Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
Don't even get me started. Gumshoe rocks
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Type: Phoenix contradicts himself
Location: Courtroom
Explanation:
Phoenix says that the fact that Sahwit/Sawhit (sp?) knew "what time it was" was proof that he went inside, on the basis that he must have "seen" Cindy's clock- or something very similar to this. However, later, it is found that the clock has audio. In case 2, it is stated that April May could have heard it from across the street through a closed window. So it must be really loud! Therefore, Frank need not have gone in the room to have heard "I think...", and therefore, cannot be proven guilty. Also, in the PW world, failure to prove guilt of someone else means the defendant is guilty. Weird, but Phoenix cheated out of a technically deserved "Guilty."
Of course, the fact still stands that Frank did it and not Larry, but... still.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
*twitch* *twitch*
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Justice is blind wrote:
Name: Case 1-1
Type: Phoenix contradicts himself
Location: Courtroom
Explanation:
Phoenix says that the fact that Sahwit/Sawhit (sp?) knew "what time it was" was proof that he went inside, on the basis that he must have "seen" Cindy's clock- or something very similar to this. However, later, it is found that the clock has audio. In case 2, it is stated that April May could have heard it from across the street through a closed window. So it must be really loud! Therefore, Frank need not have gone in the room to have heard "I think...", and therefore, cannot be proven guilty. Also, in the PW world, failure to prove guilt of someone else means the defendant is guilty. Weird, but Phoenix cheated out of a technically deserved "Guilty."
Of course, the fact still stands that Frank did it and not Larry, but... still.
Type: Phoenix contradicts himself
Location: Courtroom
Explanation:
Phoenix says that the fact that Sahwit/Sawhit (sp?) knew "what time it was" was proof that he went inside, on the basis that he must have "seen" Cindy's clock- or something very similar to this. However, later, it is found that the clock has audio. In case 2, it is stated that April May could have heard it from across the street through a closed window. So it must be really loud! Therefore, Frank need not have gone in the room to have heard "I think...", and therefore, cannot be proven guilty. Also, in the PW world, failure to prove guilt of someone else means the defendant is guilty. Weird, but Phoenix cheated out of a technically deserved "Guilty."
Of course, the fact still stands that Frank did it and not Larry, but... still.
April May, even though she is such a darling, made up that lie on the spot. It didn't matter if she said she heard it or not, the clock was broken anyways. It's insides were cleaned. Phoenix even points that out when cross-examining April.
And Phoenix had no proof of how loud the clock was anyways, nor did anyone else.
And I find it funny how first Sahwit says he heard the time (on the TV) , and then phoenix says he couldn't have heard it, and then Sahwit saw the time on a table clock, and then Phoenix proves that he could only have heard the time (by hitting the murder weapon on something). But I guess it all makes sense.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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There's no use arguing about where Maya was when her robe was shot - the game states that she was in the box, and that it was a MIRACLE she wasn't hit. Phoenix himself says it. So when Maya was in the box her robe was shot, and that's the robe that was eventually given to the police.
What if the events went down this way:
Maya enters the chamber with Grey and puts the key in her robe.
While they're both concentrating, Ini pops out of the box, drugs Maya, and stabs Grey in the chest. She gets blood all over her clothes. Thinking that he's dead, she switches clothes with Maya and puts her in the box. Ini now has the key in her sleeve.
Grey pops back up and shoots, hitting Maya's sleeve in the box, a one in a million shot but a shot nonetheless.
Ini stabs him and gets blood all over herself again.
Thus, both robes are covered in blood, Maya's has a hole in it, and Ini's has the key.
Maya is arrested, and Ini's clothes are stowed away until they can be shoved into the incinerator, key and all.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
Bronze Samurai
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Anyway, don't forget that the bullet wasn't found, I believe.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Oh, dang it! I forgot exactly what happened!
I'll try my best to explain; I'll edit (if the need arises) if I remember again.I'm sooo sorry!
Name: Case 2-4
Type: Forensics Fact (I guess that's what you'd call it)
Location: It's explained in the court
Explanation:
Spoiler: big spoilers for 2-2
Again, I'm sure I'm explaining it wrong, but if I figure it out, I'll edit. But someone will probably explain it themselves by then...
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
Suave.
Gender: Male
Rank: Donor
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Posts: 50
Name: Profile Presenting
Type of cough-up: Court Inconsistency
Description: At the beginning of the second game Maggey mentions you can now present profiles, however, you can also do this during the first case of T&T which takes place a few years before AA. As we all know, you can't present profiles in the first game.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
Badass
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Both from 2-3
First, Max states that the bust should be in the cafeteria, yet, the bust disappeared before Max was arrested. Before he hit Ben on the head. Max therefore should have known that it was gone
Secondly, Franziska could have easily countered Phoenix's argument about the silk hat being found at the crime by saying it fell off after Max went past Acro's window. If she had pointed that out, she'd have won the case.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Second: That's not really a contradiction, it's just an example of the prosecution being incompetant. There's been a few instances of that for both sides.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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it was stolen five days before the first day of the trial. The day before was the first investigation and the day before was the day of the murder.2: I realize that, I was just pointing it out =P
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Max made the performers worship that bust (or at least tried to)! How could he of all people not notice it had gone!?
