GK Contradictions (spoilers)

[FerdieLance]

Here's one that got me penalized:

Spoiler: Case 3

When asked how the Disappearing Badger trick was done, turning off the lights is the wrong answer and gets you penalized. The problem is... that's EXACTLY how tricks like this get done in the real world! The counterargument ("you wouldn't be able to see anything") ignores the real possibility that a gradual dimming of the lights in one or another segment of the corridor could produce a very convincing disappearance - especially if one section of the broken mirror had no backing on it, and was semitransparent.

In contrast, moving a giant mirror silently and effectively is likely to fail, and more inconsistent with the blueprints than a very small mirror chamber with a badger doll in a strategic location. Furthermore, unless the audience's attention were diverted when the mirror moved, they wouldn't see a gradually disappearing badger... they'd see a moving hallway! Isn't it kind of obvious when a mirror moves in front of you?

Here's a Wikipedia page on the light-based effect, which is used in theme parks: Pepper's Ghost.

What makes this extra groanworthy is that the case would have worked just as well using the Pepper's Ghost trick, which also frequently involves a hidden chamber behind the mirror.

[Bad Player]

Here's one that got me penalized:

Spoiler: Case 3

When asked how the Disappearing Badger trick was done, turning off the lights is the wrong answer and gets you penalized. The problem is... that's EXACTLY how tricks like this get done in the real world! The counterargument ("you wouldn't be able to see anything") ignores the real possibility that a gradual dimming of the lights in one or another segment of the corridor could produce a very convincing disappearance - especially if one section of the broken mirror had no backing on it, and was semitransparent.

In contrast, moving a giant mirror silently and effectively is likely to fail, and more inconsistent with the blueprints than a very small mirror chamber with a badger doll in a strategic location. Furthermore, unless the audience's attention were diverted when the mirror moved, they wouldn't see a gradually disappearing badger... they'd see a moving hallway! Isn't it kind of obvious when a mirror moves in front of you?

Here's a Wikipedia page on the light-based effect, which is used in theme parks: Pepper's Ghost.

What makes this extra groanworthy is that the case would have worked just as well using the Pepper's Ghost trick, which also frequently involves a hidden chamber behind the mirror.

Spoiler: case 3

But then Edgey would be able to see the kidnapper and badger doll, as he's be in the secret mirror room with it. Also, how would the 'kidnapper' get out to collect the money, and attack Edgey? Also, would this kind of trick cause the Badger to be backwards?

It may not be realistic that the moving wall would not be noticed, but it seems to me that Pepper's Ghost wouldn't really work in the context of the case. (Of course, I don't know much about it, so this is just from what I gathered from the Wikipedia page)

[Mr. Bear Jew]

This one has been bugging for a while.

Spoiler: Case 3

So, it took ten of Lang's officers to push down the door that had been jammed shut, yet they somehow overlooked the fact that there was a broken sword lying on the floor and that it was directly adjacent to the door they just busted down? I'm having a very difficult time believing that they thought the broken sword didn't warrant further inspection.

[Bad Player]

This one has been bugging for a while.

Spoiler: Case 3

So, it took ten of Lang's officers to push down the door that had been jammed shut, yet they somehow overlooked the fact that there was a broken sword lying on the floor and that it was directly adjacent to the door they just busted down? I'm having a very difficult time believing that they thought the broken sword didn't warrant further inspection.

The police are stupid.

Contradiction solved. (It may have been Interpol, but still...)

[GigaHand]

Spoiler: 1-5, AAI-3

If the chief used Ema's sketch to design the Blue Badger, why does the final version look identical but the original Proto Badger not as much?

[Franzise Deauxnim]

Not literally a contradiction, but...

Spoiler: Case 2

Franziska discounts Edgeworth's theory that Hicks fell to his death from the stairs in the cargo hold just because Lablanc fell and didn't die.

Uh.

Even if it was only a five- or six-foot drop from the top of the stairs to the top of the statue, I'm pretty sure it's very possible to die if you fall and land on your head like Hicks obviously did. Lablanc didn't land on his head.

