The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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1. The obvious one: the gun. It is mentioned multiple times that it would hurt the shooter, yet Machi's arm doesn't look very ripped off. They conclude what this fact means by "Daryan couldn't play properly"? Please check everyone's arms, as this would be a massive clue.
2. On the main site: from Machi's height, the bullet marks in the wall would be higher.
3. Okay, so Machi's not blind. But Ema didn't know this at the time of arrest. So it would be impossible.
4. What could be said for Daryan in the third set also goes to Machi in the second. Once we had proved that the killing happened in the second set, Machi was on stage, like Daryan was in the third. (Thanks to KHF for also noticing this)
5. We didn't check for fingerprints. If Machi did it, his fingerprints would have been on the gun, as they were on the vent. As they were, if no fingerprints were on, then Machi didn't do it. A possible explanation that Machi could have used something in the room to hold the gun, but I find this unlikely.
6. Also on the subject of the weapon, Machi would have a hard time getting the gun, as LeTouse was a large manager, who, not to mention, was in Interpol.
7. And on the subject of the victim, either Machi's a supervillain, or he couldn't have took a man 3x his size with a guitar and dragged him ontop of a raised platform like that unnoticed. He passed out at the top, it looks like. That's basically saying that he didn't do it.
8. He "might" have had a motive? Ugh.
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Plus, LeTouse even said he didn't know who his killer was, though it was clear he definately saw the person. Since he knows Machi, his killer could not have been him.
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
And let's not forget how he wrestled a gun off a trained interpol agent three-times his size!
Plus, LeTouse even said he didn't know who his killer was, though it was clear he definately saw the person. Since he knows Machi, his killer could not have been him.
Plus, LeTouse even said he didn't know who his killer was, though it was clear he definately saw the person. Since he knows Machi, his killer could not have been him.
As has been said before, why the hell didn't LeTouse tell us who killeds him, or at least, " the frickin weirdo wth the giant hair killed me", etc.
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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(one that's always said but not in this thread) LeTouce said Lamiror saw it, but how did he know she was in the air vent at the exactt time he got shot?
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Quote:
3. Okay, so Machi's not blind. But Ema didn't know this at the time of arrest. So it would be impossible.
The fact that Machi's blind came up in the trial as an explanation for why he missed the first shot. Even the second shot was inaccurate and didn't kill LeTouse for twenty minutes. Machi had a huge target to shoot at, and a small space. It's not impossible to think that he could have hit him (other contradictions about the gun aside).
Quote:
4. What could be said for Daryan in the third set also goes to Machi in the second. Once we had proved that the killing happened in the second set, Machi was on stage, like Daryan was in the third. (Thanks to KHF for also noticing this)
But that's the point - the system is screwed up because it insists upon finding someone responsible. It's part of the reason why it needed to be changed via the Jury System.
Not to mention the only reason you knew the shooting happened during that time for sure was thanks to Lamiroir's testimony, and she had motivation to lie, so you really had to see the reasoning all the way through.
Didn't the same thing kind of happen in 1-3 when you proved Powers couldn't have gotten to the murder scene...?
Quote:
6. Also on the subject of the weapon, Machi would have a hard time getting the gun, as LeTouse was a large manager, who, not to mention, was in Interpol.
You don't know that the gun was "wrestled" from LeTouse. You could argue that because Machi was small, LeTouse underestimated him or didn't suspect him at all (of being capable of murder, anyway). LeTouse was Lamiroir's manager, so he was probably very used to having Machi around him. Maybe Machi stuck close to him with his blindness as an excuse and just snatched the gun away when LeTouse was distracted.
Obviously that didn't happen, but "Machi couldn't have *fought* the gun from LeTouse" doesn't mean much.
Quote:
8. He "might" have had a motive? Ugh.
[/quote]The police had to assume that someone who knew the victim would have more reason to kill him than someone who didn't know him, especially given the bizarre nature of the crime. In PW they frequently arrest people on the presumption of motive.
The rest...Yeah they make no sense.
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Spoiler:
Spoiler:
And then there's
who has so many contradictions I'm not even going to try (plus it would overlap into 4-4 contradictions).
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
Machi's being blind wasn't just an issue for the shooting, though. The whole thing would have been a bit much for a blind person to handle, even if they were an adult, especially dragging the body and guitar to that platform, activating it, then getting up there seperately.
It's already nearly impossible for someone his size to move the body at all. If they're assuming he has Herculean powers, throwing his blindness into the mix can't make it even less plausible.
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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"The police in PW/AJ are dumb".
Or desperate, I guess.
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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neoswordmaster wrote:
Spoiler:
I think about this every single time they mention money.
