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General Luigi wrote:
TheDoctor wrote:
That last one was really egregious in P4 when comforting Rise. I get it's probably a Japanese thing, but still...

Looking back, I wonder if there was an "oh, get over it" option then. I can't remember.

The game's been out long enough that I don't think the spoiler tag is necessary.

I attribute the problem with Rise's "lovers or friends" dialogue tree to poor wording. Rise pleads with the player character to "stay by [her] side," and that is exactly what he does if you choose the "Stand there" option, but by merely calling it "stand there," it's easy to interpret it as the player character being an insensitive jerk rather than him being there for her as a friend is expected to be. He might not be hugging her, but his presence still reassures her that no, she hasn't lost everything. I think I actually talked about this with Pierre a while back, come to think of it.


Yep "stand there" seems a decidedly cold option. Also I suppose it depends on your own personal stance on hugs. I don't necessarily consider hugs romantic between friends, especially when one is bawling their eyes out in need of comfort.

It reminds me of something in Dragon Age 2, one of the characters is illiterate from being a slave and so one of the "Romantic options" (portrayed by a love heart) is teaching them to read. I utterly scoffed at this as I did not want to pursue a relationship with the guy but felt it was the decent thing to do anyway.


Then again my misunderstanding of relationship options accidentally led to me dating Dorian in DA3, oops.
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I think that's one of the problems with dialogue trees in general. A certain response or course of action in the game can only translate one way and you can't clarify your actions to be more specific. You can't hug Rise without it being romantic. Granted, at least I have the option to just be friends with her, which is more than can be said for the potential romantic Social Links in Persona 3 (the thought of Chihiro crying her eyes out over her boyfriend cheating on her, even if we never actually see that happen, is reason enough for me to avoid building up any of the other romantic Social Links), but social interactions are often more complex than dialogue trees allow for--to say nothing of when certain options are just not available. Just off the top of my head, I'd love to see:
  • Being allowed to avert "Mystery Food X" by helping Yukiko and Chie get the ingredients right and prepare the curry properly.
  • Being allowed to object to Yosuke's attempts to guilt the girls into changing into swimsuits.
  • Being allowed to shove Yosuke into the river yourself for making those lewd comments.
  • Being allowed to actually stay behind in the "haunted" room rather than follow Yosuke, Teddie, and Kanji into Hanako and Kashiwagi's room. "Have you guys already forgotten what happened at the hot spring? I'm staying with the 'ghost.' It's worlds safer than what the girls will have in store for you if they catch you."

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Or, god forbid, you get an option to yell at the girls for how they behaved in the hot springs, anyway...
But I think I can chalk some of this stuff up as to having to do with 'Japanese culture and standards'. Like, one reason I never went for the romance route for Naoto (outside of preferring Rise) was because I just keep having to treat her like a fragile flower that can't lift a spoon for herself. No, no. Doesn't matter that Naoto has been doing well on her own and telling people off. You, Naoto, go stand there in the back and let the big, burly MAN take care of things!

C-A

PS: I still haven't continued my P5 playthrough, but I will date Futaba... then Makoto on another playthrough. (I like her hair)
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I would've been content with a simple "Goddammit, Yosuke" option. Preferably one that can be used on multiple occasions.
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I stand by Persona 3 being alright because it let's you tell Yukari what a worthless piece of smeg she is.
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Pierre wrote:
I stand by Persona 3 being alright because it let's you tell Yukari what a worthless piece of smeg she is.


Urgh, you just reminded me how obnoxious she is. Ohhhhh, excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, PRINCESS, for - you know - HELPING you in a situation where you were obviously in over your head! :ron: I think she was the only social link I ever had reverse on me. And I honestly did not give a crap that it happened.

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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
I stand by Persona 3 being alright because it let's you tell Yukari what a worthless piece of smeg she is.


Urgh, you just reminded me how obnoxious she is. Ohhhhh, excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, PRINCESS, for - you know - HELPING you in a situation where you were obviously in over your head! :ron: I think she was the only social link I ever had reverse on me. And I honestly did not give a crap that it happened.

