Re: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS
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Thane wrote:
My point was this: in the video I linked, Ganondorf acts like Ganondorf, and it boggles my mind that he's a slow, heavy, all-melee fighter in Super Smash Bros. when he's been shown being able to do...well, do more stuff than pretty much any single Nintendo character.
Well, he was introduced as a clone of Captain Falcon in melee, and then I think they made him slower and 'clunkier' in Brawl to differentiate him from CF more. So when you look at Ganondorf's development in the SSB series, it makes a little more sense; it's not like the SSB development team conceived Ganondorf as a slow heavy melee fighter, that's just what he developed into.
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shippersdreamer wrote:
Thane wrote:
It really doesn't seem like my cup of tea, but I'm definitely going to give it a try. The character designs and movesets are both creative and awesome.
But I've derailed the thread enough. My point was this: in the video I linked, Ganondorf acts like Ganondorf, and it boggles my mind that he's a slow, heavy, all-melee fighter in Super Smash Bros. when he's been shown being able to do...well, do more stuff than pretty much any single Nintendo character.
But I've derailed the thread enough. My point was this: in the video I linked, Ganondorf acts like Ganondorf, and it boggles my mind that he's a slow, heavy, all-melee fighter in Super Smash Bros. when he's been shown being able to do...well, do more stuff than pretty much any single Nintendo character.
I'll be honest I've had a Look and don't Touch relationship with the Warriors franchise, but I'm VERY interested in Hyrule Warriors, and I fully agree that it BAFFLES me that Ganondorf is like that in the video but he's probably one of the worst smash bros characters in recent memory.
That's the thing, the video captures Ganondorf being Ganondorf. I don't know how many people on this forum who enjoy Super Smash also play The Legend of Zelda, but I figure it can't be too many, or this would've been a bigger issue.
I know Twilight Princess is a fairly criticized installment in the series, but the fight with Ganondorf at the end was done just right. He possesses Zelda, flies and shoots balls of light like he always does, abandons her and transforms into a giant pig of nightmares. When that doesn't work out he transforms into a giant ball of energy able to take down Link's superpowered ally, and when he fights Link again, it's on an open field where he attacks via summoning a bloody ghost army, and when that doesn't work he creates a ring of energy so no one can get in or out and challenges Link to a one-on-one sword fight.
All that happens in ONE game, and Ganondorf uses NONE of those skills in Super Smash!
@BadPlayer I can understand making him slower and more powerful, but why is he STILL a clone of Captain Falcon the racer? That's my orignial complaint regarding Ganondorf in the first place: I just want him to use some spells and skills he actually uses in his own franchise.
I mean come on the man is repeatedly called a sorcerer.
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(Yes, he has a bunch of different moves in a bunch of different games, but are any of them really iconic? I guess there's also transforming into a pig, but that's his FS, so...)
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Characters like Captain Falcon didn't even have a moveset prior to joining Super Smash, and yet he's the character Ganondorf is based on. I'm sorry, but I won't buy that argument.
@Pierre that's sort of what I'm hoping, but what are the chances Mr. Sakurai was privy to Ganondorf's Hyrule Warriors design? He may not even want to change Ganondorf's moveset, other than to balance him out a bit (if Bowser is made both stronger and quicker, they bloody well need to alter Ganondorf's speed).
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Hell, he can't even fly; in fact, his recovery is one of the worst in Super Smash Bros.
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Bad Player wrote:
Well if other characters use moves that aren't iconic or even usable by themselves in their games, why can't Ganondorf?
Because Ganondorf already has abilities of his own and none of them are taken into account in Smash Bros. I would understand if he was given Captain Falcon's moves because he had none of his own, but that's not the case. He could be a pretty unique character if they let him fight like he does in the Zelda games but instead he is a slow version of Falcon. It just doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS
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Sir Duke wrote:
And Meta Knight rejoins the fight!
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Re: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS
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shippersdreamer wrote:
Sir Duke wrote:
And Meta Knight rejoins the fight!
