GK3 Ideas : Courthouse Steps

Re: GK3 Ideas

Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:53 am

Nearavex

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...That's kinda exactly when I wouldn't by the game - I don't see how this could go well.

Re: GK3 Ideas

Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:52 pm

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What? To the idea of an extended timeline or giving Blackquill his own game? Honestly, I don't see a problem with either as long as the former actually expands on developments toward GS5 (rather than just give him more cases to solve in the meantime) and the latter isn't just a cop out to introduce a new character as a main.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:12 pm

Nearavex

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There's a thing that I doubt any good would go with Blackquill as a protagonist, just that. I'd still watch the videos, but... I just don't think I'd enjoy it, even though I have nothing against Blackquill himself.

Re: GK3 Ideas

Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:57 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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It's probably because the best prosecutor to use the Logic mechanic is still Edgeworth. His motif is chess, and he's an expert at playing mind games with his opponents.

Meanwhile, Franziska gets to whipping people when things don't go her way, Blackquill is probably ditto but with his invisible sword or Taka, and Klavier... he ends up playing Rhythm Heaven or something. (It's like every one of his interrogation sessions can become a concert rehearsal at some point. ~headcanon'd)

The only other one suitable to that mechanic would be Nick, but he's not a prosecutor and would probably still be unemployed at some point during this game. On the other hand, he would make an interesting witness. In fact, he'd be the only witness who could actually counter Edgeworth's train of thoughts or even lead him on. Oh, the irony.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:12 pm

Going for Miles

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Quote:

Blackquill is probably ditto but with his invisible sword or Taka, or Klavier

Was what I read. And now I can't help but imagine Simon with Klavi joyfully yapping besides him. "Kill, Klavi, kill!"

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)

Re: GK3 Ideas

Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:16 pm

Ash

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So I finished Sherlock Holmes: Crimes & Punishments in the weekend and it borrows a bit from the GK mechanics, but uses them much better. The deduction system is kinda like the Logic system (combine keywords to generate new insights), but you can also come up with wrong insights, which in turn lead to wrong conclusions. In fact, it's actually possible to arrest the wrong person in this game (which the game counts as having finished the case. It does not outright tell you if you're right or wrong unless you specifically want to check your conclusions). I've been crying for a GK game where you can make wrong deductions with the Logic system and here another game brings me that! And there's the imagination function in Crimes & Punishments, which allows Holmes to visualize movements based on the evidence he has gathered (i.e. Little Thief). But it feels much more natural / less super high tech here and it has more potential, because Holmes' imagination can be used for deductions about the past, but as well as the future.

I kinda hope that some of these upgrades find their way in the GK series someday...

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:57 pm

JesusMonroe

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Nearavex wrote:

There's a thing that I doubt any good would go with Blackquill as a protagonist, just that. I'd still watch the videos, but... I just don't think I'd enjoy it, even though I have nothing against Blackquill himself.

I love Blackquill and he's one of my favorites, but he absolutely would not work as a main character. He works well as part of the ancillary cast. The playable characters need to be "normal", which is also why I think a Gumshoe or Ema game wouldn't work

Even though I don't like Klavier, I actually don't think he'd be terrible as a playable character. I also think Yumihiko and maybe Shi-Long Lang could work (a lot of doubts on the latter, but I think it could work). I was also thinking about Franziska, but ended up deciding that I'd rather have her be one of the focus characters of the next game, while not being playable

I still think a GK game playing as Hobonodo would be cool, though

Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:38 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Ash wrote:

So I finished Sherlock Holmes: Crimes & Punishments in the weekend and it borrows a bit from the GK mechanics, but uses them much better. The deduction system is kinda like the Logic system (combine keywords to generate new insights), but you can also come up with wrong insights, which in turn lead to wrong conclusions. In fact, it's actually possible to arrest the wrong person in this game (which the game counts as having finished the case. It does not outright tell you if you're right or wrong unless you specifically want to check your conclusions). I've been crying for a GK game where you can make wrong deductions with the Logic system and here another game brings me that! And there's the imagination function in Crimes & Punishments, which allows Holmes to visualize movements based on the evidence he has gathered (i.e. Little Thief). But it feels much more natural / less super high tech here and it has more potential, because Holmes' imagination can be used for deductions about the past, but as well as the future.

I kinda hope that some of these upgrades find their way in the GK series someday...

