Franziska in AAI *Full game spoilers*

Cohdopia Over All · Post by **Cohdopia Over All** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:00 pm

oddy wrote:http://i39.tinypic.com/2hn9q55.jpg

I was kinda hoping that she'd look more vertically challenged in that pic. Oh well. :franny:

PS: I think Franny wouldn't have a strong accent at all; she probably has perfectly mastered several different languages. Hmmm..... no wonder why she became connected with Interpol......

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:38 pm

Midnight Jasper wrote:^^ I love it; she looks so cool! Although I still prefer her current look since Franziska is always a really 'sharp' person to me and all of her diamonds and angular poofy sleeves reflect that.

Sometimes I imagine Franziska with a perfectly perfect accentless accent, whereas other times I think of her with a really heavy German accent. I imagine if she did have a German accent they would write it phonetically, though, so I'm guessing it's the first one.

Yeah, Franziska talks normally, albeit a bit overly formal (except for the fool outbursts), while another German character, Klavier, speaks with a few German phrases sprinkled in, so I think the implication is that Franziska speaks English like a native.

Firefury Amahira · Post by **Firefury Amahira** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:48 am

Well, with a guy like Manfred as a father, are we really surprised she speaks a bit more formally than your average joe on the street? And an accent, especially a heavy one could make her hard to understand, which is too imperfect for a von Karma; no doubt Manfred made sure his daughter's enunciation in any languages she learned was flawless!

moonfall · Post by **moonfall** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:53 am

I think she learned English at a young enough age to not have an accent.

Apparently the character designer has confirmed that the von Karmas are into horseback riding (see the character design note translation thread). I kinda feel bad for their horses.

OnyxAlchemyst · Post by **OnyxAlchemyst** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:22 pm

I just noticed a neat little continuity thing between AAI and JFA. In JFA, Franziska embarrasses Phoenix by pointing out a contradiction because of a lack of gunpowder burn. In AAI case 4, Miles embarrasses Franziska by pointing out a flaw in her logic by, you guessed it, a lack of gunpowder burn. Sounds like a lesson she didn't forget. :hobolaugh:

OniXera · Post by **OniXera** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:32 am

OnyxAlchemyst wrote:I just noticed a neat little continuity thing between AAI and JFA. In JFA, Franziska embarrasses Phoenix by pointing out a contradiction because of a lack of gunpowder burn. In AAI case 4, Miles embarrasses Franziska by pointing out a flaw in her logic by, you guessed it, a lack of gunpowder burn. Sounds like a lesson she didn't forget.

Her fear of guns might just be the reason though, causing her to blank out many gun-related thoughts.

J-Max Holmes · Post by **J-Max Holmes** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:23 pm

moonfall wrote:I think she learned English at a young enough age to not have an accent.

Apparently the character designer has confirmed that the von Karmas are into horseback riding (see the character design note translation thread). I kinda feel bad for their horses.

Huh, that would explain the whip (and the riding crop).

Jean Descole · Post by **Jean Descole** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:27 pm

OniXera wrote:
OnyxAlchemyst wrote:I just noticed a neat little continuity thing between AAI and JFA. In JFA, Franziska embarrasses Phoenix by pointing out a contradiction because of a lack of gunpowder burn. In AAI case 4, Miles embarrasses Franziska by pointing out a flaw in her logic by, you guessed it, a lack of gunpowder burn. Sounds like a lesson she didn't forget.

Her fear of guns might just be the reason though, causing her to blank out many gun-related thoughts.

Does she have a natural fear of guns? If she stated so, I'll have to replay that part. If she does have that fear, though, it would explain why the trauma of 2-4 is still fresh in her mind.

moonfall · Post by **moonfall** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:45 am

I never noticed any indication that she had fear of guns, although it's certainly understandable. I still don't know whether her fear in 2-4 was trauma from being shot, fear of hospitals, or fear of "Director" Hotti. All three are pretty scary.