C-A


I'll top that. Never even started a social link with her. I had a moral objection to the fact she'll only HANG OUT (read: not date) with you if you are the most popular kid in school. Didn't need soneone like that.
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General Luigi wrote:
I think that's one of the problems with dialogue trees in general. A certain response or course of action in the game can only translate one way and you can't clarify your actions to be more specific. You can't hug Rise without it being romantic. Granted, at least I have the option to just be friends with her, which is more than can be said for the potential romantic Social Links in Persona 3 (the thought of Chihiro crying her eyes out over her boyfriend cheating on her, even if we never actually see that happen, is reason enough for me to avoid building up any of the other romantic Social Links), but social interactions are often more complex than dialogue trees allow for--to say nothing of when certain options are just not available. Just off the top of my head, I'd love to see:
  • Being allowed to avert "Mystery Food X" by helping Yukiko and Chie get the ingredients right and prepare the curry properly.
  • Being allowed to object to Yosuke's attempts to guilt the girls into changing into swimsuits.
  • Being allowed to shove Yosuke into the river yourself for making those lewd comments.
  • Being allowed to actually stay behind in the "haunted" room rather than follow Yosuke, Teddie, and Kanji into Hanako and Kashiwagi's room. "Have you guys already forgotten what happened at the hot spring? I'm staying with the 'ghost.' It's worlds safer than what the girls will have in store for you if they catch you."

On that note, I'd like the option to break up with girlfriends. Maybe it would reverse the social link a couple of steps and you could then go the "just friends" route when rebuilding it. I mean, as much as I love the game, I don't want to have to play it a dozen times just to see all the different romance routes (hence why I typically go the harem route on my first playthrough, even if that's not something I'd do irl), so giving me the option to break off a romance would be far more preferable to the dreaded Valentines Day event where the majority of the girls figure out you've been cheating on them.

And yes, Yosuke's comments should have allowed the option to push him in the river. I mean, if you agree with him or disagree with him using the options in the game, you sound just as bad as him. Plus, if you push him in the river even if you're some weirdo who internally agrees with him, you still end up looking more desirable.
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TheDoctor wrote:
General Luigi wrote:
I think that's one of the problems with dialogue trees in general. A certain response or course of action in the game can only translate one way and you can't clarify your actions to be more specific. You can't hug Rise without it being romantic. Granted, at least I have the option to just be friends with her, which is more than can be said for the potential romantic Social Links in Persona 3 (the thought of Chihiro crying her eyes out over her boyfriend cheating on her, even if we never actually see that happen, is reason enough for me to avoid building up any of the other romantic Social Links), but social interactions are often more complex than dialogue trees allow for--to say nothing of when certain options are just not available. Just off the top of my head, I'd love to see:
  • Being allowed to avert "Mystery Food X" by helping Yukiko and Chie get the ingredients right and prepare the curry properly.
  • Being allowed to object to Yosuke's attempts to guilt the girls into changing into swimsuits.
  • Being allowed to shove Yosuke into the river yourself for making those lewd comments.
  • Being allowed to actually stay behind in the "haunted" room rather than follow Yosuke, Teddie, and Kanji into Hanako and Kashiwagi's room. "Have you guys already forgotten what happened at the hot spring? I'm staying with the 'ghost.' It's worlds safer than what the girls will have in store for you if they catch you."

On that note, I'd like the option to break up with girlfriends. Maybe it would reverse the social link a couple of steps and you could then go the "just friends" route when rebuilding it. I mean, as much as I love the game, I don't want to have to play it a dozen times just to see all the different romance routes (hence why I typically go the harem route on my first playthrough, even if that's not something I'd do irl), so giving me the option to break off a romance would be far more preferable to the dreaded Valentines Day event where the majority of the girls figure out you've been cheating on them.

And yes, Yosuke's comments should have allowed the option to push him in the river. I mean, if you agree with him or disagree with him using the options in the game, you sound just as bad as him. Plus, if you push him in the river even if you're some weirdo who internally agrees with him, you still end up looking more desirable.


