Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I'm not sure how similar to the real process it is, having only a passing interest in the topic, but when people are restoring paintings, they'll use X-rays to determine what's original paint, what's environmental build-up, and what's previous attempts at restoration or censorship, thereby allowing them to clean it, and restore it to more or less the condition it was supposed to be in.
I'm pretty sure it is also used as Polly uses it, to check the rough sketches or other paintings that were painted over, though I may be imagining that.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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jonathanrp wrote:
jonathanrp wrote:
Also, wouldn't Klavier get hurt from hit gutiar being set on fire when he was playing it?
I know this is completely random and off topic from the earlier contradiction, but I was wondering
He got hurt. However, Capcom didn't have the patience to draw a Klavier with bandaged hand. Only major scenes (AKA: Phoenix's breakdown, villain's breakdown, the Supersaian Kristoph and the Burning Dahlia) get custom sprites drawn. Its just a little injury.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
rydus65 wrote:
I also wonder if Kristoph could deny letting Apollo be Phoenix's attorney? I was just wondering.
Kristoph knew Phoenix suspected him. He probably didn't want to appear any more suspicious, and he probably didn't think anything would come of it because (A) Olga Orly was the perfect scapegoat (B) He was there as an aide, so he could prevent his conviction (or so he thought)
He wanted to ensure that Orga would be convicted. Besides serving as the actual defense attorney, the best way to do so would be to serve as the defense attorney's aide. So it would be strange if he actually refused to let Apollo be Phoenix's attorney.
He didn't think of Apollo as a threat. And he was right, but he underestimated Phoenix's abilities; Kristoph's greatest fault was that never really respected anyone except himself.
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Spoiler: 4-3
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
If they found Machi's prints in the air vent 
, why didn't they find Lamroir's? 
, why didn't they find Lamroir's? Why would they? Machi climbed up the ladder and opened the air vent... Lamiroir didn't... Besides, her fingerprints would've been in the air DUCT, not the vent.
well, you'd think the police would be a little more thorough with their investigation, wouldn't you? if they looked in the area where they found machi's prints, lamroir's wouldn't be far off!
Since when in ANY of the games have the police been thorough with their investigations? Like in JFA case one? How someone could write a name with their neck snapped? Or how the main character always seems to find some decisive piece of evidence that the police just waltzed past?
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Maybe it's because
Spoiler: 1-5
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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jonathanrp wrote:
Why would they? Machi climbed up the ladder and opened the air vent... Lamiroir didn't... Besides, her fingerprints would've been in the air DUCT, not the vent.
well, you'd think the police would be a little more thorough with their investigation, wouldn't you? if they looked in the area where they found machi's prints, lamroir's wouldn't be far off![/quote]
Since when in ANY of the games have the police been thorough with their investigations? Like in JFA case one? How someone could write a name with their neck snapped? Or how the main character always seems to find some decisive piece of evidence that the police just waltzed past?[/quote]
hur yeah...
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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76_trombone wrote:
I don't know if it has already been mentioned and I'm not reading all the posts to find out.
Spoiler: 4-3
See above for a very similar argument...
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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jonathanrp wrote:
Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
Why would they? Machi climbed up the ladder and opened the air vent... Lamiroir didn't... Besides, her fingerprints would've been in the air DUCT, not the vent.
well, you'd think the police would be a little more thorough with their investigation, wouldn't you? if they looked in the area where they found machi's prints, lamroir's wouldn't be far off!
Since when in ANY of the games have the police been thorough with their investigations? Like in JFA case one? How someone could write a name with their neck snapped? Or how the main character always seems to find some decisive piece of evidence that the police just waltzed past?
(Also said, but misquoted)
Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
hur yeah... *USES MEN IN BLACK MEMORY ERASER THINGY* Hah!
*USES MEN IN BLACK MEMORY ERASER THINGY* Hah!You quoted incorrectly, but... MEH! Anyways...
Being "Thorough" didn't matter in this case... They only had to check the vent grate for their "Incriminating Evidence"... They had no reason to check out the ventilation duct itself...
They probably found that idea moot after finding his fingerprints on the grate... Remember, they didn't need to show "He opened the grate and went to ____________". Checking the duct would have been useful for proving THAT, but all they needed was "He opened the grate to escape through the duct". For this, they only require his fingerprints on the grate itself.
