Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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I tried to think of the most evil, the most manipulative, and the most satisfying they are when you finally break them down!
Pretty much putting all of the remaining posts in spoilers, recapping each major villian that I feel is worthy of the title and deserves a nomination.
Spoiler:
So, out of those 6, who do you think is the most evil in the Ace Attorney series so far?
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Spoiler: My List out of the 6
Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Why should a question of the most evil be limited to the final villains*? They may be the most challenging to take down or the most epic to defeat, but that doesn't automatically qualify them as the only runners for most evil. I personally feel that Shelly de Killer deserves consideration (a man who kills only for pay without the slightest qualm? Really cool, but also definitely evil.) despite the fact that he's never even apprehended. And other non-final case villains have plenty of evil about them as well. For example, Redd White and Daryan Crescend. So my point is, let's not confine people to just those 6 and let people vote for any villain they want to in the series.
*Actually, I just realized that you included Morgan as well, but I still hold to the rest of my point.
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Are you sure with your opinions about who is the most evil villain? Of course, the evidence doesn't lie but the human heart can do it so easily. Anyway, what I'm pushing at here is that what makes these people evil? True that they all murder/lied/covered up/kidnapped/held hostage etc... but the thing is fundamentally the same, are they that evil?
Every single human heart is capable of being dark. Some are capable of the darkest desires without qualm but there are those who blissfully deny everything even though their hearts are just as dark as those we condemn. I could easily include Phoenix and others to that list as well. The shades of grey are always there but the grey becomes white only because we are told that...
Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Regy Rusty wrote:
Why should a question of the most evil be limited to the final villains*? They may be the most challenging to take down or the most epic to defeat, but that doesn't automatically qualify them as the only runners for most evil. I personally feel that Shelly de Killer deserves consideration (a man who kills only for pay without the slightest qualm? Really cool, but also definitely evil.) despite the fact that he's never even apprehended. And other non-final case villains have plenty of evil about them as well. For example, Redd White and Daryan Crescend. So my point is, let's not confine people to just those 6 and let people vote for any villain they want to in the series.
*Actually, I just realized that you included Morgan as well, but I still hold to the rest of my point.
*Actually, I just realized that you included Morgan as well, but I still hold to the rest of my point.
Shelly de Killer at least has some integrity in his business though. He doesn't do anything underhanded. He's evil, but nowhere near the same playing field as others (i.e. the ones Kusanagi mentioned).
But I'd have to say between Kusanagi's options...
Spoiler:
Last edited by miche1987 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Spoiler: My Vote
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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But Manfred betrayed everything that Prosecutor's stand for.
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Von Karma actually caused all of Morgan and Dahlia's murders in a roundabout way - if he didn't kill Gregory in the way he did, then Misty wouldn't have been called in, Greg's spirit wouldn't have lied/gotten it wrong, she wouldn't have ruined the Fey name...you do the math from there.
The only reason he doesn't win the award is because that whole plan wasn't entirely premeditated. He didn't PLAN to kill Greg, it just sort of worked out and he went from there. Gant also technically didn't premeditate killing Neil, as far as we know, or plan to kill Bruce after.
They're both pretty darned evil, though.
Spoiler: 4-4
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MercuryKitten wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
It was The Twilight Zone, what with his slow break with sanity.
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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One of the reasons that I chose those is that for almost every other villian in the game, there's something behind their motives, where while you certainly don't agree with them, you can relate to and kind of see WHY they did what they did.
All of the other worthwhile villians had some sort of revenge motive or something else that caused them to go through with their plans that gave the impression it wasn't just for their own personal gain.
Examples:
Spoiler:
The only other ones that really leaves are the starting villians and they have no depth whatsoever. Killing someone who walked in while you were burglaring their house? That's not evil to the extent we all love.
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Kusanagi wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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MercuryKitten wrote:
If you want to go out on a limb and go on body count...
It's an interesting idea, except...DL-6 screwed up Misty Fey. Morgan's lack of channeling talent means she would have gotten passed over either way, which means her elaborate plot for revenge still would have brewed up--maybe even worse, since if the Fey name was actually worth anything, there would be even more motivation for Morgan to maneuver her daughter into power. More people might have gotten hurt.
Plus, I'm not comfortable with giving von Karma even partial evil credit for murders committed by people he'd never met or contacted. You play that game, you can pin a lot of evil on people for things that went way beyond what they were even capable of considering or foreseeing.
I'll admit, my reasons for Dahlia are primarily theological/philosophical--there's simply more evidence for her evilness and its unyielding tenacity. Kristoph and von Karma are still near the top of my list, though. For purposes of answering this question, I would have liked to see von Karma one last time after 1-4, ideally with his execution date drawing near, and getting inside his head then.
Spoiler: 4-4
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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And Krissi only did his share out of jealousy. Not very epic itself. I'll think about the others later on.
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Super Judge Bro. wrote:
And Krissi only did his share out of jealousy. Not very epic itself. I'll think about the others later on.