The anime I felt was pretty great, made it clear you had 0 opinions what so ever as you get shoved in the river with a face like :lana:
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I remember that expression. That was great.
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CatMuto wrote:
I still haven't continued my P5 playthrough, but I will date Futaba...

Judging by what I've read about her personality, I expect to find Futaba absolutely adorable--which is why I don't expect to have my character date her; when I consider a female character that cute, she elicits more of an "I want to adopt her" reaction in me than anything else. Still, to each their own. I'm not sure whom I'll have my character date, but I expect to go with either Makoto or Hifumi. I'm trying to keep an open mind, though, just in case I meet a different character whom I really click with (or end up not interested in any of the romance options).
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Yes, Futaba elicits the omochikaeri reaction from me as well. Being voiced by Aoi Yuuki tends to do that.
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TheDoctor wrote:
Yes, Futaba elicits the omochikaeri reaction from me as well. Being voiced by Aoi Yuuki tends to do that.


In Japan the phrase omochikaeri has a distinctly more sexual meaning actually in such a context, as it is more commonly used in the meaning of 'taking a girl with you for some "private fun time"' (for example, when there's a party, and a boy manages to omochikaeri a girl away to a love hotel).
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Really? First time I've heard it in that context. Only place I really heard it was Rena from Higurashi, who, cloud cuckoolander though she may be, certainly wasn't using it to mean that. Good to know then.
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Hifumi? ...who was Hifumi again?

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Hifumi? ...who was Hifumi again?

C-A

The Shogi girl at church. I only did her Confidant for the party switching ability.

Spoiler: June 19

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Up to the beginning of the 5th chapter (4th Palace cleared and the change of heart happened)

I'm hitting brick walls with confidants where I need higher stats to continue, like max proficiency for Yusuke, and I think it was higher charm for Takemi.

I think I'm at 8/25 atm so proding along
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sumguy28 wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Hifumi? ...who was Hifumi again?

C-A

The Shogi girl at church. I only did her Confidant for the party switching ability.



Ah, I thought it might be her, but I kept thinking Etoile. (Makes sense, they use the French names for the tarot cards)

C-A
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Just started Kaneshiro's Palace last night. Despite Makoto being my favorite character and party member now, I'm slowly losing my patience because it seems like the enemies in this dungeon are WAY harder to hit than the previous ones. Part of it may just be rotten luck or going in underleveled at 19-20, but good God it seems like the enemies dodge almost every other attack I throw, especially those dancing horse things. They buff their evasion and all my affinities miss, but slap them with a few Joe Normal melee attacks and they crumble or beg for their lives like an Oreo suffering the glass-of-milk torture.
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Dancing horses? I can't think of any right now... My main memory for Kaneshiro's place was getting stuck in the huge area, because I was stupid and didn't notice a keypad I was supposed to interact with. I did like the puzzle for that area, though. Even if the large area became a little monotone to get through. (Also, the boss battle was kinda fun)

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Dancing horses? I can't think of any right now...


I think the Persona's name is "Orobas" but I don't expect anyone to have memorized every single one (even I haven't). They're the ones who spam Sukukaja and make your life miserable by causing all of your attacks to miss.

And thanks for the tip on that one huge area with all those security cameras. Didn't realize it was a puzzle amd thought I had to find some missing "keycards" in the real world.
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Something I realized about the fourth palace...
Spoiler:
Futaba's palace is Egyptian themed. Futaba is a hacker. Medjed is an Egyptian themed name...

Well played, game. Well played.

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Mr. Bear Jew wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Dancing horses? I can't think of any right now...


I think the Persona's name is "Orobas" but I don't expect anyone to have memorized every single one (even I haven't). They're the ones who spam Sukukaja and make your life miserable by causing all of your attacks to miss.

And thanks for the tip on that one huge area with all those security cameras. Didn't realize it was a puzzle amd thought I had to find some missing "keycards" in the real world.


