First of all, while funny and unexpected, Robin's gender confusion makes no sense, and I doubt it's because of cultural barriers. The problem is that it's not even made relevant in the case and no reasonable excuse is ever given; sure, it was a woman's voice we heard on the recording, but they quickly decided she couldn't be the culprit anyway. Oh well, I could accept it playing only a minor part in the case if we were at least given a good excuse, like Robin WANTING to be a man or something, which makes more sense and it's a much more sympathetic excuse.

Secondly, with the parrot, it's not a central theme dragging on for the entirety of the case; it's one cross examination and one or two cute references, and that's that. There's simply no comparison between how well it was handled compared to the orca nonsense.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUUOVls2GkM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=knLCbS02T1Y

(Seriously. When I first heard the Thrill Theme, I couldn't sleep that night. I got shivers and was actually scared of Kristoph. Both games also used setting well, as Apollo Justice's courtroom was darker than the original trilogy)

I think they designed Simon's character first and decided he'd be a convict Prosecutor (and he'd be innocent because Ace Attorney). Athena would have a tragic backstory with a dead parent because she's an assistant. They merged the two and exchanged high-fives. Then, the guy who gives Yamazaki his coffee pointed out that it's very similar to 1-5 and Yamazaki doesn't care

Thing is, I think they could've made 5-5 different enough if they tried, so it's a shame it came out the way it did. They could've had Simon go to prison to protect Aura (who was actually the Phantom in a mask) and then Athena still gets her tragic backstory. It would be worse, but it wouldn't be as similar (and I'm kind of just throwing ideas at the wall)

At the end Darklaw says that Phoenix getting there was "purely accidental" and that after the freighter incident she needed to bring him there, but for what reason? Its not like Darklaw thought she needed Phoenix like she needed Layton (Though in the end they both contributed to solving the mystery and couldnt have done so without one or the other) so why bring him and Maya to labyrinthia and hypnotize them to think they were bakers?

I guess she saw how good she defended Espella and realized how he would stop at nothing to reach the truth and thought he was someone she would possibly need in this quest? Maybe she thought he knew too much and feared Wright would do more snooping into her background and Espella's which is something I could see Maya push Nick into doing.

Edgeworth's (in the end credits) - which I thought was even worse than his voice acting in Dual Destinies.

Seriously, why can't they hire someone who can do a decent Edgeworth voice?

Also, at first it seemed like it was all for research, which was kind of a weird reason to have it turn out that way, then suddenly it was all for Espella's sake and the research thing kind of just happened along the way, and then it was Eve as well and ok.

when they brought the golden Layton into the courtroom, the arm was missing and Phoenix just went "Was it damaged in transition?" while Luke was all "PROFESSOR!!"

It was because Phoenix and Maya found the book. Espella was supposed to keep it with her, but because Phoenix opened the book, Darklaw had no choice but to knock them out. Her actions were indeed questionable... but it's part Professor Layton. What else would you expect, other than a billion things that have no explanation?

I beat the game so I guess I'll give my thoughts. I haven't read the thread yet so sorry if I repeat stuff

I really, really, really hate to say this. This is definitely my least favorite Ace Attorney game yet. I think the gameplay side of things went fine and it's probably one of the stronger games in the series when it comes to that, but this is by far the worst story in any AA game I've ever experienced. In fact, I wouldn't even call the story "bad on AA standards." I'd just flat out call it bad

I was enjoying the game (particularly Chapters 5 and 6) even though I never quite felt *hooked*. The final trial was by far the worst case in the entire series, though. I know people don't like Case 5 of DD or Case 5 of AAI and you guys can say what you want about those, but at least those didn't ruin the entire game

I mean, holy shit. This was just a terrible, terrible, nonsensical twist. It's one of those rare twists that just sours the entire experience of the game, at least for me. Like, the amount of plot holes it creates are just unforgivable. I've only played two Layton games and I know this kind of twist is traditional for the series, but would it really be that hard to make a mystery with fantasy elements (the Folsense twist also made no sense, but I thought it was cute how Luke and Layton's fantasy town was a town full of puzzles)? Like, did it have to have a realistic explanation? This twist makes the entire game fall flat on its face and I just can't take it seriously anymore. It's the only game I'll never have any desire to replay

