Okay, so I've gotten a lot of crap from some friends of mine about this game being my least favourite of the series. People say that I just don't like change. Well, I want to justify my dislike for this game in general.

The biggest quirk is that Apollo is, quite frankly, completely worthless. In 4-1, Phoenix essentially defends himself. In 4-2, Trucy takes most of the credit. In 4-3 and 4-4, Klavier does most of the work for you. (Generally this is story-wise, though the same could be said about gameplay in some parts, too, even)

However, what about the moments in which you DO something? You don't use evidence like a legitimate attorney. Instead, you somehow manage to get witnesses to admit their guilt because their neck was itching when they were talking about something. >_> Wow, that makes a lot of sense. Without that bracelet, Apollo probably would have lost every case in the game. At least with the Magatama, you could have gotten the info out of them on the witness stand (Proven by Edgey in 3-5), so it wasn't like your case ever hinged on it. It just helped you out.

Next, are the cases. 4-1 and 4-4 are decent. But 4-3 is really just a big mess...Not only does it have the most obvious killer in the series, they shove that little 30-second clip of Lamiroir singing down your throat multiple times. Also, after re-beating 4-2, I'm now under the impression that it's the worst case in the series, hands-down. Every character in it is really boring. The panties subplot is not only unnecessary, it also makes a completely unfunny subplot. It feels like a one-off joke that they kept repeating over and over again.

Though 4-4 is decent, as I said, one huge quirk is just the way it ends. Instead of one final piece of evidence that brings down the big villain, all you get is Klavier saying "Oh yeah, there's a jury" and then Kristoph breaks down. It's like, oh, okay, why am I here again?

Now then, let's move on to Trucy. At this point, I think the developers thought, "Hey, what if re-use Maya, but with a different name, slightly more annoying personality, and make her a magician?". Maya was perky in a fun and cute way. Trucy just acts like she drank coffee before each scene. Coffee laced with crack.

Klavier is just boring. He never seems to care about any of the trials at all. He tries to copy the badassness of PW2/3 Edgey or Godot, but he just ends up looking like a terrible prosecutor. Oh, and for some reason he's also a rock star. Um...Neat? Ultimately, other than Payne, Gavin is the worst prosecutor we've seen so far.

Then there's AJ Phoenix. I never really thought that keeping Phoenix was a great idea in the first place, since they were trying to move away from his arc. Well, keeping him leaves us with a horribly simplified and honestly, completely different Phoenix. Phoenix is a lovable oaf who struggles to succeed but barely manages to do so in the end. He's not a cryptic badass who always knows everything about every case before it happens. Additionally, 4-4 Flashback Phoenix is absolutely terrible. Again, they completely ruin his entire personality, this time by making him into an arrogant jerk, like an angrier PW1 Edgeworth or something.

The same could be said about 4-4 Gumshoe. The first three games built him up as a lovable detective with a small rivalry with Phoenix, but he's ultimately his friend and is very dependable and stuff. In 4-4, they made him seem like Phoenix murdered his family or something.

Now, there are some good things that came out of AJ. Namely, Olga, Vera, Spark, and Ema to some extent. Olga was legitimately interesting as a witness and rather fun in general as someone evil, but not a villain. Vera was just pretty cool overall. Spark managed to remind me of Lotta in a good way, except being helpful and stuff instead of trying to beat you. Ema was interesting when not in irritated Snackoo fanatic mode.


Point is, they could have done a lot more with Apollo. The are all pretty eh, most of the characters are annoying ripoffs of PW characters, the returning characters just return for emotional impact but otherwise are nothing like they were before, and Apollo/Klavier are both just absolutely terrible at what they do.

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I agree with GP xD

But also....

Well, AJ was made by a different team from PW, which is probably why the flashback was so different. Also, Shu Takumi (is that his name?) didn't want to have Phoenix in the game, but the higher-ups made him put it in (as with the Jurist System). Anyway...

Trucy: Well, she's younger and more immature than Maya xD It would have been nice to have her be a bit different, but I would a depressed, emo chick really be as good?

Apollo: The game was about Phoenix... Maybe he'll get better in GS5 >_>

Klavier: Yes, the worst prosecutor in the series! (And the best defense attorney :D) I guess they made him a rockstar for 4-3 or something? I didn't really mind Phoenix in 4-1, I thought Trucy could've been a bit less in 4-2, but did it really have to be KLAVIER in 4-3 and 4-4?! ...I really hope we get a good prosecutor in GS5.

Phoenix: Just think of PW!Phoenix and AJ!Phoenix as completely different and separate people. It'll help. Trust me.

4-1: Yeah, decent. Definitely an amazing twist for a first case :P If only Apollo had more of a role, but... I enjoyed Objection! 2001 :3

4-2: Wocky was super-annoying, Plum and Winfred were meh, Guy was T_T, and Alita was eeeeeh... So... yeah.

4-3: Full of holes yes, but actually pretty neat once/if you get past the whole "WHY WERE THEY STPUID ENOUGH TO ARREST MACHI?!" thing.