Oh! Orobas! Yeah, I remember which one you mean now! I never saw them as dancing, though... but in this game, I guess you could see that tail whipping as dancing.

Medjed? Who or what is Medjed?

Spoiler: Medjed
Is that the name the translation used for Futaba, when she hacks herself into the Phantom Thieves' chat?


C-A
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TheDoctor wrote:
Something I realized about the fourth palace...
Spoiler:
Futaba's palace is Egyptian themed. Futaba is a hacker. Medjed is an Egyptian themed name...

Well played, game. Well played.

Spoiler:
So you're saying​ Futaba has mummy issues.
I'll leave.

CatMuto wrote:
Medjed? Who or what is Medjed?

Spoiler: Medjed
Is that the name the translation used for Futaba, when she hacks herself into the Phantom Thieves' chat?


C-A

Spoiler:
Medjed is the name of the international hacktivist organization that targets the Phantom Thieves, while Futaba uses the name "Alibaba" when hacking into the group chat.

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Spoiler:
Then after Futaba's palace is complete, she reveals that she was the first Medjed, so her palace being a pyramid is a nice bit of subtle foreshadowing.

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So it's 8/1 in my game and my Confidant Rank with Sojiro has been stuck at Rank 3 since May. Do I have any chance of maxing it out before the end of the game, or should I abandon ship? I don't know what the parameters to rank up are but everytime I spend time with him I get the same "I don't think my bond with Sojiro with grow just yet..." message. And I've done this roughly 3 times.

Why is this confidant so hard to rank up agsgsjd
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Sojiro just takes FOREVER to hit the next rank. I'm on the verge of hitting rank 4, but it took what felt like at least five non-advancing events with him (making coffee, just hanging out, all while holding a Persona of his arcana) before I reached that. I guess he's just really hard to please, at least between ranks 3 and 4. It makes some sense considering his attitude toward you.
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I know that Futaba needs to be unlocked for some of his ranks, but by August, it really should be beyond when you can increase his rank.

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
I know that Futaba needs to be unlocked for some of his ranks, but by August, it really should be beyond when you can increase his rank.

C-A


...And then I find out that I need max Kindness to finish the his ranks. :payne:

NG+ here I come!
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Okay I really am enjoying the game for the most part but you know what's awesome about a game that tells you to manage your time wisely?

When the game constantly railroads you into only doing what the story demands you do at that time

Case in point:
Spoiler: May
So I got a TV and found out, hey, you can rent DVDs and watch them at night to raise your stats, sounds cool. You can only rent them for so long before you get hit with a late fee, okay, that seems reasonable. Problem is, you never know when you're going to be stuck in a situation when you CAN'T return the movies. I rented one, watched part of it, then realized oops, tests are coming up, so I take it back and rent it out again, figuring I'll have time to watch it after tests are over. NOPE, guess what, you're spending like a solid week of doing nothing but investigating Madarame. So I end up with like a three day late fee because the game gives you absolutely NO opportunity to bring the damn DVD back, and as an extra slap in the face, Morgana patronizes you with a "Make sure you get the movie back on time next time, okay?" Hey, smartass, YOU'RE the one who kept telling me "No, you can't go out, you need to sleep" every time I tried to bring it back!

The whole taking an entire day to do one thing deal is stupid and should have been changed by now anyway. I can understand it for some situations, but does it seriously take you ALL DAY to run down to the airsoft shop and sell Kamoshida's medal?

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Agreed, there are plenty of things in P5 that you end up doing that, by all rights, shouldn't take you more than a few minutes.

