Huh, good points. I would say something...but I guess I'm just biased, it was my first game in the series after like 3 years. And I guess I only liked the last case because of the twist...but if you don't mind me asking, how was it copied from 1-5

I didn't say that it's copied, I said that they're linked (case 1 to case 4 and 4 to case 5)

When I said 1-5 I meant AA Case 5, and I wasn't replying to you. Haha.

I fail to understand why some of you say case 3 is the best. For me, it's the worst, even if you play as my favourite character. I'd like to hear your reasons for this.

I fail to understand why some of you say case 3 is the best. For me, it's the worst, even if you play as my favourite character. I'd like to hear your reasons for this.

If I give off the impression that I hate Dual Destinies, it's not my intention. I'm just bothered by all of the problems with it. I guess I really want it to be good, and I end up getting disappointed. Originally, I ranked DD as my favourite AA game, but then it fell to third and now it's below my top 3.

I fail to understand why some of you say case 3 is the best. For me, it's the worst, even if you play as my favourite character. I'd like to hear your reasons for this.

If I give off the impression that I hate Dual Destinies, it's not my intention. I'm just bothered by all of the problems with it. I guess I really want it to be good, and I end up getting disappointed. Originally, I ranked DD as my favourite AA game, but then it fell to third and now it's below my top 3.

if you don't mind me asking, how was it copied from 1-5

I fail to understand why some of you say case 3 is the best. For me, it's the worst, even if you play as my favourite character. I'd like to hear your reasons for this.

and there were some weird implications in "outing" Robin.

I fully agree when it comes to that certain matter.

Left a really bad taste in the mouth for sure.

It's the most complex crime, it's a themed murder, it had the most twists of all the cases, and I liked Scuttlebutt.

Of course, it definitely has some problems. Mostly in the first day--in retrospect, the first day in court seems kinda pointless, and there were some weird implications in "outing" Robin.

Also, (for me, personally) "my favorite DD case" is really not a high bar.

Sorry for this, but I'm newbie: how can I delete the double post?

The main problem is that the dark age of the law just doesn't make any sense. We know of plenty of attorneys, prosecutors, and law enforcement agents before Nick and Blackquill that were corrupt--so why did they kick off the dark age of the law? Plus, when we expose the truth behind the dark age of the law, the true culprits are another attorney and a police officer--so how is that supposed to restore the public's faith? There's also a bit of a "tell but not show" problem.

As far as the creation of the DAotL goes, think of it as a "straw breaking the camels back" sort of thing. Japanifornialand has seen so many people in power go down over the years, but, at the very least, there's been one person, seemingly always in the midst of things, to see that justice is served: Phoenix Wright. He's the one person known for consistently fighting for the truth without some sort of shady background.

Now it turns out that he was corrupt as well. The last bastion of hope, so to speak, goes down the drain. Phoenix's disbarment isn't so much the cause of the Dark Age of the Law as it is the final push over the edge.

I'm speculating a bit on how Blackquill works into this as well, but I would imagine it would have to do with the way he was convicted. His trial was over pretty quickly, so it was quite possibly interpreted as the prosecutor's office railroading one of its own. I kind of get the sense that Blackquill wasn't so much a contributor in the same way that Phoenix was, he just wound up being a figurehead for it. A corrupt prosecutor tossed in jail with a suspicious trial to boot.

On how revealing the culprits fixes things, it doesn't fix them immediately. In fact, the game goes well out of its way (particularly at the end with Edgeworth) to say that things aren't going to suddenly improve overnight. It's more about taking the first steps in the right direction. Admitting that Blackquill's trial was a mistake and taking steps to make the prosecutor's office more transparent. It's not an overnight solution, and Edgeworth himself says that it'll take time in his appearance during the credits. It's just the start of hopefully turning things around.

I agree with this completely.
And also because when Athena speaks up she's ignored...maybe that also had something to do with it? The courts ignoring potential witnesses?

So, the Dark Age of Law is basically a not-very-well thought excuse to give Nick his badge back and tie him to the the plot.

Dual Destinies didn't have a single one case that was altogether amazing, but it DID have PARTS of the game that were; and that's what makes me like it. This game was a roller coaster of WHAT EVEN IS THAT?! to OOOH MAN THAT'S EPIC! But it was very enjoyable and it was lovely to see recurring characters again, AND to see a new colourful cast!