I'll admit I might've had high expectations being a fan of both series and the game being written by Shu Takumi, though

Plotholes/Things that pissed me off:
1. How did the statue throw Carmine's car in the opening?
2. What did Layton and Luke see when the witch smashed through the window and during the encounter on the bridge?
(These above two make me think that magic was going to be real, but the studio sunk too much money in the opening cutscenes so they had to deal with it)
3. Why did Cecil and Petal never run around and smash their faces into the invisible bell tower?
4. Why did Cecil and Petal not run and smash their faces into any of the invisible objects?
5. How did Luke catch Espella and Darklaw with a crane?
6. The truth is revealed, Espella tries to kill herself, she gets saved, and all is right with the world. Espella certainly won't try to kill herself again......


?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!??!!?!?!?

7. Why the fuck would the Storyteller receive more funding for the Labryinthia Project if every single person involved in the last one died in a horrible fiery death?
8. The investors fund the second project. Why didn't they destroy the bell tower?!??!!?!?!?
9. Why did Newton build the bell tower??!?!!? Why would he build a mechanism to ring it??!?!?! The Storyteller said he wanted to ring it "on festivals." Why??!?!?! Why would you knock everyone out during a festival?!?!?!?!
10. First witch trial: Robbs and Muggs are Shades so they never died...I think? Anyway, let's go with that since I think that's what the game was explaining. Kira casts Dimere so the Shades around her knock her unconscious with the bell (and presumably Espella, too, since she was nearby). The Shades drape Kira in an invisible cloak and then her and Espella wake up at the exact same moment, I guess (Espella should find it mighty suspicious that she's covered in mud. That, or the Shades decided to wash her clothes while she was unconscious). Kira doesn't notice the cloak is on her for some reason. She now casts Ignaize. At this point, the Shades either knock out everybody in the immediate vicinity (witnesses included), set up pyromaniac equipment, revive everyone (again, somehow at the same time, and the witnesses aren't suspicious that they have to get up from the ground and are covered in mud), start the pyromaniac show, Kira runs away, casts Ameer, the Shades knock everyone out again, take the cloak off of Kira, revive everyone (THEY ALL WAKE UP AT THE SAME TIME), and then Kira returns to the crime scene. Holy shit. The Shades did that or they carry pyromaniac equipment around at all time and had it set up by Robbs and Muggs because they knew Kira would use it at that exact spot a meter from them....for some reason. I don't know which one is more implausible.
11. Sir Belduke's death. Jean should've noticed Belduke's corpse was eerily cold when she strangled him to death
12. Sir Belduke's death. Jean casts Godoor on the wall. The witches knock Jean out, cut a hole out of the wall, and revive her. Five minutes later, they have to close the "portal." They knock Jean out, fill the hole with plaster, and it takes so long for walls to mend that they presumably had to keep Jean in a hospital bed with a food tube keeping her alive for the next 48 hours. But wait, the mail courier said she visited Belduke the night before he died, so the Shades had to knock everyone in the town out just to fix the stupid wall so nobody would notice anything is amiss
13. Layton's goldening. Same shit that I won't go through. This one is absolutely critical with the witnesses "waking up at the same time, though." If everybody was knocked out and say, Luke woke up first, he'd see quite a sight when everybody trailing behind him is now unconscious. Even if everyone woke up at the same time, they'd still notice that they're all on the floor. Also, the wall would have to be fixed again so looks like everybody is getting a medically induced coma while the Shades wait for that wall to heal
14. Fire dragon summoning. Not gonna bother going into detail. Everybody in the town would have to be knocked out
15. Jean turns a cow into gold. Unlike Layton, the Shades couldn't have prepared for this. They'd have to knock Jean out (AND THE ENTIRE TOWN) in the time it would take to smelt a gold cow
16. Layton and Luke were never hypnotized the same way Phoenix and Maya were. They should've seen the machines
17. The Storyteller is dying from a disease! Oh no! What a last minute twist! Don't worry, there's a cure! O-O-o-ok....what was the point of bringing it up, then?