Not only that, but even though fingerprints can be attatched to a surface, the vent could easily distort them, since after all, it IS a ventiation system, with temperture fluctuations occuring each time the vents turn on... But that last point is purely speculation, since the system, while obviously USED, isn't clear on how it works in the case, other than "It makes a good Secret Tunnel"... Heh...
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I mean Feenie lost his badge at the case where he defended Zak so Trucy should never seen him in action
. Maybe?
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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76_trombone wrote:
Why is Trucy so good at law?
I mean Feenie lost his badge at the case where he defended Zak so Trucy should never seen him in action . Maybe?
I mean Feenie lost his badge at the case where he defended Zak so Trucy should never seen him in action
. Maybe?She could have read those law books of Nick's that he keeps in the office.
Or maybe not...
That's an interesting thought you've brought up, there.
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Saw a comic like that somewhere.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
In 4-4, Apollo claims to have seen the trial video for phoenix's final case many times, but he only saw it for the first time the prior day.
Actually, he could've seen it that one time, then constantly watched it again and again...
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
Lind_L_Tailor wrote:
In 4-4, Apollo claims to have seen the trial video for phoenix's final case many times, but he only saw it for the first time the prior day.
Actually, he could've seen it that one time, then constantly watched it again and again...
Well yeah, but if you think about how he would've watched all the rest of phoenix's footage, it seems unlikely. although yeah, it seems possible. i suppose apollo has a lot of free time on his hands if that's the case.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Litral wrote:
Well, they regularly assign a dofus and a jaded snack-eating machine to their most mysterious murder cases. Can't really expect them to be efficient doing that.
Maybe it's because
the three or four that you plaster? Maybe it's because
Spoiler: 1-5
LOL! Nice one about gummy and emma. Back to the point about Machi, even if it WAS possible for him to move it, wouldn't someone notice? Or him opening the stairs? How could he drag something like 400x his size up a staircase?!
In case 2, shouldn't there have been more footprints then there were, more than the three or four that you plaster?
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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If Daryan stole Klavier's keys, how did they end up in Letouse's hand?
These are more questions than contractions. How did Daryan steal the revolver from Letouse, an Interpol agent?
Why didn't Bolongia customs at least check Klavier's guitar if they were so paniced about the cocoons getting out?
And finally, The judge comment's on how Klavier was affected by a certain trial? Is he talking about Zak's trial? Why would Klavier be affected by a trial that he won?
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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rydus65 wrote:
Why didn't Bolongia customs at least check Klavier's guitar if they were so paniced about the cocoons getting out?
I recall him saying that he used a special evidence shipping service available to prosecutors only.
I think customs don't check the evidence that goes through there.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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rydus65 wrote:
Machi's fingerprints are on the vent. Shouldn't they be on the switch as well? I doubt he played piano with gloves on.
IIRC before day 2 court the switch hadn't been connected to the case yet. Klavier knew it was an igniter, but had no idea it was the one that lit his guitar on fire. I think...
Quote:
If Daryan stole Klavier's keys, how did they end up in Letouse's hand?
I don't see why not :D Daryan was carrying them, and could have dropped them accidentally or on purpose. LeTouse might have thought they belonged to Daryan and held them to show who the killer was.
Quote:
These are more questions than contractions. How did Daryan steal the revolver from Letouse, an Interpol agent?
Interpol agents aren't all badasses. He may have hit him hard on the head, took his pistol, and killed him with it.
Quote:
And finally, The judge comment's on how Klavier was affected by a certain trial? Is he talking about Zak's trial? Why would Klavier be affected by a trial that he won?
Edgeworth was similarly affected by a trial which... I dunno, I think it counts as a victory or at least not a failure for him (since he was undefeated before he met Phoenix). Just because he won the trial doesn't mean it went well with him. He personally saw a famous ace attorney "unmasked" as a cheating, forging liar and still failed to find the truth or prosecute the correct criminal (in his eyes) properly.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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rydus65 wrote:
Machi's fingerprints are on the vent. Shouldn't they be on the switch as well? I doubt he played piano with gloves on.
