What would you think of an Ace Attorney/The Legend of Zelda crossover?

(Like the Ghirahim one, which is only an example. The main character would be Link.)

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It sounds cool! Just remember this thread is for sharing fanmade sprites. The Wright and Co. Law Offices thread is for topics like this.
EDIT: Topic was moved.

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Last edited by SuperAj3 on Wed May 06, 2015 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wouldn't it make sense to put this into the LoZ thread to begin with?
Also, no. I don't want AA on anything LoZ related... unless Skyward Zelda is my client and I'll gleefully fuck the trial up so she gets the death penalty.

C-A

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Fans complain when Zelda tries to have too much story.
the more words in a Zelda game the more the fans shit themselves.

Do you know what kind of Zelda fan would want to play that game?

The promising demographic of ABSOLUTELY NO ONE!


I'd still try it though.

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That's not true. I'm in a Zelda forum and polls show that fans would like a good story.

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Well, that's silly to expect. Zelda games were never about the story to begin with. The story is simple and always the same: Bad guy (who generally turns out to be Ganondorf ALL ALONG!) is out and about, doing evil things and you are Link, dressed in green, fighting him to bring peace back.
End of story. That's how it's been for over 25 years now, the story hasn't evolved. They tried to add a thing here and there, like legends or romance, but those ultimately don't matter cause the games were never about those parts of a story. The story is background, it's...

It's basically an Excuse Plot like this one.
It's just there to give you a small reason to fight the bad guy. He's evil, you gotta stop him. And yes, it has to be you. That's the whole reason you're doing things. In Skyward, did I actually begin the journey cause I, the player, honestly cared about saving Zelda? Nope! Did I know any reason why I should go out and journey Hyrule in Ocarina, aside from being told to do so? Nope! I just did it cause I was told to.

They shouldn't expect a big, deep story in Zelda games.
That's like expecting Ace Attorney to take law seriously, not have annoying characters and allow the player to skip A, B, C and those letters repeated multiple times cause your brain already figured everything out from point A to point D, cause it was easy to figure out.

C-A

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Court lasts three days. The moon will fall in three days. The end.

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Who cares about the moon falling in three days? You have to save a farm's milk delivery!

C-A

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What about Wind Waker, Majora's Mask, Links awakening, Link to the past, Link between Worlds and Twilight princess?
All of those games had story in them, some debatably more than SS.
and I think others would agree that having a story of that level improves the experience over just having the original opening text scroll
and "It's dangerous to go alone" of the original Zelda. (and this is coming from someone who has played a majority of the zelda games including the original)

I think having a story is fine and I'm really interested in seeing whether or not the Zelda for Wii U has story since the world is going to be so big.

What about Wind Waker's story? You go out on a journey to save your sister, then are told to defeat Ganondorf. End of story. What, that whole thing with "YOUR GODS HAVE BETRAYED YOU" and treating Hyrule being flooded like a big surprise? Yeah, kinda hard to take that part seriously, considering the opening scroll told me so.
Seriously, there is no big story in Waker.

Majora's Mask story is "save these idiots from themselves... also, the Moon falling". They basically removed Ganny and replaced him with the moon. Link's Awakening had a story? You're on an island, you fight monsters... because. And then you wake the Wind Fish (who is apparently YOU since YOU wake up...) that's not much story. Link to the Past didn't have much story, either. Uncle tells you to save Zelda, priest sends you to get 3 things to go up against Agahnim (Ganondorf) and done.

Ditto Link Between Worlds. It's basically LttP's story again, only replace Dark World with Lorule. TP had no story, either. It tried to bring more legends into it, but it wasn't much story, either. You still bascially went on a journey to save the kids/Ilia/Zelda/Hyrule.

C-A

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Maybe there was a misunderstanding here. I don't mean story like Ace Attorney that flows off of a consecutive narrative.
I mean a story where that creates lore. A world that you don't know about yet, places you haven't seen and characters you've yet to meet.
Wind Waker gave all of these.
Many different Islands, new races like the Korok and Rito, interesting Characters such as Medli, King of red Lions and Tetra.
Which all add to the world building. The characters you meet are the story. A story doesn't always need to be a literal flowing narrative.
But it can show you the people that make the world you're adventuring in. Which would you rather have? An nameless old lady that somehow knows to climb steps continually? or a fleshed out character like Midna who helps you?


