Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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briemoo wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4 
Drew was the one who drew the portraits. Not Vera. He probably just wanted to leave a "secret" in all of his forgeries. And in the flashback, he stated that he (vera) left a watermark in each of his paintings/works. That could have been what he meant.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler:
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Herr Fraulein wrote:
The painting thing bugged me too. They just never explain why
Spoiler:
Spoiler: Case 4-4
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
Kýrie eléison
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Bad Player wrote:
Croik wrote:
Vagrant wrote:
I don't mean to sound like a gun nut. (I'm British, for crying out loud)
I hate to say it, but I wonder if the whole "this is a MASIVE GUN that even a TRAINED COP COULDN'T HANDLE" is a product of it being written in Japan. Guns are not nearly so prevalent there as overseas so maybe they just assumed that a big guy like LeTouse would use a big gun and exaggerated its effects. Just speculation.
Ironically, if they had left well enough alone, no one would have assumed there should be a kickback injury, and there'd be no contradiction.
Well, they wanted it to be some gigantic uber-powerful gun. I know absolutey nothing about guns (except that they shoot bullets... and have rifling marks (thanks 1-4! :D)) but I think what's important is that they wanted the gun to be powerful and have a high kickback, not if they named it a gun that is actually like that IRL. (I'd think it would be more of a "cough up" than "contradiction.")
There are pistols in real life, like the Desert Eagle of Matrix fame, that are so powerful and have such a high kickback that they are simply too impractical for use as standard-issue police and military sidearms. It is perfectly realistic that cops who are trained in handling low-recoil "pea-shooter" pistols would not be skilled in shooting something much heavier (and more inconvenient to use) like LeTouse's giant-ass revolver or the Desert Eagle.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Cohdopia Over All wrote:
There are pistols in real life, like the Desert Eagle of Matrix fame, that are so powerful and have such a high kickback that they are simply too impractical for use as standard-issue police and military sidearms. It is perfectly realistic that cops who are trained in handling low-recoil "pea-shooter" pistols would not be skilled in shooting something much heavier (and more inconvenient to use) like LeTouse's giant-ass revolver or the Desert Eagle.
But .45 caliber is nowhere near the power of a magnum like a Desert Eagle. .45 is an average handgun ammunition. It's considerably bigger than a small .22, but not enough so that it would cause anyone trained in firearms to injure themselves shooting.
LeTouse's "giant-ass revolver" fired the same kind of rounds as the American standard-issue sidearm in WWII.
I'd point you in the direction of this for difference between 50AE Desert Eagle ammo and .45 ammunition. (even with the huge difference between .22 and .45)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cartr ... arison.jpg
So, yeah.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Vagrant wrote:
But .45 caliber is nowhere near the power of a magnum like a Desert Eagle.
.45 is an average handgun ammunition. It's considerably bigger than a small .22, but not enough so that it would cause anyone trained in firearms to injure themselves shooting.
.45 is an average handgun ammunition. It's considerably bigger than a small .22, but not enough so that it would cause anyone trained in firearms to injure themselves shooting.
Maybe Daryan is just a pussy, CONTRADICTION SOLVED
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler: Case 2
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Xray wrote:
Spoiler: Case 2
Spoiler: spoiler
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
Hello, Adrian.
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Vagrant wrote:
Xray wrote:
Spoiler: Case 2
Spoiler: spoiler
Spoiler:
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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4-1
Also, I guess not a contradiction but more an oddity: Apollo says he's heard of the incident 7 years ago, it was all over the news etc. yet he doesn't know the details (even Ema seemed to know more about it), and this is coming from a guy who read all of Nick's old cases. Wouldn't he have read that last case (the most famous one, according to the Media anyway) as well?
