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Re: Downfall to the Turnabout - Prologue Complete!Topic%20Title
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Alrighty, I believe it's time for some sort of an update, yes? Well, I don't have any (unless a writer's block can be considered an update). So, in the meantime, I think I'll post a small development diary of sorts to show the process of how Downfall came to life. It's not very long at all and I hope that you find it interesting, if anything. Again, this focuses more on the 'idea' rather than the actual 'Prologue' released so far.

Spoiler: Downfall to the Turnabout ~ Development Diary #1
Development Diary #1 wrote:
Downfall to the Turnabout ~ Development Diary #1 (Creation)

The original idea for Downfall started exactly a year ago. I remember it was a time I just wanted to MAKE SOMETHING. I didn't know what it was about, I didn't know how I was going to do it, but I had this itch to just make an Ace Attorney fangame of my own. Don't ask why, because I don't know. So, I started to write a project titled: 'Downfall'. The original concept was to take place in an alternate reality where Matt Engarde got away in the events of 'Farewell, my Turnabout'. The events would take place in the AJ timeline and would pretty much be a 'What if?' story – but with a twist. One, it wasn't supposed to be very long (2-3 hours at most), but the player would be given many choices that would influnece how certain events happened that would eventually give him many different endings and the player would have the option of controlling all the essential characters (Apollo, Phoenix, Gumshoe, ect.) It was from this idea that this sprite was born:

Image

This was meant to be the hobo Nick of the alternate universe.


It was my first attempt at a sprite and I was very happy. The problem was – I just had no ispiration. It felt like too much work and the culprit wasn't so much deduced from the 'How?' rather than the 'Why?' and it got... stale. Eventually, it just faded away and became nothing more than a distant memory.
Then, a few months later – I got another idea: It was a three-case series whose cases were very tightly connected to each other. The first case 'The Fool's Turnabout' was the case the Prologue of Downfall was based on – Edgeworth was arrested for the murder of Catherine Holl and the one who defended him would be Phoenix Wright. ...And yes, it was supposed to take place in the AJ timeline. The idea was that Phoenix pretended to have regained his badge in order to represent Edgeworth in court.

Image

The Nick in 'The Fool's Turnabout'. Some might notice the similarity of his line with the one used in the 'Downfall'.


An example of the original script used for 'The Fool's Turnabout' wrote:
???: Wright.
Phoenix: Hmm?
???: Are you sure.... this'll work?
???: The risks you're taking... they're too big.
Phoenix: The truth must be preserved.
Phoenix: You said that yourself, remember?
???: I know. And I meant it.
???: But for your sake... I...
Phoenix: Trust me. I'll be fine.
???: I trust you, Wright.
???: ...But if you're caught...
Phoenix: I know. Your verdict will also be jeopardized.
Phoenix: Don't worry. Thanks to the jurist system, you'll be safe even if I am.
{pause}
???: Wright... I... Thank you.
Phoenix: That's what friends are for.. isn't it?


That idea quickly evolved when I decided to replace Phoenix with Apollo as my main protagonist. And soon, I kind of decided to combine all those three cases into one – Downfall to the Turnabout. It was going to be the first case of a fangame – 'Apollo Justice: A Game of Deception'.

Image


I'm not going to lie – When I announced this on Court Records, the only concrete idea I had was for cases 1 and 4. The 2nd case was essentially character introductions and the third one... I had no idea. Despite this, I proceeded with the creation of Downfall. Eventually, after releasing the first part of what was going to be the first day, I suddenly got an idea – make case 1 and 4 into one case! Well, naturally details would have to be changed, but the concept would be the same. Another reason was that I was 80% precent sure that if I were to do 4 cases, the fangame would never be finished. So, I announced this and went directly to part two of the case. ...Only to stop dead in my tracks. I started to eventually stop working on it due to my schoolwork and became unable to find the time or the will to pick it up again. Something that people have to understand is that making a fangame, of any kind, isn't easy. It requires planning, dedication, endurance and the will to just throw everything out of the window and start again. It's a tedious and frustrating process, believe me.
Another, unsurprising problem was the coding. Not that the coding itself was hard – on the contrary, PyWright is an extremely easy program to use once you get used to it. The problem was how time consuming it was. Do you remember Doe's first testimony in Prologue Pt. 2? The easiest testimony in AA history? That took me two days straight to code. It was annoying and I just wanted to stop and say: 'Screw this!' and leave everything (like I had so many times before). But I didn't. My fingers hurt like hell, but at the end of the day, I managed to finally get through it. The point is – making a fangame isn't easy. It isn't easy to write it. It isn't easy to code it.