I'll stop there even though there's more. Ah, fuck it, I won't

18. I understand Jean was upset but why didn't she read the note? She basically killed Belduke on a hunch (and it was incorrect...)
19. How did the Storyteller control the knights Layton had to fight? He either had the Shades knock Layton and Luke out, move each knight half a centimeter (in crude claymation style), revive them, knock them out, move the knight, knock them out, etc. OR he can control the machines through his quill and book...I call bullshit on either
20. Who knocked Olivia out? Presumably Darklaw, but it was weird how the game kept reminding us of that hanging mystery and then never actually said the answer
21. Why don't Layton, Luke, Phoenix, or Maya ever say, "Man, how are we going to get out of this town and back home?"
22. Phoenix and Luke help Espella escape and become wanted criminals. Espella is captured and then Phoenix is no longer wanted for some reason
23. When Darklaw is told to reveal the scratches on her neck, why didn't she just have her Shades knock everyone in the courtroom out (I guess she couldn't do it to Kira cause she was a Shade, too) and then wait a good few days for the scratches to heal?
24. Why didn't the Shades' footprints show up on the bell tower steps?
25. And finally, just one thing that pissed me off, the final trial was WAAAAAAAAAY too long. Once I found out the magic wasn't real, I just started getting really bored. When the Storyteller mentioned it was a research facility, I just started speed reading through the rest of it and it just. kept. going. It's a worst offender than Turnabout Ablaze

I'll actually stop there now. Anyway, my point is that I was enjoying the game until the twist. The twist made the script reek like it was made up as it went along and had little effort put into it

Also, when Jean was revealed as the villain, I was gonna label her "Most Failed Attempt at a Sympathetic Villain Since Acro" but the twist actually made me realize that she might be the most sympathetic character of the series. She was presumably very young when she entered the town and never consented to be brainwashed (her parents would do that). The Storyteller decided it would be a good idea to make a little girl a witch despite the social stigma attached to it and the trauma she would no doubt endure as a result (and he can relate to attempting to get a little girl past her trauma). Jean cast a spell and the Shades thought she cast it on a goat. Oh well. They make the gold goat and then THE LITTLE GIRL TRIES TO KILL HERSELF AND THE SHADES STAND THERE AND DO NOTHING. Belduke, instead of deciding this experiment is way too much for her and setting her and her family free from the town, he makes her a boy. Newton and Arthur, you're both assholes

I also didn't like how we never really got to investigate that much for a specific case. We'd get a cutscene of an incident and then immediately go to court. This made it so I never felt like the mystery was getting deeper and deeper. I actually felt like it always got more logical as the game went on and I could figure out the twists kind of quickly. I also didn't like how all of the motives besides the last one were afterthoughts, just like DD

I also thought it was weird how Darklaw was in the entire game but only said like two lines until becoming insanely relevant in the last case. Barnham was handled really sloppily but in the opposite way. He failed to make much of an impression of me. Most boring Prosecutor/Rival ever

ALSO, ESPELLA IS THE MOST BORING CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE SERIES

Ok, now I'm done

I do feel bad about ranting at the game because there are things I like. The twist just ruined a lot of those things. Anyway, I will name what I like

I always loved Layton and Luke as an investigative duo. There's just something very endearing about Luke's eagerness to solve some puzzles with the Professor and it just very...cute. Do I dare say that I think they're a better duo than Phoenix and Maya? Also, I liked the way the game mixed up the duos. Phoenix and Luke and Maya and Layton both worked great with each other, especially with the former. This game actually treated Luke pretty amazingly

The scene where Maya died...eh. I wasn't too concerned because I knew it was fake. It did break my heart, though, seeing Phoenix so broken after the fact but trying to keep it together for Luke and Espella. The music box melody actually nearly made me tear up

The mob examinations were great but I wish we could contradict testimony more than three times in the whole game. I also wish the game didn't tell when you could contradict testimony. Anyway, the highlight of the game for me was definitely the vigilante cross-examination. I feel like there was a huge missed opportunity with making Emeer one of the vigilantes, though. I thought the entire case besides the core four was pretty forgettable, but Emeer was one fucking hilarious witness. When Barnham protested against bringing in the neighbor, I thought it was typical Prosecutor bullshit but laughed my assed off when Emeer ran onto the stand

