I totally agree with everything here.

Since Edgeworth seems kind of socially... awkward at times, I don't see why he wouldn't have a relationship with Phoenix. He doesn't seem to be the type to want to go out and date people or anything like that, so he'd probably go for someone who he knows and cares for already.

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You should read some Phoenix x Miles doujin. This is EXACTLY the stuff these two get up to in their relationships in them. Trust me. Social stigma DOESN'T stop someone having a relationship. It stops them being PUBLIC. Alot of gay relationships work on this basis. Of corse Miles wouldn't take Phoenix out to a classy restaurant and have a candle lit dinner. He'd do that in the comfort of his home. He'd hang out as a 'friend'. Doesn't stop him from loving him at all


I approve of Miles being Bi, but sadly, I wouln't ship it cause well.... who WITH? Not Franziska- she's like a sister to him (Besides, I like Fran x Adrian ^^ I donno why). Maya is the least creepy one to me, but I still don't like it. *sigh* Maybe I'll one day see a match for Miles I like that will let me bi-ship him...

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Lana, perhaps? Bratworth-->Lana has some potential for some good dark!fic. I also read some good Mia/Bratworth hatesex fics, and on the subject of bi!Edgeworth, a really cute Gumshoe/Maggey/Edgeworth fic.

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I love how serious this whole conversation is. xD

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Lana and Bratworth does have good potential in the bi category. And you know I love some good Mia/Bratworth hate sex. I need to write more of that, actually.

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.................

Yes.

....

Yes, you do.

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Mia / Bratworth... Actually... that's not bad. Except Diego is there watching wanting to play with his kitten too T.T I suppose then there's potential for OT3... Nope... can't deny that... Miles is hot, Diego is smoking hot, and Mia... Well XD

I'd tap Lana with Jake or Gant, but Miles? I donno... It doesn't feel right to me. They're both so dead serious.

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Did you actually read my Bratworth/Mia fics? I'm just surprised if you did because I don't think they got much attention on the kink meme.



I do like them as an OT3, but I haven't written them as such. My two fics were set after Diego was out of the picture, but she still thought about him. Bad, Mia. Thinking about other men when you're having sex with Bratworth.

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Somehow I can only see Lana getting into a relationship with Bratworth if Gant made her...

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Actually, I haven't. I don't check the kink meme often so I didn't realize you wrote Bratworth/Mia. I never considered the pairing before, and when you mentioned it, I was thinking, "Damn, that is kind of hot."

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I thought My Dear Mr. Lostman 2 by BalgusREC never got translated, but I saw some a few pages back. Could there possibly be a full translation? I have the raws.

OT:
In AAI case 2, when you check the room of the flight attendants, Edgy says that he smells perfume. Then he says that he is not interested in entering the room and finding out about what is inside: Your thaughts?

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Well, the initial guess would be that he doesn't dig chicks.

However, after AAI-4, it probably just means that he doesn't dig Calisto Yew.

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Good point

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Seconded.

Phoenix and Miles are just so...in sync.
I loveth them together~ <3

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Oh, goodness, why haven't I put my two cents here yet? 8| This must be amended.

Miles...is a complicated person to explain in terms of "is he gay" "is he bi" "is he not straight", etc. Because we never see him pursue any sort of relationship on a personal level with anyone. Anyone ever. Notice how it's always the others -- Phoenix, Ema, Larry, Gumshoe, all of the people who consider him a friend or an idol or some strange form of the two -- that tend to approach Miles, and never the other way around? Even in terms of friendship, Miles seems to do his fair share to hold up the relationship. In a casual sense, that is, because we see how he suddenly DROPS EVERYTHING AND FLIES HALFWAY ACROSS THE WORLD when Phoenix nearly gets his stupid ass killed. I think that Miles appreciates those he considers friends on a level that he feels it's his duty to do what he can to help them, but doesn't feel the need to take things to a more personal level. It's more likely that he doesn't know how to take things to a level beyond awkward, due to his...rather interesting upbringing post 2001.