OniXera · Post by **OniXera** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:59 am

I'm pretty sure that Edgeworth has hinted at Franziska being traumatised by 2-4. A lot of things happened during 2-4 and getting shot certainly didn't help her cause, specially since she was doing no wrong.

moonfall · Post by **moonfall** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:48 pm

I think this thread has basically replaced Franziska's fanclub thread on the JFA board.

Auraion · Post by **Auraion** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:45 am

This could be considered as an "AAI Franziska" Fanclub

Firefury Amahira · Post by **Firefury Amahira** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:34 am

OniXera wrote:I'm pretty sure that Edgeworth has hinted at Franziska being traumatised by 2-4. A lot of things happened during 2-4 and getting shot certainly didn't help her cause, specially since she was doing no wrong.

I forget if he specifically mentioned traumatized (geez, I just replayed that case the other week!), but it's no stretch of the imagination to assume circumstances surrounding 2-4 would be traumatizing to her. Her win record smashed; she was shot at (and then had to deal with "Director" Hotti;) and she gets confronted by Edgeworth after he's been missing for a year. That's a lot of world-turned-inside-out for an 18 year old woman to deal with- doubly so considering she's got to be psychologically damaged already from growing up under her father's care.

I wouldn't be surprised if she develops a gun related phobia though. Being shot at when she was only 13 in AAI-4, and being shot in 2-4 would no doubt be enough to link guns and fear for phonia funtimes!

moonfall · Post by **moonfall** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:25 pm

I don't remember the exact quote, but Edgeworth did say something about that case upsetting her. She's visibly bothered when it comes up, and she doesn't like to talk about it. Sounds like trauma to me.

Jean Descole · Post by **Jean Descole** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:55 am

I don't doubt Franziska experienced trauma from 2-4. I'm just surprised it's still that fresh and lingering to that extent, one whole year later. I thought she'd worked out all her stress on Matt Engarde (she was in charge of his incarceration) and gradually moved on, but apparently, that doesn't seem to be the case.

But if she does have a natural fear of guns to begin with, it would make more sense to me.

Whatever the reason for fresh trauma, I certainly wouldn't complain if it opens up a closely related case in some new game. But then, I'm a bit biased there.

Firefury Amahira · Post by **Firefury Amahira** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:30 am

Adrian in black wrote:I don't doubt Franziska experienced trauma from 2-4. I'm just surprised it's still that fresh and lingering to that extent, one whole year later.

Speaking from experience (not with a gun phobia, but rather a wildfire phobia), sometimes all it takes is a single, very traumatizing incident to trigger it, and it can take years to get past it even with professional help. (In my particular case, the trigger event was waking up one dark morning in December 1988 to a sea of orange flames outside the window; and the "getting over it" event was the Sayre fire almost exactly 20 years later.)

I can't see Franziska deigning to seek professional help though; it's like admitting to weaknesses and flaws, and I'm sure Manfred did plenty in driving home the idea that a von Karma is perfect and does not have any of these to admit to. (And to me, there is no doubt in my mind that she direly could benefit from the aid of a psychological professional because of her papa's influence.)

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:50 am

Hey, just wanted to pop in here and say Franziska von Karma is the best character and I will fight you with a knife if you don't like her, ok, thx, buh-bye.

Also, having bad memories of a time when you were shot seems to me to be a pretty rational reaction. I don't think it necessarily has to mean trauma if she has bad memories of that time.

Auraion · Post by **Auraion** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:23 pm

Icarus wrote:Also, having bad memories of a time when you were shot seems to me to be a pretty rational reaction. I don't think it necessarily has to mean trauma if she has bad memories of that time.

Also, being shot at a young age.

How would it be if she had a daughter?

zoe · Post by **zoe** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:31 am

Auraion wrote:
Icarus wrote:Also, having bad memories of a time when you were shot seems to me to be a pretty rational reaction. I don't think it necessarily has to mean trauma if she has bad memories of that time.

Also, being shot at a young age.

How would it be if she had a daughter?

Franny: Happy birthday my little girl^^ i bought a present for you!
Daughter(at 5): Thanks mama...A whip?! No mama i want a gun! G.U.N!! .\_____/.

moonfall · Post by **moonfall** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:06 am

Imagine if Franziska and Miles had kids who wanted to play with toy guns...