The epic part was how insane/obsessive he went. He stopped functioning on any known level of sanity
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Gomez&MorticiaForevr wrote:
Kusanagi wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Wether he's eccentric or not, he still doesn't stack up to the others mentioned. He didn't do anything to cover up his tracks himself and just assumed he still had everyone on his payroll.
He may be rich and a killer, but let's face it, he's no Lex Luthor.
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FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
The epic part was how insane/obsessive he went. He stopped functioning on any known level of sanity
Okay I agree with that. But jealously is still not an epic reason to kill, or to frame someone.
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FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
The epic part was how insane/obsessive he went. He stopped functioning on any known level of sanity
This, I accept totally.
FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
It was The Twilight Zone, what with his slow break with sanity.
(Emphasis added)
This, not so much. If I grok the Mason System properly (and who really does?), he brought poisoned nail polish to his first meeting with Vera. He didn't even have a reason to snap before he already was plotting a murder. His sanity came pre-broken.
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Super Judge Bro. wrote:
Okay I agree with that. But jealously is still not an epic reason to kill, or to frame someone.
And yet, the best real life murders started with jealousy. Funny thing.
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Super Judge Bro. wrote:
FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
The epic part was how insane/obsessive he went. He stopped functioning on any known level of sanity
Okay I agree with that. But jealously is still not an epic reason to kill, or to frame someone.
Hence why it's evil, because there IS no rational explanation besides that jealousy.
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KFDirector wrote:
This, not so much. If I grok the Mason System properly (and who really does?), he brought poisoned nail polish to his first meeting with Vera. He didn't even have a reason to snap before he already was plotting a murder. His sanity came pre-broken.
Not so much pre-broken.
I think Krissi's personality didn't allow for the fact that someone as ditzy as
was chosen over him. That's where he began to flirt with the dark corners of his mind where men dare not go
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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Now that, my friends, is not fabulous.
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Super Judge Bro. wrote:
Really. I call it 'his mind snapped over something so petty'.
To you it's petty. But to Kristoph it was more.
Behold the maze of mind.
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FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
Behold the labyrinth of mind.
Fixed. A much more suiting word.
Okay fine, maybe to him it was not petty. So what?
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Krissi is also up there for also being a serial murder, but not quite as cold-blooded and hateful.
What about the least evil of all the murderers? Who would have your vote for the least evil?
I would say Acro in that regard because of the emotional nature of the crime and his remorse and shame for his actions.
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Super Judge Bro. wrote:
FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
Behold the labyrinth of mind.
Fixed. A much more suiting word.
Okay fine, maybe to him it was not petty. So what?
Maze of Mind was a book I had to read in college. Nevermind.
I'm going to go out on a limb.
Kristoph strikes as a guy who worked really, really hard to make it as a Defense Attorney. Where as, In my opinion, Phoenix just kind of stumlbed around.
How would you feel if you were passed up for something by someone you truly thought was inferior. Krissi might have thought this made him inferior, thus forcing him to ruin Wright to regain his "lost" Honor.
@Writer. Krissi doens't legally count as a serial killer.
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FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
I think Krissi's personality didn't allow for the fact that someone as ditzy as was chosen over him. That's where he began to flirt with the dark corners of his mind where men dare not go
was chosen over him. That's where he began to flirt with the dark corners of his mind where men dare not goAre we sure about that? My understanding was that Kristoph met with Vera and gave her the nail polish while he was still the planned attorney--since the replacement happened less than 24 hours before trial. His first attempted murder was set in motion before his humiliation.
Of course, his next two murders are definitely the product of his replacement and his spectacular failure to handle it like a normal human being--I accept that--but it seems to me that the first murder was the product of something else entirely.
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KFDirector wrote:
FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
I think Krissi's personality didn't allow for the fact that someone as ditzy as was chosen over him. That's where he began to flirt with the dark corners of his mind where men dare not go
was chosen over him. That's where he began to flirt with the dark corners of his mind where men dare not goAre we sure about that? My understanding was that Kristoph met with Vera and gave her the nail polish while he was still the planned attorney--since the replacement happened less than 24 hours before trial. His first attempted murder was set in motion before his humiliation.
Of course, his next two murders are definitely the product of his replacement and his spectacular failure to handle it like a normal human being--I accept that--but it seems to me that the first murder was the product of something else entirely.
This feels like work. Haha.
or Bitter Harvest. But I digress. Give me a minute.
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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When I grow up, I hope to one day become a prosecutor or maybe even a paralegal. Now I'm working my ass off. Then one day, a crime happens. I thought I was going to prosecute someone... but someone else ended up doing it instead. Now would I care? No. But Kristoph did.
To each their own, but I personally wouldn't give a rat's ass about it.
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FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
Maze of Mind was a book I had to read in college. Nevermind.
I'm going to go out on a limb.
Kristoph strikes as a guy who worked really, really hard to make it as a Defense Attorney. Where as, In my opinion, Phoenix just kind of stumlbed around.