[GigaHand]

If I recall correctly, the injury was to his upper back. Also, Lablanc not only survived but seemed completely unharmed. It was a short fall with the statue there, in any case.

[Bad Player]

Spoiler: 1-5, AAI-3

If the chief used Ema's sketch to design the Blue Badger, why does the final version look identical but the original Proto Badger not as much?

Spoiler:

Uhm... He didn't use Ema's sketch. It was a coincidence. And Ema's sketch was just the shape... which the Proto Badger does have.

[Franzise Deauxnim]

If I recall correctly, the injury was to his upper back. Also, Lablanc not only survived but seemed completely unharmed. It was a short fall with the statue there, in any case.

Head and back. And I don't see how the location of his injury would change with the height of the fall.
Lablanc laid there silently for at least a few minutes, so if he wasn't hurt, he at the very least had the wind knocked out of him pretty good. Not that that can really be used as a measuring stick for anyone else falling from that height anyway.

[GigaHand]

Spoiler: 1-5, AAI-3

If the chief used Ema's sketch to design the Blue Badger, why does the final version look identical but the original Proto Badger not as much?

Spoiler:

Uhm... He didn't use Ema's sketch. It was a coincidence. And Ema's sketch was just the shape... which the Proto Badger does have.

Spoiler:

What makes you think it's a coincidence? From my interpretation of the case, the chief detective used the sketch to design the badger. I think Edgeworth deduced that, so he must believe that his half of the sketch was in the chief's hands for any period of time. I'm sorry, but I'm going to need a quote proving your case or mine. And the Proto Badger's head shape is slightly, but still noticably different from the sketch. On the sketch, the prongs/antennae/whatever on the side are bent, but on the Proto Badger they're straight. Plus, poofy cheeks.

And I don't see how the location of his injury would change with the height of the fall.

I meant the fall wasn't high enough to be fatal. Edgey seemed to have gotten a wrong first impression. At least, that what it seems like to me.

[Bad Player]

Spoiler: 1-5

Ema: Just then there was another

flash of lightning, and that's

when I saw... the Blue Badger!

Phoenix: Are you sure about this?

Ema: Of course! See?

I even drew a picture of him

here!

Edgeworth: But...

Edgeworth: the Head Detective of Criminal

Affairs thought up this

hideous beast.

Edgeworth: And that was just this year...

Edgeworth: The Blue Badger didn't exist

two years ago.

This is all quite verifiable.



There's another snippet of conversation like this. If the Chief Detective had based the BB on Ema's sketch, then the whole thing wouldn't have had everyone all crazy about it. That evidence list may have been in the Chief Detective's hands at some point, but if it was, it would've been during Darke's trial, since after that it would be in Edgey's hands. Which means that there would a 2 year gap between seeing Ema's sketch and using it to make the BB, which doesn't really make sense.

[GigaHand]

Ah. Thank you. Now it makes sense.

[Franzise Deauxnim]

I meant the fall wasn't high enough to be fatal.

Why?

[GigaHand]

I meant the fall wasn't high enough to be fatal.

Why?

...Ok, what? Are you asking why a fall wasn't high enough to be fatal? I would think that's self-explanatory.

[Mr. Bear Jew]

I meant the fall wasn't high enough to be fatal.

Why?

...Ok, what? Are you asking why a fall wasn't high enough to be fatal? I would think that's self-explanatory.

The cargo hold's roof looked like it was at least 30 feet tall. That would make Hicks' fall from the top of the stairwell was about 25 feet, give or take a few. Anyone landing on their back from that height would be killed instantly, especially if they fell face first like Hicks did.

[GigaHand]

The cargo hold's roof looked like it was at least 30 feet tall. That would make Hicks' fall from the top of the stairwell was about 25 feet, give or take a few. Anyone landing on their back from that height would be killed instantly, especially if they fell face first like Hicks did.

I was talking about Lablanc's fall. Also it wasn't face first in any case.