4-4: First half was decent, MASON System was eh (although it was a horrible representation of the PW-era characters, and why couldn't they make the new AJ characters the PW size for the flashback?!) and the last day was horrible. You don't do anything, there was a super-easy present and then a simple perceive... no big present like the other games.




So... yeah. I agree with you on some things, but 2-1 was holey enough and 2-3 annoying enough and 2-4 full-of-horribly-revealing-foreshadowing enough for me to list JFA the least.

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Nice Rant.

Firstly sure they made mistakes in the game and Apollo has an easy time.

Secondly Nick and Edgeworth NEVER use the Magatama in court, and without the Magatama Nick would probably have lost a lot of cases or done the wrong thing (he'd never have uncovered Engarde's secret).

It's not uncommon for the filler cases to 'suck' but I was fine with them though I'll admit repeating the video clip got dull. The panties subplot was hilarious.

If anything 4-4 is the game's main failing due to inconsistencies. I thoroughly preferred Trucy to Maya. She's more justified to act the way she does because of her age. Her magic tricks are cool AND she's substantially less damsel-in-distressy than Maya as she shows herself to be competent several times.

Klavier was freaking awesome and he's NOTHING LIKE EDGEWORTH OR GODOT! I liked the laid-back prosecutor, one who was genuinely a nice guy without angst or dark pasts. Though it's probably true he's a....male Mary Sue? I still thought he was pretty cool.

Keeping Phoenix WAS a mistake but the dramatic character change from bungling attorney to mysterious hobo was to show how much he had changed. His entire life had went down the pan he's a little older and wiser I don't see how the fact he's not GS1-3 Phoenix is a downside.

Gumshoe was only in it briefly, I wouldn't make a proper statement about how much he'd changed since he always struck me as pretty determined to take Nick down in court if in spite of the fact he was certain Nick would win most of the time.

Spark and Ema are evil.


My advice give Apollo time. AJ1 was more like the final conclusion of the Phoenix Wright story, I've got high hopes for GS5 provided fanservice doesn't ruin it.

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Meh, I agree with you on most parts, but overall, I liked AJ.

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Apollo is a complete rookie.

The problem is, Phoenix was a complete rookie as well. The only difference between their performances in court is that Nick is an excellent bluffer. We forget this because he had much more confidence and experience in T&T, but he was not a very good attorney in PW:AA.

He managed to do some research in 1-2, but was incapable of taking White down without Mia. He could not find an obvious contradiction in Dee Vasquez testimony in 1-3 (and that one was HUGE, incredibly HUGE)! She would get away with it if Edgeworth wasn't there (just like Apollo is sometimes incapable of taking witnesses down without Klavier...).

And we can't forget his behavior in 1-4.

Maya, call Mia. Maya, please call Mia. Maya, I need your sister's help. Maya, call Mia for God's sake.

That was really annoying and rookie-ish.

Talking about Klavier... he did Mia's job in AJ:AA.

It's understandable, really. First, Apollo's mentor was arrested, so he couldn't do the job (and someone had to do it, because Apollo is suposed to be the rookie who needs assistance). Second, Trucy is most times as clueless as Apollo, so she couldn't do it either. Third, they didn't thought it would be good to repeat the "bad, mean" prosecutor stereotype again. Result? A nice prosecutor who is available to help the defense if he thinks the truth is with them.

Hobo Phoenix was indeed really different from the old Phoenix but, in my opinion, he is a more interesting character now.

Phoenix, before AJ, was a simple-minded, easygoing, likeable and sarcastic attorney. He was a simple character. Not much to explore here. But the idea we get of Phoenix Wright in AJ is



He is more human now, more flawed, and we can see this since the first case, when he uses corrupt methods to convict a killer. Well, in my opinion, he is overall a deeper character.

But I agree with you about 4-4.

I hope I was capable of exposing my opinions decently, because my english SUCKS.

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I have to quote this for truth. I completely agree with you; you took the words right from my keyboard.

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First of all, male Mary Sue = Gary Stu.

and GRRRRAAAAARGH KLAVIER IS HORRIBLE!! I don't mind him being laid back, I just hate how he was the one to solve the cases, not you!! Even if someone is giving Apollo the answers, when it's the prosecutor you don't feel like you've accomplished anything since the prosecutor basically just threw the case, you/Apollo didn't defeat him (and so you don't get the satisfaction of defeating him).

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I didn't liked the game as well.
Instead of making an complex analisy like you did, I'll (try to) put it simple why i didn't like it.

-No objection. Gotcha instead.
-No good plot. Graphics instead.

And the minigames? Oh God, if that's what I wanted I would go for Mario Party. But that was OK, because they were short. But the no-objection-thing-with-gotcha-instead kills. C'mon people, OBJECTION is the series flag! Oh, of course, I agree with yours points as well, but no need to re-state them, right?

I miss the GBA-looking-game that AA was. Graphics is nothing compared to plot.