And that's the real problem here. It's clearly stated that it was people's mistrust which caused the corruption and not the other way around, and yet, nothing that happened in Turnabout for Tomorrow should logically solve that. Actually, it'd probably make things worse. So no matter what you do against corruption, the root of the problem (the mistrust) is still there.

Also, there's no real reason why admitting that Blackquill trial was a mess should be the first step to solve all the corruption, other than to make the two persons who allegedly started the Dark Age of Law end it poetically. For starters, nobody thought that there was something fishy with Blackquill's trial before Phoenix exposed it. And you'd think that the Chief Prosecutor of all people would have the power to do something about the corruption in the Prosecutor's Office regardless of the conviction of some specific prosecutor who was found guilty of murder, not of forging evidence, pressing false charges (No, really, this part is hilarious. The fact that prosecutors press false charges is considered a part of the Dark Age of Law. In a game about defending people against false charges.) or anything related to his job.

So, the Dark Age of Law is basically a not-very-well thought excuse to give Nick his badge back and tie him to the the plot.

The game then tells us that once we solve this one case (that the world apparently cares about) the Dark Age of Law (public distrust in law) automatically disappears.

Dark Age of Law as caused by UR-1 = nonsense -- The game thinks this is true however
Dark Age of Law as caused by Means' "methods" of teaching = Too vague. How does one teacher's influence with what we've known Means to have done bring a "dark age" upon the law? It's a very weak argument from the story to justify the theme of Dark Age of Lol. -- Game thinks this is true.
Dark Age of Law as caused by multiple cases over 10 years of corrupt high-ranking members of the legal system, causing disbelief and distrust in the public, in magazines, in TV (often implied everyone watches courtroom battles on TV in Ace Attorney-land lol), perhaps causing people to protest (potential case here?) -- yet, the game never goes with this idea at all.

Super dumb and vaguely written in a way that makes no sense. The main intended theme of DD isn't even a true theme, but a pretentious one.

So Means is evil because he uses evil means to achieve evil goals. Well, obviously. And also obviously, if you use good means to achieve good goals, then you're good. The only possible discussion would be whether using evil means to achieve good goals is right or wrong. And that's where 'the end justifies the means' philosophy comes into play. Means makes Machiavelli cry.

But they talk about DAotL as if it's almost like some physical thing, and not an era or a state. I know Edgeworth and Nick talk a bit more realistically about it post-court in the final case but several times in court they're like "we're gonna solve this case and END the dark age of law". I know I shouldn't take it this literally, but still, I think the game doesn't do enough to convince you that the legal system is in turmoil by showing the surroundings or what's on the periphery outside of individual people or cases.

Means doesn't work because he's so friggin basic. He's a jerk who bribes his students for money while teaching in (some sort of) a style in which you practice reasoning and logic where the end justifies the means. It seems as if the writers wanted the theme to be "this guy is very end justifies the means" but they didn't have to outright make him say what his own characteristics were. It's basic show-don't-tell that they (as always) break. If you wanna tell me that something is going on, show it to me. Show me its impact, its implications and effect on the world, the characters etc. don't tell me something is happening and don't show it. All we're shown is that Means is bad because he bribes someone. It tells us he's bad because his philosophy is very rational... or something. It never actually shows us the effect of his teachings, it just says "he's bad" but his actions don't show anything impressive.

Means doesn't do much to convince me that the legal system is in turmoil, neither does UR-1. Nothing is worse than ever when compared to AA1, but collectively all the past cases and UR-1 along with Means could've been used to show us how the public had no trust anymore.

Maybe there were signs of it. IDK, Scuttlebutt? Aura? Whatever it was, I did not feel convinced at all. IMO they showed less than enough to convince you that the public was in distrust. We needed more characters who outright rejected court or maybe even the police causing uproar in protest that the courts are full of criminals or something to that effect. I think the theme of Dark Age of the Law seems so grand that it's just too grimdark or political for Ace Attorney to handle tbh.

What about the bonus case? Anyone gonna talk about that?

DR CRAB. ...enough said.

What about the bonus case? Anyone gonna talk about that?