Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:04 am

Murira

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Welcome to the Gyakuten Taisen Let's-Get-Things-Straight Thread!

SO GUYS. I'm trying to avoid studying for finals, so I'm gonna talk about how I want to make a Phoenix Wright game. And not just any Phoenix Wright game. A game where the defense and the prosecution literally battle in court. Like. ROUND ONE, FIGHT. Street Fighter. King of Fighters. Y'know? :D Except it would be more like: TESTIMONY ONE, CROSS EXAMINATION START. And then you'd fight.

Okay, first thing's first.
This is meant to be a fighting game. It's not a casemaker case thing or whatever. I'm planning to code the engine and draw sprites and all that jazz. Since I learned some OpenGL this quarter at my university, I figured, "Hey, let's put that PW fighting game idea into action!" It also gives me an excuse to finally learn how to work the Microsoft XNA Game Developer kit that I downloaded like six months ago [if I decide to use it, anyway]. AND, since I'm hoping to get into game design sometime after I graduate [which is like...in 6 months. haha.], I figured I should try actually making a game so that my resume will look a little bit shinier.

Does anybody have any suggestions from a programmer's point of view for what language would be a good place for me to start? I'm a computer science/engineering major but programming was never really a hobby of mine, soooo...yeah. I was thinking of using C++ and OpenGL or Microsoft's C# XNA thing. Or maybe Python + OpenGL? Java + OpenGL? C++ + DirectX ? Or Flash, if it comes down to it. Flash is great for being cross-platform-y, and Java too, but I dunno much about C++ or Python [they taught us Java in school >.>;; ]. And also, I'm not the strongest of programmers, but it's something I definitely need to work on if I want to ensure that I can get a job somewhere, so I figure this might be a fun way to do it!

But first, please understand that this is a concept thread. I make no guarantees on when I'll actually start working on it, since I'm a busy girl. But I could maybe start on the engine this holiday break. :D

Now that that's over with, let's get on with the fun bit!

So how I envision this game to play is like this: It looks like your average fighter, with the health bar and all that up top [made to look like the health meter from the game]. Underneath the health bar, there's an evidence meter, and when you fill it up all the way by landing unblocked hits on your opponent, it'll say that you have "DECISIVE EVIDENCE" and you can execute a special "OBJECTION!" move that's very shiny and takes away a lot of HP.

If you are able to execute an Objection move, a short sequence of sentences pulls up on the screen, and you should type out what it says. It'd be a sentence like, "This evidence makes it clear that on the night of the blah blah you did something or other!" Except maybe a little better-worded than that. And I guess as a counterattack sort of thing, your opponent would also have sentences to type out as a rebuttal to your Objection, and if they successfully type it out, it takes out a bit of power from your Objection move.

Speaking of counterattacks, I thought it'd be neat if your fighter yelled "HOLD IT!" when you stop an attack and do a counter.

And I also thought it neat if you could have a secondary character that you could have pop in and out and do a quickie attack. I'm not well-versed in fighters that aren't Street Fighter or Soul Calibur, so I dunno if they have a similar system, but I was thinking it could be something like Naruto Ultimate Ninja, where if you get one of those summon card things, your partner character comes in and attacks and then leaves. For example, if you're playing Phoenix and you pick Maya as your sidekick, Maya pops in and throws a stepladder at your opponent, then disappears again. Or something.

There will be none of this Player 1 and Player 2 business. There will be the Defense and the Prosecution. :D So if the Defense wins, instead of "PLAYER 1 WINS," it'll be "NOT GUILTY." And for the Prosecution, it shall be "GUILTY." And there shall be confetti. Maybe. Haha.

Case Mode [if I can actually make the fight system work...at all :payne:

] would be your story mode. Play through the game's first five cases in awesome fighter-vision! :D Gather your decisive evidence! Solve the case! Bring justice! WITH YOUR FISTS.

Okay, guys, your turn to talk. Tell me how you imagine PW characters would fight!

Phoenix Wright: I kinda see him fighting like a [kick]boxer. Maybe kinda like Ryu in Street Fighter? Except instead of Hadouken, he can have "OBJECTION!" or "TAKE THAT!".

