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Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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But what I recognized is... How to say it, I know it's crazy, because the same person wrote all 4 games, but for some reason I feel that the creators of AJ didn't like TaT, or at least they weren't proud of it.
Lol, this might explain why wasn't TaT released in Europe until now.
So where is my evidence, you ask?
Here is it:
- First of all, while there are numerous references to AA1, and a few to JFA, there is absolutely nothing related to TaT in AJ. Would it be a stretch to say that AJ would be the same if TaT never happened? Not at all.
- AJ takes place too close to TaT. Hell, only 2 months. Again nothing, NOTHING stopped them from placing AJ 6 months or a year after TaT to give him (and Maya) time to be happy. But no, they had to do it, and it does mess up TaT's ending. Mia said that Phoenix doesn't need any more help from her... well, it's not really Phoenix's fault, and Mia and Godot (and Edgey) didn't deserve what they got either, but still, I find it unfair...
- Not really a direct evidence, but an interesting finding. It's commonly known that of the 4 games, TaT is the most "epic", "unrealistic" and "romantic-idealistic". You know what I mean, "pure innocence vs pure evil" concepts, being the most over-the-top game and so on. On the other hand, AJ is the most realistic of all 4 games, with all of the defendants being guilty (except for Phoenix) in something.
- A lot of music returned from AA1. From JFA, the only one I recall is "Eccentric" (other than the main tunes like Suspense or Psyche-lock), but nothing from TaT.
I'm not saying that the creators wanted to make TaT non-existent, because AJ doesn't contradict it, but it's completely obvious that their favorite game of the PW trilogy was the first (by far), and their least favorite is TaT.
Any thoughts on this?
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Szabu wrote:
No, it's not a "which game is better" topic. Case 3-5 alone is better than the entire AJ game anyway, so it's obvious.
First of all, this is only your opinion. I don't think there's anything "obvious" about it. In fact, my personal opinion is the exact opposite.
And there are references to T&T in AJ:
Spoiler:
The reason there are more references to the first game (and Rise From the Ashes in particular) is because the team working on AJ was mostly comprised of people who joined the project when it moved to DS. They were the ones that created case 5, which is probably why it comes up more often than any mention of JFA or T&T.
Quote:
AJ takes place too close to TaT. Hell, only 2 months. Again nothing, NOTHING stopped them from placing AJ 6 months or a year after TaT to give him (and Maya) time to be happy.
I think it makes even more sense that it happened so close. Two months after T&T, Maya would probably still be super busy with her job of taking over the Master's position, which would explain why she didn't show up in the flashbacks. Who could have predicted that Phoenix would run into trouble so quickly? If it had been 6 months later, you would assume that Maya would have settled into her job and would have more time to visit. The timing actually works in the story's favor.
As for the music, I think it makes even more sense because T&T had several very obvious and specific character themes. It makes more sense for AJ to draw on less specific pieces like the Psyche Lock music. But I can't imagine them using the character themes for anyone other than the characters they were made for.
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Quote:
First of all, this is only your opinion. I don't think there's anything "obvious" about it. In fact, my personal opinion is the exact opposite.
That's why I said that this topic isn't supposed to be about discussing this :)
The coffee-poisoning thing, I know that, but isn't it too indirect? Anyway, about the Larry painting outfit, I've got to agree. I didn't know it until now.
Quote:
I think it makes even more sense that it happened so close. Two months after T&T, Maya would probably still be super busy with her job of taking over the Master's position, which would explain why she didn't show up in the flashbacks. Who could have predicted that Phoenix would run into trouble so quickly?
Funny, it's exactly what I based my fanfic on. I think I also have to agree about this one. It's like Mia dying, Godot going to prison, Edgey being haunted by nightmares, Maya's mom dying, etc. Maybe Phoenix shouldn't be left out? :D
About the music, yeah, TaT's trial music is too "epic" and "over-the-top" to fit AJ all that well, but TaT is closer to the flashback trials which used AA1's music.