Now let's talk about the presentation. I never actually intended to work on the presentation that much to begin with. But, as I started to make these small touches to improve it, I eventually became obsessed with it – from simple fade-ins or making sure that the Cross-Examination sign disappears after it shows to animated evidence adding, evidence boxes, 'Select your answer' fgs, Apollo zoom pose on the bottom screen whenever he objects, etc., etc. It didn't make my life any easier, but frankly, it was worth it, without a doubt.
It's actually one of the reasons why I won't be making say, an AAO version. The presentation in cluded in it is... simply far too complex to spend all that time making it, fine tuning it and uploading it with the danger of it being taken down.

Moving on to the writing. When making a fangame, you really need to make sure that: A) The pacing is right, B) You've got the characters down and C) That the crime itself is good. I'd say that Prologue had problems mostly with the A) (the lobby seen was dragged – but it was something I had to do) and C) – in other words, the crime wasn't that interesting or flashed out for people to understand it. This is something I'm working for in the next parts. If people are actually trying to solve the crime with Apollo, that means that I've succeeded. Will I? Only time will show...
As for the characters, I didn't actually have any trouble writing them. That's not to say my characterisation is 100% prefect – by no means, however people found that it all mostly worked. ...But that's for the characters that you've seen so far. Other characters (namely Trucy) I'm not so strong in writing. So we'll see.

I can understand I should talk about some of the things like Catherine Holl, Rudolf, DeKiller and possibly their ideas, characters, etc. – But I won't. The simplest reason I can give you is: 'It'll be explaned'. ...For most parts, anyway.

That concludes the first Development Diary of Downfall to the Turnabout. I can understand it wasn't that interesting, but I hope some people found it useful, anyway.

That one guy from AAO that made about a dozen cases that all kinda go off the deep end and fall apart at one point or another.
Re: Downfall to the Turnabout - Prologue Complete!Topic%20Title
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Finally completed the Prologue... The most useless piece of evidence was the one that helped solve everything. At last, a review *fistpump*
FIRST OF ALL DWAM. I would like to thank you for creating the most ridiculous contradictions in any testimony I've ever seen. Now *ahem*

Spoiler:
Plot: Extremely intriguing, Can't wait to learn more of the victim's past. This was a roller coaster of a case as soon as I saw two things: The murder weapon and the defendant (Why are trials involving HIM never easy?) 10/10

Script: Very well written, Although as noted earlier, some of the dialogue goes off the screen so I had to piece together what was being said (even though it was fairly easy). A few spelling errors here and there, but at least I could see what your point was so no harm done on that. I also enjoyed the humour in some of the script while maintaining the serious environment surrounding Apollo. 8.5/10 (-2.5 for grammar :))

Sound/Music: Ah. My Forte. Musically speaking your selection was brilliant...except for the techno part nearing the end of the logic chess. I personally lost all focus and started to headbang...well...nod my head to the music while not paying attention to the clock. (I couldn't help it). The music during the Cross-Examinations was phenomenal, I felt myself becoming sucked into it with each statement I pressed. 9/10 (-1 for making me headbang during logic chess :( I had a headache)

Overall: Probably one of the best fan-made cases I've ever played and hopefully not the last coming from you, I appreciate you devoting your time to create a marvelous creation for us Ace Attorney fanatics to play. (9.5/10)
Re: Downfall to the Turnabout - Prologue Complete!Topic%20Title
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I'm glad you enjoyed it! Now, let's see...

Spoiler: Responses
The most useless piece of evidence was the one that helped solve everything.
Indeed. I'm actually surprised nobody found anything strange with the dirt... O_o

FIRST OF ALL DWAM. I would like to thank you for creating the most ridiculous contradictions in any testimony I've ever seen. Now *ahem*
*Insert evil laugh here* No... wait. That doesn't really apply if someone is thanking you for it, now does it? .... *Insert good laugh here*?

In any case, I applaud you for making through Doe's second testimony without a walkthough!


