Sounds like this person really must have had no life if he played for 38:32 hrs straight

My favorite Zelda game so far has got to be Majora's Mask, hands down.

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...check the videos, you'll see that several of them, except the Final Boss leading to the Ending one, are all between 9 - 20 minutes long and end with the Owl Statue saves.

C-A

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Well doing it that way is possible especially if its just a 6 day challenge without collecting all the Masks to transform into Adult Link or doing most of the side quests.

About people who call Skyward Zelda ugly.

Well, I think she is! Her hair is too bright, her ears seem unnaturally long, even compared to most of the other people in Skyward who actually all have long hairs and her nose bulb seems freakish when I look at it.

C-A

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Man all the judgements here.

Guess we ain't as far from standards of beauty as I'd hoped.

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Same I'm a person who LOVES side-quests- not shallow ones like 'go defeat this monster for so and so' like you get in RPGS, but ones that actually feel like they have meaning- and this game was just chock FULL of great side-quests. I mean, defeating aliens? Infiltrating a thief's lair to get a mask? Playing the Ballad of the Wind Fish to cheer up a grumpy old man? There were SO much stuff to do that almost always got you either a mask or piece of heart, and it was a lot of fun not only discovering these side-quests (the game never came out and told you where they were; you had to discover it's secrets yourself) but simply DOING them. Now this game also had a good soundtrack, challenging dungeons, an intelligent and dark plot/theme unique to Zelda games, and a brilliant gameplay mechanic through the whole '3-day system', but in the end, it's the numerous side-quests you can do that make this game special to me Maybe that's a weird reason to have this as a favorite Zelda, but whatever; it is what it is

After that, my next favorite is tied between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Both are great at what they do; Wind Waker had a unique style and gameplay mechanics (in the form of the 'parrying' system and the sailing), and felt like I was playing through this grand, cartoon adventure to me. Twilight Princess felt like this gigantic epic with it's cinematic, realistic style and had some of the more real (and sometimes outlandish) and enjoyable characters within the Zelda universe. Both games are great, so I have a hard time trying to put one above the other

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Same here...The time mechanic is a perfect way to keep even a seasoned player on edge. The story only gets better the more you do. Side quests in this game feel more like part of the main story. And the more you think about it the more you realize. This game is about making people happy. You are healing the souls of people who are full of fear, sorrow, and regret. When you talk to people on the final day you see them at their most vulnerable. You will see the essence of the people who are genuinely scared for the end. You see the swordsman shivering in his backroom, you see the postman wishing to flee but because of his dedication and loyalty to his work ethic can't, you see Anju and Kafei waiting for the end of the world to come. This game shows the disaster that is happening slowly around you. And every time you do something good you're forced to turn back time and undo everything. Most of the time the only thing you have to confirm you even did anything at all is the items and masks you gather. This gives you a feeling of hopelessness you don't get with other Zelda games. I could compare it to Shadow of the Colossus, in how you feel powerless to stop it. But when you do stop it, it's so satisfying to see all the happy endings. But then you are reminded that there were lives you couldn't save. And because there were those after effects, it pretty much makes this the most mature Zelda game ever. Just because there were things you couldn't and can't change. The fact that they address that at all is pretty spectacular. Then we have the whole of Ikana canyon the land of the dead. I could go on and on about how much I love that place. It turned MONSTERS into pitiable beings. You see the history, how a great civilization turned to dust and in the middle of this forsaken place is a father and daughter who care deeply for each-other, and the dead citizens who are forced to live on due to a curse, the Garo, who die without leaving a corps, the solder stalchildren and their leader, the composer brother who sold his soul and the other who wishes to rest in peace, and the king who wants nothing more than to put the land to rest. Stone Tower, based on the tower of Babel, was the best Temple in the game. The whole idea of turning the world upside-down was genius. And that song! Good lord do I love the Stone Tower theme! I even wrote lyrics to it!

I'm putting them in the spoiler bar below.


But though I like Twilight Princess it's not my second favorite. I agree Wind Waker a really good one too.

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Agreed... again As much as I loved Ocarina of Time, the world felt so sparsely populated and segragated that it felt less like a proper 'world' and more so just a playground for you to adventure in. The story and characters were all good, don't get me wrong, but the world they fit into wasn't one I grew particularly attached to Termina on the other hand, felt a LOT different. It felt dense and every area was closely connected; there was rarely some large open space of nothingness, there was always something or someone occupying an area wherever you went. Also, because of the fact Clock Town was in the middle of it all and featured characters from each region, it really gave it a 'capital city' sort of feel, and really impressed upon you that this place meant something to it's people. Plus, because of the whole time mechanic, everyone was ALWAYS doing something and were never stagnant; they didn't just stay in one place till night time then teleported away when darkness fell, they were actually doing something with their time, which made the people of Termina feel less like characters and more like... well... actual people, despite how eccentric to me. So... yeah; out of all the Zelda's, I would say Majora's Mask felt the most 'real' to me in terms of its world, though others (such as Twilight Princess) did do a good job.

Of course, as you said, this made it feel all the more tragic; this world felt so real... and we're constantly reminded that a great portion of it is going to be crushed by the moon. Many of them try to go about their lives like nothing's wrong initially, then as the threat grows ever closer they start growing more panicy and terrified, now forced to accept the imminent threat of death. More then that, it meant the destruction of their home and everything they held dear, and it's too much for some to handle; for example the postman can't bring himself to leave the town because of his duty, despite it going to be crushed. You could really feel these people's despair, and it made you want to help them as much as possible. And whenever you DID help them -a la side quest- you were forced to travel back in time and undo it ALL, with all the good you did having never even occured and no one remembering it happened but you. If you don't think too deeply into it, then Majora's Mask may not seem all that dark with you eventually saving the land from the moon and defeating the ultimate evil; however if you really take time to ponder the world that's presented to you and grow attached to it, then it becomes perfectly clear that through it's undertones, this is by far the darkest and depressing game in the Zelda series. And yes, I love it so

Also yes, the Stone Tower was an awesome dungeon Finding all its stray faries is REALLY HARD though, and slightly stressful

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I could never really get into Twilight Princess myself. I beat it and all, I think it's an alright game, but it fell short to me compared to other Zelda titles I have played.

