Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
The Police could have been investigating his "Works" and Krisoph found the file on him...
But unless he watched them, he wouldn't have known Vera was the true arist.
My point was that the file would have his address... See what i'm trying to get at now?
I figured that Kris had just gone into the black market (family guy-style! :D) and gotten Drew's address...but police files work just as well.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
My point was that the file would have his address... See what i'm trying to get at now?
I figured that Kris had just gone into the black market (family guy-style! :D) and gotten Drew's address...but police files work just as well.
Yeah. And there's less chance of a "KILL THE LAW-DUDE!" occuring.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Quote:
Except it wouldn't. Vera would only die if she wears the nail polish, and she would only wear the nail polish if she went outside.
Well, there could have been something very important happenning and she would have had to go outside and be nervous ... like a murder in the neighbouhood or something.
This suggestion, and the other oddities of the lost stamp (a wind blow and bye-bye, little stamp !
), the broken glass or Drew using nail polis and ... say, licking a finger cut ... were just exemples of what could go wrong. There were unlikely hypothesis, but still possible hypothesis.All that to say, by introducing more and more incontrolable elements in his plan, Kriss was increasing exponentially the risks of being discovered.
He was very lucky that nothing really important happened without being immediately put right by another lucky event. All the little flaws, that were not decisive, however, were all quite dangerous even without the Jury system, I think.
Heck, Phoenix could have done another false decisive evidence, who knows ?
About the other facts ... it's been a long time since I played this game (shame on me !
) so there's still some holes in my memories.[Note to self : Never start a forum by posting in places which needs deep knowledge of the subject ...]
But
Quote:
And I've always viewed the light pink color as a result of the poison being added.
Isn't atroquinin incolor ?
It could always come from some weird chemical reaction but ... that would be really-really weird.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Miacis wrote:
Quote:
Except it wouldn't. Vera would only die if she wears the nail polish, and she would only wear the nail polish if she went outside.
Well, there could have been something very important happenning and she would have had to go outside and be nervous ... like a murder in the neighbouhood or something.
Okay, so Vera dies. How does that mean Kristoph gets convicted?
Quote:
This suggestion, and the other oddities of the lost stamp (a wind blow and bye-bye, little stamp ! ),
),I don't see any windows in Drew Studio.
Quote:
the broken glass or Drew using nail polis and ... say, licking a finger cut ...
Drew would not use the nail polish. Vera won't even let him touch it.
Quote:
were just exemples of what could go wrong. There were unlikely hypothesis, but still possible hypothesis.
All that to say, by introducing more and more incontrolable elements in his plan, Kriss was increasing exponentially the risks of being discovered.
All that to say, by introducing more and more incontrolable elements in his plan, Kriss was increasing exponentially the risks of being discovered.
Why should you walk outside when you can slip on something, crack your head open, and die? When you take into account "unlikely hypothesis", everything suddenly becomes horrible dangerous.
Quote:
He was very lucky that nothing really important happened without being immediately put right by another lucky event. All the little flaws, that were not decisive, however, were all quite dangerous even without the Jury system, I think.
There were 2 decisive flaws, actually... handling the nail polish bottle and stuff with uncovered hands (although the police might not have necessarily found it) and the bank transfer. Highly unlikely events, like another murder in the neighborhood, and really unlikely and doesn't necessarily need to be considered.
Quote:
Heck, Phoenix could have done another false decisive evidence, who knows ?
Well, Phoenix wouldn't have been a lawyer, and I don't think he would've done it....
I mean, yeah, he did it in 4-1, but he was sure it was Kristoph; depending how on Vera and/or Drew died, Phoenix might not necessarily have known it was Kristoph for sure.About the other facts ... it's been a long time since I played this game (shame on me !
) so there's still some holes in my memories.[Note to self : Never start a forum by posting in places which needs deep knowledge of the subject ...]
But
Quote:
And I've always viewed the light pink color as a result of the poison being added.
Isn't atroquinin incolor ?
It could always come from some weird chemical reaction but ... that would be really-really weird.[/quote]
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Quote:
Okay, so Vera dies. How does that mean Kristoph gets convicted?