Man, that Sherlock Holmes is a badass. But what I take from the DGS trailer and demo is that Sherlock Holmes becomes a silly, naive man-child who may actually be dependent on Iris' income.

If they ever incorporate this mechanic, I would be overjoyed (whee! more dialogue text to explore!), but I wonder how the GK games could work with making wrong arrests. First of all, the penalty system would be void because we'd know which options are wrong thanks to it. The problem is we, as the players, might not always know which suspect is the guilty one, so arresting the wrong suspect won't feel like it's wrong, unless the game makes it obvious that "something isn't quite right", but forces us to make the arrest anyway because we've already traveled too far on the wrong path.

Yeah, we could just restart the case and choose a different train of thought to keep going. Yet, if we should expect anything from Capcom, it is that they are lazy. And that probably means, if we ever get a mechanic like this, we're going to meet with the same generic Game Over screen over and over until we get the right person.

On the other hand, it would raise the stakes in this game for once. You have a danger of leading your own investigation astray, and a certain blue suit gets to laugh in your face for your failure. (Or if Nick is out, we could replace him with Kristoph, who coincidentally also wears a blue suit.) Shameless cameo is shameless, but *gasp* has a legit reason to be there! Or not. It could go either way.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:29 pm

Ash

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Quote:

Yeah, we could just restart the case and choose a different train of thought to keep going. Yet, if we should expect anything from Capcom, it is that they are lazy. And that probably means, if we ever get a mechanic like this, we're going to meet with the same generic Game Over screen over and over until we get the right person.

They could make a visual novel of GK3. That way, they can keep development costs down despite the multiple route system and people would stop calling the GS series a visual novel because they finally realize that GS is a command style adventure and not a visual novel :D

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:20 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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I just imagined GK3 becoming like GS5's Turnabout Quiz

Spoiler: just in case

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:25 pm

Ash

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

I just imagined GK3 becoming like GS5's Turnabout Quiz

Spoiler: just in case

Whereas GS6 will reveal that

Spoiler:

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:46 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Spoiler: Wait...

This makes me happy on so many levels.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:03 am

Nearavex

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Quite the opposite here, since DD was there to fix AJ's damage.

Re: GK3 Ideas

Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:31 pm

Ash

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Personally, I think GS5 did much more damage to the series potential than GS4.

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: GK3 Ideas

Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:32 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Oh, but there is plenty to be happy about.

Spoiler: DD? No, not really

Not unrelated, but having the Mason System play a role in a GK game would be interesting, to say the least. I dunno what purpose it'd serve, but it'd still be interesting.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:45 pm

Nearavex

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Ash wrote:

Personally, I think GS5 did much more damage to the series potential than GS4.

Huh? What do you mean exactly?

Re: GK3 Ideas

Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:16 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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> Apollo starring in his own game = start of a new story
> Phoenix as main character =/= new story
> Athena starring in not her own game = interlude

There's definitely new direction to take with DD, but it feels like the series is being forced off from its original course. Whether or not that's a good thing remains to be seen.

For comparison:

> Edgeworth starring in a third spinoff = GK trilogy
> Klavier/Blackquill/Franziska starring instead = GK duology + others

They're all just spinoff games anyway, but I think it's best to keep to a single course before jumping into everything else. ("Ace Attorney Rhythm Heaven" sounds oddly appropriate as a game with Klav, though.)

And for completion's sake:

> Nick's ancestor starring in DGS = ~~remake of PLvsAA~~ new story, new direction, lots of potential
> Sherlock Holmes, Iris Watson = fanservice

This is why this game will hit the top seller list next year... in Japan. I expect sales topping even GS5 in its first week.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:49 pm

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I agree with the above. AJ and DD BOTH were supposed to be "the start of a new era"... Except AJ has already done that, so DD has to ignore practically everything that happened to kick-start the series a second time.

Honestly, I don't know what a third GK game would cover. It could tie the GK series back into the main story, which would be nice. It could end where DD begins and detail some interesting activities. Otherwise I wouldn't know where else to take the series. Edgeworth seems to have gotten all of his dilemmas handled, so it might revolve more around Kay's story and where she's going.

Re: GK3 Ideas

Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:37 am

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Usually the Chief wouldn't stop by a courtroom unless it's super important.