Also, the music and animated cutscenes were top notch

That doesn't make much sense, though. If she saw Phoenix and Maya opening the book, she didn't have to knock them out. She could've just said, "Sorry. That's mine. Can I have it back?" and they would think nothing of it. By bringing them to Labyrinthia, she compromised everything. I also have a hard time she could knock out a teenager and a grown man in the middle of a prestigious courtroom and then drag them out

1. That's explained in a DLC chapter (the statue is a robot)
3. & 4. The pure black things are not actually invisible, so people subconsciously see them and subconsciously avoid them.
5. Presumably Layton and Luke read the de-hypnotizing spell before the final trial started, so they were able to see the machines and Luke probably entered the crane when he saw the girls were about to fall.
9. When they build the bell tower, they didn't know that the bell would made people faint. They had just found the bell in the ruins, and it looked nice so they wanted to make a tower for it. It's only after the tragedy that they learned about the fainting disease.
16. What makes you think they weren't hypnotized? Even if they didn't forget their past like everyone else, they could have been partially hypnotized.

I'm not going to try and explain the rest of your points, because a lot of them bothered me as well. The final part of the game didn't ruin the whole game for me, but I really don't like it.

1. The statue being a robot still seems like a plot hole to me, considering that it wasn't explained in game. It's like a last minute save by Takumi because his original plan for the story was different from what he ended up writing
3/4. They can't see the machines, though. When you play as any of the main characters, you can't see them either. The machines are invisible. The invisibility cloaks did the same thing. Even if people subconsciously avoided them, citizens should still see the shadows
9. Yup. I was wrong on this one. Thanks
16. Eh...the timeline's a little clunky on this one but I can accept it

Well sure, it is a Layton game but I don't really think it's necessary to sacrifice the story for the sake of that. We don't really need another "the town is fake" twist and this is the most illogical one by far (though I haven't played Unwound Future). Takumi should've known better

The concept of magic in trials was really cool and it makes me all the more sad that it's revealed to be fake in the end because it means we won't get a sequel with similar concepts

I don't think the game is terrible but it is my least favorite Ace Attorney by a long shot. The only *bad* things I'd say are the story and characters (aside from main four), but those are two pretty big things that can't be ignored

I do enjoy the game for the character interactions, though, and while the puzzles weren't exactly....puzzles, they were fun enough and i also enjoyed mob examinations. I definitely wouldn't say no to a sequel, though I think it'd be nice to bring in some of the supporting cast. It would be great to see Gumshoe and Chelmey meet or have Edgeworth call Barton up as a witness

Actually, I'm pretty sure a gigantic fake town is a Layton necessity; I've yet to play a Layton game without one.
(I will not mention (here) which Layton games I have and have not played, however, to try to spare you spoilers to some extent.)


PS: In my personal headcanon, in the Laytonverse, literally every single town in the world except London is actually a fake town that's part of some massive hoax.

I'd like a sequel with more witch trials too, but you also had to know that there was gonna be something up, because real magic (or witches and the way it's done in Labyrinthia, at least) just wouldn't really square with either series.

I personally chalk that up to Layton. There has been a single compelling character in all of the Layton games I've played, and Layton stories have always been silly things with gigantic, idiotic-if-you-actually-think-about-it twists. So if you expect the (relative) realism of Ace Attorney in a Professor Layton story... yeah, you're gonna be disappointed.

Basically, I don't think it's really fair to judge PLvAA as an AA game alone, because it isn't.

I'm assuming you only played the first trilogy then.

I'm not saying the game couldn't have had a twist. The town could've been fantasy-like, but still have the twist that everybody is under the influence of hypnotism (which is why they follow the story. Magic is still real). All Layton games have plot holes, but I don't think Takumi should've attempted the "fake town" twist if he couldn't execute it well because he didn't and the game is worse for it. It made way more plot holes than Diabolical Box (and the only huge things that bothered me in Diabolical Box were people dying when they opened the box because of a rumor and the fact that everybody hallucinated the same people and things)

I also think the beginning makes it clear that the fake town twist wasn't planned from the beginning

I disagree, actually. When the game was announced, people weren't saying, "Magic and Ace Attorney? It doesn't fly." They were saying, "Witch trials are the perfect setting for a crossover." I mean, AA has spirit channeling and is set in the same universe as ghost trick. Layton has so much pseudo-science that it might as well be magic