He does? Well once again we can behold his power!
I believe he was referring to the pic of the day, which I suppose technically shows Meta Knight:
It could be taken one of two ways: Either the Miis just get costume pieces based on Nintendo characters, or Meta Knight is a secret character and this is Sakurai's sly way of confirming him to the Smash community without being blunt about it.
Thane wrote:
Not everyone's moves have to be iconic. Hell, plenty of characters use moves they're not even capable of performing in their own games/can only be used under certain circumstances. One example would be Robin, who wouldn't be able to both use Nosferatu and a Levin Sword at once.
Characters like Captain Falcon didn't even have a moveset prior to joining Super Smash, and yet he's the character Ganondorf is based on. I'm sorry, but I won't buy that argument.
Characters like Captain Falcon didn't even have a moveset prior to joining Super Smash, and yet he's the character Ganondorf is based on. I'm sorry, but I won't buy that argument.
As far as I've read, the reason Ganondorf is a clone in Melee might have had to do with the fact that he was a late addition to the game, as the numerical values indicating his programming into the game is near the end of the list in the debug menu, like the other clones. It's been theorized they simply took the Captain Falcon model, put a Ganondorf skin on it and altered it to be the way it was in the game. As for Brawl, it's possible that while they had more development time, Sakurai probably didn't want people who played Ganondorf in the previous game to be offput by an entirely different moveset, and so opted to keep the same moves with more tweaks and a different final smash to further separate him from Captain Falcon.
I'm not saying that excuses the fact that his moveset doesn't represent him all that well, or his rather poor combat ability in Brawl in particular, but at least it's a plausible explanation.
Thane wrote:
@Pierre that's sort of what I'm hoping, but what are the chances Mr. Sakurai was privy to Ganondorf's Hyrule Warriors design? He may not even want to change Ganondorf's moveset, other than to balance him out a bit (if Bowser is made both stronger and quicker, they bloody well need to alter Ganondorf's speed).
Given that Sakurai takes inspiration for the characters in Smash from their main games, and more specifically from the most resent ones available, not very likely. And if he did, the fan outcry of him "copying" Hyrule Warriors would be ridiculous. If we're speculating though, there is one option Sakurai has where he could please everyone; he could use Demise instead of Ganondorf. Given that Demise is the villain of the lastest Zelda console game, and was revealed as the origin of the reincarnation aspect of the entire series, he could fill that iconic aspect pretty well.
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CatMuto wrote:
Downside, Demise is an utterly boring villain and forgettable aside from his design. And even that will repeteadly be called "copying" of Akuma from Street Fighter. I can see him maybe using Demise as an alt appearance, but not replacing Ganny with Demmy.
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I completely agree. I was sort of ticked when I learned Ganondorf was just Demise's reincarnation; it somehow makes Ganondorf seem less threatening.
Anyway, Ganondorf is far more iconic than Demise can ever hope to be, so like CatMuto said, it's unlikely he'll ever be more than an alternative look for Ganondorf, similar how Peach can look like Daisy.
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Thane wrote:
I completely agree. I was sort of ticked when I learned Ganondorf was just Demise's reincarnation; it somehow makes Ganondorf seem less threatening.
He isn't the reincarnation of Demise, he's a reincarnation of Demise's hatred. Yes, there's a big difference there.
Then again what do I fucking care, I hate the timelines.
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CatMuto wrote:
Thane wrote:
I completely agree. I was sort of ticked when I learned Ganondorf was just Demise's reincarnation; it somehow makes Ganondorf seem less threatening.
He isn't the reincarnation of Demise, he's a reincarnation of Demise's hatred. Yes, there's a big difference there.
Then again what do I fucking care, I hate the timelines.
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shippersdreamer wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Thane wrote:
I completely agree. I was sort of ticked when I learned Ganondorf was just Demise's reincarnation; it somehow makes Ganondorf seem less threatening.