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Saloma wrote:
neoswordmaster wrote:
Spoiler:
I think about this every single time they mention money.
Plus, I don't think Trucy will have allowance in 15 years. She'll have a thing called a Job.
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Prosecutor Manella wrote:
Saloma wrote:
neoswordmaster wrote:
Spoiler:
I think about this every single time they mention money.
Plus, I don't think Trucy will have allowance in 15 years. She'll have a thing called a Job.
She probably will. 30- year and older magicians seem to be in high demand by AJ:AA.
When do they say Trucy gets an allowance?
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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OOOokkkaaayyyyy tthhheeennnnnn................
Obviously it's all this stuff that should make you believe Machi never did it. Obviously.
*snackoos you all*
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Because it's so laughably shite.
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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The volume of the speaker is described as 'blaring', and getting close to even a relatively quiet speaker with a live mic that feeds into it can be a recipe for a pretty wicked case of feedback... (Like a badly set up stage monitor, I can say from experience.
)
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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have created a lapse of time where he would have to re-aim. Assuming LeTouse doesn't have a sucky reaction time (i mean, he's a bodyguard, for cryin' out loud), he would've had time to grab Machi by the collar, lift him off the ground, and re-claim the gun.
Really, the only way Machi could have even remotely commited the crime would be if he was a werewolf or the Hulk or someting.
Stupid AA police.
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Valant's magic trick required Lamiroir to already be heading towards backstage so she could reappear.
1. I think this is obvious but how does an entire audience mistake a man with an Ocelot-esque mustache for a WOMAN. Especially Klavier: He wasn't in on the trick, and was standing right in front of her.
2. How does a tiny earpiece broadcast concert-quality vocals?
3. Here's the big one. Why did Lamiroir need to move through the vent at all? If the idea was for her to appear on that platform, and Valant takes her place beforehand...why not START on that platform? There's no need for any 20-second rush!
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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If Romein Letouse was shot during the second act in Lamrior's dressing room during her act, why did she not go back to her dressing room after the act (If she did whe would have discovered Letouse). Plus the smell of gunpowder and/or blood should have alerted someone.
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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As to why Lamiroir did just wait at the end of the vent, probably because she needed a cue. If she were just waiting, how would she know when to come out? I believe she was told to start through the vent at a certain part of the act, to ensure she would arrive around the same time as her cloak.
And Lamiroir not returning to her dressing room after her performance isn't really a contradiction. She just didn't do it. Perhaps she wanted to stay and watch Klavier perform. Perhaps people were talking to her. Perhaps Machi convinced her not to for some reason.
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Why do Machi and Daryan need to smuggle cocoons in (on penalty of death no less), in order to get money in some convulted plot involving the chief justice, when both are part of highly successful musical groups?
I mean at least three of the Gavinners albums went platinum, ja?
I doubt they get paid peanuts.
And Lamirior is famous enough that
uses her music in her magic shows, so Machi should be pretty well off too.certainly they're not as in need of dough as
, right?
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
As to why Lamiroir did just wait at the end of the vent, probably because she needed a cue. If she were just waiting, how would she know when to come out? I believe she was told to start through the vent at a certain part of the act, to ensure she would arrive around the same time as her cloak.
The cues are established with the speakers placed throughout the building. Besides, she has the earpiece, and can hear the timing of the song herself. Besides, using the movement of a blind singer through a vent as a timing instrument seems extraordinarily imprecise.
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Magnus Orion wrote:
Here's another one on the topic of people's money.
Why do Machi and Daryan need to smuggle cocoons in (on penalty of death no less), in order to get money in some convulted plot involving the chief justice, when both are part of highly successful musical groups?
I mean at least three of the Gavinners albums went platinum, ja?
I doubt they get paid peanuts.
And Lamirior is famous enough that uses her music in her magic shows, so Machi should be pretty well off too.
certainly they're not as in need of dough as , right?
Why do Machi and Daryan need to smuggle cocoons in (on penalty of death no less), in order to get money in some convulted plot involving the chief justice, when both are part of highly successful musical groups?
I mean at least three of the Gavinners albums went platinum, ja?
I doubt they get paid peanuts.
And Lamirior is famous enough that
uses her music in her magic shows, so Machi should be pretty well off too.certainly they're not as in need of dough as
, right?I think the situation looked bleak and they needed a man for the job and Daryan was willing to take it on..He is a bit of a risk-taker..I doubt it's for the money really..
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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neoswordmaster wrote:
Here's one that no one notices.
Spoiler:
Maybe he gets paid tons of money just to play poker...
TheSteelSamurai wrote:
And Lamiroir not returning to her dressing room after her performance isn't really a contradiction.Perhaps Machi convinced her not to for some reason.
Due to the whole cocoon business, perhaps? 