Exactly. Edgeworth mentions that it's "highly unconventional for a man of his position to stand in court." So that means he cannot prosecute a case at all, except under certain circumstances.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:29 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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I just realized. If Gyakuten Kenji 3 comes out featuring Chief Prosecutor Edgeworth and it becomes less of an investigation game and more of a management sim, the Japanese title would still apply (creating turnabouts in management and the workforce!), but the English one might not. That is, unless for some reason or another Edgeworth still stops by the crime scenes "unofficially" and investigates them from there.

Of course, it'd probably be a better idea to make a game that somehow connects those missing seven years between T&T and AJ, but man, the above sounds so tempting.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:28 am

Ash

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Nearavex wrote:

Ash wrote:

Personally, I think GS5 did much more damage to the series potential than GS4.

Huh? What do you mean exactly?

Whereas GS4, even if flawed, tried to do a lot of new stuff (new cast, music genres, non-contradiction based court gameplay, new types of storytelling, more innovation in cases), GS5　just said hold it to all that and is more a very predictable continuation of what had already been done earlier in the series. And I guess they'll just continue with this line, instead trying something new. I'm so glad at least Takumi Shuu tries to keep us on our toes.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:20 am

dimentiorules

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I have an idea for a case: A murder at a mall. You could have different shops in the mall that can be investigated, with the shopkeepers as witnesses. You could have a hunting goods store with an Australian theme, and have an Australian woman named Sheila Razorback as a witness, who puts Australian terms into her speech. There would be a toy store with a toy gun that gets loaded with real ammo and is revealed to be the murder weapon. The case could be called "Turnabout Shopper".

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:14 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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I like this one. In fact, I think it'd have a nice dynamic if one of the witnesses is guilty of some other lesser crime like theft or scamming, but of course, is suspicious enough to become a murder suspect. This sort of case could have all sorts of false alarms or red herrings thanks to the bustle of the mall, and especially so if the crime scene isn't where it seems to be. Also, Larry becomes a suspect because he's there. It's the perfect excuse to get Edgeworth running around in circles, I'd say.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:48 am

CaptainCanti

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Better idea: Larry becomes a suspect in every case, just to get Edgeworth running around in circles.

Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:58 am

Ash

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dimentiorules wrote:

You could have a hunting goods store with an Australian theme, and have an Australian woman named Sheila Razorback as a witness, who puts Australian terms into her speech.

But all Australians are called Bruce!

I like the idea of a mall, though I think a local shopping arcade might work better for the mystery than an actual mall, being a bit more open / less observed. It would also give a more diverse cast, with local pop and mom shops and chain stores next to each other.

...I want this to have Showa shopping street vibe.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:14 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Or a marketplace. "Turnabout Market" has a nice ring to it. We can then have both figurative and literal red herrings.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:49 pm

MBr

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GK2 ends on April 6, while Phoenix's disbarment happens on April 19. It's still possible to make another GK game with Phoenix as a lawyer in it. Personally I'd like to see Edgeworth become Phoenix's assistant (like he did with Franziska and Tateyuki) as they solve the case together.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:05 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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MBr wrote:

GK2 ends on April 6, while Phoenix's disbarment happens on April 19. It's still possible to make another GK game with Phoenix as a lawyer in it. Personally I'd like to see Edgeworth become Phoenix's assistant (like he did with Franziska and Tateyuki) as they solve the case together.

Edgeworth would never lower himself to the likes of Phoenix.

By which I mean, it'd have to be a pretty exceptional situation for someone in charge of an investigation to grant Phoenix permission to investigate, yet not let Edgeworth in. You'd think it would be the other way around, and only if Nick would be so desperate to investigate, a la GS2-4.

On the other hand, the thought of it all is pretty hilarious. What, is the new prosecutor in charge of this case a fan of Phoenix's?

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:35 am

MBr

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There has been an instance in each GK game in which Edgeworth was prevented from investigation but he got around it by becoming a subordinate of another investigator (GK1-5 and GK2-2).

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:55 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Are you implying there may be some sort of trend appearing here?

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:53 am

Ash

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

MBr wrote:

GK2 ends on April 6, while Phoenix's disbarment happens on April 19. It's still possible to make another GK game with Phoenix as a lawyer in it. Personally I'd like to see Edgeworth become Phoenix's assistant (like he did with Franziska and Tateyuki) as they solve the case together.

Edgeworth would never lower himself to the likes of Phoenix.

By which I mean, it'd have to be a pretty exceptional situation for someone in charge of an investigation to grant Phoenix permission to investigate, yet not let Edgeworth in. You'd think it would be the other way around, and only if Nick would be so desperate to investigate, a la GS2-4.

