Wright V.S. Gavin
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as there come a next Phoenix Wright V.S. Klavier Gavin trail, who win this time?
what do you think???
(there's no forging evidence, no brother that help's gavin, only this two(
)and REAL evidence)
always remeber 2 things.
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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But of course, I would say that.
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
tell me if you know a better one.
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always remeber 2 things.
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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If the culprit is Phoenix's client, Klavier wins before the trial is even started.
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
tell me if you know a better one.
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always remeber 2 things.
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Quote:
but you have to say that gavin is really good to
Yeah, no.
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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*poke*Phoenix would definitely win. ^^ But then again, of course, it really depends on who the real culprit is. Klavier and Phoenix are both driven by truth, so there's no real "winner" other than in the formal sense. Same as with Edgeworth and Phoenix. (Okay, so Edgeworth typically loses...whatever.
)
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Amethyst wrote:
Phoenix had the magatama at that point, too... *poke*
*poke*Except Phoenix never did an investigation into the whole affair... so he didn't get to use it.
Anyway, judging by the flashback case, I'd say Phoenix (as Klavier was getting his arse kicked before the diary was presented, and he doesn't to be any better against Herr Forehead).
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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phoenixwrightmaster wrote:
but you have to say that gavin is really good to
Erm, no.
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Gavin has... a really cool older brother.
Ergo, Phoenix has more stuff to help him win than Gavin, so he wins.
Clear enough?
"Blood Elf logic is flawless. Just don't get me started on my hair."
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Lighthaven wrote:
Let's see... Phoenix has the Magatama, connections to the spirit world, really good luck, and experience...
Gavin has... a really cool older brother.
Ergo, Phoenix has more stuff to help him win than Gavin, so he wins.
Clear enough?
Gavin has... a really cool older brother.
Ergo, Phoenix has more stuff to help him win than Gavin, so he wins.
Clear enough?
Phoenix was a lawyer for 3 years before being disbarred, Klavier for 7. I think Klav at least wins out in experience. The rest of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with Phoenix's skill but rather his connections. If the police had a magical lie detector then they might never arrest another innocent person and then where would Phoenix's career be?
Ultimately I think the winner would still be Phoenix if only because I don't think Capcom would ever put him in the position to lose against Klavier again. It wouldn't suit any purpose in the story. And even if for some reason they do end up against each other, you'd probably be playing as Phoenix, in which case you would still win, because that's just how the games work. From a gameplay point of view it would be a mistake too.
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Croik wrote:
Lighthaven wrote:
Let's see... Phoenix has the Magatama, connections to the spirit world, really good luck, and experience...
Gavin has... a really cool older brother.
Ergo, Phoenix has more stuff to help him win than Gavin, so he wins.
Clear enough?
Gavin has... a really cool older brother.
Ergo, Phoenix has more stuff to help him win than Gavin, so he wins.
Clear enough?
Phoenix was a lawyer for 3 years before being disbarred, Klavier for 7. I think Klav at least wins out in experience. The rest of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with Phoenix's skill but rather his connections. If the police had a magical lie detector then they might never arrest another innocent person and then where would Phoenix's career be?
Ultimately I think the winner would still be Phoenix if only because I don't think Capcom would ever put him in the position to lose against Klavier again. It wouldn't suit any purpose in the story. And even if for some reason they do end up against each other, you'd probably be playing as Phoenix, in which case you would still win, because that's just how the games work. From a gameplay point of view it would be a mistake too.
But sadly, they don't, so Phoenix still has an edge there. I never said anything about his skill (in fact I believe that he has very little if any at all) it's just that he's so damn effin lucky ._.
And his luck really does a lot. It wins cases for him, and so he makes up for his lack of skill with his awesome luck.
About experience, sure Gavin has had more cases, but when I say experience I mean experience of being a hair short of losing and then turning everything around. Phoenix's had uhm... wait... almost every case he handled was like that wasn't it? >.> (except the first case in every game).
I agree with you on the second part, though I do have to say, it's not entirely impossible. Megaman (Capcom's poster boy) did lose thrice before beating Sigma fully, though he "wins" and then Sigma just comes back.
"Blood Elf logic is flawless. Just don't get me started on my hair."
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Croik wrote:
Phoenix was a lawyer for 3 years before being disbarred, Klavier for 7. I think Klav at least wins out in experience
Isn't it inferred that State vs Wocky Kitaki is Klavier's second case (after State vs Shadi Enigmar/Zak Gramarye)?
From 4-2
Quote:
Long time no see...Prosecutor Gavin. Were you taking a leave of absence? You know that little band I started in my free time? Thing is, we got real popular. Hard to say "nein" to yourfans when three of your singles go platinum, ja?
...I see. To be honest, I was a little concerned. I feared that you might still be distraught over that one trial...Also, in 4-4:
Quote:
Incidentally... the prosecutor today is a new guy, I hear.So judging by the above quotes from the game, Klavier's first trial was State vs Enigmar/Gramarye and then spent the next 7 years touring the world as the lead singer of the Gavviners, which means that Phoenix wins in the experience stakes.