Again, the story isn't always a narrative that is spoken to you all the time. It doesn't need to be a voice telling you a story. It can be the characters themselves.
In Majora's Mask the Town, Great Bay, Ikana, Snowhead, and Woodfall. They are the story. I'm gonna ignore the hints in the stories and try to just state the knowns, the facts of the story. There was the monkey who almost got killed for trying to help the Deku Princess. Darmani, who passed trying to save his people and his last wish was for you to help them. Mikau who died trying to save his loved ones children. and Ikana, a great kingdom that had fallen to ruin after a war.

I'm not saying these games had a story like Ace Attorney. But there is a story in Zelda and one that the people who play it can build off of as well.

Without spoilers. In Link between worlds we learnt that the dark world wasn't just an "evil realm"
it had people with lives and families just like Hyrule. and it introduced Hilda, who I personally found an interesting concept. More world building.
and in Twilight Princess it introduced the Twilight Realm with the Twili race. and it introduced my favorite assistant character Midna, who is one of the most fleshed out characters in Zelda.

So in short and conclusion. World-Building and interesting characters along a set of circumstances, is story to me. and I think others prefer this kind of story telling or atleast, I believe this is what people mean/want when they say they want "story" in Zelda. I don't mean a continous narrative like many RPGS and Visual Novels.

The Lore in Zelda games is generally inconsistent - we heard, like, at least 3 different versions of Hyrule's (and its Triforce's) creation in Ocarina of Time alone. The Zora used to be evil, but since Ocarina, they are generally allies or neutral ones.



Half of the islands were pointless, several of them were copy-pasted from each other. The koroks are basically Kokiri, but with a wood theme and the rito are actually Zoras that evolved into birds (I will not bring up the discussion again why the FISH people had to turn into BIRDS when the world flooded) and the King of Red Lions is not interesting, neither is Medli or Tetra.
They might have a sliver more personality than most Zelda characters, but that doesn't mean they are interesting. Or even complex.
It's just a slightly better thing compared to what you generally get.

I think what you are mixing up is Story and Lore/World Building.
The story IS a narrative that drives your character and what they are doing. The world building is more there to flesh out the WORLD which doesn't necessarily have a huge tie in with the story. Look at... well, I personally dislike it, but look at Lord of the Rings. Take away the story and adventure that happens, take all the stories out. What do you have? A built up world of the shire and middle earth. That can stand on its own. Adding the story of what happens is separate from that.



I know the spoilers of LBW and, honestly, one of the revelations in the end is so freaking stupid...!



Given that Zelda isn't an RPG to begin with, no need to worry about that.

C-A

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I would like the defendant to give his testimony...

"HAT HUH YAH HUT HUT YAH RAAAAAH HUT GYA HUT EGH YAH HUT HUT YAH!"

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After court, let's celebrate with a ravishing game of energy tennis. Ganon serves first.

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History isn't something consistent. Ask someone something that happened x amount of years ago and you won't get the same story with the next person you ask.

Koroks are basically Kokiri? What does it matter if they're basically Kokiri? I know that they're basically the "future" Kokiri. But that doesn't negate their importance or that they are a different race with completely different characters from the ones that lived in kokiri.
Ema Skye, Trucy Wright and Kay Faradays are basically Maya formula copies. But that does NOT negate their story lines. nor their importance to the plot.

I also know Rito=Zoras. It, like the Koroks, still does not negate nor make their prescence in this game and the stories told from the characters less significant.
Also, I'll make this brief since it's not backed by any official Nintendo workers but.
The Zoras were shown to only live in a controlled, lake environment, with no known predators.
They couldn't even survive in the frozen tempatures Zant created in TP. And lost their queen in the process of Zant's destruction.
With the ocean devouring Hyrule and all the monsters and ships equiped with weapons and no lakes, I don't think the Zoras would survive in that environment with so many predators. So they adapted to the land when the dragon Valoo aided them in their survival.

And as for Tetra, Medli, and the King of Red Lions
Your statements about them being interesting are opinion based. As are my own statements.
I personally found them interesting and I really enjoyed Medli.
But regardless of opinions, their (the characters) intended purpose was to drive the story.

I'm not trying to say that these are "Super complex characters" I'm just saying that there is more story in Zelda than one may notice at first.