To me, the dungeon designs felt all over the place. To a point where it felt like they had assigned different teams to create different dungeons. It was the feeling I got. When they did get a dungeon right, it was brilliant. Arbiter's Grounds and the Yeti Mansion are the definite highlight of the game for me and those are dungeon I have a lot of fun with. Arbiter's Ground, while I hate that they copied the gimmick from the Forest Temple in OoT, was executed quite well. The puzzles were great and the Spinner obstacle courses were a lot of fun. For the Yeti Mansion, just going out of the box and making a house a dungeon was awesome. The sense of progression was there and I liked doing the cannons. Having free soup when you needed it was neat too. Hyrule Castle, while I don't feel was quite up to the standard of the ones I mentioned, was still very good and a great final dungeon. After Arbiter's Ground, this dungeon definitely had the best atmosphere. The puzzles were also very clever. One puzzle that I absolutely loved that they gave you was in the room where you had to follow the spirits so you could see where you were going. To let you know to do that, they put the room full of those ghost rats that you have to turn into a wolf and use your sense to be able to get rid of them. While you're doing that, you see the spirits pointing in the right directions. I really thought that was a clever and well-thought out idea.

Dungeons that I definitely felt were just terribly lacking and I just didn't have fun with was the Lakebed Temple, the Temple of Light and the one in the sky. The Lakebed Temple just felt like poor design to me. It had an interesting concept of the water flow, but it was a bit jarring trying to navigate at times. I love exploration in dungeons, but the way the setup was just didn't make it fun for me. The Temple of Light I thought was really awesome in theory. The execution? Not so much. It was nothing but backtracking and I didn't like it. It just felt way to gimmicky and too straightforward. The sky dungeon... UGH. Didn't care for it AT all. I didn't find it difficult, but I didn't find it fun either. Waiting FOREVER to ride peahats from one place to another was a bore. Zelda is more about getting from point A to point B efficiently. If I have to go slow, it needs to be in a stealth section or I better be figuring out a clever puzzle. Being forced to wait in a dungeon to progress is not fun when I want to go kill things. I get the same sense from Goron Mines when I'm forced to walk on walls and the ceiling with the Iron Boots. It's a really fantastic concept, but I hate how slow and awkward it is.

Also, the Twilight Dungeon. Terrible, terrible, terrible. The beginning section with the hands is not fun. I hate it and it's one part I really dread whenever I do a playthrough. It's just annoying and unneeded. Then the boss key placement. They go and put it WAY out of the way to the point where many first time players will sit there stumped for long periods of time trying to figure out where it is or how to get there. While it's obvious to me now, I still don't like it, it's not a good placement choice. While I really like working to find my boss key, it should require, at most, some kind of logical thinking to be able to find it, not a wild stab in the dark of "hey, let me jump into this cursed goop that the game has made very clear that I shouldn't be jumping in."

As for the world of Hyrule itself. There's love and there's hate. It's massive, I love getting to ride around in it, it's lots of fun. If you have your horse. It DRAGS when you don't! But, it's a minor complaint. It still looks nice and I have fun traversing it. My problem is that unlike most other Zelda games, it suffers from not really having any secrets to explore. Ocarina of Time, I felt suffered this too. One reason why I hold Link to the Past in high regards is the amount of exploration Hyrule has to offer. Discovering new places by bombing walls, stumbling into secrets. Twilight Princess has only a few places that are like that, and it wouldn't be a problem, except that the world is MUCH bigger so I'd expect more places and secrets to find. Not a lot of dead ends that have nothing to show for it.

As for doing the Twilight stuff prior to the first three dungeons, I guess I'm impartial. There's nothing to really swoon and fanboy over, but it's not the worst thing either. My only complaint really is the enemy music in the Twilight Realm is atrocious.

The horseback riding stuff... maybe it's because I suck at it, but aside from, say the battle with Ganondorf, I don't like it at all. Doing the bridge showdown, it's another part of the game I don't like. The part where you have to accompany the carriage is just annoying. I do like how I can use my sword on Epona though, that's fun to do. I just don't really like any of the forced horse segements the game requires you to do. I don't find them fun.

For the story, I feel it tries too hard to be Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask and set itself apart from Wind Waker. I do like some of the subtleties of the connections to OoT, like the Stalfos who teaches you the moves is Link from OoT, but I feel like it's wanting to try to be the next OoT at times by trying to set up some kind of grand plot that doesn't really go too far. The story can get interesting at times, and then there are times where I really don't care what's going on at all. What I really hate is when it gets dark and it feels WAY too forced. I love Majora's Mask, but when it got dark, it felt more natural to me. This game would go through mood shifts too quickly and would leave me confused rather than awed. This is where I get the feeling too where it tried to shift from the "happy" style of Wind Waker by being purposely dark to try to appease fans who were upset about Wind Waker. By the way, Wind Waker, to me, still has the most brutal Ganondorf death in the series to me. A thrust straight into the skull still owns to me. I also hate how they build up Zant to be so promising as such a great and competent villain, only to show him as nothing more than a loyal coward to Ganondorf. Honestly, if Ganondorf wouldn't have been involved at all and instead the Zant the game promised us from the beginning to before his real personality reveal was the final boss instead, I would have loved it. Instead, we get a weak Zant, though I did enjoy the final Ganondorf boss fight, so.... hit and miss I guess.

