Board index » Phoenix Wright » Defendant's Lobby » The Hydeout (GS4)

Page 1 of 1[ 9 posts ]
 


SPOILERS: Apollo Justice Loose endsTopic%20Title

Trite

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:18 am

Posts: 23

Regarding Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, the general consensus from the boards I'm reading is "Good, but sloppy". I couldn't agree more. They made some good additions to the gameplay. Investigating things scientifically with Ema is a great addition and is a welcome replacement to the absence of the clownish antics of Dick Gumshoe. Where gameplay was enhanced, the writing suffered.

The original Phoenix Wright had a good attention to detail. An insignificant utterance can have a deep impact to the progression of the story. Every detail has a how, why, and most importantly a consequence. Such seemed not the case in Apollo Justice.


Spoiler:
So I gotta ask the following because maybe I missed it. Why did Zak want to destroy Phoenix's poker reputation in Case 1? It is later revealed in Case 4 that he visits Phoenix for a favor to pass on the Performance Rights to Trucy. It was also revealed that he had nothing but admiration for Phoenix's poker playing skills. Given those revelations, it just seems so out of character... especially him hitting Olga with a freaking bottle.


Spoiler:
How did the keys end up in Romein's hands? Daryan stole them, but they never revealed how they got into Romein's hands. Why would Daryan shoot Romein after he disposed of the cocoons?


Spoiler:
What was the "spell" Kristoph had over Vera? Please don't tell me it was the damn nail polish. What about the hidden drawings behind the forgeries? It is revealed that each drawing depicts events related to each of Apollo's cases. My theory is that Drew Misham was so elated that Apollo put Kristoph behind bars that he wanted to give tributes to he would be his unknowing savior. But maybe I missed something. Why was Drew still writing to Kristoph? Who tried to kidnap Vera? What's with Kristoph's devil scar?


Regarding these, the game stinks of being rushed to meet a deadline. It is evident that the cases, especially case 4, had the grounds to be interesting and very complex, but were compromised because someone wanted the game out the door and ready to ship. Given that if true, I had some theories as to how they were supposed to be.

Case 1
Spoiler:
Possibly in an original draft I wouldn't doubt the last poker game was over whether or not Zak can have Trucy back. Zak wanted Trucy so that he may personally pass on the works of Magnifi onto her her. Phoenix would probably object to this seeing how Zak is still a fugitive and a fugitive lifestyle is not the best for her. They would settle it with poker. Phoenix would have put custody over Trucy at stake in exchange for Zak putting up the surrendering the performance rights over to Trucy. Zak wanted to win no matter what, so he resorted to fixing the game. This would not only win back Trucy, but would tarnish Phoenix's name and thus shake the trust Trucy had for her new daddy. This of course would paint Zak in a new light, as more of a bad guy. Personally I wouldn't doubt that was the original intent for Zak, given his design and suspicious back story.


Case 3
Spoiler:
In all honesty, Case 4 should have been saved for a later game. Case 3 on the other hand should have been case 4. They could have gone as far as having Klavier as a defendant for smuggling cocoons (gasp not murder this time) with Daryan framing him for it. This would have still made some allusions that Lamiroir was Apollo and Trucy's mother. Like make it an observation that only Phoenix has noticed. This was not what I think it was, but how I thought it should've been. That's just me though. I'm sure many would beg to disagree.


Case 4
Spoiler:
Ok well what's done is done, case 4 is still case 4 and there's nothing I can do to stop it from being case 4 still. As I said before Case 4 seems to have had a lot of grounds for what seems like a very deep and involving case. My theories? Kristoph's involvement in this story is far from over. The scar will lead to a deeper story between the Gavin brothers which was probably intended to be developed in this Case. The Misham's story is likely not over yet either. I won't say they are blood related, but I wouldn't doubt Vera shares the same "talents" as Trucy and Apollo. Hence why she is so good at forging and why people can almost feel her hard stare. Vera's mother will lead on to another arc of the story. Perhaps she is in somewhat ways associated with Lamiroir and Apollo's father. Brushell will be in the middle of this as a recurring character, much like Larry Butz and Lotta Hart were. Likely there were more acts involved, the development team probably ran out of time and rushed it. Sad. That case had so much potential.
As for the Jurist system? To me I wouldn't doubt that this was a failed gameplay mechanic already implemented into the story and it was practically too late to write around it. I wouldn't doubt the Jurist system was for ALL cases and rather having a life bar or the penalty system, you'd be rated on your performance and right and wrong decisions would be ambiguous. You wouldn't know how well you're doing until the verdict. Naturally that would be a clash between the programmers and the writers. The writers would have to multiply their workload to write for every contingent.
Re: SPOILERS: Apollo Justice Loose endsTopic%20Title
User avatar

I know, Wright?