Also, at some point in the game, you'll be able to hire someone to do mundane tasks like making coffee or curry, washing laundry, or making tools for the Phantom Thieves. Problem is, if you use this to do anything other than laundry, it means you won't get to hang out with Sojiro for the night. Also, I can understand being too tired to do anything at night after a long day in Meta Space, but sometimes, it's just really annoying that I'm forced to go to bed for no reason, especially when there's stuff I could do that technically doesn't take any time (like Velvet Room stuff, for instance).
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I know the feeling. A sizable part of September that I just got through is one cutscene after another with an occasional "you're free to move, but you can't leave this spot" moment, but no real free time. Admittedly, there are usually warnings about exams coming (or in the case of September, the school trip and some plot-related stuff), but there are times when I have no way of knowing that I'll be unable to act on a certain day.
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General Luigi wrote:
I know the feeling. A sizable part of September that I just got through is one cutscene after another with an occasional "you're free to move, but you can't leave this spot" moment, but no real free time. Admittedly, there are usually warnings about exams coming (or in the case of September, the school trip and some plot-related stuff), but there are times when I have no way of knowing that I'll be unable to act on a certain day.


Jesus Christ, that segment was monumentally long and unnecessary. Especially the school vacation. You have all the free time in the world to chill with your homies, maybe even bond with them or raise your stats, but nooooo, let's just strip all control from the player and shuttle them through and hour and a half of cut scene bullshit that doesn't advance the story in any meaningful way.

Still, spending some quality time with Makoto on the beach was nice.
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Mr. Bear Jew wrote:
Still, spending some quality time with Makoto on the beach was nice.

Highlight of my character's trip right there. Admittedly, she and Tetsuya (my character) were still just friends at the time (and still are until he can maximize his Charm), but it was still pleasant. I really like Makoto; while I'm currently leaning toward Tetsuya dating her, I'd also be perfectly content to just have her as a good friend.
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My beach time with Makoto was the only part of the trip I actually enjoyed. I'm getting pretty tired of Operation Babe Hunt, and version 3.0 is my least favorite of the bunch. The rest of the trip only served to show how famous the Phantom Thieves were getting, which was something they didn't even need to waste five minutes of exposition on, if they just had Mishima tell us we'd been getting a bunch of hits from other countries on the Phan-Site.
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TheDoctor wrote:
I'm getting pretty tired of Operation Babe Hunt, and version 3.0 is my least favorite of the bunch.

My situation's the opposite, to an extent: 3.0 is my favorite simply because I don't have to do anything in it other than progress a bit of dialogue. Going around hitting on strangers strikes me as just plain creepy, so the less I have to personally do, the better. I hope the player character in Persona 6 can outright refuse to participate in 4.0. Another thing I'd love to see would be the "Babe Hunters" bothering someone like Chie or Makoto and getting the crap beaten out of them. Those guys who were pestering Ann and Makoto have no idea just how lucky they were that Tetsuya, Ryuji, and Yusuke showed up when they did; knowing Makoto, they might have otherwise walked away without all of their teeth.

As a side-note, it appears Makoto is rather popular among the users in this thread--or at least a popular choice for the Hawaii outing.
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Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey...

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Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:05 pm

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Well, the way things are shaping up, I think Makoto may be winner of the "is best girl" designation in this installment of the franchise. My only complaint so far is that I have to max out my charm in order to finish her Confidant Path, thanks to her idiot friend.
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Idol of Polar Bears

Gender: Male

Location: Norcal

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:37 pm

Posts: 4353

Sexy biker chick is pretty GOAT.
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Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9918

General Luigi wrote:
As a side-note, it appears Makoto is rather popular among the users in this thread--or at least a popular choice for the Hawaii outing.


Honestly, I only picked Makoto for the outing because Futaba wasn't an option...

C-A
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I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1706

I attempted to fight the Reaper, and as expected I got my ass handed to me. Since its element break skills now affect the entire party, it won't just stand there casting​ Ice Break over and over.
So I geared up, grinded for a bit, and gave it another try.
Spoiler:
And it caught the flu and died.
...Okay.
And yes, Makoto is best girl.

Edit: Can I just say that I'm glad they chose to use demon negotiations over shuffle time for recruiting new Personas? Shuffle time just felt like a random drop on top of a random drop. And at least here, negotiations have some pattern to them instead of just being whatever the demon feels like saying (looking at you, Strange Journey).
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"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
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