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Takumi not above transitioning the series to iOSTopic%20Title
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Here we've got the Phoenix Wright Trilogy being demoed, skip ahead to ~30:00. They show off the game fairly well. They also make it clear that it's Case 1 and Case 2 of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney that's free, and not the first two 'parts'. (In this game, the trilogy is divided by games, then by case, and further by 'part'. Basically the time between when on the DS the game would compel you to save, often between court and investigation phases.)

What's interesting about the interview at PAX however, is the interviewer makes the comment about how the game and Ghost Trick really feel at home on iOS, and then asks if the series is going to jump from Nintendo to iOS from here on out.

Takumi responded that he agrees that they work well on this platform, but comments that such a transition is dependent on the sales of this edition. (Which makes sense, sales people aren't going to know how the waters are for a product unless they've got something concrete to base it on).

But if you combine this statement with the fact that GS5's premier at the Anniversary/Movie event earlier this year curiously lacked any mention of a platform (or just about anything else for that matter). And you get a pattern of circumstantial evidence where it's not what's said, but rather what is curiously unsaid that paints a suspicious picture.

But, we may or may not get the answer to GS5's platform in just about two weeks from now. TGS is looking rather interesting this year.
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... my frown can not be large enough right now. Let's hope this isn't the case.
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TheRedPriest wrote:
... my frown can not be large enough right now. Let's hope this isn't the case.

Amen to that. I feel like I keep hearing stories about big Japanese developers going all in with iOS and the cell phone market in general, and every time I do I can taste bile. Follow the money, right? :ami:
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I think transitioning to iOS makes a lot of sense, personally. Like it or not, mobile phones/tablets are becoming more and more powerful (we've got phones with quad-core processors now, Christ) and as such are rendering handheld gaming devices obsolete.

However, I can't for the life of me see why Android is being avoided like the plague! Thanks to devices like the Samsung Galaxy S3 and the Google Nexus 7, Apple does not have a monopoly on the high-end of the mobile market like it used to, so I don't see the financial sense in merely opting for iOS. (The fact that people can be so easily suckered into buying iPhones and iPads is shocking, but that's a story for another day)
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Yellow Magician wrote:
I think transitioning to iOS makes a lot of sense, personally. Like it or not, mobile phones/tablets are becoming more and more powerful (we've got phones with quad-core processors now, Christ) and as such are rendering handheld gaming devices obsolete.


Not even in the slightest. One reason: touch screen controls only.
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Lusankya wrote:
Yellow Magician wrote:
I think transitioning to iOS makes a lot of sense, personally. Like it or not, mobile phones/tablets are becoming more and more powerful (we've got phones with quad-core processors now, Christ) and as such are rendering handheld gaming devices obsolete.


Not even in the slightest. One reason: touch screen controls only.

Indeed. It works fine for games such as Ace Attorney, Ghost Trick and Telltale's adventure games, but would, for instance, Super Mario Bros. work on it? Nope.

While I'm not a fan of it moving to IOS, it does makes sense. Perhaps we will be likelier to get the games in the West too, that way?

A better solution would be to release the games on both IOS and the 3DS Eshop, in my opinion.
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Takumi responded that he agrees that they work well on this platform, but comments that such a transition is dependent on the sales of this edition. (Which makes sense, sales people aren't going to know how the waters are for a product unless they've got something concrete to base it on).



Ha Takumi lost a sale with this. Sure I could replay the games in that odd quality port and it is a steal provided I borrow my mothers ipad to play it but if I can simply avoid purchasing it and still get it on DS then I urge everyone with a DS and no iOS device to just steer clear of it like the plague.

I'd opt for new games over replaying the old ones any day.

However yeah it's bad news knowing that it's now official they'll move based on sales of AA12&3, shame I used to think it was a good thing.
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Lusankya wrote:
Yellow Magician wrote:
I think transitioning to iOS makes a lot of sense, personally. Like it or not, mobile phones/tablets are becoming more and more powerful (we've got phones with quad-core processors now, Christ) and as such are rendering handheld gaming devices obsolete.


Not even in the slightest. One reason: touch screen controls only.

Don't know about iOS but there are readily available Gamepads for Android phones, and then there's stuff like this...so I don't think that will be an issue in the near future.
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Yellow Magician wrote:
Lusankya wrote:
Yellow Magician wrote:
I think transitioning to iOS makes a lot of sense, personally. Like it or not, mobile phones/tablets are becoming more and more powerful (we've got phones with quad-core processors now, Christ) and as such are rendering handheld gaming devices obsolete.