Gender: Female

Location: Helluva-fax, New Scottishland

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:50 pm

Posts: 806

I noticed some of that too, but I'm probably way too forgiving because I love Ace Attorney too much to be disappointed in it.

One of the things that bugged me the most was that
Spoiler: 4-4
everything that happened was the result of a matter of pride. Kristoph was a good villain, but it was annoying how shallow his motive was.

I know the answer to this one, but the game didn't specifically explain it:
Spoiler: 4-1
Olga testifies that Nick stole Shadi/Zak's locket, but it never says why. He probably took it to ensure that no one found out that Zak Gramarye had returned, but still. Nick had no reason to take it before Zak was murdered, yet he allegedly leaps across the table and attacks him for it. Wtf? Is he that desperate for pictures of mini-Trucy?

It also never really explained why
Spoiler: 4-4
Drew Misham used the poisoned stamp to send that letter to Kristoph, or how he knew to send it to Kristoph in the first place (he never met the client). He doesn't have any stamps in his drawer, so he uses his daughter's treasured commemorative stamp? I find that hard to believe.

In response to yours,

Spoiler: 4-1
Him hitting Olga with the bottle is really out of character, I'll give you that, but I don't think Shadi/Zak was specifically out to destroy Nick's reputation. I have a really awful memory, but I'm pretty sure it explains somewhere.

Spoiler: 4-3
The keys were in Romein's hand because Daryan planted them there to make it seem like the murder was following the song to secure his alibi. Augh, run-on sentences ftl.


I really wish we knew what was with Kristoph's scar, too. It's creepy and probably had a really awesome story behind it.

But on the other hand, loose ends make for endless fanon possibilities. Some blanks were probably left intentionally to either be filled by fans or solved in GS5.
Image
Re: SPOILERS: Apollo Justice Loose endsTopic%20Title
User avatar

spr fckn srs peepz

Gender: Male

Location: Boucherville, Quebec, Canada

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:34 pm

Posts: 2422

Marshmello wrote:
It also never really explained why
Spoiler: 4-4
Drew Misham used the poisoned stamp to send that letter to Kristoph, or how he knew to send it to Kristoph in the first place (he never met the client). He doesn't have any stamps in his drawer, so he uses his daughter's treasured commemorative stamp? I find that hard to believe.

Spoiler:
If you notice the envelope, it's written to another name. The post office then transferred it into a P.O. Box that probably happened to be Kristoph Gavin's. Also, no, it's not all that hard to believe. People make stupid mistakes.

http://vanderlund.blogspot.com - Because the only fantasy worlds I like are those I write myself.
Re: SPOILERS: Apollo Justice Loose endsTopic%20Title
User avatar

Dan Hibiki > All.

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:46 am

Posts: 99

Writing something good isn't too hard; the main difficulty is maintaining a high quality of writing.

Corporations will often rush series for profits, especially on winter shopping rushes. Here's hoping that GS5 gets the extra attention it deserves.
Image

This one's by Elriel! Can't thank you enough!
Re: SPOILERS: Apollo Justice Loose endsTopic%20Title

Pierce the Heavens with your finger!

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:53 pm

Posts: 4

Yeah, the end was disappointing. I mean...
Spoiler: 4-4
the 4th case was highly promising, and until the MASON thing ended it was awesome in both structure, plot devices and surprises. But the last trial was the most shallow ending trial I've been for any of the cases in any game of these series.

There weren't last minute surprises worthy of a such an important case plot-wise, it was pretty much straightforward, you got everything learned from the MASON and it didn't deviated from what you saw before. A short and disappointing final trial.


