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| Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17604 |
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| Author: | LyingColdly [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
If the intro would've shown Gavin killing the dude? It came to me as a heavy shock and just a weird plottwist, losing your mentor like that within your first 60 minutes of playing. It would've been fun trying to figure out why and how it was Gavin before Apollo finds it out, like in 1-1 and 2-1 (I actually enjoyed knowing who it was, but still trying to figure out the real truth). Thoughts? |
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| Author: | Bad Player [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
The whole reason 4-1 is so amazing that because of 1-1, 2-1, and 3-1 you think Olga is the killer, and then right out of left field it's Gavin. If they showed it in the opening, all that would've been taken away. They also wouldn't had to have shown him in the secret passage, which so that wouldn't been revealed at the start, and you wouldn't need to figure out the "why" since we don't learn it until 4-4. |
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| Author: | Catgrenade [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
Bad Player wrote: The whole reason 4-1 is so amazing that because of 1-1, 2-1, and 3-1 you think Olga is the killer, and then right out of left field it's Gavin. If they showed it in the opening, all that would've been taken away. They also wouldn't had to have shown him in the secret passage, which so that wouldn't been revealed at the start, and you wouldn't need to figure out the "why" since we don't learn it until 4-4. This, although I didn't enjoy 4-1, due to the lack of spoiler tags on Wikipedia. |
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| Author: | KrazyKaro [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
Catgrenade wrote: Bad Player wrote: The whole reason 4-1 is so amazing that because of 1-1, 2-1, and 3-1 you think Olga is the killer, and then right out of left field it's Gavin. If they showed it in the opening, all that would've been taken away. They also wouldn't had to have shown him in the secret passage, which so that wouldn't been revealed at the start, and you wouldn't need to figure out the "why" since we don't learn it until 4-4. This, although I didn't enjoy 4-1, due to the lack of spoiler tags on Wikipedia. Thirded and yeah, Wikipedia needs to be spoilertagged like i already read the AAI spoliers by accident. 4-1 i HATE and the case should burn 4-5 was easier than it. It still confuses me to this day although i have a basic outline of what happened. And yeah 4-1 was he best starter case in my opion.. |
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| Author: | Marche Tobaye [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
^ Uh, 4-5 doesn't exist. I thought the case was perfectly fine for the reasons Bad Player stated. |
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| Author: | KrazyKaro [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
3-5 My bad. I'm stupid and yeah 4-1 is fine as! |
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| Author: | Akiak [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
I really liked 4-1, it's great as it is. I thought Olga was the true killer too at the beginning, even more when she took her disguise off. The big Gavin turnabout was great. Although I still prefer 3-1 as best first case, because of it being a flashback case with recurring characters. |
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| Author: | KrazyKaro [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
Akiak wrote: I really liked 4-1, it's great as it is. I thought Olga was the true killer too at the beginning, even more when she took her disguise off. The big Gavin turnabout was great. Although I still prefer 3-1 as best first case, because of it being a flashback case with recurring characters. 3-1 would have been my fave if 3-4 never existed. And in my slightly muked up world Olga was the killer. (I also think Gavins mini break at the end of 4-1 with the lobster pots was epic win) |
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| Author: | Akiak [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
KrazyKaro wrote: 3-1 would have been my fave if 3-4 never existed.) Why is that? 3-4 was such a mysterious emotional case... |
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| Author: | KrazyKaro [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
Akiak wrote: KrazyKaro wrote: 3-1 would have been my fave if 3-4 never existed.) Why is that? 3-4 was such a mysterious emotional case... No 3-4 kinda made me forget about 3-1 therefore i never bothered with 3-1 again so 4-1 become my favorite. |
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| Author: | DerekAMW [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
I personally loved Turnabout Trump. Best opening case yet. Flowed nicely from start to finish, well done testimony and cross-examination. If you didn't read the major spoilers then you'd be guessing in several directions for this being more than just a badly-gone poker game. It didn't seem rushed like Turnabout Corner. |