He isn't the reincarnation of Demise, he's a reincarnation of Demise's hatred. Yes, there's a big difference there.
Then again what do I fucking care, I hate the timelines.
C-A
Because deep down you really DO care?
Much as I hate the timelines and think they're a waste of time to take seriously (cause they add nothing important to the game) I do get annoyed if a fact is stated falsely. Especially if said fact is pretty clearly stated in the game itself.
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Thane wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Downside, Demise is an utterly boring villain and forgettable aside from his design. And even that will repeteadly be called "copying" of Akuma from Street Fighter. I can see him maybe using Demise as an alt appearance, but not replacing Ganny with Demmy.
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I completely agree. I was sort of ticked when I learned Ganondorf was just Demise's reincarnation; it somehow makes Ganondorf seem less threatening.
Anyway, Ganondorf is far more iconic than Demise can ever hope to be, so like CatMuto said, it's unlikely he'll ever be more than an alternative look for Ganondorf, similar how Peach can look like Daisy.
Speaking of which, would much rather have Daisy over Peach in Smash Bros.
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CatMuto wrote:
Ditto. I overall like Daisy more than Peach.
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I think that's because since Daisy isn't with Peach and Mario on Personality Lock-Down, she's able to have something resembling a real personality.
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kwando1313 wrote:
Daisy has a personality?
Well she is pretty much the tomboy version of peach.
Re: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS
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The only Mario character that I feel, canonically, is the most interesting is probably Rosalina. Mario Galaxy gave her a bit of background which was remotely interesting. Still, not amazing by any means, but it's something. This is going strictly by platformers, if I was going by all the games, then Bowser wins easily because of the Mario RPG games. Then again, I don't play Mario for the character traits or engaging story or anything. I play it because it has fun platforming.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)
I feel the same
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kwando1313 wrote:
Daisy has a personality?
dullahan1 wrote:
I dunno. Daisy just strikes me as a more chipper Peach. Her personality is as flat as Peach's if not worse due to her only being in Mario sports games, Mario Kart, and the Mario Party series. She doesn't seem to get fleshed out.
Clearly people've never played Mario Strikers Charged or Mario Golf Toadstool Tour. Those games gave all the characters great expressive personalities. Daisy was the sassy one, with the fiery temper. Her taunts in Toadstool Tour showed off her grumpy side, and her good side (Listen to her taunts, and you'll see what I'm talking about.)
She's different enough to Peach to be a separate character, but in SSB, I'd like it if she was just an alternate costume for Peach, much like Male and Female Robin (with different voices etc.)
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/Spanish theme.
Though yeah Luigi has definitely been given the most development, I especially like him in Super Paper Mario.
Also Daisy's animations from Mario strikers shows you how they paint a personality for her (also dat theme!).
Oh God last one, because all of Waluigi's animations are a delight.
Damn...I hope they make another game like that.
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Re: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS
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Pierre wrote:
Yeah Mario Strikers Charged gives everyone a touch more personality. For example I'm now convinced Luigi is actually a flawless casanova (or at least a fantastic dancer) when he wants to be because of his charming Flamenco
/Spanish theme.
Though yeah Luigi has definitely been given the most development, I especially like him in Super Paper Mario.
Also Daisy's animations from Mario strikers shows you how they paint a personality for her (also dat theme!).
Oh God last one, because all of Waluigi's animations are a delight.
Damn...I hope they make another game like that.
Oh yeah, I loved all the themes in that game! (And Waluigi's fit him so well. ) I'm hoping for a Wii U Strikers! Next Level Games needs to push for it!
/Spanish theme.
Though yeah Luigi has definitely been given the most development, I especially like him in Super Paper Mario.
Also Daisy's animations from Mario strikers shows you how they paint a personality for her (also dat theme!).
Oh God last one, because all of Waluigi's animations are a delight.
Damn...I hope they make another game like that.