Auraion · Post by **Auraion** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:09 am

moonfall wrote:Imagine if Franziska and Miles had kids who wanted to play with toy guns...

Franziska would hide in a corner and cry.

OniXera · Post by **OniXera** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:23 am

Auraion wrote:
moonfall wrote:Imagine if Franziska and Miles had kids who wanted to play with toy guns...

Franziska would hide in a corner and cry.

However, first you have imagine Miles and Franziska having sex. Or even getting married...

...Nope, nothings appearing in my head. They're too much like siblings.

moonfall · Post by **moonfall** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:58 am

I brought Miles up because I had a fanfic idea where he was the one (not Franziska) who was upset with his kids playing with toy guns. Then he had to explain why he doesn't like it (because Grandpa Manfred shot Grandpa Gregory, then a bad guy shot Mama).

Auraion · Post by **Auraion** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:11 am

OniXera wrote:However, first you have imagine Miles and Franziska having sex. Or even getting married...

...Nope, nothings appearing in my head. They're too much like siblings.

the father doesn't need to be edgeworth.
he could be any "X" new character.

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:26 am

OniXera wrote:However, first you have imagine Miles and Franziska having sex.

Fortunately, I devote MASSIVE amounts of mental energy to imagining fictional characters doing it.

zoe · Post by **zoe** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:18 pm

Icarus wrote:
OniXera wrote:However, first you have imagine Miles and Franziska having sex.

Fortunately, I devote MASSIVE amounts of mental energy to imagining fictional characters doing it.

I rather imagine some in-game characters. For example, Phoenix. >V< Yet i can't write good fanfic:<

Auraion · Post by **Auraion** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:45 pm

I can see edgeworth and franziska having sex, but never getting married.

Indochine Ramera · Post by **Indochine Ramera** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:51 am

Why never getting married? What's wrong with it.

I can totally see Fran and Edgeworth having sex, you know, and I can see them married. Now about the children, if she does marry Miles Edgeworth, that would mean she isn't searching for perfection anymore, that she realized what her father has done. So I don't think "what my papa has done" would be talk at home.

Now about her fear of gun, I'm sure she has one, in case 5 of AAI she mentionned it when you present her a piece of evidence. Whoever has been shot is bit traumatized, wouldn't you think?

Now that I look at what I've written, how the hell did we arrive at "Fran and Miles having sex" from "Franziska in AAI"?????

Auraion · Post by **Auraion** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:27 am

Indochine Ramera wrote:how the hell did we arrive at "Fran and Miles having sex" from "Franziska in AAI"?????

I don't know, I was talking about her having a daughter.

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:31 am

Indochine Ramera wrote:Now about her fear of gun, I'm sure she has one, in case 5 of AAI she mentionned it when you present her a piece of evidence. Whoever has been shot is bit traumatized, wouldn't you think?

Eh, she also freaks out over the knives, and she doesn't have any specific knife-trauma in her past. Freaking out over dangerous things while turning a blind eye to how she uses her whip just seems to be a humorous character trait of hers.

In any case, it's pretty mild trauma, since she's obviously still able to function while investigating a crime scene and whatnot, nothing crippling.

Now that I look at what I've written, how the hell did we arrive at "Fran and Miles having sex" from "Franziska in AAI"?????

I blame OniXera for being a filthy deviant.

Plus, they totally wouldn't, Franziska wouldn't do her little brother, she's not a monster.

OniXera · Post by **OniXera** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:09 am

Icarus wrote:
Eh, she also freaks out over the knives, and she doesn't have any specific knife-trauma in her past. Freaking out over dangerous things while turning a blind eye to how she uses her whip just seems to be a humorous character trait of hers.

In any case, it's pretty mild trauma, since she's obviously still able to function while investigating a crime scene and whatnot, nothing crippling.

