well, you got me there, she had no reason to not resist other than...thinking that Phoenix was too stupid to be able to do it because of his "Feenie" days?Kristoph probably only knows enough to stay quiet when Phoenix suddenly goes into full accusing mode, if you don't talk, the Magatama can't do much about it other than infuriate the user.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Kucan wrote:
When Mia had them she was trying to protect Pearl but knew Phoenix would need to know the truth in order to protect Maya, so she wasn't completely opposed to them breaking.
When Pearl give him the Magatama she probably didn't think that people would try that hard.
With Dahlia... well, you got me there, she had no reason to not resist other than...thinking that Phoenix was too stupid to be able to do it because of his "Feenie" days?
Kristoph probably only knows enough to stay quiet when Phoenix suddenly goes into full accusing mode, if you don't talk, the Magatama can't do much about it other than infuriate the user.
When Pearl give him the Magatama she probably didn't think that people would try that hard.
With Dahlia...
well, you got me there, she had no reason to not resist other than...thinking that Phoenix was too stupid to be able to do it because of his "Feenie" days?Kristoph probably only knows enough to stay quiet when Phoenix suddenly goes into full accusing mode, if you don't talk, the Magatama can't do much about it other than infuriate the user.
Pleeeeaaase
You think Kristoph would give Nick enough credit to Nick to not suffer Dahlia's weakness of thinking Nick is too stupid.
This is the man who commited murder after discovering that someone thought Nick was better than him.
Kristoph's ego is massive there's no way he'd take care out of fear that Nick could handle him.
That said Kristoph still takes incredible care in everything, except when he defended Nick.
But you'll note that Kristoph didn't stay quiet when Nick pulled out the Magatama....Nick didn't even try to break the Psych locks so if your arguing they are unbreakable because of some intense interrogation resistance he'd planned for then it's for naught. Nick assumed the locks were unbreakable in themselves without even breaking out the evidence and steely glares.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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Kucan wrote:
rydus65 wrote:
The magatama seemed to be fine when it was used on Valant the 2nd time though. And that was after he used it on Kristoph.
I always thought Phoenix encountered the black locks after Valant, after he gathered all the other infomation.
It had to be. Nick gave that pink envelope to Trucy at the beginning. And you talk to Valant about it.
Then when Nick visits Kristoph, Kris has the Yellow Letter, which was sent the night before Nick gave the Pink Envelope to Trucy. Unless, the PW world has an ungodly efficient postage system, there was no way he'd get it that fast.
Valant had to have come first.
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Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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BlackJack wrote:
Kucan wrote:
rydus65 wrote:
The magatama seemed to be fine when it was used on Valant the 2nd time though. And that was after he used it on Kristoph.
I always thought Phoenix encountered the black locks after Valant, after he gathered all the other infomation.
It had to be. Nick gave that pink envelope to Trucy at the beginning. And you talk to Valant about it.
Then when Nick visits Kristoph, Kris has the Yellow Letter, which was sent the night before Nick gave the Pink Envelope to Trucy. Unless, the PW world has an ungodly efficient postage system, there was no way he'd get it that fast.
Valant had to have come first.
I suppose that could be the case. But then why did Kristoph's scenario come before Valant's. I always assume the scenarios happened in the order that they appeared.
But like other's said, the Mason system timing is unreliable. Assuming that Valant's did happen before Kristoph though, the time difference was only a couple of days apart. It's doubtful the magatama would go from working to not working in a couple of days. But then again, no one knows how the magatama works or how it operates.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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BlackJack wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
Also GOD FORBID the Fey's returning to the main storyline.
That better have been sarcasm.
Trust me. They won't appear.
Moo.
Re: The Black Psyche-Locks "SPOILER OF COURSE"
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BlackJack wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
Also GOD FORBID the Fey's returning to the main storyline.
That better have been sarcasm.
If the Fey's return it may herald the death of Apollo Justice.
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