I think Miles's apparent asexuality during the games is hardly basis for his sexual preferences (or lack thereof). After all, we see him during his work hours, and being the professional he is, I highly doubt he would let any kind of sexual urges override his duty to his profession, so until we see him outside of investigation/prosecution...

Now, if we choose to think he's homosexual, I think a relationship with Phoenix could be very likely. I could sit here ranting for hours about Phoenix's sexuality (he's a 1 on the Kinley scale, by the way) for hours, but since I don't want to waste your precious time, I'll NOT elaborate on that for now. :3 Taking all we see of Miles into account -- his awkwardness surrounding personal relationships, his mannerisms, his blatant distrust of almost everyone excluding Phoenix -- I can definitely see something forming between these two that's beyond platonic. (It'd take a LOT of urging on Phoenix's part, however.)

True, if he is homosexual, there's no ruling out the possibility that he's comfortable enough with it to feel like he could go to someone for gratification -- but in that case, I can't see it being anyone that he trusts; someone he knows, of course, since he most certainly has standards, but he would never jepardize his trust in someone for something as trivial as sex. I can't see any of these relationships Miles may have (or not have) evolving into anything because there's no trust, and trust is one of the building blocks of a successful relationship, especially when you're someone who's as anal about trust as Miles. So, personally, this scenario doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but since none of us are right and none of us are wrong, I thought I'd put the possibility out here anyway. Besides, questioning the degree of his sexual orientation is fun!

...all logical explanations aside, I really do ship him with Phoenix. If only because I like drawing blue and red in the same picture. Who I ship with Phoenix, though, is a whooole 'nother story.

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Honestly, and not to anger anyone, but I think Edgeworth and Nick are as gay as it gets. Not saying because of the cravat and the tea (even though that does contribute some) it's because when it comes to each other the get so EMOTIONAL! If you just take the time and look at how Edgeworth refers to Phoenix as "him" or how Phoenix snapped at Maya for even speaking Edgeworth's name after he left, you will realize that they have feelings for each other that runs deeper than any labelled "friendship".

My opinion on Miles is that he's not gay, but simply even more asexual than Sherlock Holmes. In my opinion, he doesn't bend "that way", but instead, "no way at all".

I'm still not sure which way he swings, but I'm beginning to get a stronger and stronger vibe from Edgeworth that he might have some level of Aspergers. The love of intangible ideals, the high intellect, the disregard for human sexuality and the implied fear of or lack oef underestandkng or caring about human emotion?

Quick list of fictional Aspies

Sherlock Holmes
Spock
Mark Zuckerberg- The Social Network
Greg House- implied repeatedly
Abed- Community
Edgeworth?

There is a special thread where this it is discussed wether Edgey is an authist or not, though I don't have the link right now, still I keep thinking that Edgey is asexual

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Objection to the topic title.

It makes it seem like the general fan topic and a yaoi fan topic simultaneously.

I'd rather be a fan of Miles without having to believe he's gay.

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When I started playing PW, my favorite character then was Miles Edgeworth. He faced an incident which changed his outlook on life drastically and he lost his father. He then became a demon prosecutor who followed his mentor's footsteps by forging evidence (screw 1-5). After gaining acquittal for the murder of Robert Hammond, he left the country and returned a year later a changed man, his new M.O. is finding the truth.

With that, I gained so much respect for him..then I stumbled onto this forum (lol). I saw all the shipping fanart and people's twisted 'logic' to why this character is gay and should be paired with xx. I lost all faith in humanity at that moment and put away AA for a year.

The AA series is never meant to be a romantic, wine sipping, pillow squeezing novel. It's all about PW and friends solving crimes and turning things around when all seems lost.

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Last edited by HumbleClutter on Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

But the fact that it has no romantic aspect means it's fun for many to create their own pairings and figure out characters' sexualities.

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It doesn't bother me when people have fun and pretend. It's when people argue to support their subjective fantasies, that's what pisses me off. I find most of the threads here are just about "What do you think of this pairing?" I want to find actual discussion about the games themselves without necromancing threads 2-3 years old. I came to this topic to speak my peace on Edgeworth's character and rant a little. I just get mad when I see pairing/sexuality thread's top the list.