Yes, but how many cases involving guns has she dealt with...that we've seen? 2-2...2-4

Spoiler: AAI cases

And in 3/4 of those cases the gun was drawn and pretty much pointing in her direction, or her roundabout direction. You'd think she would be traumatised at least a little bit. :franny:

Plus the hinting at by Edgeworth makes it seem so. Maybe she has some kind of 'dangerousness hierarchy', with guns being at the top?

I blame OniXera for being a filthy deviant.

Plus, they totally wouldn't, Franziska wouldn't do her little brother, she's not a monster.

Yeah, sorry about that. xP It was just extremely hard to imagine. :udgy:

moonfall · Post by **moonfall** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:23 am

At least the whip isn't likely to kill anyone...

Did anyone try presenting the prosecutor's badge to her? It pisses her off, especially in case 4.

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:26 am

moonfall wrote:At least the whip isn't likely to kill anyone...

Actually, the whip is the second deadliest weapon in the world, after the spear.

Firefury Amahira · Post by **Firefury Amahira** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:49 am

Icarus wrote:
moonfall wrote:At least the whip isn't likely to kill anyone...

Actually, the whip is the second deadliest weapon in the world, after the spear.

Funny enough, in trying to find a good whip to purchase for when I finally get around to cosplaying Franziska, I've come to the conclusion that her whip is actually gimped and not nearly as deadly as a whip should be.

From the artwork, near as I can figure she's using some variety of fully-plaited bullwhip, much like this one:

Spoiler: Image

From my (admittedly casual) research, the part of a whip that actually does the most damage, including any cut-like injuries is a piece called the fall, in the above pic, the whitish-bluish thin piece in between the braided leather and the red tassel part (the cracker, the bit that really makes the whip-crack sound.) That's the part that moves the fastest when the whip is cracked, and thus has the most kinetic energy available to transfer into a very small area of target on impact; being hit with the whip itself might bruise or leave a welt, but it's the fall that will break skin and do the most damage.

Now, take another look at the end of Franziska's whip. Her whip has no fall and no cracker, however it looks like the end of the lash has the same sort of wide spot at the end where the fall would be attached. My conclusion: she deliberately removed the part that would make the whip into a properly deadly weapon for some reason. :whip:

(The real reason, I'm sure, is more likely that the artists didn't research whips and just drew what they thought looked good! :franny:

)

... Also, good whips are expensive! Holy crap! :beef:

Jean Descole · Post by **Jean Descole** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:39 pm

Firefury Amahira wrote:Funny enough, in trying to find a good whip to purchase for when I finally get around to cosplaying Franziska, I've come to the conclusion that her whip is actually gimped and not nearly as deadly as a whip should be.

From the artwork, near as I can figure she's using some variety of fully-plaited bullwhip, much like this one:
Spoiler: Image
From my (admittedly casual) research, the part of a whip that actually does the most damage, including any cut-like injuries is a piece called the fall, in the above pic, the whitish-bluish thin piece in between the braided leather and the red tassel part (the cracker, the bit that really makes the whip-crack sound.) That's the part that moves the fastest when the whip is cracked, and thus has the most kinetic energy available to transfer into a very small area of target on impact; being hit with the whip itself might bruise or leave a welt, but it's the fall that will break skin and do the most damage.

Now, take another look at the end of Franziska's whip. Her whip has no fall and no cracker, however it looks like the end of the lash has the same sort of wide spot at the end where the fall would be attached. My conclusion: she deliberately removed the part that would make the whip into a properly deadly weapon for some reason.

(The real reason, I'm sure, is more likely that the artists didn't research whips and just drew what they thought looked good! )

... Also, good whips are expensive! Holy crap!

Very interesting! That part does seem to be missing.

Oddly enough, some of her victims have claimed that particular weapon has broken skin. Maybe it's a magical whip with invisible fall and cracker? lol

OniXera · Post by **OniXera** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:52 pm

Adrian in black wrote:
Very interesting! That part does seem to be missing.

Oddly enough, some of her victims have claimed that particular weapon has broken skin. Maybe it's a magical whip with invisible fall and cracker? lol

Or, maybe it's because she has perfect strength, knowing how much she needs to swing to deliver a blow that hurts, but doesn't leave a mark? She is a von Karma after all!