He could've wiped the prints... it's not that hard to do, really... Also, the analysis couldn't be done, seeing as how it was the last day and all... If they checked the switch, the prints COULD be on it but... they didn't dust it for prints...
rydus65 wrote:
If Daryan stole Klavier's keys, how did they end up in Letouse's hand?
Litral pretty much explained this one already: LeTouse could have grabbed it with his last ounce of strength, or Daryan could've dropped it, then LeTouse could've grabbed it before Daryan could realize the keys were missing.
rydus65 wrote:
These are more questions than contractions. How did Daryan steal the revolver from Letouse, an Interpol agent?
...You're kidding, right? Daryan has had Firearms Training, and one of the key components of it is, of course, Disarming! Daryan could've disarmed LeTouse, or he could've stunned him and taken his gun... Heck, LeTouse could've set his gun down somewhere while he checked the Guitar, and Daryan could've picked it up then!
rydus65 wrote:
Why didn't Bolongia customs at least check Klavier's guitar if they were so paniced about the cocoons getting out?
Despite the ideas of others, I believe they weren't entirely thorough, which was the reason LeTouse was deployed as Lamiroir's Manager... because they suspected that, despite their search of his items, the cocoons were taken out of the country. As it is stated in-game, LeTouse would've checked the shipping records, and learned what was NOT checked out.
rydus65 wrote:
And finally, The judge comment's on how Klavier was affected by a certain trial? Is he talking about Zak's trial? Why would Klavier be affected by a trial that he won?
Of COURSE he'd be affected by it! His first trial, and he had to reveal forged evidence, AND the "Suspect" vanished from the court!
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
rydus65 wrote:
If Daryan stole Klavier's keys, how did they end up in Letouse's hand?
Litral pretty much explained this one already: LeTouse could have grabbed it with his last ounce of strength, or Daryan could've dropped it, then LeTouse could've grabbed it before Daryan could realize the keys were missing.
Um... Wasn't the entire murder staged to go with the lyrics of The Guitar's Serenade? Daryan put the keys in LeTouse's hand after he shot him.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Marshmello wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
rydus65 wrote:
If Daryan stole Klavier's keys, how did they end up in Letouse's hand?
Litral pretty much explained this one already: LeTouse could have grabbed it with his last ounce of strength, or Daryan could've dropped it, then LeTouse could've grabbed it before Daryan could realize the keys were missing.
Um... Wasn't the entire murder staged to go with the lyrics of The Guitar's Serenade? Daryan put the keys in LeTouse's hand after he shot him.
Unfortunately, no. "When you stole away the keys my heart held onto so tight" does not explain why LeTouse would have them. The act of them being STOLEN went with the lyrics. LeTouse having them, made no difference.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Wrestlemania wrote:
Marshmello wrote:
Wrestlemania wrote:
Litral pretty much explained this one already: LeTouse could have grabbed it with his last ounce of strength, or Daryan could've dropped it, then LeTouse could've grabbed it before Daryan could realize the keys were missing.
Um... Wasn't the entire murder staged to go with the lyrics of The Guitar's Serenade? Daryan put the keys in LeTouse's hand after he shot him.
Unfortunately, no. "When you stole away the keys my heart held onto so tight" does not explain why LeTouse would have them. The act of them being STOLEN went with the lyrics. LeTouse having them, made no difference.
Well, they were stolen nonetheless. it doesn't really matter who stole them, the point is that they were stolen
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Or at least, that's how I interpretted it
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Marshmello wrote:
I agree with Lind. There are three parts to that phrase that were mirrored in the crime: The key's were stolen, they were attached to a heart, and LeTouse was holding onto them.
Or at least, that's how I interpretted it
Or at least, that's how I interpretted it
I'll give you the first two, but where in the song can LeTouse holding the keys, be interpretted?
All I need to do to prove what I've been trying to prove all this time, is simply think of any number of alternative ideas that COULD have been used, and still get the same result, without messing with the lyrics.