Also, when playing Zelda, I'm ready to get into the action. Don't give me 2 hours of cutscenes and mundane sidequests before I can tackle my first dungeon proper/explore Hyrule. I don't want to be feeding cats, saving monkeys, helping a pregnant woman, and shooting beehives. I want to go and slash things. This is something that games like Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time got right, especially the former. It throws you right into the action and that's something, to me, that makes Zelda, Zelda.

Speaking of Action, I want to bring up the boss fights. A lot of them fall into the easy and formulamatic "hit them three times with dungeon item, enter phase 2, hit them with the dungeon items three more times, win" bit. That said, I found a lot of bosses to be uninteresting to me. The second phase of the Lakebed Temple boss was probably one of the first I liked. Felt like a Shadow of the Colossus feel and it was neat. Where I think the game really shined though was in Arbiter's Ground and the Yeti Mansion. Stallord is easily my favorite boss in the whole Zelda franchise. I love the fast pace this boss has to offer, the spinner is really fun to use, and it keeps me on the edge of my seat. I liked the Yeti boss if only for the reason that I really liked how they used the reflection of the ice to fight the boss. Reminiscent of one of Ganon's phases in Wind Waker, and I liked that. Added some puzzle to the boss. Zant... was disappointing. While the idea of a boss rush was interesting, he rehashed so many that were just downright dull. The final fight with him was nothing special either. With Ganondorf, while I wouldn't say some parts were fun, it was interesting enough. The various forms had some good strategy involved and using Zelda was a cool idea. The beast form was a neat idea. I guess my only complaint really would be that the final battle was too easy as it was just a button mashing battle, but I liked it enough to not care too much.

The music, overall there are songs I really REALLY enjoy and others I would never want to listen to again. Most songs in the Twilight Realm are horrible, such as the battle theme I mentioned earlier. The only one that I really love, ironically, is the Twilight Palace theme, my most hated dungeon. Another track that really stand out to me as bad is the Sky Temple theme (really, if the Ooccoos weren't in the background, it'd be a nice atmospheric theme).

While I do hate some music, there are many more tracks I actually like. The remixes, such as Zora's Domain (beautiful) and Death Mountain are nice. I like the atmospheric remix of Kakariko. The Lost Village theme is fantastic. Hyrule Field is a great piece of music. I also really enjoy the more somber themes such as Midna's Distress (beautiful), Lake Hylia, and Ordon Woods. Agatha's Theme is also quite charming I find. Hyrule Castle's song is an amazing atmospheric piece. I love how they piece the Hyrule Castle Theme from Link to the Past and add more of Ganon's theme to it as you ascend the castle! It's awesome!

As for the characters. None are really too memorable to me except for Midna. I loved Midna. She was a great partner. I enjoyed having her around. She was probably the only one I really liked. Zant would have been another if not for his ending. I couldn't find myself caring for the kids that Link hung with. Colin was... there. The other kids who I forget were uninteresting. And Malo. Malo is just some creepy, mutant baby. I didn't find myself making a connection with Ilia or the Zora child. There was nothing there for me. The soldiers of Hyrule were a great concept, but I wish they would have done more. I understand Link is the hero, but I wish they could have contributed more than just "let me show you where dungeon X is and we'll take out a couple of enemies in Hyrule Castle for you and never show up again." It bothered me because it was such a neat idea!

For graphics, while I understand they wanted to go with the realistic design, it hasn't aged all that well. Wind Waker, which came out years ago, still looks great by today's standards. Heck, I think Majora's Mask looks fantastic for an N64 game. While TP's graphics aren't horribly bad, they are showing their age. Gamecube has games which I still think look great today, and TP just isn't one of them.

I suppose I've saved my biggest gripe for last, and that has to do with items. It followed such a basic formula that I didn't like. "find item in dungeon X, use it in dungeon X, then it's only useful a couple more times after dungeon X". So many items, aside from things like the Boomerang, Bombs, and Arrows fell into this. The Clawshot, though kinda victim, saw a decent number of uses. However, amazing concepts like the Spinner and Dominion Rod were sold so short. They had no use outside of their respective dungeon save for a few more tiny things, like getting a Heart Piece. Also, what was the point of the Slingshot when it doesn't take too long after to get the arrows. The slingshot is a complete waste of time in the game. It doesn't even really get time to be useful. It's a huge gripe and it made the game feel stale to me. Heck, replaying Wind Waker recently, I really came to appreciate how useful so dungeon items were, and how they were continuing to come up with new concepts to make them useful or add more uniqueness to them to keep them fresh in later dungeons. The combo of the Hammer/Iron Boots/Deku Leaf to leap off and cover great distances was an awesome concept and they need to do stuff like that in more Zelda games. Keep the items useful. Even a widely held game like Ocarina of Time suffers from this somewhat, though I feel TP takes it to the extreme.


I apologize for the long wall of text and appreciate those who made it through. I want it to be understood, I don't hate this game by any means. I just have a lot of issues with it. It's definitely far from my favorite, this game is far too flawed. Like I said, I think it's an okay game. It's not terrible, but it's not a game I constantly want to play again and again for the experience. This game does have some terrific moments, but I just feel the bad overshadows the good this game can offer. It's average for me, and if I'm in a Zelda mood, there are other titles I feel way more worth playing. I'm not bashing on those who love TP, I'm all for gamers with differing opinions, it's just not the title that gets me excited.

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Not really I memorized where every fairy is for every temple I always get them as soon as I can.