Miles Edgeworth: Maybe with a more elegant flair? Kind of like how people move in Avatar: The Last Airbender. If he were in Soul Calibur, I could see him fighting like Raphael.

Maya Fey: Not sure about Maya. I watched some Guilty Gear videos and thought I could see her moving like Jam.

Mia Fey: Since she's Phoenix's teacher-figure and all, I figured she and Phoenix should fight similarly. Sakura from Street Fighter, maybe?

Franziska von Karma: Haha, dunno who to even compare her to. Ivy from Soul Calibur? Yay.

Manfred von Karma: Cuz I think it's hilarious if you get to fight with von Karma. I could see him moving kinda slower-ish, but with lots of power. Like...Ganondorf? :D He could also have awesome taser-ing action.

Dick Gumshoe: I imagine him fighting like a boxer. XD;

Marvin Grossberg: Lulz.

...And more people that I haven't really thought too hard about yet.

Go nuts, people! :D

Wonderment (fanfic version)

Last edited by Murira on Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:37 am

saluk

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Well, I have an opinion on the technology. Although you may not be the best programmer, you are the best programmer to get this project started, seeing as it is your vision and your excitement about the project that will start it. So you should choose the technology that, barring any other considerations, you would be able to use to take the project to completion. From my view, language choice doesn't really matter as long as whatever you choose fits you and you can become proficient enough with it to finish a project.

If it were me I would program it in python, since it has been my language of choice for 5+ years and I am very proficient in it. However, for you java or flash may be better. Or C#. Of course there are other considerations, such as platform (what kind of audience will even be able to play it) and speed considerations (c#,java, or python, you will have to be careful how you use them to avoid speed problems). Also, if you already know C# and java, other languages should be easier to learn, and there's nothing like a big project to find out that you have a lot to learn no matter how well you know the language.

Then there is distribution issue. How easy will releasing the project be? Something like flash, there are things like newgrounds where you can get a lot of exposure. XNA is another example, where while you are limited to windows, you do get a lot of exposure. Since part of your reasoning is for portfolio, exposure is good!

Any choice you make is going to limit you in some way, so you need to just pick your limits, and then choose the technology that fits the limitations you picked. There are your abilities, portability, exposure, and I forgot to mention that something that works well with others would be good too. Although there are people with wide skills, you should be able to find someone who can help from any of the platforms.

But yeah, my first recommendation would be to go with what you know the most of already, unless you want to use this project as an excuse to learn something else and pad your resume, in which case you want to choose the tech that is most different from everything else you already know :)

I don't have much to add about the actual game, sorry :)

Creator of PyWright, the lovable case construction system!
Also visit the PyWright post.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:57 am

Ceres

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Well, this seems interesting, one question though.
It seems you got the programming part covered, but that brings the question, what of graphics?
Judging from Guilty gear sprites, that's quite a lot of poses and would take an incredibly long time to make.

(ps: I like the logo ^_^ , oh yeah, I always imagined Edgeworth to fight like that vampire guy from Guilty gear, but the replace the cape manipulation with a cravat XP.
Good luck with this project!)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:27 am

Cold52

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(wants to play godot...especially if he gets to fire his lazah beams...or throw his coffee cup...atleast spit his coffee

) but seriously i think godot would probably fight like Leon...with alittle Brad wong mixed in

(both characters are from Dead Or Alive)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:00 am

Murira

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@saluk: Ooh, wow, I'll keep all that in mind. Thank you! And in regards to what you were talking about with technology: I've been thinking about the best way to go about it for a while already, actually. I just never wrote it down so I could get a good look at it. Haha. I figured if I used XNA, it'd be slightly easier because it does a lot of stuff for you already, but like you said, Windows only. I looked up Python and found this site, and it's making Python look very nice to me. Haha. Flash is also good, except that if the game gets really big, I'd probably have to split it into smaller chunks so it doesn't take forever to load. Hmm, that'd actually be a fun thing for me to do, since I'm into PHP-ing things and all that. Or I could learn speed optimization trickery. D: It's trickery, I say! Anywho, thanks for your input! :D

@Ceres: I'm planning to draw all the sprites. x__x That's a lot of sprites for me to draw...maybe if this project of mine actually goes anywhere, I can ask some artists to help me. Haha. Glad you like the logo. XD It's still a little rough around the edges since I did it in the middle of my studying time [so I didn't go grab my tablet]. I wish I had the exact Gyakuten Saiban font. The one I used comes close enough though.