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Croik wrote:
Most of these are already in the contradictions thread, and some of them have been answered already.
The fact that Machi's blind came up in the trial as an explanation for why he missed the first shot. Even the second shot was inaccurate and didn't kill LeTouse for twenty minutes. Machi had a huge target to shoot at, and a small space. It's not impossible to think that he could have hit him (other contradictions about the gun aside).
Well, the gun was a 45 milimeter. Of course he missed, as a person his size could not aim the weapon properly due to the heavyweight of the weapon. This was assumed before the real killer was found later.
Maybe he gets paid tons of money just to play poker...
Wait a minute..
Didn't Phoenix say that he never got paid in poker in the first case? They weren't playing poker for money, but for pride, I suppose.
Quote:
3. Okay, so Machi's not blind. But Ema didn't know this at the time of arrest. So it would be impossible.
The fact that Machi's blind came up in the trial as an explanation for why he missed the first shot. Even the second shot was inaccurate and didn't kill LeTouse for twenty minutes. Machi had a huge target to shoot at, and a small space. It's not impossible to think that he could have hit him (other contradictions about the gun aside).
Quote:
4. What could be said for Daryan in the third set also goes to Machi in the second. Once we had proved that the killing happened in the second set, Machi was on stage, like Daryan was in the third. (Thanks to KHF for also noticing this)
Well, the gun was a 45 milimeter. Of course he missed, as a person his size could not aim the weapon properly due to the heavyweight of the weapon. This was assumed before the real killer was found later.
NinjaMonkey wrote:
neoswordmaster wrote:
Here's one that no one notices.
Spoiler:
Maybe he gets paid tons of money just to play poker...
Wait a minute..
Didn't Phoenix say that he never got paid in poker in the first case? They weren't playing poker for money, but for pride, I suppose.
TheSteelSamurai wrote:
Don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but we're never told why Machi or Daryan need money so badly. Not really a contradiction, but it kind of should have been mentioned.>_>
Quote:
They did, Dayan needed the money to save his son's life. That is why he sent Machi to steal the cocoon for him to save his sons life. Forget what the diasease was that his son had. For the money, they didn't mention anything about what they would do with the money due to the fact that they may not have anything important to spend it on.
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Ayanami wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
neoswordmaster wrote:
Here's one that no one notices.
Spoiler:
Maybe he gets paid tons of money just to play poker...
Wait a minute..
Didn't Phoenix say that he never got paid in poker in the first case? They weren't playing poker for money, but for pride, I suppose.
I'm sure the restaurant owner pays him for attracting customers to the establishment (since he has an seven year unbeaten winning streak) These customers inevitiably get thirsty during their game, which makes the restaurant money. While the actual game itself doesn't involve any money (as they play for points), I'm sure Phoenix gets paid for his services.
And don't forget that Trucy does shows at the Wonder Bar, every other night or so.
Ergo, I don't see any reason why Phoenix couldn't give Trucy an advance on 15 years worth of allowance.
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
O_O You got a little mixed up. It was the Cheif Justice's son who was sick. Daryan planned to sell the coccoon to him, because it was safer than the Black Market.
Selling it?? =O But how? The cheif doesn't know that the hospital may not have any knowledge on how to use the coccon much less putting the patient at risk of death, as the coccon can do the opposite to a person if not used correctly. I do believe that they have stated that sometime in the case. Either way, Daryan will do some serious time in jail with the judge knowing the risks involved with this illegal product.
NinjaMonkey wrote:
I'm sure the restaurant owner pays him for attracting customers to the establishment (since he has an seven year unbeaten winning streak) These customers inevitiably get thirsty during their game, which makes the restaurant money. While the actual game itself doesn't involve any money (as they play for points), I'm sure Phoenix gets paid for his services.
And don't forget that Trucy does shows at the Wonder Bar, every other night or so.
Ergo, I don't see any reason why Phoenix couldn't give Trucy an advance on 15 years worth of allowance.
And don't forget that Trucy does shows at the Wonder Bar, every other night or so.
Ergo, I don't see any reason why Phoenix couldn't give Trucy an advance on 15 years worth of allowance.
Spoiler 4-4
Spoiler:
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
I'm sure the restaurant owner pays him for attracting customers to the establishment (since he has an seven year unbeaten winning streak) These customers inevitiably get thirsty during their game, which makes the restaurant money. While the actual game itself doesn't involve any money (as they play for points), I'm sure Phoenix gets paid for his services.
And don't forget that Trucy does shows at the Wonder Bar, every other night or so.
Ergo, I don't see any reason why Phoenix couldn't give Trucy an advance on 15 years worth of allowance.
