Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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But other than those two things, this case is a whole lot better.
Spoiler: 5.2
Spoiler: 1.5, 3.4, 5.2
*Edited to add spoiler tags to various sections.
Last edited by Aquabreeze on Sun May 10, 2015 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Aquabreeze wrote:
and then you have Apollo in court, derping all over the place and poking himself in the eye.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
meowza
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MBr wrote:
The game is incredibly slow paced and somewhat restrictive. Investigations take forever and you can only investigate explicit areas, which are never more than two per case. Presenting evidence outside of court has no effect unless you were prompted by the assistant.
I didn't have much of a problem with the "investigations take forever" bit but "only investigating explict areas" made the game feel less...genuine, I guess? Like you were being walked through where to go instead of thinking and exploring. And while there were some times in the original trilogy where I was downright frustrated with "why do I have to go there what the heck" situations, I'd kind of prefer that over "go where I tell you to and find the really obvious evidence without getting a chance to explore and learn more things about the environment you're in". Presenting evidence outside of court falls under that.
Thinking about it now, I think my issue is that there was less focus on building up the characters and environments and more focus on "how do we make this story as dramatic as possible, no matter how many cliches we have to invoke to do it?". Which I don't have much of a problem with, because I'm a huge sucker for even the tackiest drama, but I feel like it impacted other parts of the game in a bad way.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Aquabreeze wrote:
I still don't really understand why Blackquill is allowed to be a prosecutor- I mean, Lana Skye was stripped of her title as Chief Prosecutor after the events of Rise from the Ashes (...wasn't she?), so why does Blackquill get to keep his? I mean, when you think about it, I can sort of understand when Fulbright (who is very grating and probably my least favorite new character, imo) said that the Chief Prosecutor assigned Blackquill himself. I mean, I already know who the CP is (it was spoiled for me), but what prosecutors does he have other than Blackquill? Godot's in jail (and ironically, ISN'T allowed to prosecute or doesn't want to or whatever), Franziska's missing in action... so who does he have? Klavier and Payne. No wonder he needs Blackquill. But still, if Blackquill can prosecute as a convicted inmate, why can't Godot or Lana Skye?
I'm guessing you haven't played the entire game, because that is explained. If you did and forgot, I'll put it under a spoiler tag.
Spoiler:
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I'm enjoying Case 3 even more.
Spoiler: 5.3
Spoiler: 5.3
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Aquabreeze wrote:
Spoiler: 5.3
"HOLY SHIT YES" is, uh, not exactly how I would respond to the AA development team's handling of that issue.
Spoiler: 5-3
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Spoiler: 5-3
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
OBJECTION!
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Spoiler: 5-3
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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luck wrote:
Revealing the secrets of the witnesses against their will for the sake of the truth has always been a part of the games.
Yeah, but the person whose secrets we're revealing is almost always the killer's. And when it's not, it tends to be directly tied to the crime somehow. And it isn't something so personal.
The most analogous case I can think of is Adrian in 2-4, and even then, it's done by Edgeworth, the rival, the game portrays him as a massive jerk when he does it, and Adrian goes through some pretty rough trauma. It's really different from 5-3, where the player character just goes "Okay, I'm going to reveal your deeply personal and life-changing secret now~" and there's no issues.
(I don't think they were trying to make any deep point about it, and just made things that way so the story/mystery would work out. But even still, the handling of it is kinda... ugh.)
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Enoshima Junko-chan!
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Spoiler: 5-3 Discussion
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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But there are more subtle examples of that than 2-4. Apollo exposed two of his clients in AJ without asking them. It's especially rude in Machi's case because he was a kid who barely speaks English and doesn't understand all that well what's going on risking the death penalty. I know he was an accomplice, but...
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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luck wrote:
But there are more subtle examples of that than 2-4. Apollo exposed two of his clients in AJ without asking them. It's especially rude in Machi's case because he was a kid who barely speaks English and doesn't understand all that well what's going on risking the death penalty. I know he was an accomplice, but...