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I ship PxE, but I don't think, he's gay..

.. Well.. I ship ExF too.

Actually... Hm...
My BF think, he's gay, because of his suit XD Haha. You must imagine so:

Me: Look at the hot dude in the purple-pinkish suit!
BF: ... I think..
Me: What do you think? Hmm?
BF: Oh nothing. Eheh. *scratches head*
Me: SAY IT, dammit! Or I'll throw you in the sea!
BF: URGH, NO! Ehm.. let me see it again! *look at Edgey in my pink NDS*
Me: And..?
BF: Ergo. He's gay.
Me: ...
BF: What? He looks like really gay! So what?
Me: ...
BF: Oh no.. You like him!
Me: .. Yay!
BF: ... Okay. He's probably gay.
Me: ...
BF: Or... loves he woman?
Me: .. Probably, yeah.
BF: *see my cellphone wall from a request (Klavier)* Uhn..
Me: What? We're not talking about my nice cellphone wall!
BF: Noo.. I.. uhm..
Me: *click at my photoalbum and show her a pic from ExF*
BF: Ah well.. He's gay!
Me: ... -.-'

Hello? It was Fran and not a dude! >.>

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I'm more bothered how it's more or less considered truth among places here when I don't see a need to pair them together.

Its the fact that the pairings defy truth, the 'twisted truths' people put forward to support it that aren't there at all. Yet to suggest otherwise is to instantly be wrong according to some.

Then again the appeal of taking two friends and randomly making them gay just might not jump out at me, I don't see the fun of slash fiction or most crack.

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When you point out the obvious to some folk's, they use the classic arguement 'just cause it doesn't support my belief, doesn't mean it supports yours'. I hate it when vague statements like that are used to justify anyone's position, doesn't have to relate to pairings, but other area's of debate as well.

I've stated here everything I feel about shipping. I don't intend to attack people for having reason to believe why a pairing can't happen. It's when they believe with all their being that their fantasies are true and harass those who don't support them. That's my problem.

*End Rant*

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Last edited by HumbleClutter on Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

My opinion here:

Edgeworth has a low sex drive that's easy for him to keep in check, whatever his preferences may be. Disappointment at not getting to see a woman in a bikini suggests that said sex drive includes women as valid targets... but on the other hand, women are the more frustrating gender for him to deal with socially, which is one of several factors keeping him away from such romances.

There's nothing disproving the idea that men are valid targets as well, however... and the subtext between Edgeworth and Phoenix is overpowering enough that I started imagining how some scenes might differ if that slash pairing were outright canon by the time Edgeworth gave Phoenix back his badge despite not having jumped into the fandom yet.

However, canon appears to me as though it implies that Phoenix favors women (though there is a sliver of room for debate as to how exclusively), so I don't consider the slash pairing to be canon. How fun the pairing is if you bend things, though, is a whole other matter, so I won't complain if it's done well. ;)

Edgeworth's tastes in decor, fashion, and cuisine being out of sync with most of society don't rightfully figure into the debate, especially given that these don't seem to be the only ways he doesn't perfectly fit in with the masses. That kind of thinking is what gets perfectly heterosexual boys beaten up by bullies just for liking the "wrong" color, perfectly heterosexual girls mocked as lesbians for years just for noting how pretty one of the teachers actually is *cough*, and MtF transgendered not getting taken seriously as such just because they don't like dresses any more than many typical modern women. -- Pteryx

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He's neither gay nor straight. He's FOREVER ALONE. *brick'd*

Anyway.. I wouldn't care if Edgey was gay or straight, he'd still be awesome either way. But whatever sexual orientation he may have, I know he'll be more of a settler than a reacher when it comes to a relationship. He doesn't really seem like the type of guy that would reach out and ask someone to go out with him but he doesn't seem the type to completely reject all advances made on him either. But right now, he's married to his work and if that's what makes him happy then so be it.