[Franzise Deauxnim]

I meant the fall wasn't high enough to be fatal.

Why?

...Ok, what? Are you asking why a fall wasn't high enough to be fatal? I would think that's self-explanatory.

No, it's not. People can drown in the kitchen sink. It's very unlikely, but it's possible. You can't just dismiss the possibility that someone could die from falling a short height solely because you witnessed one other person fall from the same height and live.

[Mask*DeMasque]

I just thought of something, but I'm probably wrong.

Spoiler: Case 5

Why was Coachen in the dressing room? Was he expecting Alba to show up to kill him?

Spoiler: Also Case 5

The "Yatagarasu" in Lotta's picture was the fake Primidux statue with Shih-Na's coat on it, right? But then, Gumshoe found Shih-Na's coat in the room next to Coachen's office. How did it get back there?

[Flodda]

After i played through the game there were a lot of things still unclear for me...

All following questions are SPOILERS for the WHOLE GAME, so don't read until your finished it!!!

btw. english isn't my native language so maybe the grammar is sometimes a bit off

Spoiler:

1.) Maybe it's no contradiction, but why does Portsman give his little speech in the beginning?
Quote: To make sure the defendant is found guilty. What other choice do I have? (...) Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough but a guilty verdict is all that matters to me!

Who does he refer to with "the defendant"? And btw, why the heck does he tell this someone he shoots 5 seconds later? Ok, thats a common theme in movies,games,etc. ^^

I was hoping this would be clear in the end of the game, but no explanation whatsoever...


2.) in the opening case there are 3 pieces of evidence, a video tape, a necklace and a gun, ok the tape is clear, but why the gun and the necklace? The woman Manny Coachen killed 10 years ago wasn't shot but stabbed, and whats the meaning of the necklace?


3.) In Case 2 they are smuggeling something in the statue from Zhang Feng to America/Japan/whatever, presumably fake money or ink...
But why? The money is circulation in Zhang Feng (or whatever it's called), so why smuggle it out of the country? I don't get it


4.) Portsman knew that the black card is in the KG8-File. How did he know that? Faraday hid it 10 years ago.... ok, maybe he told whatshername... "Callisto Yew" about it and she told Portsman, but I think it's strange and why did he try to steal it at that exact day and not way earlier? Presumably it was in there for 10 years...


5.) Why did Faraday hide the card in the first place instead of using it directly against the smugglers? Was it because the video was stolen? Btw. who did steal it? Callisto?


6.) Why did Faraday steal the key/knife from the embassy? And why did he write in his notes in Case 4 something like "and if all else fails, I still have the "Yatagarasu Key." How would it have aided him in court?


7.) In Case 1, The name Gumshoe is updside down, why is that and why doesn't Edgeworth find it very strange?

8.) Again in Case 1, why did Portman not know the correct order for Edgeworth's files but Faraday did? When Faraday rummaged through the files again, wouldn't he have put them in the same order they were before?

And finally

9.) in Case 3 why did Edgeworth hear the breaking of the mirror but NOT the gunshot itself? They said something like "it blended in with the background noise" but I find it hard to believe that a gunshot would blend in but a shattering mirror doesn't, I dunno...

I think there are quite a few plotholes, the previous games of this series were imo way more conclusive, but they aren't as interwoven as this one and still it's a great game and a fantastic series!

Or did the translators just screw it all up and in the original version everything's explained? ^^

[Flodda]

I just thought of something, but I'm probably wrong.

Spoiler: Case 5

Why was Coachen in the dressing room? Was he expecting Alba to show up to kill him?

Spoiler: Also Case 5

The "Yatagarasu" in Lotta's picture was the fake Primidux statue with Shih-Na's coat on it, right? But then, Gumshoe found Shih-Na's coat in the room next to Coachen's office. How did it get back there?

Spoiler: Case 5

I think Alba led Coachen there, maybe he told him he wanted to talk about something in private and since the Dressing room was deserted it would have been a good place

Spoiler: Also Case 5

Did they say it had Shih-Naas coat on it? I thought it was just the statue, but because of the rapid movement it was a bit blurred on the picture? Why would they have put her coat on it? Because of the fire they didn't expect anyone would look or take a picture for that matter...