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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4-2 was klavier's second case.
so phoenix has more experience
always remeber 2 things.
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOGANT
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Wrestler Hatman wrote:
It depends on who's the culprit.
If the culprit is Phoenix's client, Klavier wins before the trial is even started.
If the culprit is Phoenix's client, Klavier wins before the trial is even started.
This~
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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DramaticaXIV2 wrote:
That might not mean it's his second case.
It's not necessarily his second case, but I believe the exact words were:
: Long time no see...Prosecutor Gavin. Were you taking a leave of absence? : You know that band I started in my free time? Thing is, we got real popular. Hard to say "nein" to your fans when three of your singles go platinum, ja?
: ...I see. To be honest, I was a little concerned.I feared that you might still be distraught over that one trial.
Not to worry, Herr Judge. I wouldn't miss this day in court for the world.He at least hadn't been in court for quite a while. At most, one or two cases in between.
'Sides, experience doesn't count. ^^ Phoenix vs. Godot, Franziska, and Edgeworth proves it. (Oh, and Payne, but he doesn't ever really count...)
Phoenix has some amount of skill...as does Klavier. Phoenix has no edge in court as he cannot use the Magatama and we're assuming he doesn't have Trucy, Apollo, or any of the Feys to help him out. Klavier didn't have those anyway, so that's good...
...*thinking*
...
...
...Yeah, it comes down to the client. Although if Phoenix pulls anything like in 4-1 again...well, not going to be good for him. ^^
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Croik wrote:
Lighthaven wrote:
Let's see... Phoenix has the Magatama, connections to the spirit world, really good luck, and experience...
Gavin has... a really cool older brother.
Ergo, Phoenix has more stuff to help him win than Gavin, so he wins.
Clear enough?
Gavin has... a really cool older brother.
Ergo, Phoenix has more stuff to help him win than Gavin, so he wins.
Clear enough?
Phoenix was a lawyer for 3 years before being disbarred, Klavier for 7. I think Klav at least wins out in experience. The rest of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with Phoenix's skill but rather his connections. If the police had a magical lie detector then they might never arrest another innocent person and then where would Phoenix's career be?
Ultimately I think the winner would still be Phoenix if only because I don't think Capcom would ever put him in the position to lose against Klavier again. It wouldn't suit any purpose in the story. And even if for some reason they do end up against each other, you'd probably be playing as Phoenix, in which case you would still win, because that's just how the games work. From a gameplay point of view it would be a mistake too.
I think we've already established that experience means nothing
(however perhaps experience should not be judged by time but the individual experiences: in other words Nick defeated Manfred, turned Shelly against Matt, etc. vs. Klavier who beat nick by cheating) and while the things Nick has have nothing to do with his skill remember he is the ex-protagonist and that protagonists get a power boost even if your not playing as them. The connections are important too, for example Nick has what Lighthaven said, and what Klavier has is an psychotic, forging, imprisoned older brother.So in the end Nick wins 3 to 0, Exp, Connections and ex-protagonist boost.
Yeah Klavier wouldn't stand a snowball's chance.
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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always remeber 2 things.
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Amethyst wrote:
: ...I see. To be honest, I was a little concerned.I feared that you might still be distraught over that one trial.
Hmm, this is actually very interesting for me, I remember. It may mean the seven years ago one, or maybe the one where Kristoph was convicted. Hmm. One of the few bits of possible character development.
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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DramaticaXIV2 wrote:
phoenixwrightmaster wrote:
but you have to say that gavin is really good to
Erm, no.
Why, I detect a LOT opf Klavierhate.
Not only this topic but.. way more often xD.
He ain;t that bad, he's just a douchebag.
I'd say Phoenix wins, obviously.
But it mostly depends on the client; he's the casemaker.
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOGANT
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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But we do know that Klavier took a world tour the year before. Maybe he hasn't been in court since then? If Klavier had stopped working as a prosecutor entirely after his first case the Judge wouldn't have to worry if Klavier was upset about the case, it would be pretty obvious!
Anyway, I'm not saying that Klavier's experience would give him the edge over Phoenix, I'm just saying that even though we have seen a lot of Phoenix I don't think *his* experience gives him an edge over Klavier. People are also citing his "connections" as a strength but Klavier does have the entire law enforcement system behind him (and it's not like he couldn't hire a Fey channeller if he really wanted one). The only thing Phoenix really has that Klavier lacks is the magatama, which is kind of like saying "Phoenix would beat Klavier because he cheats."
That and his luck, which he gets from being the protagonist. I'm sure if they ever faced each other in the story again Phoenix would win, but I don't think that necessarily makes Phoenix the better lawyer.
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Croik wrote:
Anyway, I'm not saying that Klavier's experience would give him the edge over Phoenix, I'm just saying that even though we have seen a lot of Phoenix I don't think *his* experience gives him an edge over Klavier. People are also citing his "connections" as a strength but Klavier does have the entire law enforcement system behind him (and it's not like he couldn't hire a Fey channeller if he really wanted one). The only thing Phoenix really has that Klavier lacks is the magatama, which is kind of like saying "Phoenix would beat Klavier because he cheats."