4-2
The car hit
, sent him flying 30 feet, and his head hit a pole, yet he injured his ankle.. does he have some weird anatomy?4-3
LeTouse's death: he was found lying on his stomach bleeding to death, which would suggest that he was shot from behind, right? This would maybe explain why he didn't name his killer to Apollo (although I like the theory of him not actually knowing Daryan or have time to describe him). But that raises another contradiction: wasn't there a struggle since Daryan had to have taken LeTouse's gun? If so, why was LeTouse facing away from Daryan?
Even if we assume Daryan maybe stole the gun ahead of time (maybe LeTouse put it down somewhere), and there was no struggle, Daryan just snuck up on LeTouse from behind, that doesn't work either. LeTouse fell facing the door, which is the only exit big enough for Daryan to go through, so he's closer to the door than Daryan was. Furthermore, there wasn't much room between LeTouse and the far wall (from the door), so I don't see where Daryan would have been hiding.
At first I thought the window had something to do with it, but the window was closed, and there was no bullet holes...
Also, why did Daryan order Machi to burn the guitar (with the cocoon)? If he already got rid of the person coming after the cocoon, why did they feel the need to destroy it (instead of taking it out after the show and doing whatever they were planning to do with it)? Machi was caught and sent to detention, but Daryan was free at that point, and even had excuse to examine the guitar. Was it just to make the crimes fit the lyrics so they think the killing was at the wrong time?
4-4
It's not totally unbased to think that Nick's old friends abandoned him. I realise that Not showing up =/= abandoned, but this is what Phoenix says after adopting Trucy (copied from the script)
"To be honest, I was pretty lost those first few days. Thinking back on it, it was a pretty dark time in my life. But Trucy... happy, smiling Trucy... she was my light."From that, it seems as if he was all alone after losing his badge, 'cept for Trucy. Add to the fact that during his review with the Bar Association, only Kristoph stood up for him. Where were his allies? You'd think Gumshoe or Edgeworth or even Lana would try to pull some strings and help him somehow... Or is the Bar Association only defense lawyers? If that's the case, what about Grossberg? Was Nick too ashamed to go to his friends for help? Did his friends really abandon him? I doubt that, since all the help they gave him in 3-5.
I guess a explanation could be that 4-4 was played through the MASON system and not actually Phoenix, and thus Nick didn't feel the need to show the jury (and thus the player) people that don't relate to the case, but it still felt a bit retconned to me...
Yet after disbarring him for 7 years, they not only let Phoenix participate, but set up the Jurist System (choosing the case, prosecution, defense, court, judge etc).. they're giving a disbarred lawyer full power over the system, yeah... Nick must've really been famous (or Edgey or Lana helped pull some strings). Chessmaster
?
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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In the Japanese version, there is a picture of young!Trucy. I dunno why they changed it... maybe they really didn't want to spoil us about young!Trucy. Anyway, maybe he got an updated pic from the Wonder Bar's website? xD
Polly is a slow reader and writer... Remember how at the beginning of 4-4 it had been months since 4-3, but he hadn't finished writing it? xD Anyway, it's more for the purpores of the story, since the conversation "Do you know what happened?" "Yeah" "kk" wouldn't have helped the audience. However, considering how it touched upon the subject of forged evidence, which the police department and prosecutor's office really didn't like, they could've kept a lot of details under wraps.
4-2:
That's the whole point :P
4-3:
LeTouse and Daryan struggle, and maybe the arrangement, with LeTouse facing the door and Daryan behind him, could've happened b/c of the struggle; anything is possible from the struggle, since we know nothing about it xD
And Daryan wanted the cocoons burned b/c now Interpol would focus on the case even more, and if the cocoons were discovered it would be really bad.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
4-1:
In the Japanese version, there is a picture of young!Trucy. I dunno why they changed it... maybe they really didn't want to spoil us about young!Trucy. Anyway, maybe he got an updated pic from the Wonder Bar's website? xD
In the Japanese version, there is a picture of young!Trucy. I dunno why they changed it... maybe they really didn't want to spoil us about young!Trucy. Anyway, maybe he got an updated pic from the Wonder Bar's website? xD
Strange... in my game, I see an 8-year-old Trucy, not 15-year-old Trucy. Do I have a different English version of the game or something? I've been wondering ever since I saw the locket of 15-year-old Trucy on the site.