[Bad Player]

Spoiler: Flodda's contradictions; spoilers for all cases

1. Eh, no real reason, really. Just to make it more dramatic :P
2. The gun and the necklace are evidence from AAI's case 3 (which takes place earlier chronologically)
3. In case 2 they never say what they are smuggling in the statue, or that there is something in the statue they are smuggling. Just that they were stealing the statue and stuff. Also, they are smuggling counterfeit money into Zheng Fa. (Meaning they can just get insta-rich in Zheng Fa)
4. He didn't know that. After all, he wasn't able to find it. He probably knew it was in Edgey's office, but not exactly where. How did he know that? Quercus probably ordered him to steal the card and video, and told him the card was in Edgey's office.
5. Since Manny had the card in the video, I don't think anyone stole it; I believe it was on his person when they arrested him. And they held onto the card and video tape b/c it was important evidence, but they didn't know exactly who the leaders of the smuggling ring was. (I think...)
6. We don't know why; at one point, Yew says, "But he stole something he wasn't supposed to," so I think he didn't plan it with Yew and Badd, although I'm not so sure why he took it. It's possible that he just happened to have it unlock the safe, but then I'd think he'd steal the contents of the safe instead of the key. The Yatagarasu Key would prove Mack Rell is not the Yatagarasu; Faraday would ask Mack, "Do you know what this is?" and he would say "No" and Faraday would say, "This is what the Yatagarasu sent to the police; if you were the Yatagarasu, you would recognize it!"
7. Well, depending on how the victim was lying/crouching/sitting/standing when he wrote it, it wouldn't be strange.
8. Faraday (actually, I think you mean Badd; he was the thief Edgey encountered at the beginning) didn't put the books back, he just ripped them all off the shelf. And Portsman put them back b/c he didn't realize that the 0 series goes at the end, instead of the beginning.
9. ...Iunno.

[GigaHand]

Spoiler: AAI-5

The petal on the handle of the murder weapon fell off during the murder or after the murder, after which Shih-na inadvertently smuggled it into Babahl. The photo hiding it in the bouquet is taken after that, indicating that Alba was returning it to Allebahst. How did the blade find its way into Babahl, with the tight security and small time frame (Kay caught her taking the body into Babahl)?

[Hikka]

Spoiler: Case 5 -- Maybe reading too much into it???

...About the whole "Shih-na and the body floating up to get to Babahl's side of the reservoir"...... How exactly would that work? Shih-na would probably be able to float, but the body's pretty much dead weight? Also thinking that the puchcart would NOT help things any... =/

...Sorry if that doesn't make sense. *not so good at explaining stuff...*

[Bad Player]

Wooden cart?

[Percei]

Not a huge thing but...

Spoiler: AAI-3

When you're doing the simulation of the Haunted House, Edgeworth uses evidence pieces and seems to claim them to be tangible, the most prominent is the mirror-wall shards. If it's just a simulation, how in God's name does he have posession of the mirror wall shards. It doesn't make any sense.

[mdquak]

Spoiler: Case 1

The bloody hand prints on the book-shelf look like two left-handed prints. The thumb that would be from Mr. Faith's right hand is pointing the wrong way.

[Mask*DeMasque]

Spoiler: Case 1

The bloody hand prints on the book-shelf look like two left-handed prints. The thumb that would be from Mr. Faith's right hand is pointing the wrong way.

Wow, it looks like you're right! That's a pretty big contradiction, though; they messed up very badly.

[TheSteelSamurai]

Not a huge thing but...

Spoiler: AAI-3

When you're doing the simulation of the Haunted House, Edgeworth uses evidence pieces and seems to claim them to be tangible, the most prominent is the mirror-wall shards. If it's just a simulation, how in God's name does he have posession of the mirror wall shards. It doesn't make any sense.