I think you're confusing Story, with Plot. The plot of Zelda is almost always the same.
Even without Ganon. Save someone, defeat the greater evil, regain the triforce.
But the same can be said for Ace Attorney if you simplify it.
Murder>False claims>Defend>Struggle>Investigate>Verdict

But the story Example: "an account of imaginary or real people and events told for entertainment."
is what happens inside the plot. World Building is an element of story building.

Link has been stated to be kept as a man without too much "Personality" going on. That's why he doesn't talk either.
The Creator, Mr. Miyamoto said himself that "He want's the Player to project themselves onto Link and play the event's as if it were you."
Now, I gotta say, it's hard to make a story that pushes the protagonist forward and develops him, when you can't make them anything more than a silhouette for the player to fill. So what do the writers do instead? They make the character around him the memorable ones. The one's that have a history and personality. and that's also why they're mostly kept to the sidelines as side-quests aswell. Because YOU as the player need to decide, in Link's place. "Would I help this person?" If the answer is yes, then you get to know what's going on in their lives and get their story. If no, then you continue on without that story and just enjoy the gameplay. Either method is perfectly fine, and made to fit both the people who love to see characters/story/lore, or the ones that just want the dungeons etc.
As brief as they were, people remember their encounters with these characters. Most famous is probably Anju and Kafei's story. But there's also the, as short as it was, Story about Anju's OoT equivalent and her brother. Which, from a personal stand-point. I find very memorable.

I said that to avoid anyone scrolling down who hasn't beaten LBW and didn't expect one here. I also didn't want to clutter my post with a gigantic spoiler tag for a little extra text that wasn't needed for my point.

I included that because I wasn't sure which kind of story-telling you were refering to in your posts, so I went with the strongest examples of storytelling in games. Since Zelda is a Action-adventure game. It wouldn't be fair to expect story like in Final Fantasy or basically any Visual novel from Zelda.
Though there are many Action-adventure with continuous narrative such as "The Last of Us" Modern day "Batman" and even some of the Metroid series.

That sounds like a harder cross-examination than even Polly.

Which seems to have disappeared, especially in games like Skyward, because we now have dialogue options that don't do anything and ultimately Link HAS a personality in that game. It goes against his original purpose*, because now he has his own morals, his own reasons for doing things and I'm just moving him. What about players like me who don't care about saving Zelda? Her asking me to wake her, I demand an option that says "If I remember" or just a simple "No". But I don't get those options cause they either expect me to give a crap about Zelda or they flat out give me the dialogue options that LINK would use. Meaning he is NOT a base for me to project my own personality on, he is his own personality now.

* Originally, Zelda games were gonna be about two separate worlds/timelines (one that we know and one cyber-futuristic one) that you would travel to and from with the help of microchip-ish things (the then-triforce) and Link was not supposed to be the "link" between the player and character, but the link between those worlds.



Uh, just FYI, just because a character is memorable doesn't mean they are GOOD. I hate Anju and Kafei. Both are idiots who'd rather choose to die than maybe go off on the chance, trusting the other to also run off and hope to find each other somewhere, where they can LIVE together. (Then again, I hated pretty much everyone in Majora and would love to see them all die, they're all helpless idiots)



...Anju had a brother?

I've said it before, there's a difference between LORE and STORY. The lore is what builds the world up. The story is what happens and the lore is generally separate from that. Zelda has Lore, yes. But it doesn't have an intricate story, it never had and shouldn't get one. (Otherwise we might end up with that crap called Persona 4 Arena, which not only answered more questions for Persona 3's characters, but also gave us huge walls of text to read - in small writing, in my opinion, making it difficult to read - and only 2 minute long gameplay battles before going back to reading)

C-A

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Link had dialogue options before, albeit usually just yes or no kinda stuff. I can see why you'd dislike the option with Zelda near the end.
It gives you the illusion of choice. But really, would it make sense in any zelda game. Even the first. The most basic of stories. The one with no characters even. Would it make sense for Link to try so hard to save Hyrule, get right in front of Zelda. The person people need. and just say "Nah."?

