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Phoenix needs Mia...
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It's the best explanation behind his change given how Phoenix's personality and demeanor was at the end of Ace Attorney 3 (full of confidence and a firm understanding of his purpose and place in the world). What happened to him would probably shake anyone but if Mia was there, he probably wouldn't have let it hang over his head and he'd have done more to pull himself up.
In other words he wouldn't have taken seven years to finally sort himself out and put his demons to rest the way he did in this game.
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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As for seven years, he didn't wait that long because of his inner demons. From the Mason System, we could tell that he was piecing things together already, and he knew who caused his disbarment. He wasn't frustrated. He just needed to wait for Kristoph to slip up. It just so happened everything from seven years ago finally caught up with him, beginning from 4-1. The other example of this would be the Mishams being poisoned in 4-4. As implied, Kristoph was playing roulette with their lives, and it just so happened he finally got them after seven years. Phoenix felt this was coming, but he knew he didn't have decisive evidence to prove his guilt. So in the background, he set something up and pushed for a new court order so that Kristoph wouldn't be able to get away from his crimes: the Jurist System.
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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It's Phoenix's laid-back attitude that's so striking. Contrasting with his vigor and spirit at the end of Ace Attorney 3, it's like he lost his will to fight and resigned himself to whatever life fate would throw his way. Outwardly, he speaks like a guy with a cool head and someone who's in control but the vibe I got from his internal motivations was more like a man who was living this way because he couldn't forgive himself.
EDIT: I'm reminded of Mia's profile in 3-5. Phoenix describes her as his "eternal mentor in law and life." If you take that into account, he really did need Mia to show him the way forward. He is kind of dependent but Mia is also a wise and honorable person so relying on her guidance would probably have spared him seven years of being a recluse.
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Spoiler:
So she wasn't always off to the side. I feel like she kind of took Apollo's spotlight a bit too. And at the end, she did help you explain things, I believe she and Apollo were finishing off each other's sentences at that point.
But I agree, she is one of my favorite characters in that game.
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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I honestly don't get this topic. What exactly is so bad about having people you can rely on to help you when you need it the most? That's one of the lessons Phoenix learns in 2-4.
Also, I fear this is turning into another "Phoenix vs Apollo" topic, let's try to leave Apollo out of this discussion, okay?
Quote:
In other words he wouldn't have taken seven years to finally sort himself out and put his demons to rest the way he did in this game.
I think you're missing the point of Phoenix's role in AJ. It wasn't that he didn't want to do anything about what happened, it was that he couldn't. He had been on the investigation for seven years, bidding his time until the opportunity came for him to clear his name. The Phoenix we saw for the majority of the game was a facade, a mask for his true feelings.
That's a major problem I see with the subject of Phoenix in AJ, the fans take him too much at face value, judging his character entirely on how he acted in the first case, when in reality everything he did in that case was part of his plan to convict Kristoph. 4-4 shows us he's still very much the same person on the inside. He seriously misses being an attorney, and he still has that idealistic drive to help people. This is one of the reasons I want him to reclaim his badge in the next game, so people can stop acting like he's gone a total 180 and actually see his true self.
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Ok sure he lost his badge....there's no indication that he hadn't lost cases before, in fact I think Maya at one point implies he's lost at least one case off screen round about the time of the Furio Tigre incident.
If Mia had been with him in that case there's very little evidence she could have saved him. The document was a wonderful forgery, only identifiable by Drew's own touch Mia would have no information about it, sure she might have cottoned on to who exactly was responsible for the forgery but Nick managed that on his own. Previously Mia had information (about Godot about Dahlia about Kurain tradition) but she could have no way of saving Nick in this situation.
The fact Nick took action and planned such an intricate trap for Kristoph indicates he is now a competent independent individual.
As the Mason system indicates he took action IMMEDIATELY after his disbarment investigating what had truly happened. Some lesser men would turn to the pub, drown their sorrows in alcohol or fall into a depression at the loss of their life's work. Nick picked up the pieces straight away and worked out a plan to exact his revenge.
If anything Nick is a psychologically-healthy non-dependent competent individual who doesn't need Mia to tie his shoelaces and kiss his bobo's.
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Phoenix likes being seen as capable and independent or in charge a lot of the time, and seems to not like losing face and doesn't seem especially good at asking for help. Yes, he does rely on others, but he doesn't say "Please help me"-- he's almost sneaky in the way he gets information out of people a lot of the time. And on the occasions where he has been helped (ie. when Miles returned in JFA), that wasn't because he requested assistance.
I think once he realised how stupid he was and how easily set up he was, pride (as well as practicality-- I got a strong sense Mia wasn't coming back post T&T) and a sense of "Okay, I fucked things up, I have to make it right" was what left him fighting with the resources he had on hand rather than relying on the Feys.
IMHO, he needed to prove himself like that without assistance. You know when you sometimes just have to do things by yourself, and afterwards, you have a sense of "I did this?" I think that was Phoenix's.