I just got a chance to listen to Turnabout Combination (which was awful), but there Nick and Edgeworth kinda work as a team in a story set after GS3. And with work as a team I mean that Edgeworth uses Nick as his assistant/scapegoat throughout the story and that he only wanted Nick's help because he is uncomfortable with problems that involve love. Ahem.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:01 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Holy shite, what? Where did you get to listen to it and can you share it? Because you say it was awful, I am now curious to see how corny it was. Really, really curious.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:07 am

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dimentiorules wrote:

I have an idea for a case: A murder at a mall. You could have different shops in the mall that can be investigated, with the shopkeepers as witnesses. You could have a hunting goods store with an Australian theme, and have an Australian woman named Sheila Razorback as a witness, who puts Australian terms into her speech. There would be a toy store with a toy gun that gets loaded with real ammo and is revealed to be the murder weapon. The case could be called "Turnabout Shopper".

As much as I'd love an Australian chaaracter in an AA game, the stereotyping would kill me! (I just imagine the overuse of "Bonza!" and "G'day Mate" and "Shrimp on the Barbie" will be thrown in there inevitably)
Even T&T made Armstrong Italian in the French release. We'd get the American one! No localisation for us!
(I laugh every time I hear the name "Sheila". It's not a common name, but it's just Aussie slang for "woman" :gant:

)

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:44 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Silly Mijumaru. That's the point of localization; to make stereotypical foreign characters even more so. I'm personally still waiting on the inevitable super otaku/weaboo character. ~~No, Sal doesn't count.~~ :3

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1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:47 am

SuperAj3

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Silly Mijumaru. That's the point of localization; to make stereotypical foreign characters even more so. I'm personally still waiting on the inevitable super otaku/weaboo character. ~~No, Sal doesn't count.~~ :3

I wait for the day we get the Aussie stereotype XD
The closest we've gotten was Marine from Sonic Rush Adventure.

Also Sal was a full on internet geek. That whole case showed off all the nerd types (Sal, Penny and Cody)

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:45 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Yeah, but then the studio went on to film monster movies. What happened to pandering to the trading card game fanatics? It's pretty much tradition by this point for a GK game to have at least one appearance of the Steel Samurai in some form or another.

I'm far from the first person to say this, but we ought to have a Steel Samurai TCG for real.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

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Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
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Re: GK3 Ideas

Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:57 pm

SuperAj3

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Yeah, but then the studio went on to film monster movies. What happened to pandering to the trading card game fanatics? It's pretty much tradition by this point for a GK game to have at least one appearance of the Steel Samurai in some form or another.

I'm far from the first person to say this, but we ought to have a Steel Samurai TCG for real.

I'd love it if they make Steel Samurai trading cards! Problem is in GS5, the show's not mentioned at all (At least I don't remember a reference) so maybe the studio's dead?

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Re: GK3 Ideas

Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:09 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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It's only because Blackquill is like the younger Edgeworth. He's secretly a fan of the Steel Samurai series but won't admit it out loud.
/headcanon'd

I actually would love it if every one of these spinoff games had some reference to the Steel Samurai. It would become a tradition of these games. To be honest, though, I wouldn't be surprised if the series was declared finished after whatever the heck "Electric Bugaloo" was about.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:28 pm

MBr

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SuperAj3 wrote:

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Yeah, but then the studio went on to film monster movies. What happened to pandering to the trading card game fanatics? It's pretty much tradition by this point for a GK game to have at least one appearance of the Steel Samurai in some form or another.

I'm far from the first person to say this, but we ought to have a Steel Samurai TCG for real.

I'd love it if they make Steel Samurai trading cards! Problem is in GS5, the show's not mentioned at all (At least I don't remember a reference) so maybe the studio's dead?

Dr. Crab references the Steel Samurai in the special episode and Phoenix's phone still has the ringtone.

Phoenix: "You want us to help you?"
Crab: "No, the Steel Samurai!"

I can't remember SS references in T&T, though.

11037

Re: GK3 Ideas

Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:44 pm

Polly

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What if Investigations 3 actually included trials from the Prosecutions perspective. Edgeworth could face Phoenix, or perhaps Ray Shields or Kristoph Gavin could appear, depending on when the game is set chronologically.

The twist could be that the Phoenix Wright you've been encountering the entire game is actually Furio Tigre.