I was just responding to :
Quote:
Except it wouldn't. Vera would only die if she wears the nail polish, and she would only wear the nail polish if she went outside. (I don't think this was explicitly stated in the game, but I think it's safe to assume, considering she still had some after 7 years!) Thus Drew would die first.
Quote:
I don't see any windows in Drew Studio.
Oh, please ... you know what I mean ... Anything could happens to a little stamp. A vaccum cleaner, a paint stain that renders it useless, humidity, fire ...
Quote:
Why should you walk outside when you can slip on something, crack your head open, and die? When you take into account "unlikely hypothesis", everything suddenly becomes horrible dangerous.
Well, when they are lots of unlikely hypothesis, it becomes more dangerous.
It unlikely that you will slip on a single banana peel. But if there's the peel, a hundred little marbles, a streetlight and a manhole ... that's becoming pretty dangerous.
By the way, something I don't understand ... he was "watchnig them" (as well as Phoenix & co), didn't he ? I believe he didn't watch all of them personnally (that would be really time-consuming and would mean they could be unwatched per moments) ... were there other persons involved ? Did they get a time bomb too ? They might have testified against him.
Well, anyway, we're not much on contradictions, are we ? Discussing Kris's plan and how unneccessarly complex it was.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Miacis wrote:
Well, when they are lots of unlikely hypothesis, it becomes more dangerous.
It unlikely that you will slip on a single banana peel. But if there's the peel, a hundred little marbles, a streetlight and a manhole ... that's becoming pretty dangerous.
It unlikely that you will slip on a single banana peel. But if there's the peel, a hundred little marbles, a streetlight and a manhole ... that's becoming pretty dangerous.
No that's not! That's "Charlie Chaplin Sketch Number 4"!!!
Miacis wrote:
By the way, something I don't understand ... he was "watchnig them" (as well as Phoenix & co), didn't he ? I believe he didn't watch all of them personnally (that would be really time-consuming and would mean they could be unwatched per moments) ... were there other persons involved ? Did they get a time bomb too ? They might have testified against him.
You overassume at the end. He was watching 3 "Persons": Phoenix, Spark, and The Mishams (Who I count as one since they were always together). No one else was involved in the forged evidence. This is proven during Valant's Testimony, where we learn how each piece of evidence was used. If there was ANY evidence that didn't get explained, then be sure to tell the rest of the forum for discussion!
Anyways, Drew and Vera recieved Time Bombs. He watched them to make sure they didn't do anything "Sensible" like call the police out of guilt. There's a pretty good chance that he ALSO watched Spark Brushel, in order to look for Zak... I believe he could've just as easily placed a bug in Brushel's home, and for those of you who NEVER watched a James Bond movie, or a CSI/NCIS/Bones episode, OR played JFA case 4, a bug is a very small listening device. He could have always hidden it somewhere in Brushel's home... heck, he could have hidden it ON Brushel for all we know!... I doubt it, but we don't exactly KNOW regardless...
Phoenix... I'll be honest. I don't think he watched Phoenix all that much... Phoenix couldn't do anything, even if he wanted to. He was only able to go to the police or media, but with his "Track Record" of forging evidence, they might think he was trying to "push the blame" onto someone else... However, I DO believe he was watching Phoenix still... He could have placed a bug on him as well... say......... on his hat?
Well, that's all I have to s.......... actually, one last thing:
I stated this many times before but... why didn't he try planning Brushel's death!? Brushel worked for the MEDIA! I would've thought he would be the most important person to take out, personally...
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
Phoenix... I'll be honest. I don't think he watched Phoenix all that much... Phoenix couldn't do anything, even if he wanted to. He was only able to go to the police or media, but with his "Track Record" of forging evidence, they might think he was trying to "push the blame" onto someone else... However, I DO believe he was watching Phoenix still... He could have placed a bug on him as well... say......... on his hat?
I doubt he was watching Phoenix at all.... He had no idea about the Jurist System, remember? Considering that was basically all Phoenix did those 7 years, he probably would've found out....
Quote:
I stated this many times before but... why didn't he try planning Brushel's death!? Brushel worked for the MEDIA! I would've thought he would be the most important person to take out, personally...