Plus, it's a crossover. Introducing magic into the mix won't hurt either franchise. The game is supposed to be a little less serious

What about Flora? (Yes, I'm kidding)

The games could've done some from Column A and some from Column B, though. Espella, Barnham, Darklaw, and the Storyteller were all pretty boring, but we could've had some witnesses with a little more character to them. I immediately knew Jean was the killer when she started to become a little more relevant than the other supporting characters

The game didn't have to have forgettable characters because it was half of a Layton game. It should've had a good chunk of memorable ones because it was half of an Ace Attorney game. That's why I don't think it needed the fake town twist either. AA has never had a twist like that and this is half an AA game. It's not like Layton wouldn't have had more than his fair share without the twist. He gets his puzzles, his apprentice, he gets to upstage Phoenix in court, Phoenix never upstages Layton on the puzzle field, Layton is praised for his genius, and Phoenix isn't

I actually enjoyed it. I love mysteries especially fun ones. While there where some plot holes, most of them are addressed in the DLC, which by the way was hilarious can't wait till more comes out. (So much 4th wall breaking) What was really important was that the game explained MOST of the important questions I was asking. Though the not seeing pure black thing sounded complete BS to me, if those machines where in fact "Pure Black" you wouldn't see machines just black silhouettes of machines. The fact that you can see lines and bolts is proof that light is bouncing off of them. As for the machines themselves how come no one ever ran into them? Also in the beginning, Professor Layton and Luke weren't under hypnosis...Unless just looking at the Laberynthia Historia did it...It could have very well been written in that weird ink. Which would explain why Phoenix and Maya fell for it too. But despite that you'd think a bunch of people running around in "Pure Black" cloaks trying to kidnap a girl. Meh, I might be over thinking this...I heard some people complain that this game is boring, all I can say is I have no clue what the hell they where talking about. I found it highly entertaining, and the middle was very emotional. As for Espella, I honestly felt like she was just there to be saved with no other purpose to the story. Maybe if she had more of a personality...I loved her cat though. The "villain" was awesome, I loved her design. The whole story behind the town was creative as well as how it all linked together. The middle when the third trial ended was very emotional. I cried, even though I knew everything was fine. (I mean come on did you REALLY think they would kill Maya or Layton.) But it was Phoenix's reaction that did it. As someone who only played half way through a Curious Village, I found the Layton parts to be fun and even exciting at times. When the game left one story as a cliffhanger I always wanted to go back and see what was going on no matter what part of the story I was at. Layton himself is a unique character I rarely see. He seems to be able to see the pros in a person before the cons. He could be standing before the most annoying person on the planet and he would have the patience to hear him out. Luke wasn't nearly as annoying as I thought he'd be and he was the most pleasant person to interrogate. (Meaning he's the only one who didn't lie. And actually helped more than he hurt.) There seemed to be almost this instant sense of comradery between the four of them. I like how Layton is able to see what Phoenix has never been able to see in himself, and that's his power to think crazy. Maya and Luke are each unique with their own special abilities, which I wish they showcased more. Also Edgeworth's cameo at the end was boss.

I love the moment about midway through the story where Maya and Layton pretty much left the story for a while. The emotion Phoenix had they're really got to me, like when he was yelling at Barnham to bring Maya back i could feel how angry he was through hi's text, i feel as though that part should have been voice acted.

1) I think there's a difference between "Witch trials are the perfect setting for a LaytonxAA crossover" and "Witches and real magic totally work in Layton/AA." While AA has spirit channeling and Layton has Luke talking to animals, neither has magic to the extent of Labyrinthia.

While Fey magic is a big part of AA (or the original trilogy, at least), it's nothing more than a plot device--there's only a single case in the entire franchise that relies on it (and before you say "what about 2-2," that only relied on the idea/belief of spirit channeling)--so I think there'd definitely be a difference between having magic in the sense of spirit channeling in AA, and then real magic to the extent it's present in PLvAA.