Plot: Extremely intriguing, Can't wait to learn more of the victim's past. This was a roller coaster of a case as soon as I saw two things: The murder weapon and the defendant (Why are trials involving HIM never easy?) 10/10
Oh, trust me, it ain't gonna get any easier from here.... /trollface

Script: Very well written, Although as noted earlier, some of the dialogue goes off the screen so I had to piece together what was being said (even though it was fairly easy). A few spelling errors here and there, but at least I could see what your point was so no harm done on that. I also enjoyed the humour in some of the script while maintaining the serious environment surrounding Apollo. 8.5/10 (-2.5 for grammar :))
Damn you, grammaaaaar!!!

Overall: Probably one of the best fan-made cases I've ever played and hopefully not the last coming from you, I appreciate you devoting your time to create a marvelous creation for us Ace Attorney fanatics to play. (9.5/10)
Again, thanks. It really means a lot to me. I'll try not to disappoint with Awakening which, to be frank, I have no idea how I'm gonna pull off! XD

That one guy from AAO that made about a dozen cases that all kinda go off the deep end and fall apart at one point or another.
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Heh. I'm sure you'll have no issue with that ;). If you need help with any music or themes let me know, I'm more than happy to help!
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Will do! :)
That one guy from AAO that made about a dozen cases that all kinda go off the deep end and fall apart at one point or another.
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You mentioned some tip about your account name. So I'm gonna ask you this:
Spoiler:
Is Godot will be in your game? Or he will be mentioned? Or am I wrong

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Uhm... I don't remember saying anything about a hint being in my name. O_o
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Re: Downfall to the Turnabout - Prologue Complete!Topic%20Title
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Updates!


Well, remember how I said earlier that the scripting of Chapter 1 began? Well, shortly after that announcement I ran into a major writer's block and have to return to the planning stage of the entire thing. Now that I'm done, the true beginning of Awakening can begin... And with it, I bring some screenshots regarding it!

Spoiler: Awakening Spoilers!
Image


Another thing I've been working on is improving Prologue. I've already done some pretty minor (but nevertheless, important things), like changing Edgeworth's color scheme:

Spoiler: Color Comparison
BEFORE -------------- AFTER

Image


I'm also considering adding a couple of more presents near the end, too (maybe even an extra testimony), but that's a big maybe (because it might take away from the climax of Prologue, but it's something I'm thinking about).
That one guy from AAO that made about a dozen cases that all kinda go off the deep end and fall apart at one point or another.
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I just signed up to say a couple things: :hobohodo:

1-
Spoiler:
I finished the prologue. Yes, you left me with the doubt who was the client. Good Scripting! After all I enjoyed this interesting chapter.

2- There are several mistakes in the grammar, but, for me, doesn't matter so much :edgy:
3- You rock! So keep it up! :shoe:
4- I don't speak English so well (As You may have noticed? :godot:)

Cheers!
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Thanks for playing it! It really means a lot to me.

The Judge wrote:
I just signed up to say a couple things: :hobohodo:

1-
Spoiler:
I finished the prologue. Yes, you left me with the doubt who was the client. Good Scripting! After all I enjoyed this interesting chapter.

I'm glad it did. It's one of the things I actually tried to achieve through the entire thing. XD

2- There are several mistakes in the grammar, but, for me, doesn't matter so much :edgy:
Yeah, it's certainly something I'm going to have to work on. (English isn't my native language, but I'm trying to fix it as much as possible).
3- You rock! So keep it up! :shoe:
Thanks!
4- I don't speak English so well (As You may have noticed? :godot:)
Indeed I have! :)

Cheers!


Again, thanks for playing!
That one guy from AAO that made about a dozen cases that all kinda go off the deep end and fall apart at one point or another.
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Hey there. I just began playing Downfall to the Turnabout and I must say I am damn impressed with it. I really cant complain about anything except one thing:

The music. Is there a reason why you didnt put in more of the original soundtrack? Because in my opinion, the OST just fits the entire thing alot more.
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DoctorWhose wrote:
The music. Is there a reason why you didnt put in more of the original soundtrack? Because in my opinion, the OST just fits the entire thing alot more.


It's a matter of personal liking and I understand that. But I really wanted to pretty much find an entirely new ST for this simply because of the darker nature of the case.
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Quote:
It's a matter of personal liking and I understand that. But I really wanted to pretty much find an entirely new ST for this simply because of the darker nature of the case.