Not even in the slightest. One reason: touch screen controls only.

Don't know about iOS but there are readily available Gamepads for Android phones, and then there's stuff like this...so I don't think that will be an issue in the near future.

The first thing is just a horrible idea, because you can't hold the smart phone anymore, when you have to hold the controller. The second one looks exactly like a handheld gaming device. It surely isn't a phone anymore.
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Here's my theory for why the android port is going unmentioned despite clearly existing. Between Android and iOS, iOS is the more profitable of the two. But, Apple does not do exclusive deals. So to that end there's no reason not to mention Android.

But, you run into this catch:

Apple does a week long feature in the AppStore and iTunes, App/Game of the week. This is prime real estate and you gain TONS of sales if you're lucky enough to nab it. Ghost Trick got that honor when it arrived and did well sales wise for it.

But.

To even qualify for that spot, you need to be an Apple exclusive.

So here's the scenario as I see it. PWAA123 launches on the app store, Capcom banks on earning game of the week, once that award is earned, they release on Andriod and let the augmented sale and word of mouth carry them away.

We can call foul, but the fact remains that games are a business and the point of business is to earn money. Without that, the series can join CiNG and Hotel Dusk in the bowls of obscurity.
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Yeah, go ahead Takumi. Just take away from me the last IP from Capcom I'm interested in (and, incidentally, one of my favorite franchises ever). Go ahead.

And all of a sudden, I've lost a great deal of the respect I had for a developer I loved.
Coming from a marketting guy, I wouldn't have bothered too much about such a declaration. But coming from Takumi hiself, now that's a legit, full-fledged kick in the jewels. :sadshoe:
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I dunno if it's a good idea. I mean, what I see from people on the train - the iOS is merely used for short games, that don't require all too much attention, like card games or race tracks or stuff like that. It's casual gamer stuff - you know, something you do while you're in the train for about 10 - 20 minutes.
But with games like AA where you sometimes are supposed to use your head and pay attention, you could end up working for an hour and whoops, you end up missing your train stop. (I haven't encountered a case yet that requires me to pay that much attention, but I hope you get what I mean)

I was going to sound enthusiastic about the sales of PW 1, 2 and 3 and hence influencing AAI2 finally getting localized. But if they put it onto the iOS from the beginning because of that... no. Touch Controls only do not work for me in AAI. I like to use buttons and all that when walking around and during rebuttals, etc. Sometimes the touch controls are nice, other times they seem useless.

But if it really comes to this.... I dunno, I don't really feel like becoming Steve Jobs' bitch and buying an iPad or so "just" for AA...

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Honestly, the possibility of GS5 having an iOS version has never seemed that unlikely to me. Developers in Japan are really getting interested in mobile versions, even for games you wouldn't expect (SFxT, for instance), and Ace Attorney is a series that can be easily divided into a more mobile-friendly format.

That said, I don't know if I expect the series to go exclusively mobile. It's been on Nintendo handhelds since its inception, and the 3DS is still doing strong in Japan. Overall I think GS5 going multiplat is a very real possibility - perhaps 3DS/Vita at retail, and then an iOS version down the line. This way they still get the heavy revenue from $40 retail games as well as the more steady stream from mobile sales later on.

Now, if the series were to go iOS exclusive, that would be a disappointment. Even putting aside the fact that many of us just don't have iPhones or iPads, the simple fact is that mobile releases tend to get less budget and effort than retail ones. There are exceptions - TWEWY iOS clearly had actual effort put into it - but overall I do worry that an iOS-only Ace Attorney wouldn't get nearly the marketing or budget that a retail one would.
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CatMuto wrote:
I dunno if it's a good idea. I mean, what I see from people on the train - the iOS is merely used for short games, that don't require all too much attention, like card games or race tracks or stuff like that. It's casual gamer stuff - you know, something you do while you're in the train for about 10 - 20 minutes.
But with games like AA where you sometimes are supposed to use your head and pay attention, you could end up working for an hour and whoops, you end up missing your train stop. (I haven't encountered a case yet that requires me to pay that much attention, but I hope you get what I mean)

I was going to sound enthusiastic about the sales of PW 1, 2 and 3 and hence influencing AAI2 finally getting localized. But if they put it onto the iOS from the beginning because of that... no. Touch Controls only do not work for me in AAI. I like to use buttons and all that when walking around and during rebuttals, etc. Sometimes the touch controls are nice, other times they seem useless.

But if it really comes to this.... I dunno, I don't really feel like becoming Steve Jobs' bitch and buying an iPad or so "just" for AA...