Bad Player wrote:
4-2:
That's the whole point :P
That's the whole point :P
I read a fic where Mia was the one who saved him from the hit-and-run. Also another fic where Mia saved Phoenix from death when he fell into the water in 3-5. I really like this theory. Or, Phoenix is just so darn lucky! His name really is something, huh?
Anything can happen in the Ace Attorney world. :D
Bad Player wrote:
4-3:
LeTouse and Daryan struggle, and maybe the arrangement, with LeTouse facing the door and Daryan behind him, could've happened b/c of the struggle; anything is possible from the struggle, since we know nothing about it xD
And Daryan wanted the cocoons burned b/c now Interpol would focus on the case even more, and if the cocoons were discovered it would be really bad.
LeTouse and Daryan struggle, and maybe the arrangement, with LeTouse facing the door and Daryan behind him, could've happened b/c of the struggle; anything is possible from the struggle, since we know nothing about it xD
And Daryan wanted the cocoons burned b/c now Interpol would focus on the case even more, and if the cocoons were discovered it would be really bad.
I was wondering about that, too, when I was replying this case today. I couldn't see how the bullet holes hit the left wall, and LeTouse was near the right wall facing the door. But yeah... your logic makes sense. We really don't know how the struggle was like. For all we know, Daryan could have rearranged the crime scene.
And here is another contradiction from 4-3. Lamiroir couldn't have been the accomplice, yes. But when Apollo tried to prove that, he talked about how the 30-feet range isn't far enough when the thingy rose with Klavier and the Lamiroir stand-in (Valant Gramayre - who knows how he managed to pull that off?). It seems that Apollo was talking about the Lamiroir stand-in, not Lamiroir, herself. Unless, Valant is a Borginian, which isn't true. The real Lamiroir was above the ceiling when the remote was pressed, so she could have been the accomplice.
I hope that made sense.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Alice wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
4-1:
In the Japanese version, there is a picture of young!Trucy. I dunno why they changed it... maybe they really didn't want to spoil us about young!Trucy. Anyway, maybe he got an updated pic from the Wonder Bar's website? xD
In the Japanese version, there is a picture of young!Trucy. I dunno why they changed it... maybe they really didn't want to spoil us about young!Trucy. Anyway, maybe he got an updated pic from the Wonder Bar's website? xD
Strange... in my game, I see an 8-year-old Trucy, not 15-year-old Trucy. Do I have a different English version of the game or something? I've been wondering ever since I saw the locket of 15-year-old Trucy on the site.
Oops, sorry, I just replayed the case, and the photo was of young!Trucy, so nevermind >__< (bad memory is bad DX)
and lol, Phoenix's body is indestructible!
Anyway, something else that came up in 4-1 while I was replaying, when
gets convicted at the end, he says: "Is... this your idea of revenge, Phoenix Wright? Revenge for the events that took away your attorney's badge seven years ago!?"Why would Kristoph say that at that point? This was before Nick went to investigate him in his prison cell during MASON. Sure Kristoph knows Nick had his suspicions, but saying "revenge for losing badge seven years ago" would imply Kristoph had something to do with it, thus Kristoph just admitted to having a hand in Nick losing his badge. He wouldn't do that since he took such precautions to not put suspicion on himself regarding that case (poison time bombs on the Mishims, killing Zak etc).....
Alice wrote:
And here is another contradiction from 4-3. Lamiroir couldn't have been the accomplice, yes. But when Apollo tried to prove that, he talked about how the 30-feet range isn't far enough when the thingy rose with Klavier and the Lamiroir stand-in (Valant Gramayre - who knows how he managed to pull that off?). It seems that Apollo was talking about the Lamiroir stand-in, not Lamiroir, herself. Unless, Valant is a Borginian, which isn't true. The real Lamiroir was above the ceiling when the remote was pressed, so she could have been the accomplice.