Because Brushel didn't know anything. He watched the Mishams because they were the forgers, so obviously they knew all about it. He had to have at least kept tabs on Phoenix because the forged evidence effected Phoenix's life for the next 7 years, so Phoenix would obviously try figure it out. And Zak had the real diary page. Since Zak had disappeared Kristoph couldn't watch him, but he could watch the next best thing: Spark, because Kristoph knew that if he contacted anyone, it would be Spark.
and YES, I did mean to say "effected", not "affected"!
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
I doubt he was watching Phoenix at all.... He had no idea about the Jurist System, remember? Considering that was basically all Phoenix did those 7 years, he probably would've found out....
But he WAS watching Phoenix - they were pretending to be best buddies those 7 years, and had dinner together all the time. He probably felt he didn't need to do any actual spying because they saw each other so often anyway. Phoenix may have used this to his advantage when investigating the Jurist system behind Kristoph's back.
When it comes to Kristoph's plan, I think it's a bit more solid than people give him credit for. He placed the stamp specifically asking that it be used to return his receipt, so it's not like it was meant to be hanging around the Misham's place waiting for an open window or a vacuum cleaner to endanger it. He just underestimated Vera's attachment to the Gramaryes. If it had been a normal stamp, chances are she would have put it directly onto the envelope she was supposed to and then died. And without Vera, even if Drew tried to tell the police who had done it, he wouldn't have been able to: he didn't have Kristoph's real name or even knew what he looked like.
It beats the pants off some crazy murder methods we've seen in earlier cases, at least XD
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Croik wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
I doubt he was watching Phoenix at all.... He had no idea about the Jurist System, remember? Considering that was basically all Phoenix did those 7 years, he probably would've found out....
But he WAS watching Phoenix - they were pretending to be best buddies those 7 years, and had dinner together all the time. He probably felt he didn't need to do any actual spying because they saw each other so often anyway. Phoenix may have used this to his advantage when investigating the Jurist system behind Kristoph's back.
When I said watching, I meant spying xD
Quote:
And without Vera, even if Drew tried to tell the police who had done it, he wouldn't have been able to: he didn't have Kristoph's real name or even knew what he looked like.
Then how did Kristoph remind Klavier of the client?
Marshmello wrote:
Wouldn't it have been Drew who Kristoph intended to die-by-stamp, though? Vera may have been the forger, but it was Drew who was taking care of everything, and he would have been the one recieving the money, thus assumably the one who would be sending the letter. Vera was just doing what she was told; if it hadn't been a commemorative stamp she would have had no reason to touch it. What ultimately ended up happening is what Kristoph intended, albeit 7 years late.
Yep. The stamp was for Drew, and the nail polish for Vera.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler: Game 1 Case 4
Spoiler: Game 4
Whatever.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Some people call this a forum, others call it a message board. A few even call it an addiction. I, personally, call it Steve.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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, why didn't they find Lamroir's? 
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
If they found Machi's prints in the air vent , why didn't they find Lamroir's?
, why didn't they find Lamroir's? Why would they? Machi climbed up the ladder and opened the air vent... Lamiroir didn't... Besides, her fingerprints would've been in the air DUCT, not the vent.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I haven't played the game in a while, so i can't remember if this actually happens, but...
Spoiler:
takes a camerea into court and know one says anything about it.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Mokuba, in 'Yu-Gi-Oh!: The Abridged Movie' wrote:
Oh...I hate continuity!
The rules in court probably just changed
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Phoenix says in the credits that he might take the bar exam again. Why should this be nessecary? After Apollo proves that he shouldn't have been disbarred in the first place, he should be able to return to law straight away.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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dapz wrote:
Case 4, contradiction of logic:
Phoenix says in the credits that he might take the bar exam again. Why should this be nessecary? After Apollo proves that he shouldn't have been disbarred in the first place, he should be able to return to law straight away.
Phoenix says in the credits that he might take the bar exam again. Why should this be nessecary? After Apollo proves that he shouldn't have been disbarred in the first place, he should be able to return to law straight away.
How is it illogical!? He was DISBARRED! He can only be granted permission to become a lawyer again, not to BE GIVEN his badge back.