But, anyway, I suspect that part doesn't appear due to the lack of detail on the GBA sprites, then it just was never included in future artwork because it'd be too hard to work into the character...or they just forgot...or didn't care for accuracy. I mean, every gun in AA is an old fashioned revolver.

moonfall · Post by **moonfall** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:53 pm

A friend who rides horses told me that to get leather into proper shape, you should soak it overnight. She does this with saddles, and we were messing with my whip (I cosplay Franziska) at a con, and it didn't crack properly, so she said to soak it. Apparently it will also hurt more?

A thread on the gameFAQs Ace Attorney boards claims that Franziska has been "dumbed down" in AAI, or that she never had any sense to begin with. Funny, "dumbed down" is how I feel about the gameFAQs message boards.

Firefury Amahira · Post by **Firefury Amahira** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:29 pm

OniXera wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
Very interesting! That part does seem to be missing.

Oddly enough, some of her victims have claimed that particular weapon has broken skin. Maybe it's a magical whip with invisible fall and cracker? lol

Or, maybe it's because she has perfect strength, knowing how much she needs to swing to deliver a blow that hurts, but doesn't leave a mark? She is a von Karma after all!

But, anyway, I suspect that part doesn't appear due to the lack of detail on the GBA sprites, then it just was never included in future artwork because it'd be too hard to work into the character...or they just forgot...or didn't care for accuracy. I mean, every gun in AA is an old fashioned revolver.

But it's so much more fun to try and come up with a logical explanation to explain away technical limitations! XD

Given how much damage Franziska can do with that thing without a fall or cracker attached, I'm rather scared to imagine what would happen if she DID have a complete whip. With her temper, that thing would probably accidentally kill somebody! (Which could be the very reason she keeps the fall off the thing; because a von Karma must be perfect and accidentally doing more damage than needed is not perfect! ;P )

Midnight Jasper · Post by **Midnight Jasper** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:40 pm

Waaah discussion is hard to keep track of.

I never thought of Franziska's whip as a real whip - just the way she wielded it would've really hurt... for some reason, it always looked like a retarded skipping rope to me XD
I have no doubts of her horse-riding crop being real, though. I guess in my own little head-canon I thought that Franziska would've wanted to ditch the riding crop for something new after 1-4 (or maybe it just broke or something) but it wasn't legal for her to buy an actual whip so she fashioned her own one. Total speculation, of course, but I like this idea :3

Which could be the very reason she keeps the fall off the thing; because a von Karma must be perfect and accidentally doing more damage than needed is not perfect!

I like this, too. Maybe when she was smaller she accidentally whipped Edgeworth to fainting point and until then has controlled herself better? Her temperament's definitely gotten a lot better between JFA and AAI, although she was most whip-happy in JFA as compared to AAI's past case. I guess in AAI-4 she was mostly respective of people and only really whipped Edgeworth and Gumshoe (who she didn't even treat that badly), whereas in JFA she was harsher to either people she really hated (Phoenix who she whipped until he fainted), didn't care about (Lotta/sometimes Ini) or just whipped for the hell of it (Gumshoe).

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:06 pm

Midnight Jasper wrote:I have no doubts of her horse-riding crop being real, though. I guess in my own little head-canon I thought that Franziska would've wanted to ditch the riding crop for something new after 1-4 (or maybe it just broke or something)

Obviously, she went to her very first trial, and couldn't reach the defense attorney with her crop so she was all, "This shit is fucking bogus," and got herself a MOTHERFUCKING WHIP. :ka-whip:

moonfall wrote:A thread on the gameFAQs Ace Attorney boards claims that Franziska has been "dumbed down" in AAI

There's a bit of truth to this. In JFA, she was your evil opposite, so she had to be smart, otherwise the game wouldn't be any fun. In AAI, she was working alongside you, and if she was figuring stuff out before you, it wouldn't be any fun.

She still had her moments, like at the end of Case 5,

Spoiler: The end of Case 5, duh