Case 3 had the shit-bricking twists I want a final case to deliver.
Re: SPOILERS: Apollo Justice Loose endsTopic%20Title
User avatar

Lifesmith

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:47 am

Posts: 11

Asianwaste wrote:
Case 4
Spoiler:
Ok well what's done is done, case 4 is still case 4 and there's nothing I can do to stop it from being case 4 still. As I said before Case 4 seems to have had a lot of grounds for what seems like a very deep and involving case. My theories? Kristoph's involvement in this story is far from over. The scar will lead to a deeper story between the Gavin brothers which was probably intended to be developed in this Case. The Misham's story is likely not over yet either. I won't say they are blood related, but I wouldn't doubt Vera shares the same "talents" as Trucy and Apollo. Hence why she is so good at forging and why people can almost feel her hard stare. Vera's mother will lead on to another arc of the story. Perhaps she is in somewhat ways associated with Lamiroir and Apollo's father. Brushell will be in the middle of this as a recurring character, much like Larry Butz and Lotta Hart were. Likely there were more acts involved, the development team probably ran out of time and rushed it. Sad. That case had so much potential.
As for the Jurist system? To me I wouldn't doubt that this was a failed gameplay mechanic already implemented into the story and it was practically too late to write around it. I wouldn't doubt the Jurist system was for ALL cases and rather having a life bar or the penalty system, you'd be rated on your performance and right and wrong decisions would be ambiguous. You wouldn't know how well you're doing until the verdict. Naturally that would be a clash between the programmers and the writers. The writers would have to multiply their workload to write for every contingent.


Couldn't agree more.

Case 4 Spoilers
Spoiler:
I was under the impression from the beginning of the game that the Jurist system would be more of a gameplay mechanic. Unfortunately, it turned out to be more of a plot device of sorts. My only problem with that, aside from the fact that it was kind of a weak plot device, is that it was implemented well enough this time around to really get me excited about it's inclusion in GS5, unless it has some major effect on the game as a whole.
In fact, I was kind of left with more of a feeling of "wow. The jury system is kind of a buzz kill".
When Apollo was left hanging without credible evidence at the end of the game, I was getting amped to figure out how we prove the existence of the Yellow Letter, just as we did the stamp. But it was more like "Nope. No need. This is the JURIST SYSTEM.". Which came off more like lazy writing than an interesting plot twist.



However, there is word that the jurist system was possibly a commentary on
the changeover of the IRL Japanese judicial system to include Juries. These kind of things I normally find to be really interesting, but again, it was poorly delivered. Leave the IRL social commentary to Metal Gear Solid.

Another issue that seemed to be more of a case of either rushed or lazy writing was the aspect of
(Case 4 spoilers, again)
Spoiler:
Drew Misham's paintings, which were discovered to have rough sketches underneath them of Apollo's cases. That was a really great cliffhanger to leave us on before heading into the Mason System chapter, which was never really satisfied by the end of the game. Perhaps I missed it, but as far as I'm concerned it was never properly explored. That would be fine if GS was a series that prides itself on ambiguous plot twists that are left open-ended, but it's never been like that and it's a little too late to start.


Last edited by AmIDoinItRite on Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: SPOILERS: Apollo Justice Loose endsTopic%20Title
User avatar

Robo-Aly

Gender: Female

Location: Vancouver

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:14 am

Posts: 1019

Hrm I just finished it and I agree with some of these loose ends.

Spoiler:
I really would have liked to see a reunion type of thing or something involving Trucy, Apollo, and their mother. I felt like everything ended so quickly and there were a lot of things that weren't explained >.<

Although, the first time I saw a photo of Thalassa, I knew that she was Lamiroir. The whole accident causing her blindness and her amnesia. Plus the fact that they look identical. Characters in AA tend to not look very similar for no reason :P

Image
Re: SPOILERS: Apollo Justice Loose endsTopic%20Title
User avatar

Hey, pal!

Gender: Male

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:04 pm

Posts: 183

Spoiler: Case 4
Kristoph's Scar
Thralassa meeting her Children
The drawings under the forgeries
What on Earth the Mason system is
How Phoenix took Nail Polish he got in the future to show to Vera (Seriously. What. The. Fuck?)
Actually while we're on the above, how did he know Kristoph was- you know what. Forget it, the Mason system was awesome but chock full of plot holes.
What the hold over Vera was...

basically half of Case 4 :(
Image
Siggy by Vickinator. Who is amazing
Re: SPOILERS: Apollo Justice Loose endsTopic%20Title
User avatar

"So close..."

Gender: Female

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:10 am

Posts: 89

Spoiler: 4-3
They should have let Machi go after seeing the murder weapon and how Machi's arms were still attached and not broken, dislocated or hurting what-so-ever.

Image

Thanks, Vickinator!
Page 1 of 1 [ 9 posts ] 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

 Board index » Phoenix Wright » Defendant's Lobby » The Hydeout (GS4)

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  
cron
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
Powered by phpBB

phpBB SEO