Logically speaking, even if it gave you complete control and let you choose not to rescue her. Wouldn't that come off as, inhumane? Character-breaking?
Even a person with no character like Link is intended to be from the very beginning. Wouldn't do that in the first game. Not with the context of "Save the princess" I mean, You're right. I agree with you that you didn't have a choice. and when games do that and you catch onto the "Illusion of choice" trope, it sucks. But, wouldn't saying no to her, either A. End the game right there. Along with or by itself, B. Break the "Hero" that you're playing.

They made a hero you can embody and go on an adventure to save the princess.
Even the simplest of characters have to abide by one rule if they stay in, lets call it, "Blank Slate" mode.
You're either, Good, Neutral, or Evil. You build up from that foundation. Nintendo assigned him as the "Courageous Hero". Naturally he'd fall into good.

Even if Phoenix Wright barely spoke in the game, the developers put him in the "Good" group for his "Blank slate" mode, when they came up with him. Even if he was put in neutral, all neutral characters eventually lead to atleast Neutral evil or Neutral good depending on the first traits you see the character doing.

I never claimed they were "good" I said it's ALL opinion based. Whether they are GOOD or not is irrelavant to what I was trying to explain.
Regardless of how good or bad you view a character those characters WERE telling a story.

Also, that quest took them the entire 3 days to reunite them. By the time they're together they are ONE minute from death. If you were told a nuke was dropping right above you in 1 minute, would you attempt to run?

Would you call the people on the Titanic who accepted their fates in the last moments "idiots" for not trying til the very end?

Even if they both tried, there was no guarantee they'd both survive. If say Anju lived, she just lost everything. Not just her fiance. Her home, her family, her business. Everything. Even if they both lived, she'd still lose everything.

Anju's brother is an acting element. He's someone you see and die.
Lore is Mythology, fairytales, legends, Lore is the Tri-Force, Lore is the opening-sequences with the scrolls, the races.
Anju's Brother was not lore. It was an actual event. If he was someone you never saw and just heard of, then I could pass that off for lore. But actual in-game events aren't lore.

I've said before in the last post. I'm not talking about deep intricate stories that the game tells througout the whole game like Final Fantasy, Ace Attorney or the Bioshock series I'm saying there IS and already was before skyward sword, story going on. and when people say in polls they "Want story" in zelda they PROBABLY mean story like this for the most part. That is how this whole conversation got started.

They knew the moon was falling, they had plenty opportunity to run. They just decided to not do so because they "trusted each other". Which is stupid, in my eyes, because as said, I think it'd make more sense to trust they'd opt to live with me rather than die with me when given the option.



She could've built up new things, made a new start.



I repeat: she had a brother?

C-A

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Anju does have a brother, or as she is more commonly known, the Cucco Lady. If you do the Biggoron's side quest, the blue chicken she gives you, she asks you to deliver it to her brother. He's the depressed guy in the Lost Woods. Talking to him, I believe when you're a child in Kakariko, you find that the old carpenter guy is his dad, making him Anju's dad too. It's stuff that's easily missed if you forgo sidequests and don't talk to NPCs, but I like it when they do stuff like that. It adds some world building in the game. Much better than just the generic NPC that says something like "The princess is in trouble, save us Link!"

I can't remember off the top of my head if the potion hag is mentioned as Anju's grandmother, or if that's just an assumption that's drawn from Majora's Mask since she is Anju's grandma in that game.

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I remember the guy, but only vaguely cause I didn't do that sidequest often and it overall had no impact on me. Now, for example, Peatrice from Skyward - she left an impact on me, I saw her a lot and her sidequest involved a lot of interaction with her. (Which incidently made me believe her romance with Link more than any other in the games)
People I see for a second in a sidequest, particularly a long one? No memory of them.

C-A

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Built up from what exactly? The only places we know in Termina are, clocktown and the four areas around it.
Not only are they filled with monsters. But we have no idea the devastation the moon would have caused. We could end up with the kind of destruction depicted in Adventure time for example.