@Cold52: Hahaha, as soon as you said "Godot" and "lazah beams," I thought of him doing a huge "SHOOP DA WHOOP!!!" And I watched videos of Leon and Brad Wong. He seems more Brad Wong than Leon to me. Leon is...brutal. @_@ Or maybe he can just be cool and fight only with his feet [one hand has coffee and other in pocket], with coffee-spitting and stuff. XD;; For some reason, when I thought of coffee-spitting, I thought of Sub-Zero.

Wonderment (fanfic version)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:00 pm

Eduds

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Have you ever heard of the MUGEN engine? It's good for 2d fighting games
And I see Franziska as Whip from KoF :ka-whip:

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:25 pm

RandomJibberish

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Wow, looks awesome :godot:

I can't wait to play it!

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:52 pm

DramaticaXIV2

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Looks interesting. Can't wait until it becomes real.

...but you had to THINK before comparing Franny to Ivy? :redd:

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Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:00 pm

Steel Samurai

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Phoenix could fight like Yun-sung from Soul Calibur, with all the amazing kick combos and stuff :D

This is a nice idea, the sprites could be MUGEN-like, perhaps?

Spoiler: StepMania vids

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:33 pm

Murira

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@Eduds: Ohhh, coool. Thanks for that! Whip looks neat. I looked at what the MUGEN engine is, but I'm looking to write my own engine. Thanks though!

@RandomJibberish: :D

@Dramatica: I was trying not to make the obvious connection....Yeah. Let's go with that. :oops:

@Steel Samurai: Hmm. He could work fighting like Yun-sung. :D As for sprites, I'm hoping I can give them a sort of Guilty Gear-ish feel. But if I make the game in Flash, the sprites...will look like Flash. XD;;

Wonderment (fanfic version)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:47 pm

Cold52

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Murira wrote:

@Eduds: Ohhh, coool. Thanks for that! Whip looks neat. I looked at what the MUGEN engine is, but I'm looking to write my own engine. Thanks though!

@RandomJibberish: :D

@Dramatica: I was trying not to make the obvious connection....Yeah. Let's go with that. :oops:

@Steel Samurai: Hmm. He could work fighting like Yun-sung. :D As for sprites, I'm hoping I can give them a sort of Guilty Gear-ish feel. But if I make the game in Flash, the sprites...will look like Flash. XD;;

wow...i totally forgot...(wants to see a playable steel samurai...with his own stage and theme music playing)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:15 pm

MrCheeze

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Sounds good! I'm not sure about the whole "type stuff out" thing, though.

*Has nothing else to say*

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:42 pm

lukegb

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@saluk: yeah, Python is good. I've finally taken the plunge and started learning it (not for desktop apps, mind, for Django)

Me = not too fussed, really. XNA *will* work (+ heavy effort + Windows license) under Linux + Wine, and I do multiboot my Linux/FreeBSD/Windows stuff, so I'm not too bothered.

I HOPE IT WORKS GREAT :D

Web developer by night, school student by day. That's how I roll.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:51 pm

Prosecutor Manella

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This COULD work in MUGEN, but you probs won't get much exposure for it, considering MUGEN peaked about 2-3 years ago.

I hope you can use people who are prosecutors and attoreneys in the game, but do't appear in court, like Lana, Robert Hammond and Greggy Edgeworth. Also, Ema(young aide) PRETTYPLZ.