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Wow, you're good Or maybe I'm just bad... or have a bad memory Meh. Either way, at least we can agree on the awesomeness that is the Stone Temple I liked your lyrics btw, just thought I'd mention that

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Can I just say that with Majora's Mask, a lot of the NPCs were really advanced for the time the game came out. I loved getting to learn about some of their lives, getting to see their ongoing fears as they realize the moon is really falling down. Looking back on all their dreams that won't be fulfilled, or with the few, vying for hope until the very end. It's pretty in depth, and I feel that even today, not many games come to this standard with their NPCs. Heck, one minor character that really had me think about how much work they put into this game was the Swordsmaster. All his talk about being brave, taking on the impending doom head on, yet when the final hours tick away, he's hiding in the back of his dojo, scared as everyone else. Stuff like that is so surreal to me. Don't even get me started with Cremia and the scene with her allowing Romani to have some of the Chateau Romani milk.

This game still holds a place for me as one of the few, if maybe only, Zelda game that can get me choked up at times. I gotta say too, the music that plays when the final hours are upon Termina... it's so hauntingly beautiful and dreadful at the same time. Such a gorgeous piece of music.

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Made it through that wall of text, and I can understand As much as I like Twilight Princess, it does seem like it tries its best -gameplay wise- to be a 'mature' version of Ocarina of Time, and by doing so succeeds and fails in a few different ways. It certainly isn't my favorite Zelda by a longshot; I suppose part of the reason I can't bring myself to put it lower on the list is because of Midna. She's my all-time favorite Zelda character bar-none; in terms of CASTS of characters I infinitely prefer that in Majora's Mask to any other Zelda but talking about individual character, Midna is simply superb. She has a delightfully mischevious personality, amazing character development, and I simply find her character design rather cute She MADE Twilight Princess for me, and turned it into such a memorable and enjoyable experience; if it wasn't for her, it would definitely be my least favorite Zelda game... probably Is that a shallow reason for ranking a Zelda game higher then another, or an understandable one?

On a side note, I actually prefer her impish form as opposed to her true form; as aforementioned I find her impish form pretty cute (not like puppy dog cute, but cute in that she has a darkly appealing character design... though I'm not sure that's the best way to describe her), but her post-game self, though pretty, just makes Midna seem...different, and somewhat alien to me. Do you guys agree? Disagree?

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Thank you! I love writing lyrics to video game music. It's kinda a hobby of mine...But because my mic sucks I can't sing them...

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Agreed Glad to have another Majora's Mask lover on the thread; the game is everely underappreciated by many Zelda fans, which is truly a crying shame, as it is an absolute masterpiece I have an orchestra album of the MM music on my iPod and I must say, it gives me massive feels and nostalgia whenever I listen to its rendition of 'Oath to Order'. I feel like this theme almost represents the game thematically; dark, somber, but with a hopeful undertone. Some people find it depressing, but I love it

On that note, hope Majora's Mask 3D gets released one of these months Here's hoping it gets announced at the next Nintendo Direct

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Aww, that's too bad Still, I find the idea of writing lyrics to video game music actually awesome I'm an aspiring writer myself, but I don't do it as often as I like, and when I do it's nothing special; a poem here, a short story there, nothing specific and not usually relevant to my interests. The fact that you write about something you enjoy -video games, or in this case video game music- is pretty cool; it'd be a fun way to pass the time I imagine, and can breathe new life into tunes that previously were entirely melody and devoid of meaning I should do something like that one day, or at least attempt it; I'm not sure I'd do as good a job, but it'd be worth a shot

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Odd story about Majora's Mask with me though. I've owned it since the year it came out, but never got around to playing it until about 4 years(?) ago whenever it came out on the Virtual Console. Decided to forgo the N64 version and play the VC one because the GCN controller is so much better. Immediately I fell in love with the game. It just had so many amazing things going for it. It instantly became my favorite 3-D Zelda by far. In this game, I felt that, even as a silent protagonist, Link had so much of an underlying personality in this one. Granted, it was left up to interpretation, but this game just did something different that I loved with Link. Instead of building himself up to become the great hero, it's instead the hero being broken down to nothing and finding himself having to pick up the pieces, and as he's helping others and their problems, it helps him as well. It's funny because I'm usually not a fan of abundant sidequests all over the place, but this game handles it right, and it's probably due to the fact that the world of Termina feels interconnected throughout the various areas instead of each being a stand alone area. It adds more to the world for me.

Silly thing too, but I do like the idea of fighting the bosses again if you want to. Heck, I'll sometimes go fight Goht for fun. He's definitely my second favorite boss after Stallord from Twilight Princess. Must have something to do with making the boss fight a fast pace chase. They need to do that more.


@GentlemanGamer: I don't blame you one bit for being shallow and claiming Midna was the reason you hold TP in higher regards. She was a fun character and I'll admit myself that it was because of her that I kept playing.


Probably random for doing this, but if I had to place Zelda games in order of best to least for me from the ones I've played, it'd probably be something like this.

1.) Link to the Past
2.) Majora's Mask
3.) The Wind Waker/ Link Between Worlds
4.) Oracle of Ages
5.) Ocarina of Time / Minish Cap
6.) Oracle of Seasons/ Link's Awakening
7.) Four Sword Adventures
8.) Twilight Princess
9.) Legend of Zelda/ Four Swords (GBA)
10.) Adventures of Link
11.) The DS Zeldas

I'm really not a fan of the DS Zeldas at all, I disliked the touchscreen controls. Overall though, it's really hard for me to rank some Zelda games for me. Stuff I'd rank 1-5 I find a lot of fun to play. 6 and 7, fun to play at times, but I may lose interest, though I admit FSA is lots of fun if you have the complicated setup to do multiplayer. I think I already said enough on TP, and I don't really care for 9-11. I used to rank Link's Awakening higher, but the more I've played it, the more bored I've grown with it, and I dunno why. I have yet to play Skyward Sword (need to get on that!), and I'm honestly really torn on where to rank Link Between Worlds to be honest. I'm really unsure if I like it more than Wind Waker or not. It was a pretty solid experience for me. I think of all of these though, I've played OoT the most! I still enjoy it. I guess this is where I'm feeling right now on the games in the series!