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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But you agreed with all my points anyway so does that mean there's nothing left to discuss?
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Szabu wrote:
- A lot of music returned from AA1. From JFA, the only one I recall is "Eccentric" (other than the main tunes like Suspense or Psyche-lock), but nothing from TaT.
AA music was only used during the flashback trial annd once during 4-1 (at least if I remember correctly.) It's not like they put it in the parts where Apollo was doing stuff, just in the flashback trial with Phoenix. Why they chose the AA music and not the JFA music and T&T music, I don't know, but it's not like they just randomly placed the AA music throughout the game.
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Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Yeah, it was a little joke :P
Maybe I should have added a smily or something.
Well, yeah, it's always like this. I come up with something, then someone comes and just disproves almost everything I said. At least it makes me (and others) think and probably understand the story more, and improve the debate skills or whatever :)
So, yeah, pretty much nothing else to discuss for now.
But I really want to see some TaT-style fanservice in AJ2. (but this is offtopic too I guess).
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Bad Player wrote:
Szabu wrote:
- A lot of music returned from AA1. From JFA, the only one I recall is "Eccentric" (other than the main tunes like Suspense or Psyche-lock), but nothing from TaT.
AA music was only used during the flashback trial annd once during 4-1 (at least if I remember correctly.) It's not like they put it in the parts where Apollo was doing stuff, just in the flashback trial with Phoenix. Why they chose the AA music and not the JFA music and T&T music, I don't know, but it's not like they just randomly placed the AA music throughout the game.
Maybe in GS5 when we play as Phoenix (i hope we do play one case and maybe a half, see my GS5 ideas) we will hear JFA music?
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Croik wrote:
And there are references to T&T in AJ:
Spoiler:
Huh, didn't know about the second thing there.
I honestly think they might've not been pleased with it. Of course, that could just be me still being bitter about T&T's delay for its EU release.
It's just that they delayed it, and essentially said it wasn't coming to the EU and all of the jazz about T&T's arrival in Europe. It seems like they were trying to hide it or something to me.
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Szabu wrote:
- AJ takes place too close to TaT. Hell, only 2 months. Again nothing, NOTHING stopped them from placing AJ 6 months or a year after TaT to give him (and Maya) time to be happy. But no, they had to do it, and it does mess up TaT's ending.
2 months? Doesn't AJ take place 7 years after the end of T&T (except for the mini-case in 4-4)?
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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By the way, I'm really curious now how much the creators like the 4 games. Even amongst my own short stories, I like some more than others, so probably they have an order too.
For some reason I think it's 1 > 4 > 2 > 3, but I don't have many reasons to think this.
First of all, PW1 and AJ got more publicity (especially in English) than the other 2. More official art, too. In the GS artbooks where they have the "sprite style" official art, characters of case 2-3 and GS3 get lett artwork than others (while not having less sprites in general).
Their fav is most probably the first one, especially after they added case 1-5. JFA (while I like it more than the first) got worse reviews than AA1, so it's probable that the creators prefer AA1, too.
On the TGS promotional videos they also use only AA1's (and one of AJ's) music.
However, for some reason, in the English trailers they used PW3's music for all 3 games, so who knows.
We should ask it in an interview later: "Which of the AA games are your fav, 2nd fav, 3rd fav and least fav?"
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Szabu wrote:
However, for some reason, in the English trailers they used PW3's music for all 3 games, so who knows?
Didn't they only use a Cornered remake? (which, IMHO, was worst than the great original)
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Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Szabu wrote:
First of all, PW1 and AJ got more publicity (especially in English) than the other 2. More official art, too. In the GS artbooks where they have the "sprite style" official art, characters of case 2-3 and GS3 get lett artwork than others (while not having less sprites in general).
Well, in GS1 they have official artwork of main, recurring characters, like Phoenix, Maya, Larry, the Judge, Edgy, etc. In GS2 they only have Pearl (Adrian and Maggey are just minor characters) and they have no new recurring people in GS3. For the same reason, AJ has more official art because it is the first to have recurring characters.