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Well, I guess I’m once more late to the party. No biggie.

… so I guess I’ll throw in my whole two cents about the whole “Is Edgey gay?” thing. Son of a submariner, it’s not obvious?OVERLY LONG POST AHOY!

First off, let me just say that when I started playing the games, I played them way out of order (2,4,3,1,5) so it took me a while to see what people saw in the whole Phoenix/Edgey pairing (I actually started off shipping P/M). Wasn’t until the first game that I started thinking “Okay, maybe there is something here…” And going back and looking over some of the things in the other games, I had to admit that yes, it doesn’t take much to see those two as gay for each other! (Edgeworth is particularly easy to see as gay for Phoenix.)
There’s just so much evidence for it:

• Case3-5: Not going into the “dark secret” and “partner” lines again, since so many others have. Nor will I overly dwell on the fact that he chartered a plane out of worry, which even for a guy like Edgeworth can’t be cheap. But nobody seems to have commented on how Edgeworth is putting his job on the line, the job that means the world to him… for Phoenix. By this point I think we’ve gone past mere gratitude and friendship.
• Case 1-3: Unnecessary feelings, anyone? Also, that Edgeworth actually tries to steer Phoenix torwards a Not Guilty verdict… while he’s still at least somewhat obsessed with the idea of a perfect trial. Doesn’t mean he’s smitten, but it does indict that he places quite a bit of trust in Phoenix, which is more than you can say about most other people.
• Case 1-4: Good lord, all of it sets off the gaydar! But if I had to pick…“You should have heard him after the Steel Samurai case. He kept saying ‘Wright, Wright, Wright!’” Words cannot express how much I’d give to learn the context behind this statement.
• Case 1-5: AM I THE ONLY WHO SEES THE SYMBOLISM IN THAT EVIDENCE LIST?! TWO HALVES, TWO HEARTS?!
• Case 2-4: Out of them all, I think this might just be the one with the most gay undertones (Yes, even more than 1-4). But I think what sums it all up is that after an entire case spent handing out speeches about how an attorney’s job is to find the truth, he’s willing (reluctant, but willing) to let a guilty man go free and an innocent woman be convicted in his place… for Phoenix. Yes it’s because of Maya, but he’s doing it for Phoenix. And for a guy like Edgeworth, I imagine it would take nothing sort of love to get him to drop his hard-won morals by the wayside.

And this is coming somewhat from personal experience… but if Edgeworth is asexual, it might not be naturally so. Rather it’s something that stems from repression, isolation, and naiveté when it comes to people. In other words, it is something he’s developed over the years, and more importantly can overcome.

Even if he IS asexual (which I personally doubt) that doesn’t mean he can’t have a thing for Phoenix. Asexual people ARE capable of falling in love. And let me just say that it can be remarkably easy to fall for someone who’s stood by your side when you were at your worst, same sex or not (again, drawing on personal experience).

Judge: I pronounce the defendant gay, and sentence him to a severe tongue lashing courtesy of Mr. Wright! (Oh if only. If only.)

As for Phoenix… while I don’t think he’s thought of Edgeworth in THAT way yet, nor do I think it’s something he’d be averse to. Phoenix, just as much if not more than Edgeworth, strikes me as someone who’d look for LOVE in a relationship. Love… and not boobs. In other words, a pansexual.

Really, it's all about what you read into it. This is just my personal interpretation (please don't hate me for it).

Also just want to point out something in game 5 which I don’t think anyone else has commented on yet. But in the last case, Edgeworth tells Kay that “It’s wonderful to have a partner you can trust”. And what did Edgey call Phoenix in 3-5?… I’m going to go ahead and answer my own question: PARTNER! Though given the context of that statement, it could just as easily be applied to Gumshoe. Either way, there’s much potential gay!

(Oh, and does anyone know of any other place I can find the “Waiting Forever” doujin mentioned a few pages back? The original link is no longer working, and I can’t download RARs anyway. If you know of another link or can email a copy to me, please let me know!)