I know, but as I said, in those cases it's much more directly tied to the crime and not nearly as personal as in 5-3.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
meowza
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MBr wrote:
Spoiler: 5-3 Discussion
"Trans" means "across from". "Cis" means "on the same side as". If the term "transgender" exists to denote that someone identifies as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth, then we need a term to talk about people who identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. That's why "cisgender" is a necessary term. We can't just say "trans" and "not trans", it's awfully messy.
As for the handling of Robin...
Spoiler:
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Enoshima Junko-chan!
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11037
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Sissel wrote:
MBr wrote:
Spoiler: 5-3 Discussion
"Trans" means "across from". "Cis" means "on the same side as". If the term "transgender" exists to denote that someone identifies as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth, then we need a term to talk about people who identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. That's why "cisgender" is a necessary term. We can't just say "trans" and "not trans", it's awfully messy.
The word cis is almost always used in such a derogatory and offensive way that I can't fault people for not liking the term. Hearing that term also has a bit of an... averse reaction on me, and plenty of other people simply because of its use.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
meowza
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Nurio wrote:
The word cis is almost always used in such a derogatory and offensive way that I can't fault people for not liking the term. Hearing that term also has a bit of an... averse reaction on me, and plenty of other people simply because of its use.
The word a descriptive word. If people are being negative towards cis people, that's neither here nor there - that's their opinion, generally developed through years of being hurt by cis-centred/transphobic society, not anything to do with the absolutely necessary and completely inoffensive term itself. Those people would be saying the same things whether we called people who identify with the gender they were assigned at birth "cis", "not trans" or any other term. "Cis" itself has nothing to do with how they feel about cis people.
But that's not really on topic, so if you'd like to discuss further I'd be more than willing to talk about it in PMs. It's a topic I find important (but not the topic of this thread).
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
DGS fucking when..
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Spoiler: Overall impression of DD
That's all for now. Hopefully Dai Gyakuten will be better.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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BadLuckExpert wrote:
Spoiler: Overall impression of DD
That's all for now. Hopefully Dai Gyakuten will be better.
Spoiler:
And we'd actually gotten to know her/she is a main character in the series. Quite a lot of the victims are either not very likable or not developed enough.). Dunno if that makes me a jerk, but, uh...yeah.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
DGS fucking when..
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Professor Yoshi wrote:
- I guess they tried to explain why that was, but yeah. AJ Phoenix is different from DD Phoenix.
This bothers me soo much. I was re-playing AJ and the case where Nick face off against young Klavier is just so awesome. No more "wh-whaaaaaa!!!" bullshit in his expression. He not only criticize Klavier for being too green (which he is) Nick also kept his cool and tries to figure out how the case went in his own head. He's just so cool in this game, and I can never forgive capcom for making him a stupid-ass rookie again in DD.
Also why is court-record so dead? Literally the only updates in the forum are ones I replied to.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
DGS fucking when..
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I thought Phoenix was way more out of character in the AJ flashback
It's called character progression. Given what he went through and years of experience on being a DA it's not strange to see him more confident and mature.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Don't get me wrong, I think his DD portrayal has problems. I don't even have much of a problem with Hobonix. OT Nick is one of my favorite characters ever and probably my favorite protagonist ever, but his portrayal in the flashback of AJ was just the worst
Like, Nick has always been a bit of a smartass but would two months after 3-5 make him a giant dick? Plus, he's always been fairly humble with a few exceptions, but he didn't even respect Klavier at all. It's like he forget that he was a rookie once too
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Yeah but that case was very soon after 3-5
Don't get me wrong, I think his DD portrayal has problems. I don't even have much of a problem with Hobonix. OT Nick is one of my favorite characters ever and probably my favorite protagonist ever, but his portrayal in the flashback of AJ was just the worst
Like, Nick has always been a bit of a smartass but would two months after 3-5 make him a giant dick? Plus, he's always been fairly humble with a few exceptions, but he didn't even respect Klavier at all. It's like he forget that he was a rookie once too
Don't get me wrong, I think his DD portrayal has problems. I don't even have much of a problem with Hobonix. OT Nick is one of my favorite characters ever and probably my favorite protagonist ever, but his portrayal in the flashback of AJ was just the worst
Like, Nick has always been a bit of a smartass but would two months after 3-5 make him a giant dick? Plus, he's always been fairly humble with a few exceptions, but he didn't even respect Klavier at all. It's like he forget that he was a rookie once too
I agree. I know he was more experienced and confident in the flashback but there was no need to make him such a smug, pompous asshole :< I also agree he should have respected Klavier more
Nick and Maya - Friends and Lovers....