I also think there's a fine line between being "a little less serious" and "HEY LET'S ADD REAL MAGIC TO TWO COMPLETELY SEPARATE FRANCHISES OUT OF NOWHERE" xD

2) If you look at each individual case, they're very AA-ish, but the overarching story as a whole is very Layton-ish, I think, and I also understand not giving the entire story to AA.

also c'mon, it's not like either franchise is known for having subtle villains

You're right, the game didn't have to half a mediocre cast just because it was half-Layton, and it would've been great if it only took the best of each franchise, but like I said before I think it's a bit unfair to criticize it basing it on the full AA standard when it's half Layton.

(Actually I thought Espella and Storyteller were fine. Espella wasn't character of the year or anything, but I thought her self-loathing, persecution, and sacrifice was enough. Darklaw and Barnham were definitely subpar, and it's unfortunate because to fix them all they really needed was something for Darklaw to do in case 2 or 3 and something for Barham to do in case 4.)

Agreed I cried during that part. And the bar scene after when they played the music box version of Turnabout Sisters I was bawling at that point. Even though you knew that Maya was fine, Phoenix's reaction alone was enough to pull an emotional response.

By the way, which single case are you talking about: 1-2 or 3-5? :P

Yeah, there shouldn't be such a thing as "real" magic, but as JM mentioned, the return to reality from a mystical world definitely has room for improvement. I like the idea of using mass hypnotism, and the hallucinogen gas could still have a role. Of course, this site should be evacuated in case of any irreversible memory damage. It'd be pretty sad to end like that, though.

A little WTF, though it does follow the pattern of the first three Layton (not prequel) games. THE TOWN IS A LIE. The setting was pretty cool though. I felt a bit teased when it turned out the witch deaths were fake. For the first four or five chapters, I was actually thinking, "holy SHIT this is dark for a Layton game." I should have known better.

I did like the reason why the town was started -- as a way to bring Espella out of her catatonic state. I have to confess the "Eve did it!" revelation was a bit lame, or wasn't executed well. I could see it happening, but something about it just didn't sit well with me. Maybe I was expecting something crazier, even if the "SILVER BELLS MAKES THE PEOPLE FAINT AFTER DRINKING THE WATER" was crazy enough.

Too many people on drugs in these games, man.

That Barnham is a sexy beast. Almost as much as Edgeworth.

I get that Labyrinthia is supposed to be a no-logic, throw-witches-in-fire kind of court, but during the times you were supposed to use logic, there was too much "why isn't this stupid evidence counting here" or "I don't know where the hell you're going with this, but whatever." I probably collected all the hint coins so in the end, it probably didn't matter.

I found the multiple testimonies, the other witness' reactions, and conflicting testimonies surprisingly refreshing. At least until the ten-vigilante testimony.

I'm surprised there didn't seem to be as many this time. Okay, so they can't fit in their normal 150 within the game, but there were so many hint coins, I would have expected a few more puzzles, like close to 100. Maybe I missed a couple, though according to the destination screen, I got all the hidden ones.

Phoenix's VA was okay, but I'm not sure it was fitting.

Maya's sounded a bit old.

Luke's VA this time didn't sound like shit, but I'm not sure why he sounds like he's 8.

Espella's was great as long as she wasn't tackling puzzles.

Edgeworth's VA for his cameo somehow ended up even shittier than the one he has for DD. WTF. Even for "faux English" the "accent" was way too much.

Everyone else's was sufficient. The mailer cracked me up with her deafening "SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIR!"

I'm going to guess this game is either not canon, or else takes place between early 2018 and early 2019. That is, if Nick still has his badge a year after these events.

Cute Godot reference.

Incidentally, what the hell were they doing with this game, that it took this long to come to North America? It's not like they changed any of the spelling from the British English. Not that it kept me from enjoying the game, but the delay is just weird.

Especially after the third trial. I knew Maya and Layton were gonna make a comeback... but whenever someone says something along the lines of "killed Layton", I laugh; and of course the thought that they "killed off Maya" was so... Idek how to react with that one. It's so amusing

I'm disappointed that nothing from the first teaser got in the game though. I've been looking forward to Phoenix saying: "I don't like that top hat guy."

Did you know your eyes have a permanent blind spot each? Yet we never notice it because our brains automatically fill in that missing information the eyes don't see. I assume it's the same with the invisible machines. They don't see anything where the machines are, so their brains automatically fill in the 'shadows' by extending the background behind it.