Well, thing is, all of the AA games have these very catchy and sort of jinglely (oh god, is this even a word? :will: ) 32/64 bit themes, while you use something really different. I am mostly refering to the "Different people" piece, which is used for "Cross Examination Moderate/Allegro" as far as I can tell. It probably really is just my opinion, but it gives the Cross-Examination a very strange feeling. And not in a positive way.
I think a great idea for a Cross-Examination theme would be the Jeopardy Think Theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXGhvoekY44 :edgy: :edgy: :edgy:
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Again, it's a matter of opinion. I, however, as I said - personally prefer my choice simply because of the entire nature of the case. :)
That one guy from AAO that made about a dozen cases that all kinda go off the deep end and fall apart at one point or another.
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Yup. Well, as I am progressing through the prolouge I begin to get used to it :D
Spoiler:
Damn, I like the idea of those many different gameplay elements like logic and Rebuttals while in court. Any chance you will be coding in Perceiving, too? Or is it too difficult?
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Spoiler: Response
Quote:
Any chance you will be coding in Perceiving, too? Or is it too difficult?


It's something that was to be done in the original concept of the case, I however dropped at the last minute simply because I considered it a waste of time back then - especially considering the fact that Perceiving in PyWright isn't 100% perfect. ...Still, It's something I have thought about recently and it is something that might eventually come up... but in a slightly different form ;)

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Alright, I have an update, however, this was posted on the AAO thread. ...The message should be pretty obvious, though.

Quote:
Update

Alright, even though this thread may be unactive (though the CR thread wasn't any active, either, but w/e), I am hereby announcing a massive change. I have decided to make this entire case trial-only. In other words, no investigations. HOWEVER - there is one thing you should be aware of. When I say 'trial only', I don't mean starting a new trial after the prologue. No. Instead, I mean I will EXPAND the Prologue so that I can make it into a full case. While I had originally planned for another crime, entierly, I think some of the people will find it interesting in the direction this will take.

So, how will I change it? Well, Part 1 should be relatively untouched, while Part 2 will be seeing quite a bit of changes... pretty much taking the entire case in a new direction. ...So... Yeah.

The reason behind this? Simple - no inspiration. I have inspiration for an investigation. But I also have no will on doing a repeat of Prologue. Another reason is that I... don't really think I can reach that emotional level of Prologue's intro OR its conclusion. It's... not an exactly thing to go from.

So... yeah. In conclusion, I'm pulling a BioWare. Think of the case now as an Extended Cut of the Prologue.

That's all.

P. S. From now on, this thread will be updated with all the minor updates instead of the CR one. The major updates will still be on CR.

That one guy from AAO that made about a dozen cases that all kinda go off the deep end and fall apart at one point or another.
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Hmm, interesting...

Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
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Ha, good to see the game is still alive! You have one of the best first cases of anyone on here, and
Spoiler:
cross examining the prosecutor was awesome.
I can't wait to see where you go with this change of direction! :gant:
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Wasn't John Doe sentenced to death after the Matt Engarde case?
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KTH_KING wrote:
Wasn't John Doe sentenced to death after the Matt Engarde case?


No. He never showed his face in that case. They knew he did the killing but he only showed up as a walkie talkie. They never knew where he was.
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Well, I have to say this game is amazing!!! Its also very smart, it makes me think a lot. At 1st I hated the save system, (I have to replay the second part of the 1st testimony like 5 times) but I get used to it. Is very well written, I looking foward to the full complete project DudeWithATalent.
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Well... Uh... Yeah. No updates for a while, huh?
...I suppose I should rectify that:

This project is dead. I won't sugar-coat it, nor lie to you (though... isn't that sorta the same thing?). I've just lost the will and inspiration to it and I pretty much have little to not intention of going back to it. I had an interesting idea going with it, but now it's sort of... Meh. It's just not something I feel like writing nor something I'm interested in anymore. Frankly, even looking back on the Prologue, aside from the sense of "over-arch-ness", it really didn't have much to offer in terms of crime or any major character development (not to mention the rather abismal Rudolf sprite). So... yeah. There's that. Sorry for everyone who might've been looking forward to the "epic" conclusion. (That, chances are, might not have ever been reached).

...That being said, however.

I have since this done other projects. Or... well, done one and am in process of doing another. Not to mention, Downfall didn't completely go do waste. Some of its ideas and concepts did make it to the current case I'm making (whose, by the way, Part 1/2 will be coming it very early in February, so you might want to check that out whenever it comes to AAO forums).