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Re: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS
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If you can manage to hold the Special Flag long enough without being interrupted, you'll get a bonus depending on the type of match you're playing. In a timed match, you'll get a KO added to your score, but in a stock match you'll receive an additional stock.
I'm not really sure what to think. This is the first item of its kind in the series so there isn't anything to compare it to. I guess it's a good thing select items can be turned off. Though I imagine a high-damage stock match with this item set to very high would be kind of interesting.
Mijumaru wrote:
She's different enough to Peach to be a separate character, but in SSB, I'd like it if she was just an alternate costume for Peach, much like Male and Female Robin (with different voices etc.)
She's already an alternate costume for Peach, color-wise. The issue with making them like the other swappable characters is that so far they've only been alternate versions of the same character, not two different ones entirely, and only by gender to boot. That really wouldn't work for Peach and Daisy, they'd probably make her a fully fleshed-out character or even a light Peach clone if she's ever to be included as a playable character.
Thane wrote:
That game was so fun to play with friends! How is that game not more famous? Diddy's special move was just awesome.
I enjoyed it too, it's just too bad the online was completely broken in terms of game balance.
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Quote:
She's already an alternate costume for Peach, color-wise. The issue with making them like the other swappable characters is that so far they've only been alternate versions of the same character, not two different ones entirely, and only by gender to boot. That really wouldn't work for Peach and Daisy, they'd probably make her a fully fleshed-out character or even a light Peach clone if she's ever to be included as a playable character.
Yeah she's already demonstrated she's more violent and rougher than Peach, so Peach's 'elegant' style of fighting wouldn't really suit her. Plus Daisy has some unique powers over crystal it seems as she can summon spires of it from the ground in her Special Move and creates a gauntlet from crystals in her Mega Strike. So they'd probably need to do something different if they'd wanted to include Daisy...at least if they didn't want another bunch of fans complaining just like we did with Ganondorf's playstyle not being suitable.
Quote:
I enjoyed it too, it's just too bad the online was completely broken in terms of game balance.
Yeah the instant-guaranteed goals from the likes of Toad, Boo and teleporting characters sort of invalidated 80% of the game mechanics online.
I only used one 'trick' like that when it came to scoring and it was because it was fun and also limited. If I had Daisy's special I run at their goalie, pass the ball to him. Then once he's caught it I use the special and summon the crystals. They hit so hard the Goalie is stunned and the ball is knocked up, then it's a simple volley to score. Sure it's almost guaranteed but I need a Special weapon to do it so I consider it passable compared to the amount of Boos and Dry Bones 'disappearing' past the goalie.
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Re: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS
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Thane wrote:
That game was so fun to play with friends! How is that game not more famous? Diddy's special move was just awesome.
That Red card is EVIL! Especially on Crystal Canyon. My brother used and abused that special!
Also, on Sakurai's post, those Miiverse comments are great:
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Sakurai says how the new item will give you either an extra stock or an extra knockout depending which type of match you're playing, but he doesn't mention the coin battle mode.
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kwando1313 wrote:
People play coin mode?
I did once but just for the achievement.
Honestly I don't think too many people would be sad if they cut that mode.
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It was boring was it in Brawl.
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Meta Knight is back in action:
Sakurai says he's gone through some changes since the last game. Specifically, he mentions that his up special no longer glides, and instead hits opponents twice as Meta Knight spins in a loop in midair:
And the Smash website page for Meta Knight. Some images:
Also, the 3DS Smash website has updated with new info on some stages, basic controls and solo play mode. It includes this little bit here:
This pretty much confirms our "invading force" for this game is the Miis. So from fighting polygons, to wire frames, to alloys, to Miis... I guess that's progress.
Bad Player wrote:
Has coin mode been confirmed? I forget
Not yet, but given it's been in two games so far it's practically a shoe in anyway.
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Smash Bros 3DS XL!
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Also talking about the modes, I kinda hope Stamina Mode returns, I had fun dabbling with that with friends now and then.
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