And even then, I don't recall the Magatama being used in court (not even a mention of it, as we all know it was a gameplay mechanic allowing the use of cross-examination outside of court), so... yeah. Since we're talking court-time only, the Magatama becomes "useless".
Quote:
That and his luck, which he gets from being the protagonist. I'm sure if they ever faced each other in the story again Phoenix would win, but I don't think that necessarily makes Phoenix the better lawyer.
His luck replaces smarts. I'm pretty sure that, were Phoenix the antagonist and Klavier the protagonist, Klavier'd become dumb as bricks, yet lucky as all hell.
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Spoiler:
Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried to close a revolving door.
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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The Objector wrote:
Phoenix. Given normal circumstances for a GS game (innocent clients, proper investigation time) I believe that Phoenix would win. And I also think that Klavier and Phoenix are very truth-oriented- or at least more truth oriented than Edgeworth, Franziska, and Godot (at the time), so I'm not so sure it would be a 'win-lose' kind of faceoff, to be frank. Yeah... If a 'win' for Phoenix is a not guilty and a 'win' for Klavier is a 'guilty', than Phoenix wins. Explanation follows- in spoilers.
Spoiler:
I could have sworn Mia appeared once in 1-5.
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Optimus Prime wrote:
Phoenix is like Platnuim and Gavin is like gold. Platnuim is worth more than gold.
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
The Objector wrote:
Phoenix. Given normal circumstances for a GS game (innocent clients, proper investigation time) I believe that Phoenix would win. And I also think that Klavier and Phoenix are very truth-oriented- or at least more truth oriented than Edgeworth, Franziska, and Godot (at the time), so I'm not so sure it would be a 'win-lose' kind of faceoff, to be frank. Yeah... If a 'win' for Phoenix is a not guilty and a 'win' for Klavier is a 'guilty', than Phoenix wins. Explanation follows- in spoilers.
Spoiler:
I could have sworn Mia appeared once in 1-5.
Well, Mia did show up, but it was in his mind, not like she was literally being channeled or was talking to Phoenix, he just saw her in his head/imagination.
Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried to close a revolving door.
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Optimus Prime wrote:
Phoenix is like Platnuim and Gavin is like gold. Platnuim is worth more than gold.
I thought we were talking about Kristoph and Wright. Oh, well, I probably should've skimmed the topic better. Because Wright wears a dull gray (or silver) jacket but Kristoph has blonde (or gold) hair.
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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The Objector wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
The Objector wrote:
Phoenix. Given normal circumstances for a GS game (innocent clients, proper investigation time) I believe that Phoenix would win. And I also think that Klavier and Phoenix are very truth-oriented- or at least more truth oriented than Edgeworth, Franziska, and Godot (at the time), so I'm not so sure it would be a 'win-lose' kind of faceoff, to be frank. Yeah... If a 'win' for Phoenix is a not guilty and a 'win' for Klavier is a 'guilty', than Phoenix wins. Explanation follows- in spoilers.
Spoiler:
I could have sworn Mia appeared once in 1-5.
Well, Mia did show up, but it was in his mind, not like she was literally being channeled or was talking to Phoenix, he just saw her in his head/imagination.
Ehh, but she "helped" him...well, not really, but she was technically there...
But yeah, 1-5 was epic because of the lack of Feys, I think.
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Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
But yeah, 1-5 was epic because of the lack of Feys, I think.
I'm not a big fan of 1-5 but I did appreciate the lack of Feys (even if they were still kind of there via the Skyes...) I spent the whole trilogy wishing that Phoenix could do a case on his own, without depending on Mia to always point him in the right direction; especially in 3-2 where she only popped up right at the end just in time to point out Atmey's mistake and knew all the case details despite not having been around for the rest of it. Time to cut the apron strings, lady!
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
Ooh, a real drumroll. Nice.
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Optimus Prime wrote:
Phoenix is like Platnuim and Gavin is like gold. Platnuim is worth more than gold.
Actualy, Ema says it's only gold plated.
Yeah, Their both obssesed with truth but Nick has a magatama so he'll never get a guilty client and then Klavier will end up helping Nick get the client no guilty like in 4-4.
Re: Wright V.S. Gavin
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Croik wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
But yeah, 1-5 was epic because of the lack of Feys, I think.
I'm not a big fan of 1-5 but I did appreciate the lack of Feys (even if they were still kind of there via the Skyes...) I spent the whole trilogy wishing that Phoenix could do a case on his own, without depending on Mia to always point him in the right direction; especially in 3-2 where she only popped up right at the end just in time to point out Atmey's mistake and knew all the case details despite not having been around for the rest of it. Time to cut the apron strings, lady!
I'm pretty sure that, if he had to, Phoenix could figure out half of the stuff at least on his own, especially in Trials and Tribulations. Notice how Pearl wasn't even there for Recipe for Turnabout; she simply wasn't needed for anything. In fact, the Feys wouldn't have been needed at all, if it weren't for the waitress schtick. Besides, Phoenix had quite a few trials under his belt already by that point, he shouldn't rely on them for everything...
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