Here's three:
1. Daryan tosses the keys with Klavier's personal belongings later on.
2. Daryan keeps the keys, and never loses them.
3. Daryan tosses the keys into the piano at any point in time, where he is given the chance to without being seen.
All three of these ideas are plausible replacements for the events that actually took place, and none of them change the script.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Either way, if Daryan didn't leave the keys somewhere at the crime scene, the crime could have lost some of its correlation with the song because the missing heart keychain would otherwise have nothing to do with the case. I'm sticking to my guns and saying the keys were placed in LeTouse's hand on purpose.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Marshmello wrote:
I was thinking of the "held on to so tight" part of the line. Letouse was holding the keys.
Either way, if Daryan didn't leave the keys somewhere at the crime scene, the crime could have lost some of its correlation with the song because the missing heart keychain would otherwise have nothing to do with the case. I'm sticking to my guns and saying the keys were placed in LeTouse's hand on purpose.
Either way, if Daryan didn't leave the keys somewhere at the crime scene, the crime could have lost some of its correlation with the song because the missing heart keychain would otherwise have nothing to do with the case. I'm sticking to my guns and saying the keys were placed in LeTouse's hand on purpose.
"My heart held onto so tight" refers to the Keychain holding onto the keys, and it being in the shape of a heart.
In fact, Klavier AND Apollo state this numerous times during the course of the case... and also Trucy, and Ema.
While it's true that the keychain wouldn't SEEM to have been able to be put into the case without them discovering it, there's also a good chance that Klavier could've asked "Herr Forehead" to look for it later on, and thus, provide a description of the keychain.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I see where you're coming from, but this just isn't a contradiction. Maybe Daryan didn't need to give LeTouse the keys, but he apparently did. This is the same as the "Why was Daryan smuggling cocoons when he didn't need money?" thing; just because something isn't needed doesn't mean that it can't be done anyway. The fact that him doing it or not doesn't change the outcome of the case is a non-issue. Machi could have been a chimpanzee with a set of bagpipes and the case would have stayed generally the same. Alternate ways for the plot to advance do not a contradiction make.
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Marshmello wrote:
*sticks to guns*
I see where you're coming from, but this just isn't a contradiction. Maybe Daryan didn't need to give LeTouse the keys, but he apparently did. This is the same as the "Why was Daryan smuggling cocoons when he didn't need money?" thing; just because something isn't needed doesn't mean that it can't be done anyway. The fact that him doing it or not doesn't change the outcome of the case is a non-issue. Machi could have been a chimpanzee with a set of bagpipes and the case would have stayed generally the same. Alternate ways for the plot to advance do not a contradiction make.
I see where you're coming from, but this just isn't a contradiction. Maybe Daryan didn't need to give LeTouse the keys, but he apparently did. This is the same as the "Why was Daryan smuggling cocoons when he didn't need money?" thing; just because something isn't needed doesn't mean that it can't be done anyway. The fact that him doing it or not doesn't change the outcome of the case is a non-issue. Machi could have been a chimpanzee with a set of bagpipes and the case would have stayed generally the same. Alternate ways for the plot to advance do not a contradiction make.
For the second-last point, you can't charge a chimpanzee with murder...
Well, maybe Manfred von Karma could. Anyways...
I already explained why he would risk that if he didn't need money, it's because you can NEVER have enough money! A man could have $999,999,999.99, that doesn't mean they wouldn't pick up a penny they find on the ground, ese!
My previous point was that this was, in no way, shape, or form, a contradiction... It's just an unfilled question of "Why did they do this?"... Which can be made with a large number of things in PW.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I think Daryan planted the keys so that they would be found and the connection with the song would be made. After all, Daryan murdered according to the song in order to make people thing the order was the same as in the song and the murder was during the third act when he had an alibi.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Here it is:
There were footprints in specific locations at the scene of the crime.
But how did the footprints get there?
Shouldn't there be prints leading up to the ones at the locations?
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I meant in Turnabout Corners, when you see the drama near the noodle stand as the location, and the footprints i meant were the ones you investigate with Ema
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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rydus65 wrote:
Why does Valant get to have his staff in jail? I know people complain about Engarde's glasses, Max's cards, and Maya's memo, but Valant's staff can be used as a weapon.
He wasn't in JAIL, ese. He was being temporarily held in Detention. He even says that he would be released soon.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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jonathanrp wrote:
Um... Did Engarde wear glasses?
He had "glasses" of chocolate milk.
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