Apollo's point was that at the time the igniter in
's guitar went off, Lamiroir was in the air vent above the dressing room (since she heard Daryan say "press the switch"). Her position in the vent could have reached the stage because it was within 30feet of the stage. However, at that point in the performance, Klavier and the stand-in (Valant) were on the raised platform when the shooter made the transmission. The platform was raised to 15feet above the actual stage, meaning that at the moment the remote went off, Klavier's guitar would've been out of the real Lamiroir's range. So only Machi, who was on stage at the time, could have reached. Valant was also on the stage, but he's not Borginian.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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MapleRose wrote:
Alice wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
4-1:
In the Japanese version, there is a picture of young!Trucy. I dunno why they changed it... maybe they really didn't want to spoil us about young!Trucy. Anyway, maybe he got an updated pic from the Wonder Bar's website? xD
In the Japanese version, there is a picture of young!Trucy. I dunno why they changed it... maybe they really didn't want to spoil us about young!Trucy. Anyway, maybe he got an updated pic from the Wonder Bar's website? xD
Strange... in my game, I see an 8-year-old Trucy, not 15-year-old Trucy. Do I have a different English version of the game or something? I've been wondering ever since I saw the locket of 15-year-old Trucy on the site.
Oops, sorry, I just replayed the case, and the photo was of young!Trucy, so nevermind >__< (bad memory is bad DX)
Still, the picture of 15-year-old Trucy in the locket on the site is confusing me...
MapleRose wrote:
Alice wrote:
And here is another contradiction from 4-3. Lamiroir couldn't have been the accomplice, yes. But when Apollo tried to prove that, he talked about how the 30-feet range isn't far enough when the thingy rose with Klavier and the Lamiroir stand-in (Valant Gramayre - who knows how he managed to pull that off?). It seems that Apollo was talking about the Lamiroir stand-in, not Lamiroir, herself. Unless, Valant is a Borginian, which isn't true. The real Lamiroir was above the ceiling when the remote was pressed, so she could have been the accomplice.
Apollo's point was that at the time the igniter in
's guitar went off, Lamiroir was in the air vent above the dressing room (since she heard Daryan say "press the switch"). Her position in the vent could have reached the stage because it was within 30feet of the stage. However, at that point in the performance, Klavier and the stand-in (Valant) were on the raised platform when the shooter made the transmission. The platform was raised to 15feet above the actual stage, meaning that at the moment the remote went off, Klavier's guitar would've been out of the real Lamiroir's range. So only Machi, who was on stage at the time, could have reached. Valant was also on the stage, but he's not Borginian.Oh! That makes sense now! I've been wondering this contradiction for a long time, and I'm glad to understand now. :D Thanks.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Alice wrote:
Still, the picture of 15-year-old Trucy in the locket on the site is confusing me...
Yeah, I think that's what confused me, I think I saw that pic in the locket on the site and went "hey wait....." XDAlice wrote:
Oh! That makes sense now! I've been wondering this contradiction for a long time, and I'm glad to understand now. :D Thanks.
No problem ^_^
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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The locket: I guess I was a little confused, and didn't remember correctly ^^' In one version there's 15-yr old Trucy, and in the other is 8-yr old Trucy. If young!Trucy is in the English version, then regular Trucy is probably in the Japanese version...
Kristoph's line: Kristoph suspected Phoenix suspected Kristoph of the crimes. That's all :P If Phoenix thought Kristoph was the criminal 7 years ago, then 4-1 could be Phoenix's revenge, whether Kristoph was actually the criminal or not.
4-4: Well, I don't think Lana had much sway, considering what happened in 1-5. But Phoenix's "crime" could've been too big for Edgey or Gummy to help him with.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Well Gummy is pretty much useless in terms of power, but I thought Edgey maybe would've had connections with the higher-ups to help pull some strings.... I guess that's just fanciful thinking on my part XD
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
Well, with Daryan the shots probably did go where they would go, so that's okay. And if they could hand-wave aside that Machi's arm should not have been attached to his body if he had fired the gun, then they could hand wave that the bullets should be higher on the wall.