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Can somebody explain to me why people say Majora's story is so great? It may start off as the "Return to your own form" part, but after the introductory first 3 Days, it's the same "Save the World" story as in all the other Zelda games.



Yeah that part always made me so freaking angry. Dipshit, run away! You can be a postman somewhere else! And I think Anju and Kafei don't believe in each other as much as they want me to think, because they obviously don't believe the other would choose to run away from this place that's about to crumble, believe the other is running away too, and can live in another place for a longer and happier time.
What's with this Romeo and Juliette crap?



And that's what bothers me about the Time Limit mechanic in Majora. It's too short, it forces me to go back and undo everything... it basically forces me to replay the game. So I never felt any incentive to play the game again... because I, technically, already did.



You... do realize that in an Action Adventure, which the Zelda games are, they are not RPGs, the focus is put on the adventure you have in the game. Not particularly about the world that you are in or how deep the NPCs are supposed to be. Quite the opposite, they need to be shallow so you can have more fun with the adventure part.



Well, TP's Hyrule Field had the problem that it felt very empty. There were dozens of caves to find and some had some nice puzzles in them - apparently there's more ice block puzzles somewhere. So the overworld wasn't really empty, but because it felt so empty, you didn't really feel like exploring it and finding stuff.



Maybe it's because I don't get it, but TP never felt purposefully dark to me. And I'm the opposite, after a while, I felt like Majora was trying too hard to be dark. Look, this place is dark and sad! And the people are sad! And the DOG is sad! You should totally feel sad for them!

And Zant was a terrible villain... cool at first, but once you know his real personality, you just can't take him seriously, not even if you replay the game. Ghirahim, on the other hand, is what they wanted to do with Zant, but done right. Zant was cool, intimidating and even scary at times, but then became incredibly goofy that it ruined his previous character.
Ghirahim was cool, intimidatnig, but also goofy at times. So when he did goofy things, like that dance towards the end of the game, it's fitting and doesn't ruin his character. I love Ghirahim, from design to voice, Anri Katsu~, to his role in the game. He is such a great villain... unfortunately, that has a problem, too.
Just like Zant was to Ganondorf in Twilight Princess, kind of, Ghirahim was such a great villain that it made the actual big bad, Demise, seem totally bland in comparison.

If I had to list my favorite Zelda games.... Skyward and Twilight Princess would probably share first place. And then Wind Waker... and then no other, because none of the Zelda games I've played next to those made much of an impact on me.
But as for favorite Zelda dungeons overall...
#1 - Ancient Cistern in Skyward Sword
#2 - Arbiter's Ground from Twilight Princess
#3 - Lakebed Temple from TP
#4 - Water Temple from OoT

C-A

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XP Had to mention Majora's Mask again, you'd barely finished arguing with Cat about it on the last page and it's all open again


Though I'm stuck on a Windwaker sidequest right now. The pictobox man wants me to catch a guy sending love letters in the act and yet I can't find it.

Also in other news I can't get a good enough picture of the moon to impress Emo boy. I took a picture of it at night and he said "Oh that's close to what I'm looking for" yet at night it's all he stares at.

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Go to the pier and stand there, pointing the camera at the postbox. Wait until "Mario" arrives to put a letter in and take a picture when he puts it in. As for Loserboy, he wants a picture of the full moon.

C-A

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Coulda sworn I got a full moon picture. Though I take it "Mario" only shows up at night? Perhaps it wasn't triggering because the 'robber girl' sidequest was ongoing.

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No, Mario posts during the day.

C-A

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Agreed with Zant being a terrible Villain, CatMuto. In fact, both villains in my opinion kind of sucked; Zant ended up being really pathetic in the end, and it felt...fitting, but too predictable that Ganondorf ended up being the TRUE mastermind behind everything The plot was good otherwise, but those villains could've been done better

Changing tacks here though... Skyward Sword is your favorite Zelda? Interesting; I played through the first couple hours, but got sidetracked, disinterested and sold it. I thoroughly regret that decision and will at some point get it again What would you say makes SS one of the best in the series, in your opinion?

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For me? Ghirahim, definitely. He is such a fun villain, I'd even go so far as to call him the best villain in the Zelda series for me to date! I always get giddy when he appears because I know he always makes me smile - whether it's because I have fun seeing him or because I like his twisted ideas of S&M and other fantasies he has about Link. And that last one is not me being a yaoi fangirl for those two.

I also love Fi. I know people are constantly on about how annoying she is and that Navi is tame compared to her, but I disagree. Difference between Fi and Navi is that Fi does not block a button I may want to use, like Navi did. And Fi doesn't pop up every 10 minutes if I'm just doing some sidequest stuff or collecting things. Whereas Navi popped up every 10 minutes to remind me to go to the next plot location. Besides, I can perfectly ignore her if I want to. Although I have to say, Fi telling me my hearts are low? Pretty helpful to me, because I have taught myself to be completely deaf to the BEEPING HEARTMETER sound.

I like the motion controls. It's more fun than simply pressing the button over and over. Of course, this was the first game I played that had mandatory motion controls to use, so maybe I am biased, but I think they work really well. Two things I had trouble with, skydiving and stabbing and those are probably because I didn't know motion controls. Once I learned them, I got them.

Mh, also love the dungeon design... the areas are beautiful, some of the quests are fun for me.