EDIT: Another point, which I don't think has been raised: I don't think Phoenix was abandoned by the Feys, but I think given what went down at Kurain, for them to return to their "safe place," and for Miles to go overseas... it was how they handled what was essentially a traumatic situation. And seven years is a long time: I'm sure all of us have had the experience of losing contact with a friend and then time and other day-to-day mundanities getting in the way of rebuilding the friendship/seeing what's going on with someone.
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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My goal with my second playthrough of Apollo Justice is to really cut down to the core of that. My focus is on Phoenix this time around and seeing if I can read into his emotions and discover what makes him tick now and maybe what went through his mind between the two games.
...
Maybe then my fanfiction will feel complete...
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
I have my own beliefs on what Phoenix's character endured between Ace Attorney 3 and Ace Attorney 4.
My goal with my second playthrough of Apollo Justice is to really cut down to the core of that. My focus is on Phoenix this time around and seeing if I can read into his emotions and discover what makes him tick now and maybe what went through his mind between the two games.
...
Maybe then my fanfiction will feel complete...
My goal with my second playthrough of Apollo Justice is to really cut down to the core of that. My focus is on Phoenix this time around and seeing if I can read into his emotions and discover what makes him tick now and maybe what went through his mind between the two games.
...
Maybe then my fanfiction will feel complete...
All your really gonna need is case 1 and case 4.
Case 4 was enough for me to make my deduction on how Nick felt during his absence from court.
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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He also knew that evidence (the piece of paper which was forged) was strangely SO obvious, he was nervous, it was his only hope due to the law system in that time, he HAD to have decisive evidence...
I think that was the whole the point in that case.. when you get so successful you get enemies, who'd have known it was Kristoph who dared to do that to poor Mr. Wright..
he couldn't have done anything to Kristoph while the system was the same, it took several years, but at last, he could clean his name with a lil Justice.
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
EDIT: I'm reminded of Mia's profile in 3-5. Phoenix describes her as his "eternal mentor in law and life." If you take that into account, he really did need Mia to show him the way forward. He is kind of dependent but Mia is also a wise and honorable person so relying on her guidance would probably have spared him seven years of being a recluse.
He wasn't a recluse, he was a single father trying to raise a rambunctious daughter. Poker at Borscht sure didn't seem glamorous, but he was doing what he had to in order to support his new family. With his badge gone it's not like he could get a job anywhere in law, and his major before that was in the arts--not the career path you can gamble on when you have a kid to look after. Maybe he could have done better, but if he's working and the money is enough for him and Trucy to live on, isn't that proof enough that he's doing the responsible thing?
I'm not sure what having dead Mia around would change. Maybe she could convince him to shave! But it's not like she could get him a better job (unless she used her boob power to sway some supervisor) or solve the Kristoph case any faster than Phoenix.
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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I'll revisit this once I beat Ace Attorney 4 (if I do; given that Investigations is almost out).
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Which interested me, because then I was thinking about AJ and wondering if she was still hanging around like that or not (my gut feeling is that no, she wasn't, and that T&T suggested at the end that she had gone off to wherever rested spirits of dead lawyers go) and seeing stuff that went down post-T&T.
I don't know what she could have done, either,
Spoiler: 4-4
Phoenix was kind of screwed regardless of who might have tried intervening, IMHO. He had to fight his way out himself. (Yes, he had assistance, but ultimately a lot of his success came down to figuring people out and, well, utilising them.)
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Phoenix obviously needed Mia anyway. First case he took without a Fey (or Ema) in his corner and he lost his license.
Bwahahha. Im kinda late but that made me LOL. Probably becuase i just realised it's true.
~
Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Spoiler: 4-4
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Karmi-Sempai wrote:
True. Where is he all this time? Hopefully, we'll get answers in GS5.
Rather....we won't.
I'd like AJ2 to be ALOT more Apollo centric with only implied cameos like there was in AJ1.
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Spoiler: Already leaning into AJ 2...
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Karmi-Sempai wrote:
Spoiler: Already leaning into AJ 2...
You don't think it'll be easy? It's a simple matter of NOT MENTIONING THEM AND AVOIDING TOO MANY REFERENCES TO OLD CASES. They have to go OUT of their way to write them in. Ema is fine I suppose seeing as she's almost a completely different person and Phoenix can be fine so long as they don't write a story around him now but I don't see any reason for them to include others or why it'd be difficult.
Yes the fans may cry and whine but fanbases are absolutely ridiculous and unsatisfiable.
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Spoiler: Leaning into AJ2
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Karmi-Sempai wrote:
Spoiler: Leaning into AJ2
Last game of the series? Says who?
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Spoiler: Leaning into AJ2/GS5
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Karmi-Sempai wrote:
Spoiler: Leaning into AJ2/GS5
This FAKE rumor originated on a Chinese msg board and is not true.
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Re: Phoenix needs Mia...
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Phoenix obviously needed Mia anyway. First case he took without a Fey (or Ema) in his corner and he lost his license.
Obviously it should be Maya as the defence attorney and Phoenix as the side-kick.
But yeah. Phoenix did have some talent but if it hadn't been for Mia in a lot of instances, he would have been screwed.
Watch me as I gravitate...ahahaha
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