Actually, limiting yourself to Attorneys/Aides/Police could make the game unbalanced and short. Have some witnesses, too.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:49 pm

Murira

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@lukebg: Haha, that's what I was worried about with XNA. I don't want people who'd really want to play it to have to work harder to make it run just cuz they use Linux or Macs. So I guess my best bet is either Python or Flash. I'm sort of leaning toward Flash at the moment. XD

@Prosecutor Manella: Ohh, haha, what I meant by Defense and Prosecution was just a way to rename Player 1 and Player 2. XD I wanted to play with witnesses too. Like Larry. And Oldbag. :D

Wonderment (fanfic version)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:04 pm

Ceres

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You wanted to play...with oldbag?
o_O

Anyway, What size are we talking here? in case of flash, not big I presume (not the filesize but resolution i mean)
I fiddled around with Mugen a couple of years ago, beats making a entire new engine for it. :P
+ customize like crazy.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:06 pm

Prosecutor Manella

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I like playing with oldbag.

Seriously, her Decisive move would be an EPIC LASER BLAST.

But the sentence she'd have to type out? MAN.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:29 pm

DramaticaXIV2

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With Oldbag, you'll have to type 2x as long sentences 2x as quickly.

ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOGANT

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:49 pm

Murira

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@Ceres: XD Hahaha, cool about Mugen, but part of the reason I wanna do this from scratch is to prove to myself that I can. We'll see how far I get. XD

@Prosecutor Manella and Dramatica: She could be one of those niche characters that people hate to use cuz it's hard to do anything cool, but MAN, for the people that can...? :D

Wonderment (fanfic version)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:38 pm

Prosecutor Manella

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Like Akuma. B*tch to use, if you can, you can't be beat.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:46 pm

RandomJibberish

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Or Olimar or Snake is SSBB. Kinda in a different way from each other, though.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:58 pm

Prosecutor Manella

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Dessie: Global Warming: turns bike around and shoots about 1000000 megatons of fumes in opponents face.

YES.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:26 pm

RandomJibberish

I hate Klaviema >_>

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Now I want Brushel, Stickler and Big Wins. Now.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:47 pm

DramaticaXIV2

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Oh, and a 4-3 character.

Spoiler: AJ Spoilers

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Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:23 am

Prosecutor Manella

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Daryan's super move involves shooting Hair Gel really fast out of his hair by rubbing it.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:33 am

RandomJibberish

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Anyhow, I could help with spritework, if you're overloaded. As Ceres said, it could take a while on your own.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:49 am

Prosecutor Manella

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I'd love to help with spriteworks, but I'd rather have something to go off, for the styles of the fighters.

As soon as something's there, consider me in.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:23 am

RandomJibberish

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Prosecutor Manella wrote:

As soon as something's there, consider me in.

Ditto.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:39 am

Murira

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Oooh, thanks for the help offers, guys! :D

I kinda wanted to do it in Flash so there'd be no need for people to install anything, but the only thing that bothers me with Flash is that if you draw in it, it's very Flash-y. Buuut, I'm not sure what happens to the file size when you import PNG images and stuff [because I'd like for the sprites to look like they'd be for a not-Flash-game]. Then again, PHP is a thing I'm into, so if it came to that, I could integrate the game into a site so Flash only loads the relevant things...if that's even possible. I'd have to look into it... XD

The thing is I'm trying not to make the sprites look like edits of anything. I was planning on looking stupid and using a video camera or webcam to videotape myself moving, and then basing the sprites off of that. XD If anyone's got any better ideas, I'm all ears. Hahaha.

Wonderment (fanfic version)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:47 am

RandomJibberish

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You can import sprites into flash, for certain...

For the sprites: You need to make a normal pose, than look at other fighting game sprites to see how each animation works. Than you should be able to edit your way to a nice animation.

Also, there's a really good pixelart tutorial here, that explains fighting game sprites rather well.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:09 am

Murira

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Oh, I know they can be imported. I just don't want it to take forever to load. Haha.

Hmm. I guess we could do edits. I just don't want them to be complete copies of other fighting sprites. But it'd be good to look at spritesheets to get a feel for how they work. Anywho, thanks for that link! I'll take a look at it. :D

Wonderment (fanfic version)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:19 am

RandomJibberish

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I didn't say to do edits. I just said to look at spritesheets to see how the animations should look.