Finally, if you want so see proof that it doesn't take me an eternity to complete and actual case, I urge you to check out the "Turnabout Tomorrow" case link in my sig, in case you haven't already. (It's a featured trial on AAO!)

So, uh... Yeah. Enough shameless advertisement and, uh... Yeah.

This was fun, I guess.
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I think you told me about this earlier, so it's not too much of a surprise to me.

I'll be looking forward to the current case. You need any help on spritework with that?
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Sorry to hear that another project is dead. But I'm kinda curious about this new case...
Good luck with that!

DWaM, any chance you can help me with proof-reading? You had read the script, you're good in writing and I'm short on hands, so I'm asking you. If you have time, send a PM.
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I'd like to ask a question, but you don't have to answer it if you don't want to.

Spoiler:
Who ordered the assasination of Catherine Holl?

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Ropfa wrote:
I think you told me about this earlier, so it's not too much of a surprise to me.

I'll be looking forward to the current case. You need any help on spritework with that?

While it's more than a tempting offer, for the moment, I'd say no... (Not to mention, since the competition it'll be entered in ends in mere days, I doubt putting the pressure on you would be any good. XP)

JoekerTrack wrote:
Sorry to hear that another project is dead. But I'm kinda curious about this new case...
Good luck with that!

DWaM, any chance you can help me with proof-reading? You had read the script, you're good in writing and I'm short on hands, so I'm asking you. If you have time, send a PM.

I'm afraid I'll have to decline. I'm really busy at the moment both in terms of my schoolwork and the current case. (Not to mention, I'll have to most certainly get around to testing Part 2 of CoI, so...)
Perhaps sometime when I'm not so overworked. ^^"

Darth Wiader wrote:
I'd like to ask a question, but you don't have to answer it if you don't want to.

Spoiler:
Who ordered the assasination of Catherine Holl?

That's actually a pretty tricky thing for me to answer, at the moment. Mostly because the explanation itself is very drawn out and the entire matter in the end turns out to be pretty complicated. ...I'll get around to actually posting a "solution" of sorts to Downfall, but since, as I said, I borrwed some ideas from it to this new case, to avoid giving spoilers, I'll hold off until that case is actually finished. :]
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I'm sad now :(

You should make another PyWright some time I really liked your presentation
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Well, I have to say, I'm a bit tired of PyWright... Not to mention it's been a while since I've even used it...
Chances are, if I'll make another case in PyWright, it'll most likely be a conversion from one of my AAO cases... :P
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Wait what? Our case comp has elements of Downfall in it?

YOU LEARN SOMETHING NEW EVERY DAAAAAAAAAAAAY. >_>

But yeah, you guys should go play Tomorrow. It's AMAZING~
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I am probably *REALLY* late for this party, since I forgot I had DttT in the PYwright folder.

It's pretty good, I am kinda disappointing that...
Spoiler:
The first witness is the killer, I was kind of hoping that there's a plot twist.

I liked the new mechanics like Logic Chess and Memory puzzles.
Too bad that they weren't common.

Oh, and are you going to make episode 2? (There's a lot of un-answered questions like:)
Spoiler:
1: The reason why Edgeworth went there. (I know, SN-7, but what happened in that case?)
2: The fourth person's identity. (Could it be... Phoenix Wright?)
3: The client. (I am guessing it's Rudolf because of the devil, and how Edgeworth said that DeKiller betrayed Rudolf.)
4: How did DeKiller escape even though the Bailiffs should be standing right next to the courtroom's doors?

"Oh holy father, holy Brother, holy master... My sacred mission is at last complete. With these two hands, mankind is saved. I am your will made flesh. In your name, I give thanks."
Re: Downfall to the Turnabout - Prologue Complete!Topic%20Title
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I'm glad you liked it.

But to answer your question -- no, this project will not be continued. As I said, I considered posting a 'summary' of sorts regarding what actually happened, but... Looking back at it, I'm sort of disappointed with the way the story would've progressed, so... I doubt even that will happen. XP
That one guy from AAO that made about a dozen cases that all kinda go off the deep end and fall apart at one point or another.
Re: Downfall to the Turnabout - Prologue Complete!Topic%20Title

The guy who looks at stuff

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Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 2:36 am

Posts: 30

Really cool case you have here dude! Sorry to see it cancelled. Oh well.

I'm sorry to ask, but which version is the newest: the download on this thread or the download on PyWright itself?
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