It's not a contradiction of logic as much as it is a way Law works... Phoenix would be given the offer to study law again, and he can choose to accept or refuse it.
After all, earlier he says "I haven't forgotten... everything about the law". This implies that he has forgotten SOME things about it. Naturally, he can't be a lawyer if he can't even remember the rules of law!
And how will he learn then? By studying and passing the bar exam.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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jonathanrp wrote:
In the first case, Payne states that he first saw Phoenix coming into the courtroom, and that he plans to see him leaving in chains, but in GS3, Mia defends Phoenix against Payne in the tutorial. Maybe Payne forgot, or when his hair flew off, his memory flew out too? Just wondering.
2 things... One, Nice Trap you set up there... You didn't add all the information to your "Contradiction", so if someone attacks it without full knowledge of the actual conditions, they can be made to look quite the fool.
Here are Payne's actual lines:
"To think, I saw you enter this room a fresh attorney, and now I'll see you leave in chains."
If you don't count the "A fresh attorney" part, then your contradiction doesn't exist, since he obviously could've meant...
Spoiler: T&T
But WITH the line, it looks more like he simply forgot... Lets be honest, he could have just blocked that memory out, eh?
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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AS IS BEING A SELF-RIGHTEOUS SHOW-STEALING PRICK FOR A WHOLE GAME.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
If they found Machi's prints in the air vent , why didn't they find Lamroir's?
, why didn't they find Lamroir's? Why would they? Machi climbed up the ladder and opened the air vent... Lamiroir didn't... Besides, her fingerprints would've been in the air DUCT, not the vent.
well, you'd think the police would be a little more thorough with their investigation, wouldn't you? if they looked in the area where they found machi's prints, lamroir's wouldn't be far off!
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
If they found Machi's prints in the air vent , why didn't they find Lamroir's?
, why didn't they find Lamroir's? Why would they? Machi climbed up the ladder and opened the air vent... Lamiroir didn't... Besides, her fingerprints would've been in the air DUCT, not the vent.
well, you'd think the police would be a little more thorough with their investigation, wouldn't you? if they looked in the area where they found machi's prints, lamroir's wouldn't be far off!
Sure they would! They dusted the air vent opening to see who left through that opening... and that's all they had to dust! "Who left the room through the air vent?" was the only thing that they needed to find out... And luckily for them, Machi left his prints on it... that's the only thing they had to determine. It's not "Who used the air duct", it was simply "Who opened the air vent to escape?".
The police did exactly what they were supposed to do... They had no reason to check the whole vent, or even a part of the vent... just the opening.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
"To think, I saw you enter this room a fresh attorney, and now I'll see you leave in chains."
How is that a contradiction? Payne saw Phoenix enter the courtroom for the first time (as the accused) and also was there for Phoenix's first case as a lawyer. He doesn't say "the first time I saw you it was as an attorney." He's just saying "I saw you try your first case," which he did.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Croik wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
"To think, I saw you enter this room a fresh attorney, and now I'll see you leave in chains."
How is that a contradiction? Payne saw Phoenix enter the courtroom for the first time (as the accused) and also was there for Phoenix's first case as a lawyer. He doesn't say "the first time I saw you it was as an attorney." He's just saying "I saw you try your first case," which he did.
Wrestlemania wrote:
If you don't count the "A fresh attorney" part, then your contradiction doesn't exist, since he obviously could've meant...
Spoiler: T&T
Wow, Crowe (Name for the character based off of you I made was "Kimberly Crowe". Anyways...), you seem more desperate to catch me on something than I am to debate someone catching me on something!
Nah, but seriously, my claim was that there was no contradiction... But thanks for backing me up! Here's a cookie.
... Mondo-Cookies are being baked right now.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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jonathanrp wrote:
I replay each one for a month, then go to the next one, and I am curently on JFA. I have no life i no lol
don't worry, this is a forum. on a FANSITE. i can pretty much guarantee you're not the only one in this position.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I was wondering why Kristoph didn't spy on Valant. I know that Valant and Zak weren't the best of friends, but If Kristoph was watching Spark, Drew, and Phoenix he would watch Valant as well. Just wondering.