Coulda, didn't, argument invalid. A possibility (assuming Machi is guilty, and that there was no struggle, both perfectly reasonable with the information at the time of arrest) is that LeTouse was oblivious to Machi's murderous motive, and that LeTouse leaned down to ask for his gun back.
Bad Player wrote:
Machi's arm should not have been attached to his body
This is something that always bugs me about the AA fanbase. Everyone exaggerates the gun's (in-game) recoil. First, no one states that the gun has a 100% chance of dislocating the average user's shoulder. They always, always leave room for doubt. Second, you also underestimate Machi's build. It's probably because he dresses like a pussy. Also, Daryan is built about the same, just taller. AND a lot of Machi's sprites have him clutching his left arm, possibly from injury. With the information given in the game (including the assumption that whoever did it, by which the Judge means Machi, was trained), I would think anyone with common sense would say that Machi shooting LeTouse was possible.
Quite frankly, saying it's the biggest, most obvious contradiction infuriates me. It's not one at all!
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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GigaHand wrote:
A possibility (assuming Machi is guilty, and that there was no struggle, both perfectly reasonable with the information at the time of arrest) is that LeTouse was oblivious to Machi's murderous motive, and that LeTouse leaned down to ask for his gun back.
But if this was the case, wouldn't LeTouse have been shot from the front, and thus fallen on his back when Apollo discovered his body? I think with the bullet going through him and him bleeding like that, did he have the strength to flip over?
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
It's the war of the Eyeglasses!
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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JeremyGavin wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
They are always there watching cases. Those aren't juries. Just audience members.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
It's the war of the Eyeglasses!
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler: Not sure if spoiler is needed, but to be nice
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler: 4-4
Possible explanation
Spoiler:
Supporter of:
Phoenix-Iris
Gumshoe-Maggy
Apollo-Vera
Godot-Coffee
Phoenix-Iris
Gumshoe-Maggy
Apollo-Vera
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
I know, Wright?
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Aebelskiver wrote:
I don't know if anyone has brought this up already, but
Possible explanation
Spoiler: 4-4
Possible explanation
Spoiler:
Vera only used the nailpolish when she went outside. She hadn't bitten her nails while wearing it until 4-4.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler: 4-3
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:40 pm
Posts: 390
HOWEVER.
When he jumps in as your assistant, he starts pointing with his RIGHT hand.
The proof is in the sprites:
.gif)
Just bothered me a bit.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
OBJECTION!
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Location: Canada
Rank: Desk Jockey
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:49 am
Posts: 52
Darth GW7 wrote:
It may be a little picky, but for ALL and I mean ALL of the GS1-3 games, Phoenix always points with his LEFT hand.
HOWEVER.
When he jumps in as your assistant, he starts pointing with his RIGHT hand.
The proof is in the sprites:
Just bothered me a bit.
HOWEVER.
When he jumps in as your assistant, he starts pointing with his RIGHT hand.
The proof is in the sprites:
Just bothered me a bit.
I assume it's just because of your viewpoint. It'd be a little awkward to have Phoenix point with his left hand and have his BACK to you, wouldn't it?
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Posts: 63
Spoiler: Mason system
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
Aka Miss Fortune / Sir Prize
Gender: Male
Rank: Medium-in-training
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HoboPhoenix wrote:
Spoiler: Mason system
Spoiler:
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
Beautiful flower
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Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:45 am
Posts: 193
Spoiler: AJ case 3, Trucy
I also didn't understand the relationship between the Gramarye Troupe's members... sometimes they get along well, sometimes not...
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
Aka Miss Fortune / Sir Prize
Gender: Male
Rank: Medium-in-training
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:40 pm
Posts: 390
Spoiler:
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