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Max not noticing the missing bust may be incredibly unlikely, but unless you can prove there was absolutely no possibility of that happening, you must accept it as truth. Ergo, there would be no contradiction.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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There were around three days of it being missing. Max, having the huge ego he has, could simply not have missed it for such a large amount of time.
And I might not have proof, but neither do you. It is more likely that he noticed it was missing than him not noticing
*deskslam*
Therefore; the burden of proof is with you!
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Again, how likely something is to occur has no bearing on what actually occurs.
You were the one to suggest the contradiction, therefore, the one who has to prove it is you. If you can't deny the possibility of my explanation, I don't have to prove anything.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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But you have no proof either. In this case, it must go down to likelyhood.
But, if you really want some proof, then...
Present: Capcom
Taking into account Max's character design, there is no way that Capcom would have made Max not notice that the bust was missing.
.gif)
If there was no contradiction, then Capcom would have made Max know about it!
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Ice the frosty cat wrote:
But you have no proof either.
Are you paying any attention to what I'm saying at all? I don't need proof. I'm not the one saying the people who made the game are wrong.
Ice the frosty cat wrote:
In this case, it must go down to likelyhood.
No, it mustn't. It comes down to what actually happened in the game.
Ice the frosty cat wrote:
Taking into account Max's character design, there is no way that Capcom would have made Max not notice that the bust was missing.
That is exactly what they did. Unless you can somehow read the mind of a video game character over a week of in-game time and prove that it was ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE that he did not notice something was missing, your theory is just that: a theory. Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly not a contradiction.
The end.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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And everyone else? They were probably pretending it didn't exist for a long time anyway XD;;
As for Shelly's gloves, the only things in the room Shelly touched were the serving tray (which is not evidence of anything), the scarf he strangled Juan with (I don't think you can lift fingerprints off fabric...?) and then the toy bear (which passed through several hands before the police got it, so what prints were or were not on it is not proof of anything).
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Croik wrote:
As for Shelly's gloves, the only things in the room Shelly touched were the serving tray (which is not evidence of anything), the scarf he strangled Juan with (I don't think you can lift fingerprints off fabric...?) and then the toy bear (which passed through several hands before the police got it, so what prints were or were not on it is not proof of anything).
Seriously? I could've sworn that somewhere in the game, they mentioned that because he wore gloves, they couldn't find fingerprints. Ah well, I should probably find evidence in game, but I don't have time to replay...
Ah well; just like Ema, I have a facination with forensics, so I guess I just jumped on that one!
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Croik wrote:
Let's keep in mind that the bust had been in the cafeteria for a long time - several months, at least? When something is around that often, you don't necessarily take note of it every day. Especially when you're Max, who is a flake to begin with. If Max's time in the cafeteria was often spent fawning over Regina or fighting with Trilo, it's perfectly understandable.
And everyone else? They were probably pretending it didn't exist for a long time anyway XD;;
As for Shelly's gloves, the only things in the room Shelly touched were the serving tray (which is not evidence of anything), the scarf he strangled Juan with (I don't think you can lift fingerprints off fabric...?) and then the toy bear (which passed through several hands before the police got it, so what prints were or were not on it is not proof of anything).
And everyone else? They were probably pretending it didn't exist for a long time anyway XD;;
As for Shelly's gloves, the only things in the room Shelly touched were the serving tray (which is not evidence of anything), the scarf he strangled Juan with (I don't think you can lift fingerprints off fabric...?) and then the toy bear (which passed through several hands before the police got it, so what prints were or were not on it is not proof of anything).
Any explanation for the magic bullet holes from 2-2?
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
machinimator
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Caelestis wrote:
Croik wrote:
As for Shelly's gloves, the only things in the room Shelly touched were the serving tray (which is not evidence of anything), the scarf he strangled Juan with (I don't think you can lift fingerprints off fabric...?) and then the toy bear (which passed through several hands before the police got it, so what prints were or were not on it is not proof of anything).
Seriously? I could've sworn that somewhere in the game, they mentioned that because he wore gloves, they couldn't find fingerprints.
Maybe he wore leather gloves, but let's remember; this man is a professional hitman of the De Killer family. I'm sure that whatever type of glove he used, it was either some special type of leather, or had a special fabric on the fingertips to prevent fingerprints.
By the way, the way I see the magic 8-inches-off-the-ground bullethole is like this:
Ini was in the middle of putting Maya in the box. Maya was probably being lowered into the box, with the sleeve drooping down, when the bullet was fired. Whatever actually happened must be a bit unlikely, but hey, Glen Elg won the lottery once.