How would you feel if you were passed up for something by someone you truly thought was inferior. Krissi might have thought this made him inferior, thus forcing him to ruin Wright to regain his "lost" Honor.
Well, Phoenix did go to law school (we would imagine) and he cared about what he did. He didn't have as much time as Kristoph did to practice at trial.
FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
@Writer. Krissi doens't legally count as a serial killer.
All right, maybe that was the wrong word choice. My point is he killed more than one person. One of them with nail polish. That is stylish.
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Writer Awakened wrote:
The poisoned stamp and nail polish were originally just part of his contingency plan if the forgeries were found out, yeah.
Maze of Mind was a book I had to read in college. Nevermind.
I'm going to go out on a limb.
Kristoph strikes as a guy who worked really, really hard to make it as a Defense Attorney. Where as, In my opinion, Phoenix just kind of stumlbed around.
How would you feel if you were passed up for something by someone you truly thought was inferior. Krissi might have thought this made him inferior, thus forcing him to ruin Wright to regain his "lost" Honor.
Well, Phoenix did go to law school (we would imagine) and he cared about what he did. He didn't have as much time as Kristoph did to practice at trial.
FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
Maze of Mind was a book I had to read in college. Nevermind.
I'm going to go out on a limb.
Kristoph strikes as a guy who worked really, really hard to make it as a Defense Attorney. Where as, In my opinion, Phoenix just kind of stumlbed around.
How would you feel if you were passed up for something by someone you truly thought was inferior. Krissi might have thought this made him inferior, thus forcing him to ruin Wright to regain his "lost" Honor.
Well, Phoenix did go to law school (we would imagine) and he cared about what he did. He didn't have as much time as Kristoph did to practice at trial.
It's..... Hold on.
Attorneys judge each other by Courtroom styles. Krissi is like a Dick DeGuerin or a John Connally. Dignified and all that.
Hardly has any style.I think
's personality also bothered Krissi.
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FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
I think
's personality also bothered Krissi. It is a pleasure to meet you, Mr. Wright. A pleasure to meet you too.
(.....Is that a... unicorn horn? That can't be natural. Maybe it got caught in a blender....) *Reads Phoenix's mind* (I know what you thought there....)Gee, he can read minds now? What's next.
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never gonna give you up! never gonna let you down. He's got style XD
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The really crazy people become one of two things.
Murderers
or
Politicians.
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Re: Who's the most evil out of all 4 games? Vote! (Big spoilers!
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FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:
:phoenix: Hardly has any style.
I think 's personality also bothered Krissi.
I think
's personality also bothered Krissi. 's courtroom style was to get bailed out at the last minute by 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, etc., as the case may be. That bothered everyone, I'm sure--Godot, for certain, Franziska and Edgeworth, probably, me, definitely.Quote:
The really crazy people become one of two things.
Murderers
or
Politicians.
Murderers
or
Politicians.
Eerie--the thought just occurred to me: if Kristoph really wanted to bring Phoenix down, all he would need is the influence to get the legislature/judiciary committee/whatever-we're-using-now to create a new rule of trial procedure: "No necromancy in the courtroom!" A Phoenix without access to Kurain channeling in a pinch is a Phoenix whose record would become a disaster.
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KFDirector wrote:
Eerie--the thought just occurred to me: if Kristoph really wanted to bring Phoenix down, all he would need is the influence to get the legislature/judiciary committee/whatever-we're-using-now to create a new rule of trial procedure: "No necromancy in the courtroom!" A Phoenix without access to Kurain channeling in a pinch is a Phoenix whose record would become a disaster.
'Jection.
Maya was not around for awhile, even when Phoenix took the case where he ended up being framed. He doesn't need Maya or channeling anymore. Plus at the end of TAT, Mia said that "Phoenix had surpassed her and had nothing more to learn", meaning it would be useless to channel Mia for help again.
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Super Judge Bro. wrote:
'Jection.
Maya was not around for awhile, even when Phoenix took the case where he ended up being framed. He doesn't need Maya or channeling anymore. Plus at the end of TAT, Mia said that "Phoenix had surpassed her and had nothing more to learn", meaning it would be useless to channel Mia for help again.
Maya was not around for awhile, even when Phoenix took the case where he ended up being framed. He doesn't need Maya or channeling anymore. Plus at the end of TAT, Mia said that "Phoenix had surpassed her and had nothing more to learn", meaning it would be useless to channel Mia for help again.
Withdrawn. Mostly just my lingering annoyance with the plot structure for most of the series; I'd pay money for a version of the original trilogy where the player is allowed to figure a few more things out for themselves without calling on the dead.
Although...he's without Fey help for what, four months, before he falls into a trap and gets disbarred?
EDIT: Just sayin'.
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KFDirector wrote:
Although...he's without Fey help for what, four months, before he falls into a trap and gets disbarred?
Precisely.Mia's done, she can't help him anymore. Why bother channeling her for case help anymore?
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