Szabu wrote:
Their fav is most probably the first one, especially after they added case 1-5. JFA (while I like it more than the first) got worse reviews than AA1, so it's probable that the creators prefer AA1, too.
RftA was done mostly by the same team as AJ. I think they simply added that case as a test run for the new 3D rendering and science mini-games, and to help boost the sale of it on the DS (since otherwise it would just be a port and probably not as successful). Don't know why they didn't do it for JFA--perhaps they were busy with AJ--but 'cause of AJ they couldn't do it with T&T (it would interfere with the flashback trial).
And critics' reviews of a game =/= the creator's views.
Quote:
On the TGS promotional videos they also use only AA1's (and one of AJ's) music.
However, for some reason, in the English trailers they used PW3's music for all 3 games, so who knows.
However, for some reason, in the English trailers they used PW3's music for all 3 games, so who knows.
Nothing to add. As you said, "who knows"?
Quote:
We should ask it in an interview later: "Which of the AA games are your fav, 2nd fav, 3rd fav and least fav?"
That we should.
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Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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DramaticaXIV2 wrote:
Szabu wrote:
However, for some reason, in the English trailers they used PW3's music for all 3 games, so who knows?
Didn't they only use a Cornered remake? (which, IMHO, was worst than the great original)
What? The Cornered 2004 Rock Remix was AWESOME. =\ It was better than the original.
(And, for some reason, I do like Examination 2004 GBA better than the DS version.)
As for this topic, I'm not really sure. But shouldn't creators not really discriminate over the game that the company makes? If they dislike the game but their fans love it, what do you think they would choose? Themselves or their fanbase?
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Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Of course, as far as I know, most people say that TaT is the best in the series. Correct me if it's wrong.
I don't know about Japanese people, but I tend to think that in general, their favorite is TaT also, it's more "Japanese-style" in story directions and humor than any other Ace Attorney game so far.
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Szabu wrote:
First of all, while there are numerous references to AA1, and a few to JFA, there is absolutely nothing related to TaT in AJ.
Doesn't Stickler go to Ivy University.......the same Ivy University that was mentioned in 3-1...whose students include Dahlia, Doug Swallow and Phoenix.
Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Szabu wrote:
I'm not saying that the creators wanted to make TaT non-existent, because AJ doesn't contradict it, but it's completely obvious that their favorite game of the PW trilogy was the first (by far), and their least favorite is TaT.
Any thoughts on this?
Any thoughts on this?
The writer's favourite 'game' is 1-5, because they made 1-5 kind of like a pilot. (And it was better than AA4, I think personally, but anyway..).
So the backstory of GS4 is Black Box where Phoenix is a lawyer - 1-5 - Black box where Phoenix is a lawyer. Any mentions of cases or characters from anything but 1-5 are just Easter eggs with no actual relevance to the plot or characters.
The delays with release of game 3 in Europe etc smacks of 'we retconned PW3 for game 4' but I think it's just coincidence. Game 2 is as irrelevant to them as game 3 was really. Even Hotti gets a different name since he's kind of an 'easter egg'.
Game 1 music returns for the nostalgia factor in Phoenix's uprising in 4-1- and they couldn't just make Phoenix's Magatama disappear now, could they,
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Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Xero Wright wrote:
(And, for some reason, I do like Examination 2004 GBA better than the DS version.)
By original, I meant DS, sorry...
Don't get me started in this topic with EU T&T release date...
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Re: Apollo Justice vs. Trials and Tribations
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Szabu wrote:
Maybe in GS5 when we play as Phoenix (i hope we do play one case and maybe a half, see my GS5 ideas) we will hear JFA music?
Jesus christ, I hope not. I'm already irritated that Nick overshadowed Apollo in AJ1 but if it happens again in GS5, I think I'm gonna flip my shit.
fuck
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