Downside for me in Skyward is........ well, the biggest one is Skyward Zelda. I find her utterly pointless, she does nothing actually helpful in the game except give me a harp. I could very easily have enjoyed the game even more, had she not existed. Also, she was made a childhoodfriend of Link's and an obvious crush and that just really gets minus points for me... people say her and Link's romance is like THE MAIN POINT of the game, but I swear, once I reached the surface, that plot point kind of disappeared.

The boss rehash with the Imprisoned was pretty terrible... mostly because of the music. Ditto the music in the Silent Realms. Speaking of the harp that Zelda gives me, that is unfortunately also pretty underused... you need to play certain songs on it, but those are cutscene based playing by simply moving the WiiMote left and right in time with something. You only actually use it 3 or 5 times in terms of actual importance. You can use it for other parts, but... well, you can't really "play" on it.

But the flaws, and some other ones that I probably forgot to mention cause they are so minor to me, are so small that they don't really bother me. I enjoy the game too much. Well, one downside is that it can be tiring on the arm, even if you only flick the wrist for fighting like I do.

C-A

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Hearing you talk about Skyward Sword makes me want to go out, buy it again and replay it While the motion controls had a learning curve to them -a big part of the reason why some didn't like the game- but I enjoyed them well enough and found them brilliantly implemented, I just didn't let myself get used to them. The characters seemed better then in a lot of Zelda games to date, with Girahiram being one of them (though sadly, I didn't get far enough in the game to meet him ). The dungeons, from what I've seen, are well-designed and a lot of fun. Finally, the music was AMAZING as always; it really helped highlight the various scenes in the game and made them that much better In short, I wish I gave it more of a chance; when I take some to think about all it had to offer, I missed out on quite a lot Thanks for talking about the game for a bit; it's always nice to hear different perspectives on the various games in the Zelda series

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Nah, I explored Hyrule Field in TP and got nearly every single heart piece in the game aside from the ones where they involved mini-games that I didn't care for. I ended up hunting for a lot of poes as well, so I'm still standing by my statement. I remember one ice-block puzzle found in the north part of Hyrule in particular, though I know a couple of other ones as well. To me, it just felt empty because I felt it didn't have enough secrets compared to the bigger field of Hyrule that the game brought. Ocarina of Time felt the same way to me too, but on a much smaller scale.

As for why Majora's Mask felt more natural to me in terms of darkness, it had to do with the setup. It starts out in a doomed and dying world, the villain has already been victorious, ripping away your very self that has defined you, and has already unleashed an impending doom on the world. To me, it kinda brings into perspective of "if you only had a few days left to live, how would you spend your life?" mentality. There are a couple of places, I will admit, where the game kinda gets jarring with how it's being portrayed. Mikau's death... But to me, what I find most interesting are people's different reactions to the impending doom. Some are scared, some ignore it, some are ignorant of it, some show regret for how they lived their lives. I think it hit with me because it's relatable. I understand not everyone is going to get it, but it hit with me. To clear things up too, I didn't even touch this game for the first time until after I played TP so I can't attribute the nostalgia factor to my opinions on the game.

As for the postman thing, it seems stupid as to why he won't leave, but I can see the reason why too. His job is important to him and he feels it must prioritize all else, including his life. Believe it or not, where I live where we get hurricanes, we have people like that around here. They refuse to leave despite the risk of getting killed because of their job. It's important. I constantly worry about those who stay to do the news, the cops, the firemen, but it's their sense of duty. I see the postman the same way. Yeah, it's stupid he won't run away, but at the same time, I can understand why and it's something I can respect. Crazy thought, but I know some people out there don't prioritize their life as highly as some others do.

With Twilight Princess, to me, it was like with certain cutscenes and such, it was more there to try to spook you out at random times, which got jarring with me and seemed to be there for no reason other that to try to feel dark. I could have done without the whole Ilia with a knife and the lifeless Link clones scene. It was unneeded, especially reading through the dialogue of that scene, I'm just wondering why they went with the choice to portray it like that. It had to do with the Gods and their betrayal or something. Why represent with creepy character imagery? If they would have gone the route of actually portraying the story told instead of using the cutscene as a means to be symbolic, it probably would have felt more natural to me. Instead, I get creepy laughter and I'm trying to figure out why? This one stands out to me the most as far as being forced goes. There's a couple of times it works, but I found more often than not, it didn't, at least for me. Probably to do with that fact that I couldn't relate to it and I didn't really find the characters in this game to be worth caring about.

With your talk on Skyward Sword though, I'll really need to find time to get into the game. I just have it sitting on a shelf collecting dust because I've been busy beating other games. Sounds like a good time though. I really want to play it for myself so I can formulate my thoughts on it. I'm iffy on the motion controls, but if you're saying they're not bad, then that gives me a bit more of an incentive to try it out.

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GentlemanGamer, you stopped before you met Ghirahim? Does this mean you stopped before you finished the first dungeon or before you even entered it? Because that is a rather bad move, since things do become more interesting when you enter the Skyview temple.

I read a lot of people complaining that the motion controls never work, they aren't responsive and "5 out of 10 times, Link doesn't react" which already sounds like a complete exaggeration to me. But I really don't know what their problems are... I mean, as I said, Skyward was the first game I played where I only could use Motion Controls. And it's not like I'm standing properly when playing the game... often times, I'm hunched over in my computer chair, arms relaxed on top of my lap and just flicking my wrist. And I never had any trouble with them... *shrug*



Oh yeah! Biggest mood whiplash in a Zelda game I've seen. I just can't understand how people can honestly tell me that the entire scene is sad for them... when Mikau randomly has an energy burst and jumps up, strumming his guitar and singing, then collapses on the ground, like the previous thing never happened.