That's the case with a lot of the evidence in the Ace Attorney series. It's not always stuff that you physically have on your person. It is often just information-stuff you know about. And weren't the mirror shards actually acquired from inside the badger costume head?

[TheSteelSamurai]

Spoiler: Case 5 -- Maybe reading too much into it???

...About the whole "Shih-na and the body floating up to get to Babahl's side of the reservoir"...... How exactly would that work? Shih-na would probably be able to float, but the body's pretty much dead weight? Also thinking that the puchcart would NOT help things any... =/

...Sorry if that doesn't make sense. *not so good at explaining stuff...*

The cart is wooden. And don't bodies often float, thus why people use stuff to make them sink so they won't be easily found?O_o

[TheSteelSamurai]

After i played through the game there were a lot of things still unclear for me...

All following questions are SPOILERS for the WHOLE GAME, so don't read until your finished it!!!

btw. english isn't my native language so maybe the grammar is sometimes a bit off

Spoiler:

2.) in the opening case there are 3 pieces of evidence, a video tape, a necklace and a gun, ok the tape is clear, but why the gun and the necklace? The woman Manny Coachen killed 10 years ago wasn't shot but stabbed, and whats the meaning of the necklace?


3.) In Case 2 they are smuggeling something in the statue from Zhang Feng to America/Japan/whatever, presumably fake money or ink...
But why? The money is circulation in Zhang Feng (or whatever it's called), so why smuggle it out of the country? I don't get it


9.) in Case 3 why did Edgeworth hear the breaking of the mirror but NOT the gunshot itself? They said something like "it blended in with the background noise" but I find it hard to believe that a gunshot would blend in but a shattering mirror doesn't, I dunno...

2. Well, we know Portsman got his orders from the smuggling ring's leader. All those peices of evidence are kind of connected with the ring. The necklace belonged to the man who was falsely-convicted of having ties to the ring, and it had his real name on the back. The gun was used by the son of one of the bigger people in the ring to commit murder. And the video...well that is addressed in the game.

3. From what we are told, it seems that the goal of the ring was to acquire the real statue after selling it to someone. Thus, they get the money and the statue, which they can then sell to someone else.

9. Silencer?O_O

[valentinite]

Spoiler: Mention of an item you get early in case 2

The in-flight schedule is wrong. Yes, destination vs arrival time zone is the important part, but the times they give for a bunch of things don't line up.

[Hikka]

Spoiler: Case 5 -- Maybe reading too much into it???

...About the whole "Shih-na and the body floating up to get to Babahl's side of the reservoir"...... How exactly would that work? Shih-na would probably be able to float, but the body's pretty much dead weight? Also thinking that the puchcart would NOT help things any... =/

...Sorry if that doesn't make sense. *not so good at explaining stuff...*

The cart is wooden. And don't bodies often float, thus why people use stuff to make them sink so they won't be easily found?O_o

...Point taken. For some reason just thought they didn't. ._.u *SHOT.*

[Mr. Bear Jew]

Spoiler: Case 5 -- Maybe reading too much into it???

...About the whole "Shih-na and the body floating up to get to Babahl's side of the reservoir"...... How exactly would that work? Shih-na would probably be able to float, but the body's pretty much dead weight? Also thinking that the puchcart would NOT help things any... =/

...Sorry if that doesn't make sense. *not so good at explaining stuff...*

Bodies can float whether they're living or non-living.

[Franzise Deauxnim]

Spoiler: AAI-5

The petal on the handle of the murder weapon fell off during the murder or after the murder, after which Shih-na inadvertently smuggled it into Babahl. The photo hiding it in the bouquet is taken after that, indicating that Alba was returning it to Allebahst. How did the blade find its way into Babahl, with the tight security and small time frame (Kay caught her taking the body into Babahl)?

Spoiler:

Alba didn't take the blade, he just detached the handle and left the blade in Manny's body. Then Calisto put a Babahlese handle on it to make it look like someone killed him in Babahl.