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
DGS fucking when..
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Then again the reason Klavier didn't respect Phoenix is because Kristoph told him not to because of the fake evidence so really the one at fault here is Kristoph (as usual)
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I've heard rumors… Bramimond, one of the eight legends, devoted himself entirely to the dark. All emotion, all memory… dissolved in a river of dark. That is how he received the power to best dragons
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Overall i really like the game. Surely for me it was better than Gyakuten Kenji 1 or AJ. So i think that this is the right path that the franchise has to follow.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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BadLuckExpert wrote:
Professor Yoshi wrote:
- I guess they tried to explain why that was, but yeah. AJ Phoenix is different from DD Phoenix.
This bothers me soo much. I was re-playing AJ and the case where Nick face off against young Klavier is just so awesome. No more "wh-whaaaaaa!!!" bullshit in his expression. He not only criticize Klavier for being too green (which he is) Nick also kept his cool and tries to figure out how the case went in his own head. He's just so cool in this game, and I can never forgive capcom for making him a stupid-ass rookie again in DD.
I'd argue calling him a "stupid ass rookie" is taking things way too far and ignoring much of his character in game, as well as simply projecting a ton of development that isn't there. When he's out of court, he very much maintains that mysterious mentor/laid back persona he had during Apollo Justice. That makes a good deal of sense; people mellow with age and Phoenix would certainly be no different, especially considering all he's gone through. This is most of the actual development from Apollo Justice, and I think DD carries it over quite well.
What DD doesn't carry over is the supremely confident "I've got it all figured out" Phoenix, which again, makes sense. Phoenix was putting on an act during Apollo Justice; a consistent charade to keep anyone from figuring out what he was thinking (mostly Kristoph). Now that he's out from underneath that burden, he can drop the act; he doesn't need to pretend like he's got everything figured out. When the pressure's on in court; he lets his more excitable self return to the surface, which I'm honestly fine with. Even with all that, I'd argue he acts far more self confident in court than he did in any of the trilogy games. He lobs plenty of jabs at Blackquill and Edgeworth, and generally has a much better grasp of what's going on.
As for the flashback case in AJ, here's the thing with that; as far as what was revealed in court goes, there weren't really any major surprises that were sprung on Phoenix (at least, in court) before Klavier's trap, so it's a bit of an unfair comparison. Even then, it still shows him sweating plenty. He figures things out on his own, yeah, but he pretty much does the same thing in DD as well. One of the biggest marks of "maturity" that I noticed in DD is that no one ever bails Phoenix out. Unlike previous games, where Larry or Mia will jump in at the last second to throw him a lifesaver, Phoenix always keeps himself afloat, and only really uses his other attorney's tools when it's convenient.
The only department that I really have a complaint in how DD handled Phoenix's persona is in his animations; I kind of wished they had taken the shocked animation out completely or replaced it with a less silly looking one. Someone who's been undefeated at poker for 7 years should probably be able to handle surprise better. Other than that, I can't really complain. DD Phoenix is the result of him maturing over the course of his disbarment while not having to pretend like he's got everything figured out, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see more of that in the future.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I remember facing off against the von Karmas. Manfred constructed Lotta's testimony to keep interesting points away from you, and he hid the enlarged photo from the court. Franziska also hid a photo of Lotta's because it damaged her case. None of the prosecutors in Dual Destinies do anything to this effect, and we're supposedly in the "Dark Age of the Law". I'm not buying it.
I'm also not convinced that the Blackquill case started it. I get that it was the result of both his and Phoenix's cases, but with Phoenix's I can understand. The public saw him as a beacon of hope. He always used fair methods to expose corruption in the legal world. Having him present forged evidence would cause an outrage, as he would have been no better than the people he faced.