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| Author: | Croik [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
I think a lot of us going into the game already suspected that Kristoph would turn out to be guilty of *something,* but it was a shock having it happen right in the first case. I'm glad they didn't give it away before the case even started. |
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| Author: | Dani [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
I was surprised that Kristoph was the killer, even though he had oval glasses. Seriously, if someone has oval glasses in an anime, it means they're evil. Especially when they look down and the glasses reflect the light. |
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| Author: | Cyrus Vorazan [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
^True Personally, I think that in intros you shloudn't see faces of killers. GS is a quest of sorts, so there's got to be a big fat main secret with epic solving it. Ayup |
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| Author: | Lusankya [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
I already knew that Kristoph's was the main culprit (of case 4-4) and I was still surprised, when it turned out that he was also the culprit of case 4-1. For a first case 4-1 is really good, my personal favorite first case. |
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| Author: | SD-Rim_6 [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
I liked this case because even if they don't show the killer common Ace Attorney knowledge would tell us that the "witness" who takes the stand in the first case is always the killer. The fact that Olga was not the killer or accomplice REALLY shocked me |
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| Author: | Midnight Jasper [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
I liked it, but I would've enjoyed the whole case more if everything hadn't been so darn SURPRISING. AJ was the second game I played after T&T and I didn't know that much about it: I wasn't aware of the sudden time jump, the existence of HoboPhoenix, the existence of Trucy Wright, the mysterious non-existence of everyone else, the renovated courtroom, the perceive system... I'm not complaining, but it took me an age to get my head around it all. It gives you a lot to swallow in a short amount of time as well as trying to find the killer. It was also ridiculously hard trying to finger him as the "real murderer" because of some obscure line about blue-backed cards that I didn't even read properly anyway. That'll teach me to skip text in the future. Regardless, I do love playing 4-1 and since I hated Kristoph at the very beginning (ironically I like him a lot better now that I know he's pure evil) it was fun watching Phoenix own him while Apollo sat back and stared intently at Olga's neck. |
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| Author: | Karmi-Sempai [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
Nope. That would've given the whole thing away. I think it's even better that we get to find out about it later. Since it's the first case, you don't gain too much sympathy for Gavin so it's pretty easy to dump him into the hot seat. The very fact that your mentor might turn out to be the real killer is something more thrilling, if you ask me. |
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| Author: | Cravat of Doom [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
They should have shown Kristoph killing Shadi..... After he was proven guilty. THAT would have been cool. |
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| Author: | Karmi-Sempai [ Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
Cravat of Doom wrote: They should have shown Kristoph killing Shadi..... After he was proven guilty. THAT would have been cool. Now there's an interesting point! But then, Kristoph barely admits to anything. |
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| Author: | EvianBubble [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
Just finished playing it for the first time, I think it's probably the most confusing first case yet! Then again, the only other confusing first case was 3 - 1. I'm still quite a bit confused, actually. I didn't really think it was Olga but since the "main" witness is either the killer / accomplice in first cases ... well, let's just say it was a pleasant surprise. Phoenix was hilarious in this case XD. Also, OMGWTFBBQ HE HAS A DAUGHTER?!?!?! This is so wrong ... in so many ways ...! I mean, if he's 33, and his daughter's 15, that means ... at 18 ... *mind asplodes* |
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| Author: | Meenyman [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
Cravat of Doom wrote: They should have shown Kristoph killing Shadi..... After he was proven guilty. THAT would have been cool. Agreed, it would be very cool to see that murder happen!  That way, not only do you get to see the great scene, but you don't get spoilered from the game! |
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| Author: | Karmi-Sempai [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