Yeah that scene... I personally never saw that as dark. More like it was simply... weird. It feels out of place, and it makes no sense, I don't think it's ever even brought up again or plays much of a role in the game. So yeah, if somebody tells me TP tried too hard to be dark with that scene... I can honestly say, I tended to ignore that scene.

Then again, I don't know what's worse. Giving me the above scene that is so weird... or having the scenes with Ilia be unskippable. Maybe it's just me, but I just can't care for a character that I'm supposed to help if I have barely had any screentime with them. A reason why I just can't give a crap if Ilia lost her memories or even why I don't care a bit about Zelda in Skyward. So yeah, I know this character - Whoops, they are kidnapped! Quick, you must save them! Yeah I... uh... get to that eventually...
I mean, a reason why I actually cared about the slightly off-topic part in Lufia II about Selan and Maxim going to the Tower Of Truth to ascertain their feelings for each other is because I knew those characters. They've been part of the party for a long time, I even saw their marriage and such, even if it was a bit rushed, but overall it came later, so I actually came to care about them.

You know, I seriously think Ilia had MORE personality when she had no memory...

C-A

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I liked Zant as a character...as a VILLAIN he sucked. But IDK I always had an appreciation for how bad-shit crazy he was. I like crazy characters. His stoic self bored me...Except when you first see his mouth that was creepy as shit. But you know a villain shouldn't bore me at any point. And his motivations sucked! I hated how stupid he was thinking Ganondorf was a god. But his spastic movements and odd behavior made me like his character...IDK

As for Mikau's death...is it bad of me to have laughed every time he said "thank you!" and plopped on the ground...(I'm terrible...) But when he turns into the mask and you pay respects to him at his grave sight, it was very touching.

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I just felt confused because it was an okay sad scene, then he becomes Dixie from Donkey Kong Country 2 and then flops down again and I'm supposed to ignore how he just made the scene unsad.

C-A

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Well no...But I think it was just his personality shining though. It's not whether it's sad or not, but who this person was. That's why that scene was the way it was. He rocked his way to the afterlife...And while I admit it's not a very sad death...I got to know his character though that little scene. He communicates his desires through song and action. So I don't think it was meant to be sad till you played the song of healing. But then again that was just how I interpreted it.

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Post deleted- accidently posted twice

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Last edited by GentlemanGamer on Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hahaha.... yep I kinda figured I missed out by not showing enough patience; just goes to show, you can't always trust first impressions Anyhoo, I'm looking forward to eventually playing it myslf.



I kinda agree with Ucha Nekome here; I felt like Mikau's death wasn't supposed to be overtly serious (well, before you played the Song of Healing), but was rather to give you a feeling for his personality, as well as to realize why the death of this Zora meant so much to his community.

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I completely agree with your opinion on the scene; the scene that they used with the spirit, while I get that it's supposed to be 'symbolic' just felt... weird, especially since they didn't use this type of scene again throughout the game

About Ilia though, I didn't find her THAT bad. I didn't particularly enjoy her character before her kidnapping; a stern girl who's obsessed with horses? Yeah, she DEFINITELY made a positive impact on me - #MassiveSarcasm That said however, I got enough glimpses of kindness from her that it made me care that she was kidnapped and that I wanted to rescue her. After her memory loss though, I too enjoyed her much more after that; without the sternness or the horse obsession, we got more glimpses of the positive bits of her character, and made me care for her quite a bit more afterwards

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Don't I know that. First time I played XIII, I stopped after 20 minutes - right when I started to control Snow in the opening. But I tried a few weeks later, got past that part and enjoyed the game.



I still don't see that, actually... Plus, I don't see why people think those Plot eggs are Mikau's and Lulu's. People just assume that. I got more of a vibe that Lulu had something with that other guy from the band... jarvis? Something like that. And why exactly did they make the death not serious? They made Darmani rather serious. Why not Mikau? Because we actually see him somewhat die? I just felt too weirded out that he jumped up - man, if you had the strength to jump up and sing, you had the strength to get yourself to the beach.

And Ilia, I don't know. I just don't like her. She's so boring. I liked her when she had no memory because she barely had any lines. And I STILL wish I could've skipped that stupid scene where her memories come back. It's like my head is being smashed against a wall, "Look! Look! SO ROMANTIC, THEY TOTALLY LOVE EACH OTHER WITH THE STARING!!!111!!!1!!"

Zelda games need to learn that we don't WANT an official couple for Link. We don't want more than a SHORT hint for a romance. Let the shippers deal with that.

C-A

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A lot Final Fantasy games are sort of like that, in my opinion; have a slow start, but then they hook you in and refuse to let you go, so long as you give it time to grab you.



Good point Wasn't the most touching death in the game, I grant you; it was a lot easier to take Darmani's death seriously then Mikau's. I dunno, I guess a lot if it comes down to interpretations and how much you like a game as a whole; in the case of the latter, even if something about a game bothers you, your willing to let it slide because of the excellence of the rest

As for Ilia...I didn't mind her scenes, but Midna was what made the game for me, character wise; Ilia was okay, but she was excellent In any case though, whether it be Midna or Ilia, I agree with your view on Zelda romance; the games are ADVENTURES with SILENT protagonists- someone who's meant to be your avatar, not a character in his own right- so I don't think too much romance should be involved with Link anyonne else. I didn't mind what the games offered up so far in terms of romance (if you could call it that); hints of romance are perfectly fine, as well as 'sweet' scenes between him and a female. We don't need anything beyond that though; in my opinion, it'd feel unnatural

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Speaking of romance in Zelda, I had read up on Ocarina of Time's development years ago that when the game was first being developed, they originally wanted to put in something akin to a dating sim within the game as like a sidequest or something. It was scrapped early on, but it explains the presence of girls around Link's age aside from Zelda, such as Ruto, Malon, and Saria. I thought it was hilarious, but it's something I'm glad they didn't go through with. I've got to say from a developmental standpoint, Ocarina of Time is definitely one of the most interesting games in terms of all the ideas they originally had for it.