I also wonder if Kristoph could deny letting Apollo be Phoenix's attorney? I was just wondering.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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That last question is an interesting one. I don't know any of the rules surrounding what requests you can make of an attorney, or if they would even apply in the AA-verse. I'm guessing it would depend on whether Phoenix hired the Gavin office or Gavin himself. If he went through the office, I'd assume that he could choose any attorney working there without being turned down. If he hired Kristoph personally, it would probably be more courtesy than anything else that let him choose to be defended by Apollo.
As for the "Daryan doesn't need money" thing, it isn't a contradiction. People are greedy. Daryan didn't have to need money to want more of it.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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jonathanrp wrote:
Also, wouldn't Klavier get hurt from hit gutiar being set on fire when he was playing it?
I know this is completely random and off topic from the earlier contradiction, but I was wondering
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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rydus65 wrote:
I also wonder if Kristoph could deny letting Apollo be Phoenix's attorney? I was just wondering.
Kristoph knew Phoenix suspected him. He probably didn't want to appear any more suspicious, and he probably didn't think anything would come of it because (A) Olga Orly was the perfect scapegoat (B) He was there as an aide, so he could prevent his conviction (or so he thought)
@jonathanrp: Not if he took it off quickly enough. Also, you're not. I've triple-posted before. And quadruple-posted before. In the same day.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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jonathanrp wrote:
wow.... I must be the first person alive who managed to accidentally triple post. Sorry XD
*hands them a Ginger Ale*
Nah, I did that a whiiiiiiiiile back... I think it was on the old Tails' Topic.
Anyways, I don't think Kristoph knew that Phoenix suspected anything until the case was brought to court. This is evident by the fact that Kristoph was IN court, instead of making up an excuse and leaving.
Also, a Defense Attorney cannot take over another Defense Attorney's case, unless permission to do so is granted by the Defense Attorney themselves, or unless the client requests the active attorney resigns from their position as their attorney.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
jonathanrp wrote:
Anyways, I don't think Kristoph knew that Phoenix suspected anything until the case was brought to court. This is evident by the fact that Kristoph was IN court, instead of making up an excuse and leaving.
But Kristoph said something like, "Our friendship has never been pure and you've always suspected me" in the MASON System.
Don't worry, I'll play devil's advocate so you don't have to
He could've been unaware of it all those years, and then realized that it had been unpure all those years when Phoenix got him convicted.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
jonathanrp wrote:
Anyways, I don't think Kristoph knew that Phoenix suspected anything until the case was brought to court. This is evident by the fact that Kristoph was IN court, instead of making up an excuse and leaving.
He could've been unaware of it all those years, and then realized that it had been unpure all those years when Phoenix got him convicted.
Or he could have just said those lines because he wanted to
I just remembered to ask this: In the fourth case, why did they never attempt a Handwriting Analysis on the letter in the red envelope? I mean, that would've proved Kristoph did it, after all... AND we know that handwriting analysis is still used then (Ema does an "Analysis" of Alita Tiala's "Defense Request Form" in 4-2...)...
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
I just remembered to ask this: In the fourth case, why did they never attempt a Handwriting Analysis on the letter in the red envelope? I mean, that would've proved Kristoph did it, after all... AND we know that handwriting analysis is still used then (Ema does an "Analysis" of Alita Tiala's "Defense Request Form" in 4-2...)...
IIRC Ema doesn't specifically say that she used handwriting analysis on Alita's letter (but even so, handwriting analysis is a highly useful science which will likely never become obsolete). Consider that Kristoph could have typed the letter, which would be the easiest way to avoid suspicion should a useful, logical technique be used to confirm the identity of the sender.
But in the AA-verse the police department tends to fail to use a lot of the useful, logical techniques available to solve a case, so Kristoph really wouldn't have much to worry about...
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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jonathanrp wrote:
Also with the whole red envolope thing, how did they scan one page at a time from an unopened envolope? That must be some amazing technology they had XD
Not really a contradiction, ese... they explain what the X-Ray Analyzer does, and how it does it, so as long as you paid attention to the process, you should understand how it was done, easily.
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