A moon crashed into what is essentially, their planet. Do you have any idea how much damage would be cause to our world if even a tiny planet* like pluto crashed into our planet?
*I know it's no longer an official planet, sorry pluto.
Heck, even a planet getting too close to another planet can cause devastating effects.
But, lets for argument sake say that only clock town was destroy. What then? Where can she go to live?
We see humans in the swamp, but I doubt they live there full time, other than maybe the potion ladies. and we see Romani Ranch, but the way that Cremia talks on the final day, and the way she allows Romani to finally drink the Zelda equivalent to Alcohol all atests to Cremia knowing that her and her sister, are going to die. Majora's mask in itself is all about death and the game tries to make you feel like it's a pointless effort a lot of the time. "Why save Lulu's eggs if she's just going to die along with everyone else in termina?" It really pushes that the entirity of Termina is going to perish and all your efforts will be for naught. If the time ticks down on the third day, no matter where you are. The cutscene with Link "dying" still plays. Even if the rest with, with say, Cremia, is mostly just subtext, that scene still shows, that no matter where Link is in Termina, he dies. and since we never see or hear about the world outside Termina, we have no idea about it's safety or if it even really exists. Therefore, I can't call Anju or Kafei stupid for not running. and if you can think of a place outside of Termina that they COULD have run to to survive. I'd legitimately like to know.

Yeah, and his favorite roster/cucco, Cojiro. I really love the side-quests too. It's almost always some of my favorite parts of the game, and usually some of the most memorable too. Ran the side-quest in OoT everytime I played it.

Thanks for making me remember that crazy lady. xD
I'd forgotten about her actually. I had remembered pumpkin lady Kina and her dad Pumm more.

Ugh, Kina's sidequest with the harp performance. I didn't have much trouble with most controls in the game, but the timing for the harp is just so wonky and bad. By the end of that sidequest, I was just so tired of her dumb song. Opening the portals were iffy too. Sometimes it'd take me 20 seconds, sometimes 2-3 minutes. And it's not the timing that's the worst part, it's the motion controls. And no, calibrating the controller does not change how effective that'll be.

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For Kina's harp, focus on the not-drunk guy and do wipe sweeping motions. As for the portals... you mean the boss keys? Yeah they were... okay. I could've done without them, but they didn't bother me too much.

C-A

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I know that trick about following the guy. The bad motion controls still didn't help. As for portals, I mean silent realm. And thanks for reminding me about the boss keys too. =/

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Not really. I just don't get it when people say the motion controls in Skyward were "iffy" or flat out didn't work. I never had any difficulty with them and it was my first game requiring motion controls. Yeah, it took me a bit to get the hang of sky diving and stabbing, but once I got past that, I had no issues with anything.

C-A

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It's strange for me. I had no problem with the sword combat, controlling the beetle, or that stuff. It was mostly just stuff dealing with the harp, which is why I have such distaste for that sidequest. Honestly though, I'm not a big fan of motion controls. There are games where it does work, like Mario Galaxy, and it works for the most part it Skyward Sword, but to me, there are hits and misses, and to me as far as this game did go, when it did miss, it missed big. Overall I don't hate this game, I quite enjoyed it, but I'd be lying if I said going into another playthrough that there are going to be things in the game that I will dread doing.

Just because I'm not nitpicking too, still didn't like the direction the game took with having two fire temples. Definitely the weakest dungeons in the game for me, next to the last one where it's a giant puzzle.

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Ooooh, I loved the majority of dungeons in Skyward! Yeah two fire temples, meh... I mostly dislike the second cause I'm claustrophobic and going underground is not something I enjoy, but I do love the boss fight there. And the Skyview temple was beautiful and the Ancient Cistern! Oh, I love that place! It's gorgeous and the music is wonderful and the designs and the swimming mechanics. Oh I love it every time I have to head into that area! (And since I know a little trick to bypass majority of the basement, I can look at the pretty parts the most)

Yeah the last one... sucks... I hate those puzzles. And getting a mini-boss fight rehash was not nice. But eh, I'd rather take that than the Temple in the Sky from TP or even the Twilight Palace. Or god forbid the Fire Temple in Ocarina.

C-A

PS: Whoooow, we really got off topic...

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Hah, it's kinda funny. I had the opposite problem. I had to recalibrate ever few minutes. But maybe I was just too close to the tv. Atleast it got a laugh out of me by how bad it was at times. I could have my sword all the way on the left but my wii remote would be all the way on the right, and to get it to go right I'd practically have to do a 180 from the tv to get it in on the right in-game.

Temple in the Sky... Never again... I love TP, it's my favorite. But the music coupled with the annoying puzzles just drove me insane.
I don't know why they thought weird garbles with repetitive instrumentals behind it would be good.

But yeah, this thread has kinda gone off track at this point.

Wow, I actually thought this was dead.

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