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Right? Right? That's something I'm listing as a problem in my Top 10 Most Annoying Clichés In Videogames! Specifically, I'm talking about Dialoge Options given during scenes in connection with Silent Protagonists, I even mentioned Link. There's a certain scene in Skyward that bothers me because of the dialoge options...



It's something I mention. If the dialoge options are there for us to portray part of our own personality onto the silent protagonist, why give us options that serve no purpose in changing anything, since the options are all the same? If they want to prove with this that the silent protagonist still has a mind of his own, they shouldn't be giving us any dialoge options.

For the above mentioned scene, I think I wouldn't be so annoyed by it, if Link had simply nodded his head instead of those dialoge options. As for romance in the Zelda series, I already gave me view. It's a reason why I dislike Skyward in that aspect, it has hints towards Zelda-Link - which I overall don't ship and I don't really care about it - but... well, it was implemented badly. Feels like the romance is there in the introduction phase, but once you get to the surface... eh, it's kinda not very mentioned at all anymore. On the other hand, the sidequest with the Item Check Girl. We can basically make her our girlfriend - and I liked that, because it's actually optional. If I want to make her my girlfriend, I can. If I don't, I can do that, too.

C-A

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Sounds like it'd be the Persona 3/4 of adventure games if they HAD gone though with it :jake And they did do a good job with the female characters in Ocarina of Time; they were each cute and enjoyable characters in there own right, and were amongst my favorites from OoT.That said, I'm glad they didn't go through with it; it would've just been...weird, and made the series into something it wasn't, a romance. I mean, it certainly would've made the game more interesting-even if you don't like the idea of a Zelda dating sim, you can't say you wouldn't want to see what it was about- but it probably wouldn't have been better for it Though who knows? Maybe it COULD've worked if there is a way to do it right; I don't want to be TOO narrow minded about it one way or the other



Wow, so I'm not the only one annoyed by that I don't mind dialogue options with any sort of protagonist - be it a silent one, or say someone from a visual novel- but I don't like it when they give us 3 of the same options, or give us options but have them lead to the same scenario either way. Either give us a choice or don't; I don't like it when developers try giving us the 'illusion of choice', because then I just end up disappointed. Is this a game breaker? Not really: if a game annoys me instead of frusturating me, then it's usually because it's a small flaw in an otherwise superb experience, and that's the same case with this. Still, it is something that bothers me

Back to romance in Zelda... that's an interesting point you brought up regarding Skyward Sword. I haven't played through it, but find that interesting how romance is an option; by the sound of it, it's not something heavily featured or necessary to complete the game, it's just there if you want to make use of it. As aforementioned, I'm skeptical about romance and Zelda, but if they had done something like this in Ocarina of Time or will implement it in future titles... I wouldn't mind. After all, it'd still be OUR choice, right? There would be that freedom there to choose whether or not we wanted to persue relationships with female characters, and as it wouldn't affect the game too much, it wouldn't be much more then a fun little bonus. If it's done at all in Zelda, THIS is the way to do it methinks

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Well, okay, I want to elaborate something I just remembered... there is one moment where, while all 3 options I was given in a Visual Novel were exactly the same, it made sense and was actually just right for the scene. It's for a certain ending in the Hatoful Boyfriend game. With the heroine's/my head chopped off and bobbing in a jar full of formaldehyde, the only way to "answer" something would be with a nod that means yes.
So... it did a good job there, but other times... well, it doesn't work.

Well if you want to 100% the game and get all Gratitude Crystals (like the Golden Skulltulas from Ocarina) then you will have to either accept or reject the Item Check Girl, otherwise you'd be missing on Gratitude Crystals. So it's still optional, but not really for 100% completionists.
Then again, it'd be like sleeping with every girl in Persona 4 in one playthrough, just to "complete" the game. XD

C-A

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Woah.... I both want to play that game and completely avoid it at the same time, based on that description; it sounds both sinister as well as interesting. Anyhoo, I agree; for the scene you've described, having 3 of the same answers WOULD make sense. I suppose what annoys me about it is that there are many games in the adventure, RPG, visual novel genre that do it to the point and feels unoriginal and pointless instead of amusing. If it's done WELL though, as in the scene you mentioned, then I don't mind it as much; though that said, I only remember instances of this that bother me, so I couldn't mention an example off the top of my head

Haha... yep I could never bring myself to date multiple girls in P4; even though it does help you 'complete' the game and it's all fiction, I'd feel like a complete D-Bag if I did so and it's not necessary to complete the game to begin with (unlike Persona 3 ). So, I just watched romance scenes of the other girls on YouTube and stuck to one BUUUUUUT this is talk for another thread, so I'll leave it at that.

Changing tacks and getting back on topic, I noticed you also mentioned that Twilight Princess is your other favorite While it's not my first choice, it definitely takes the number 2 or 3 spot where Zelda games are concerned; I love the grand, cinematic feel of this game, the dungeons are great, the new items are nice (Double Clawshots? Seriously, why had no one thought of these sooner!? Playing around with these puppies in the STARS mini-game was SO much fun for me ), I enjoy the orchestrated soundtrack (even if there weren't many standout tracks), and it had MIDNA Seriously, this girl is my all-time favorite Zelda character and perhaps the ONLY sidekick in the Zelda games (of the games I've fully completed anyways, the jury's still out on the to-be-played Skyward Sword) that I actually really LIKE having by my side instead of just putting up with her. Anyhoo, that's the reason I enjoy the game, how about you guys?

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