EvianBubble wrote: Also, OMGWTFBBQ HE HAS A DAUGHTER?!?!?! This is so wrong ... in so many ways ...! I mean, if he's 33, and his daughter's 15, that means ... at 18 ... *mind asplodes* Spoiler: Phoenix's daughter... |
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| Author: | EvianBubble [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
Karmi-Sempai wrote: EvianBubble wrote: Also, OMGWTFBBQ HE HAS A DAUGHTER?!?!?! This is so wrong ... in so many ways ...! I mean, if he's 33, and his daughter's 15, that means ... at 18 ... *mind asplodes* Spoiler: Phoenix's daughter... I kind of suspected this, actually XD. Guess I was right! Off topic: Apollo had a moment where he thought almost exactly what I did at the beginning of 2 - 2 ... |
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| Author: | An89ty [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
LyingColdly wrote: If the intro would've shown Gavin killing the dude? .Nah  .Being serious now, I think it's best that they didn't decide to ruin the whole case for us by showing us who killed the victim in 4-1. The thing that annoyed me the most in the past games was how 'lazy' Capcom were by just showing us the Murderer at the start of the case in the old games. I mean seriously - why would we need to figure out 'why' they murdered that said person when we already know they were the Murderer? Is this Capcom's way of saying who's the 'not-so-mysterious' person who killed the victim in case 1-1? Oh, let's just a huge question mark over there head in future Ace Attorney games. It's not as if we'd find out who the Murderer is that way .Anyhow; yeah - I found it better that they didn't decide to 'show' us who exactly murdered Shadi Smith. Heck - even I thought it was Olga as well who murdered the person till I heard Phoenix accuse Kristoph being the Murderer. Just made me think "WTFH how could he be the killer if he's never seen the victim in his life?!" |
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| Author: | AoN [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
4-1, in my opinion, is the best first case. Unlike the previous games in which the first case is meant particularly to familiarize the player with the different tools of the game (which 4-1 also does), this case also introduces a new, mysterious aura that differentiates it from the other starting cases. Also, it both introduces the hardship that you can normally experience in an end case, of course made easier since it is a starting case, and is connected with all the later cases. It is, however, quite hard if you haven't played the previous games, and even with experience, it is a challenge. It's better played when you've done the previous games, so that it appears as a new twist and challenge and not as a very hard situation, even if it is the first case. My experience: AJ was actually the first game that I tried, but without the experience of the first three games, I was stumped during Olga's testimony. I didn't know what to do, because I didn't understand examining and presenting evidence and finding contradictions. I did get two or three out of her, but no more. Then, when I played PW 1-3, I learned almost everything that I needed, and quite enjoyed 4-1. |
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| Author: | P!ATD [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
angel_of_nature wrote: 4-1, in my opinion, is the best first case. Unlike the previous games in which the first case is meant particularly to familiarize the player with the different tools of the game (which 4-1 also does), this case also introduces a new, mysterious aura that differentiates it from the other starting cases. Also, it both introduces the hardship that you can normally experience in an end case, of course made easier since it is a starting case, and is connected with all the later cases. It is, however, quite hard if you haven't played the previous games, and even with experience, it is a challenge. It's better played when you've done the previous games, so that it appears as a new twist and challenge and not as a very hard situation, even if it is the first case. I completely agree, except I do think 3-1 also had a similar purpose, it introduced you to Dahlia and Diego, who were major characters when it came to finishing the Phoenix arc, and not just there to help you learn how to play the game. I think the starting games have seriously improved as the series went along.  I think 4-1 wouldn't have been as good if we saw Kristoph killing Shadi, because the mystery of 'who did it?' was what made this case so good. In saying that though, I would have loved to see Shadi Smith die. 
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| Author: | DerekAMW [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would 4-1 have been better.. (spoilers) |
I agree that it wouldn't have been as good if we saw Kristoph committing the homicide. I mean when you have to just guess at one point of the trial as to who you think the killer is, it just shows how far some killers will hide the truth and to what lengths the attorney and the disbarred hobo will do to get it. Even if it takes two trials. |
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