[CrimsonV]

This might have been already reported, I haven't looked at certain non-defined spoiler posts not to ruin the last case -which I almost finished-.

AAI case 3 :

Spoiler:

The first time Kay gets to show off her Little Thief device, we only know that a man shot another. So why does it know that there was no blood on the scene? Oldbag never mentioned the costume, so am I to believe that her device has godlike powers? Or am I missing something? I really hope I am, because this thing has been bugging me a lot. (Moreover- you'd think anyone would have wondered how the bullet entered from the lower abdomen and exited from the shoulder if the men were in that position)

I hope it was clear enough.

[valentinite]

This might have been already reported, I haven't looked at certain non-defined spoiler posts not to ruin the last case -which I almost finished-.

AAI case 3 :

Spoiler:

The first time Kay gets to show off her Little Thief device, we only know that a man shot another. So why does it know that there was no blood on the scene? Oldbag never mentioned the costume, so am I to believe that her device has godlike powers? Or am I missing something? I really hope I am, because this thing has been bugging me a lot. (Moreover- you'd think anyone would have wondered how the bullet entered from the lower abdomen and exited from the shoulder if the men were in that position)

I hope it was clear enough.

Spoiler: Also for case 3, duh!

I'm assuming they mean "there's no real blood on the present-time ground". I was kind of surprised they didn't give Ema a chance to Luminol it, though.

[Percei]

I also agree with CrimsonV

Spoiler: AAI-3

One of the most blatantly obvious is like the decorations and other things set up in the room, but also the fact that Little Theif KNOWS the wall was shattered before hand. Plus, going back to the original contradiction, Edgeworth is able to PICK UP and COMPARE the thickness of the wall shards that are most definantly virtual. That's what I was getting that. He also says "We have these shards (it then shows wall shards) with us that are thicker"

[Jeshi]

Am I the only one that spotted this? I'm surprised nobody else has brought this up.

Spoiler: Case 2

The timezones are really messed up.
The flight Edgeworth was on goes from Europe to California, With a stop in Zheng Fa for cargo purposes
Now ignoring the fact that this is a really weird route to take, Since that was probably from Europe to Japan with a stop in Zheng Fa in which it would make more sense. The contradiction is in the timezones.

The movie times that Leblanc is so upset about were supposed to be in the timezone they were in when they left. But Leblanc set his watch to the Destination time. When this is revealed, Edgeworth says "If thats the case then Leblanc set his watch to BORGINIAN TIME which is a 9 hour time difference from Europe. Which means his analog watch that doesn't specify AM and PM would appear to be going 3 hours fast." WAIT WHAT?! Aren't we going to CALIFORNIA? How is Borgian time the destination time? Why is Leblanc bringing his cargo to California when he says he's going "home". Isn't Borginia a "Small European country". Why is he leaving Europe? Shoudn't he be on a different flight entirely? Plus, The time difference between Europe and Borginia is exactly the same as between France and California in 1-1. Are we not in California? Is the "My country" that Edgeworth keeps referring to actually Borginia? That doesn't make much sense, since Borginia is supposed to be foreign.

[Bad Player]

Spoiler: case 2

"My country" is America. LeBlanc set his watch to American time, while the plane was on Borginian time, causing LeBlanc's analog clock to read 3 hours fast. Borginia is in the same time zone as France. (At least, I hope I'm remembering correctly...)

It is a little weird that he's flying to California through Asia instead of the Atlantic, but maybe it was the only flight that used his model of plane, and Edgey really wanted to fly on it? xD

[Jeshi]

Spoiler: case 2

"My country" is America. LeBlanc set his watch to American time, while the plane was on Borginian time, causing LeBlanc's analog clock to read 3 hours fast. Borginia is in the same time zone as France. (At least, I hope I'm remembering correctly...)

It is a little weird that he's flying to California through Asia instead of the Atlantic, but maybe it was the only flight that used his model of plane, and Edgey really wanted to fly on it? xD

Spoiler: case 2

But in the case they say that LeBlanc's watch is set to Borginian time! And that he set his watch to the destination time!