And don't forget that Trucy does shows at the Wonder Bar, every other night or so.
Ergo, I don't see any reason why Phoenix couldn't give Trucy an advance on 15 years worth of allowance.
However in 4-2 Trucy states "How are we going to pay our rent this month"(or groceries or something), meaning that a simple sprained ankle has put them in financial trouble, however in the next case Phoenix somehow comes up with enough money to give to Trucy worth fifteen years, and still they are able to eat, and have a roof over thier heads. And don't point out that the Kitaki's may have been generous or that they eat free noodles at Eldoons. That still dosn't compensate 15 years of allowance.
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neoswordmaster wrote:
However in 4-2 Trucy states "How are we going to pay our rent this month"(or groceries or something), meaning that a simple sprained ankle has put them in financial trouble, however in the next case Phoenix somehow comes up with enough money to give to Trucy worth fifteen years, and still they are able to eat, and have a roof over thier heads. And don't point out that the Kitaki's may have been generous or that they eat free noodles at Eldoons. That still dosn't compensate 15 years of allowance.
First of all there is a three week gap between the end of 4-2 and 4-3. Secondly, I'd have thought that Phoenix receives some kind of child benefit from the state. And finally, 'Shadi Smith' may have left Trucy some money in a will or something.
Besides, Phoenix's sprain can't be that bad, since he discharges himself by the second trial day - and I'm very sure it's possible to play poker with a sprained ankle.
Re: The Massive 4-3 Contradictions List *spoilers*
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
neoswordmaster wrote:
However in 4-2 Trucy states "How are we going to pay our rent this month"(or groceries or something), meaning that a simple sprained ankle has put them in financial trouble, however in the next case Phoenix somehow comes up with enough money to give to Trucy worth fifteen years, and still they are able to eat, and have a roof over thier heads. And don't point out that the Kitaki's may have been generous or that they eat free noodles at Eldoons. That still dosn't compensate 15 years of allowance.
First of all there is a three week gap between the end of 4-2 and 4-3. Secondly, I'd have thought that Phoenix receives some kind of child benefit from the state. And finally, 'Shadi Smith' may have left Trucy some money in a will or something.
Besides, Phoenix's sprain can't be that bad, since he discharges himself by the second trial day - and I'm very sure it's possible to play poker with a sprained ankle.
Shadi Smith wouldn't be declared leggally dead until a little later, so the will theroy dosen't work.
Also even with both of thier jobs, which basically bring in customers, don't pay that much. Even with Apollo's new job, it sounds unlikely.
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neoswordmaster wrote:
Shadi Smith wouldn't be declared leggally dead until a little later, so the will theroy dosen't work.
Also even with both of thier jobs, which basically bring in customers, don't pay that much. Even with Apollo's new job, it sounds unlikely.
Also even with both of thier jobs, which basically bring in customers, don't pay that much. Even with Apollo's new job, it sounds unlikely.
What do you mean by Shadi's not legally dead, by 4-2? They had an autopsy report confirming his death, and held a trial over his murder. (I don't know about you, but that sounds as though Shadi is legally dead to me!)
And I don't remember Apollo getting paid (much like Phoenix in AA 1-3)
. Besides, he has an apartment of his own, right? So, why bring him into this?
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Only her father, Zak Gramarye, would have left her something. However, I believe he legally dies soon after his murder, because that's why he came out of hiding.
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(Or haven't you completed 4-4 yet?)Besides Brushel's a notary, correct? Surely he'd help Shadi/Zak draft a will or something (just in case anything bad happened)?
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Only once they can confirm his identity is he actually dead.
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Hi! I've largely stepped back from C-R due to life stuff. Please contact one of the other staff members for help!
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Bolt Storm wrote:
I guess it's possible that they could've tracked down a will by "Smith" where he left stuff to Trucy,
Which is exactly my reasoning entirely.
Bolt Storm wrote:
but that would've certainly come up in the trial or at some point during the game.
Not necessarily, since it's a minor issue.
I wonder if the number of posts related to this particular issue, makes this the biggest contradiction in 2-3? (It certainly feels like it!)
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"Sorry, but that's impossible."
Zak Gramarye was in hiding. For seven years, he no one saw or heard a word from him. The only time he risked coming out of hiding was shortly before he would have been legally dead, and that was only to ensure Trucy would get the rights. That was pretty much his will right there. If there was more he wanted to give her, he wouldn't have needed to do it under his alias, and he would've just given it to Phoenix then, when he needed it and while he was there. As Shadi Smith, leaving stuff to Trucy and contacting anyone to create a will was foolish. He was very careful when it came to getting caught. And remember, Spark Brushel was being watched. If Zak had contacted him to have a will created, odds are he would have been killed a lot sooner.
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