Blackquill isn't even the first prosecutor to be suspected of murder. For his case to become so controversial, he must have been similar to Phoenix - having a good reputation so he could fall far from grace. But we don't get that from him. Sure, Athena describes him as nice, but that was when she knew him outside of the courtroom. Plus, he learned psychology so he could manipulate criminals.
11037
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Yeah, sounds about right.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Gregory... Tomorrow, I'm heading towards that fateful place with your son. To find out the truth of 18 years ago...
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Great Revival
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Slammer wrote:
I won't take it for long, 'cause I don't want to repeat what others have already said... I can only say that, although it's not at the level of the previous GS games in terms of plot and game difficulty, I really enjoyed it. I know how people who have played the original DS trilogy felt when they played DD, but, come on, it's not a complete flop!
Wait...people think the story was weaker? In all but one or two of the cases the plot was great!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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ob9410 wrote:
Slammer wrote:
I won't take it for long, 'cause I don't want to repeat what others have already said... I can only say that, although it's not at the level of the previous GS games in terms of plot and game difficulty, I really enjoyed it. I know how people who have played the original DS trilogy felt when they played DD, but, come on, it's not a complete flop!
Wait...people think the story was weaker? In all but one or two of the cases the plot was great!
Yup, many people think that... personally, I liked 5-2 and the DLC case (the first and the fourth are linked with the fifth, so I think they are "neutral"). 5-3 was a huge disappointment to me.
EDIT: now that I'm replaying it, I noticed that I tend to like the two stand-alone cases more. And I changed my opinion on 5-3.
Gregory... Tomorrow, I'm heading towards that fateful place with your son. To find out the truth of 18 years ago...
Last edited by Slammer on Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Great Revival
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Slammer wrote:
ob9410 wrote:
Slammer wrote:
I won't take it for long, 'cause I don't want to repeat what others have already said... I can only say that, although it's not at the level of the previous GS games in terms of plot and game difficulty, I really enjoyed it. I know how people who have played the original DS trilogy felt when they played DD, but, come on, it's not a complete flop!
Wait...people think the story was weaker? In all but one or two of the cases the plot was great!
Yup, many people think that... personally, I liked so much the second, the third and the final case (the first and the fourth are linked with the following cases, so I think they are "neutral"). As for me, only the DLC case was *meh*
Well I loved the DLC case partly because it didn't take itself very seriously compared to the others. It's a nice contrast to case 1, 4 and 5.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
1000% Knight
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ob9410 wrote:
Slammer wrote:
I won't take it for long, 'cause I don't want to repeat what others have already said... I can only say that, although it's not at the level of the previous GS games in terms of plot and game difficulty, I really enjoyed it. I know how people who have played the original DS trilogy felt when they played DD, but, come on, it's not a complete flop!
Wait...people think the story was weaker? In all but one or two of the cases the plot was great!
The main problem is that the dark age of the law just doesn't make any sense. We know of plenty of attorneys, prosecutors, and law enforcement agents before Nick and Blackquill that were corrupt--so why did they kick off the dark age of the law? Plus, when we expose the truth behind the dark age of the law, the true culprits are another attorney and a police officer--so how is that supposed to restore the public's faith? There's also a bit of a "tell but not show" problem.
Case 2 would have been okay but was ruined by the intro.
I found case 3 was the best in the game but I know plenty of people who were turned off by the gushy friendship theme.
A lot of people were turned off by the fact that the last two trials were just 1 case--that is, Capcom tried to pretend the game had 5 cases when it really had 4 (excluding the DLC case). The last case also pretty much directly stole its plot from 1-5.
And last but not least, Athena.
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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ob9410 wrote:
Well I loved the DLC case partly because it didn't take itself very seriously compared to the others. It's a nice contrast to case 1, 4 and 5.
I agree with you here. But I have a question...
Spoiler:
Gregory... Tomorrow, I'm heading towards that fateful place with your son. To find out the truth of 18 years ago...
Last edited by Slammer on Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Great Revival
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Spoiler: DD Case 5 spoiler
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Gregory... Tomorrow, I'm heading towards that fateful place with your son. To find out the truth of 18 years ago...
Last edited by Slammer on Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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