C-A

If it comes to that, you could just pick up a used iDevice - cheaper, and Apple doesn't make any money on it (if that's imporant to you). That's what I plan to do if the series really does become IOS-exclusive.
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I'm not surprised by this. And as much as we collectively are not a fan of this possability, it may actually be best for the series.

First off, Takumi didn't say that they're going this way. I see some people are already pissed off, and I totally understand their feelings, but we're not even sure this is a real possibility. What Takumi said makes perfect sense from a creative and marketing standpoint. First of all, this is in the middle of a discussion about how well the iOS controls work, so he's going to be a little more unofficial due to the nature of things. If he had a GS5 press release and said "We are experimenting with iOS technology for GS5" then there'd be more to worry about. What basically happened is that someone asked him if the iOS would be a good place to have GS5, and he responded with the professional equivalent of "who knows". He said that the series works well on the platform (which is totally true; no matter what little objections we have to iOS, it's a much better substitute for a DS than, say, a PS3) and that its a possability if the sales for AAHD are good.

If you really think about that statement, it makes perfect sense. We know the AA series isn't doing well over here due to a number of circumstances. We also know that GS123HD was pretty profitable in Japan (I believe). This means if AA123HD sells well here, we'll be back to the balance we had when the PW trilogy was coming out. If AAI on the DS wasn't profitable but AA123HD on iOS is, it means the audience is there. By that thought, it is for the best of the series and the consumer to have GS5 on iOS/Android.

Second, you have to remember that the 3DS isn't the DS. One thing I worried about when hearing about GS5 was how they would have to change gameplay to fit with the new hardware. Assuming it is on the 3DS, no matter what they do they will face controversy. If they keep with the sprite, 2D based character/gameplay design we all know and love, then it will be very difficult for them to create a 3D effect. They can do just a "depth" thing with the sprites on one level and the background on another, but they will face criticism for not evolving and/or making greater use of the 3D effect. However, if they change to something more along the lines of "Layton Vs. Ace Attorney" many (including me) will be skeptic that they can create the feel of the characters that the sprites have. I know LvAA doesn't. (not knocking it, just saying that it doesn't feel the same. I am always aware I'm looking at game graphics. with the AA series you almost believe you're watching an animated film.) So there will be controversy over them changing the entire way the game looks just for 3D/new technology. iOS is a generic device with a generic touch screen and a generic way of gameplay. In its current state, iOS/android is from a technical standpoint the next best thing to the DS in terms of matching AA gameplay. Even better than the 3DS.

Third, we've been blessed with the fact that the entire AA series has been on one console. However, think about your other favorite series. We've always had to move consoles to play the next installments of our favorite games. Every other Legend of Zelda game requires the purchase of a new system with it. After I played and enjoyed Metal Gear Soild: The Twin Snakes on the Gamecube, I ended up having to buy a Playstation 2 to play Metal Gear Solid 2. Back in the 90's we had to constantly upgrade our computers to play new games. The problem is we look at iOS as a phone/tablet for non-gamers who want to play angry birds for 5 minutes every once in a while. Once you look at a touchscreen tablet device (iOS or Android) as just another console, it becomes a little easier to think of buying something for it.

And remember, we are looking at it as consumers. If we had our way, every AA game would come out on DS forever. And rightly so, as it was the perfect system to play a game like that on. But we must also look at it from a creative standpoint. Takumi might be excited by the possibilities the 3DS holds. He might also be sure that it is not the right system to him. It is up to him whether AA needs an evolutionary step or not. It's never been about new gameplay features or technology with AA. It's been about the story and characters, and the puzzles that arise from that. Takumi might not think he needs to change anything. He might think that another platform, be it Vita or iOS or even PC will be better suited to bring his vision to the table than the 3DS. And if that's the case, we can go along with him or choose to not purchase the product. The first two Metal Gear games were on the MSX, a home computer similar to commodore 64. However, Metal Gear Solid was released on the Playstation. PC users considered consoles a lower class of game machines to computers (similar to how we feel about mobile games; and actually most PC gamers still feel that way) so they were no doubt annoyed at the switch. But it was the most profitable and creatively innovative way to do it, and they did. And it made a bunch of money and became a classic.