As for Frank Sahwit; he was down the hall from the apartment when Larry was in there, and said he heard no scream, or clock, or anything; his first indication of something happening was the open door. Hard to go back on something like that.
Yes, in court, I would probably say something like "Either this man, or my client, is guilty. But there is no definitive proof for either one!"
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
Otaku, #1 Machi fan, #2 Machi Fan
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Name: Maggey = Wellington
Location: 2-1
Type: Translation Error
Description: When Nick is talking about why Wellington didn't need to look for a phone, he says, when the
box is pointed out, "All the defendant had to do was walk three steps!" As we all know, MAGGEY is the Defendant, not WELLINGTON. Still only a translation error.
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOGANT
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
machinimator
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
OK, Katana. Now where's the bullet? It wasn't in the box (or at least they didn't find it).
All the materials in the room were relatively weak. It's not impossible that the bullet went through the screen, through the box and Maya's sleeve, and was buried into the wall. (that's a lot of bulletholes!) From the old, decrepit state of the chamber, it's entirely possible they missed a bullethole. (especially since Gumshoe missed the hole in the folding screen)
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Katana wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
OK, Katana. Now where's the bullet? It wasn't in the box (or at least they didn't find it).
All the materials in the room were relatively weak. It's not impossible that the bullet went through the screen, through the box and Maya's sleeve, and was buried into the wall. (that's a lot of bulletholes!) From the old, decrepit state of the chamber, it's entirely possible they missed a bullethole. (especially since Gumshoe missed the hole in the folding screen)
But, they knew that the gun was fired twice.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Katana wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
OK, Katana. Now where's the bullet? It wasn't in the box (or at least they didn't find it).
All the materials in the room were relatively weak. It's not impossible that the bullet went through the screen, through the box and Maya's sleeve, and was buried into the wall. (that's a lot of bulletholes!) From the old, decrepit state of the chamber, it's entirely possible they missed a bullethole. (especially since Gumshoe missed the hole in the folding screen)
But, they knew that the gun was fired twice.
Extra gunshots didn't seem to make much difference to the prosecution's cases in 1-4 or DL-6.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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The thing is, even if they did find it, so what? What would that bullet prove that the hole in the folding screen didn't?
The gun being fired more times than it should have been was an important point in 1-4 and DL-6 because there wasn't a witness to all of the shots. Everyone knew the gun in 2-2 was fired twice, Phoenix and Lotta were right outside the door when it happened. So why would the police go to so much work to find proof of something already accepted as fact?
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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For all we know, the holes in the box and screen are unrelated. Sure, they were presented as evidence, but without a bullet, Phoenix really had no proof.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Dr. Grey is the only one who died. The police missed the bullet hole in Maya's costume, so they had no way of knowing the identity of the first shooter was of any importance.
They also had a second day of investigation to look for it...
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
"Too Awesome to Die"
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Spoiler: about a certain hobo. Probably being parinoid about spoilers...
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Spoiler: 
Hmmmm... whatever, it is time to (7o_o)7 Sprite Arts Game char Deja-vus? Chores AA char in 3D! Ryu ♥ CR!
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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von Karma had the prosecutor's office supporting him. The AA legal system has always been biased towards the prosecution.
And I'm done with the second bullet argument. The police not finding a bullet isn't a contradiction and the fact that they're that incompetant isn't any big secret.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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Hmmmm... whatever, it is time to (7o_o)7 Sprite Arts Game char Deja-vus? Chores AA char in 3D! Ryu ♥ CR!
People should live freely without constraints.
That's how life should be! - Richard Wellington
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
Surf's Up!
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Name: JFA case 4
Type: Uncaught contradiction in testimony
Location: In courtroom
Explanation:
Type: Uncaught contradiction in testimony
Location: In courtroom
Explanation:
Spoiler:
Spoiler: Just in case
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
True love is forever.
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eliasbloodmoon wrote:
Spoiler: about a certain hobo. Probably being parinoid about spoilers...
Spoiler: 1-4, AJ
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
My secret? You'll need a magatama!
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Name: Motive lottery
Type of cough-up: Plot inconsistency
Location: Case 3-3
Description:
The motive given for Maggey killing Glen is that she wanted to steal the lottery ticket. To back this up the ticket was found in her pocket. However, both Mr Kudo and Mr Armstrong say (I think) that she fainted as soon as the victim collapsed. So how could she have stolen the ticket?!?
Hypotenuse Man wrote:
The way I envision it is this:
"Mask *jazz hands!* DeMasque."
Win. Just win! "Mask *jazz hands!* DeMasque."
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough Ups
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Name: JFA case 4
Type: Uncaught contradiction in testimony
Location: In courtroom
Explanation:
Type: Uncaught contradiction in testimony
Location: In courtroom
Explanation:
Spoiler:
Spoiler: Just in case
No, it was after. Will was on his way to the bathroom when he saw de leave the room and go across the hall to deliver the bear.
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