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Erm really? Think again.

Thanks for the correction BP I could never remember what the correct term was unfortunately I'm still going to have to disagree and say I liked Klavier.

As for her Golden Eyes...

Phoenix solved 1-2 without Mia eh?
My understanding is that...

Phoenix: Mia?! *faints*

Then he overcomes the fact his dead mentor is talking to him

Mia: Oh by the way there's a list of people blackmailed on the back of that receipt I wrote down for you, say that you'll win.

Phoenix: ....Ok....Mr White I have here a list of names found inside the victim's office.

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Thats the way it seemed to me, Mia HANDING you the case.

But so what if Apollo isn't as good at bluffing, he wins without it.

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"Objection!" was still in this game.O_O "Gotcha" was added, but nothing was taken out.

Actually, Mia just told Phoenix to look at the receipt better-she never told him what was on it. And it wasn't a list of people White was blackmailing-it was the receipt for the glass stand in her office. But with that, Phoenix was able to prove that she bought it AFTER White claimed he saw it.

And that's something that always drives my crazy. People hate how Apollo is handed cases by Klavier and can't stand on his own, but they forget that Phoenix was the same way-especially in the first game. He was always relying on Mia or needed her to bail him out. Even in the last case of the series, he had Godot giving him a vital clue. Apollo himself notes that Klavier is always helping him too much, and he will most likely come to stand on his own more as the series progresses.

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I AGREE WITH DOTSDFE D:
Completely and utterly, on just about every point :D
*runs away*

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Fair enough point is Phoenix had overlooked that piece of evidence he'd had all along until Mia pointed it out.
Even then the prosecution does help Phoenix too. Edgeworth pressing Adrian hard because Phoenix didn't want to harm her already emotionally unstable situation. Godot baiting him onwards and onwards hinting subtly at the real killer even when the chance to end the trial was presented. Franziska bursting into the courtroom to provide final evidence and even tagging along with Nick as an investigative partner in T+T.

They ALWAYS recieve help, Phoenix wouldn't have gotten far without the Fey's giving his Magatama power anyway and Gumshoe clueing him in. I don't see anything wrong with Klavier helping the defense.

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Klavier is a good prosecutor. He's just not a particularly interesting rival.

Other than that I pretty much agree with dots. AJ was good, but not great like the first three games.

Adding to it, the luminol testing, fingerprinting, etc. worked a lot better in 1-5; it felt like it was actually integrated into the game and an important part of solving the case instead of just being a series of short minigames put into the investigations to break up the monotony.

As far as Mia helping Phoenix, yes she did that quite a bit and yes it got annoying, but at least she only showed up when Nick really got stuck. Apollo had his hand held through practically the entire game.

In the end, Apollo himself failed to interest me - he came off as a Phoenix-Lite. People have said 'Oh, it's only Apollo's first game, Phoenix had three to get awesome, give Polly a chance' and so on. Phoenix had me hooked by his first game and rushing to the game store to reserve the sequels as soon as pre-orders were available. If AJ were my first game, I'd probably pick up the sequels at some point. Maybe. I don't think I should have to play multiple games to start caring about the main character.

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Okay, everyone has had these gripes about the game from time to time. I, personally, think they're greatly exaggerated.

In 4-1, which was especially long for a first case, everyone says Phoenix practically did all the work for him. He only really stepped in once Apollo broke Olga, whom he took down all by himself. Second, He only gave subtle hints once the evidence was presented.

In 4-2, Trucy did only one thing before Apollo could. After she pointed out where the contradiction laid, Apollo figured the rest out. Also, Klavier would have pointed out that massive contradiction if he noticed it too.

In 4-3, they endlessly repeated the solution to your problem.

"If the shooter wasn't used to firing such a high caliber weapon, it could dislocate their shoulder." Disprove my logic, I dare you.

Also, I didn't think the video was shown that many times. Maybe it was because you were examining it in the court record for clues? Anyway, this is one case Apollo did on his own.

As for 4-4, I didn't care much for the jurist system either. This, however, is the only problem I see with the case. People say that Phoenix did too much, but most of his investigation had nothing to do with the murder of Drew Misham.

Klavier didn't really do any of the work for you, per se. In 4-2, he forced Alita's cross-examination to continue by asking what happened after she got KO'd. I don't really see anything else that he did in favor of the defense outside his speech in 4-4, but he was the only other person who knew the necessary information, so I, personally, am willing to let this pass.

As for the "bland" characters, I personally liked them. Apollo, Klavier, Plum, Wocky, Daryan, Vera, Spark, the new Phoenix... I liked them. This just seems to be a subjective opinion.

As for Trucy being a Maya clone? Every assistant tends to be immature and think in the wrong direction. Even However, being immature and thinking in the wrong direction are the only similarities I see.

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I'm sorry but I don't see why we need another of these threads. No one is saying anything that hasn't been said a million times on this board already. If you're that interested in continuing to complain about AJ take it to the Spoiler Discussion thread or something.

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