Sorry, I worded it horribly :godot:

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:22 am

Murira

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Oooh, haha, I gotcha. :odoroki:

Wonderment (fanfic version)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:11 am

saluk

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Murira wrote:

The thing is I'm trying not to make the sprites look like edits of anything. I was planning on looking stupid and using a video camera or webcam to videotape myself moving, and then basing the sprites off of that. XD If anyone's got any better ideas, I'm all ears. Hahaha.

Rotoscoping is a tried and true method to good animation. Mortal Kombat for instance used fmv to create their characters, but even better examples are flashback or prince of persia. Plus, it might be fun to jump around and look silly :)

But yeah, looking at other fighting game sprites wouldn't hurt. And I was about to point out tsugomo's tutorial, but then I noticed RandomJibberish already sic'ed you on that one. That is the best tutorial I know.

Hmm, I'm not so sure about the typing bit. This game does need something beyond just a random SFII clone with GS characters, but I'm not sure if the typing would be the thing. Something where you have to choose the right evidence and display it at the right time or something? Not sure how that would work exactly, but maybe someone else can add to it. It could work like rock paper scissors, you yell hold it and both characters freeze while you both choose evidence to show. Some of the evidence might block the other or even counterattack.

Also, what about the judge? Maybe every once in a while he can get in on the action in some way. Tossing gavels around that you have to dodge lol. Maybe as the life bars get low, hehe.

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Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:57 pm

Murira

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All righty then. I'll take a peek and analyze them fighting sprites when I can. :D

I really do like the typing thing, but I guess if it was whole sentences it'd probably get annoying. So maybe, rather than whole sentences, you type out key words of the sentence? Or do like you suggested and pick evidence out of a bunch of them. I dunno about the rock-paper-scissors thing, though. If I spent a lot of time building up the evidence bar to get all the way to DECISIVE, I wouldn't want a simple rock-paper-scissors game to counteract my super-cool shiny thing [which would only work if it hit in the first place].

Wonderment (fanfic version)

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:32 pm

RandomJibberish

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I don't mind the typing...

It might be annoying if you aren't a fast typer, but that comes down to practice :godot:

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:24 am

DeMatador

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Hmm, the typing could turn into button smashing, maybe?
Like those games where you crash attacks and have to smash two buttons, you know. It's not AA related, but it works for a fighting game.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:30 am

Pierre

Gettin' Old!

Gender: Male

Location: Scotland

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14363

Ahhh! Finally my dreams can come alive :garyuu:

Provided this works out.

Godot needs laser beams and Gant should get his massive roar uppercut as an attack :karma-scream:

maybe even a Taser jab.

Also Edgey should get an attack where he knocks the opponent off their feet briefly before jumping and grabbing their face to slam it into the ground with one hand the same way he slams his desk :shy:

I'll be quiet now...

Made by Chesu+Zombee

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:16 am

RandomJibberish

I hate Klaviema >_>

Gender: Male

Location: UK

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:17 pm

Posts: 1938

Will you be able to to have chargeable moves? If so, make a godot one where he drinks his coffee while charging, and then spits it out when you release the button. the longer you charge, the longer teh range and more damage it does.

Also, how big should the sprites be? I might try making some, if you don't mind...

Re: Gyakuten Taisen brainstorm thread! :D

Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:17 pm

Murira

Slammin' Flower Child

Gender: Female

Location: Hiding under your bed with that monster you forgot about.

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:02 am

Posts: 205

DeMatador wrote:

Hmm, the typing could turn into button smashing, maybe?
Like those games where you crash attacks and have to smash two buttons, you know. It's not AA related, but it works for a fighting game.

Haha, I never particularly liked those myself... :oops:

@ Herr Blondie: Yessssss. Godot. Ahahahaha. Good ideas! :D

@ Random: Oooh, that's a good idea too. XD That'd be something to work on once I get the base system working.

@__@ My winter break is almost over and school is gonna start and I'll have no tiiime...I really wanna do this though, so I'm gonna try to make time! RAWR! D:<

Wonderment (fanfic version)