I've taken the liberty to dissect your 'case' for Edgeworth being fruity.

There's no evidence, it's your own personal fantasy to think of Edgeworth as a pillow biter. And don't mislead the readers into thinking there 'is something' which there is none.




Keywords: Personal Experience.



There is nothing to read into. It's a game where you solve crimes and gain acquittal for your client. It's not a steamy romance novel. I don't care what people interpret from a vague, out of context statement, I only want FACTS.



Empty potential, unless I hear from the horse's mouth that Edgeworth is in fact, gay, straight or otherwise. People's arguments for it is baseless conjecture.

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I understand that you strongly dislike that pairing, but we KNOW it's not stated as canon. NO pairing is. As I said before, people enjoy coming up with their own interpretations, and yes, PW is not a romance novel, but it is about finding clues and uncovering truth. While knowing the truth that no pairing is canon, it can be amusing to some to 'uncover' truths about characters. Searching deeper into the story than what is said is enjoyable. No one ever said this was canon. We all know it's not. Please respect this.

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Last edited by Cravat of Doom on Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lovely contradiction you have there. You 'know' it's canon, then you say no pairing is canon. Did you mean to say something different? If so, please clarify.



And as I've said before, I don't care if people PRETEND and have fun.



If you and other folk's enjoy contemplating 'what ifs' I have no quarrel with you. But, asserting your opinion as fact like zara2148 has by stating there is 'evidence'. Then I will emerge from my silence and slap them down with cold, hard, facts.

Folk's need to read my posts more carefully, I'm not against you. I'm against those who state their opinion as LAW.

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Yes



Are you kidding me? Maya was vital in getting his freedom in case 1-4 because of her bravery. Of course he'd do it for Maya. What you think he can go "Yeah I know one of your best friends is going to die if I convict the right man but JUSTICE COMES FIRST!" If anything he'd do it so he wouldn't be held responsible for Maya's death.



Sure partner can mean 'life partner' but there are a whole load of other meanings to partner, colleague, friend, teammate you can't just jump to a conclusion like that it'd too flimsy especially when you admit the context is wrong

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...The more I've witnessed and participated in shipping arguments of all shapes and sizes, the more I've become convinced that we could all use a chill pill.



...Sorry!

Perseverance, I'm glad you showed up hahaha.

In your long statement there are points I disagree with but I won't be nitpicky. And you're correct stating that this is the P/E hangout where discussion can take place regarding the two characters. I came to this thread regarding my personal interpretation of Edgeworth's character, but things turned out different.

Now I will take my leave and let people enjoy this thread for what it's made for. Unless people have an issue with what I've stated and wish to discuss, you can PM me anytime. I am online often so I respond quickly to email.

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(Having fun with the shippers, Humble Clutter?)

Though Edgeworth may say some "gay" things, it only sounds like that if you have already concluded ahead of time that he's gay. In the game, he makes few if any remarks in regards to his sexuality.

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He is most certainly NOT gay!!!!!!

For these reasons
1. He is a disciple of a Von Karma
2. Manfred wears frilly clothes, and if that makes him gay...was franziska a mistake? No! Von Karmas must have perfection.
3. Tea is a european drink, he was raised by one from the age of ten
4. His clothes are red. RED!!!
5. Do those eyes look gay to you?!?!?!??!

Thats just despicable!!!!

and one more thing....
I'd hit that


Say it again, expect death

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Um, no. Edgeworth was NOT willing, or 'reluctantly willing,' to let a guilty man go free. He was just reluctant. Pay closer attention to the second court day, particularly to how pissed Edgeworth gets every time Matt is dangerously close to getting off the hook. It's true that Edgeworth is willing to push things to a certain point, but he does it for the sake of finding the truth, and not because he considers somebody to be his fwuffy wuv bunny.

But if you want to talk about Edgeworth doing things for Phoenix, the whole 'assembling the police force to find Maya' thing would probably be a better example. (Although, this act of generosity could be interpreted multiple ways.)



Holy shit, I didn't know cups of tea were capable of raising American children to adulthood.

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