And Fourth,the reason why we feel there aren't any good games on iOS is because there isn't a big market for it. That's half because most people use their phones for angry birds and half because we, the gamers, haven't created a market for it. There are some great games available on iOS, (especially in the adventure genre) but you don't hear about them because the gamers aren't buying it and the casual gamers aren't buying it. A great game called Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars is a game that plays a little like AAI but is a mystery adventure around Paris, Ireland, Spain, and more. It's a great, Da Vinci Code-like historical conspiracy game. It was a great game on the PC back in the 90s and they released a director's cut on iOS. Why is it not on the bestsellers list? Because casual gamers don't want a game that takes a bunch of time to play and has a plot you need to pay attention to to understand. AA fans would love it, but most gamers don't bother playing mobile games so they don't buy it. My point is that we are half to blame for the fact that there is still a shortage in long good games for iOS. We saw that there weren't any titles and gave up, and since only casual fans are spending money, only casual games are being made.

Fifth (and last) point, IT WILL NOT ONLY BE ON iOS. It may be exclusive for a little bit, but it wouldn't make sense from Capcom's standpoint to make any of its AA titles iOS exclusive. Android is getting bigger and bigger every day, and I think it might already have almost as many users as iPhone users. Android is cheaper, more varied, and is more interesting to the hardcore gamer than apple's products, and there's no way that market will be ignored. GS123HD has an android version in Japan. I'm sure they set it up to be an easy port to iOS/Android. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the GS123HD engine for GS5. And while iOS devices are a total ripoff for anyone not interested in the actual device, Android devices can be found dirt cheap in many places. Gamestop is starting to sell them. You can get them even cheaper used. For most of us, Android will be the way to go if the series makes this transition.

In Conclusion, Takumi isn't saying they're using iOS for GS5. In fact, he might not even be considering it. It's not like he's going to be advertising AA123 on iOS, then say "For GS5, iOS is out of the question due to the fact that it just isn't a good market for this kind of game". But we have to face the fact that, in its current state, AA is more suited to iOS/Android than 3DS. Unless Takumi feels ready to change up a lot iOS/Android will be more attractive to him. It has the poss ability of being both good for the franchise and to Capcom, and it has the possibility of turning app stores into the places we want them to be. Having a new AA (GS5, the most hyped, anticipated, and mysterious one ever) will no doubt have an impact on the shape of mobile games. Even if it just makes someone stumble upon it, play it and fall in love with it, and think "I want to play more games like that!".

It may sound like I'm for having GS5 on iOS. I'm not when you think about it in a black and white sense. I would prefer AA to stay in the DS family. But I can also see that this is not, in the words of Abed from Community, "the darkest timeline". I'd rather have an amazing AA on iOS/Android than a possibly mediocre AA on 3DS. And I'd rather have the series continue in America on iOS/Android than not continue at all.

AAI showed that due to a bunch of factors AA was no longer profitable on the DS. Unfortunately, we have no way to judge how popular AA will be on the 3DS. (At least 60% of the traffic from AAvsL will be Layton fans.) We do, however, have a chance to get the series on its feet again, even if its on systems we would prefer not be used. Even during the AAI2 ordeal, they always hinted at "possibly on another system". It seems Capcom doesn't have much hope for Nintendo and AA right now, and there's nothing we can do about that. But it would be a shame to have the series not be released because the audience only wants it for 3DS.
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You bring up a TON of excellent points, but there's one in particular I think needs extra attention.

You brought up Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. The game is slated to be sold in Japan this year, at least, it was listed as such on Level-5's TGS website.

So this Fall, we'll have the PW trilogy being sold, and soon after, Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. This'll be quite the way for Capcom to get a TON of relevant sales data off the two different platforms. It may just be Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney and the PW trilogy that determines the series future. The Japanese sales for GS123HD may be strong, but they were offset by being a promotion for the movie. So they're artificially high. How high? I don't have a clue how they'd guess. But the western release won't be artificially upgraded by the movie. Likewise, Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney is being sold without an outside promotion. Granted, you cannot ignore that Layton will help the game's sales A LOT. But it'll be evidence period of how the series would do on the 3DS.

Now, here's where things are tricky:

Soon Capcom Japan will have a ton of relivant sales data for two games on two platforms. But, GS5 has been in development for almost a year now. So any data collected would only be useful for say, GS6. So in likely hood, they made their decision for platform well before TGS. And the most recent sales data then would be for the slightly dubious GS123HD.

So your Takumi. Your last origional work was Ghost Trick, which you just finished releasing on iOS. It sells decently. You complete and sell GS123HD. That's now two games worth of experience on iOS. Meanwhile you're collaborating with Level-5 at some undisclosed level. So you've likely got some idea what the 3DS is capable of. You know Layton's sales will likely pull in a lot more fans the movie tie in game did. You're at the critical juncture where you need to decide the platform. Knowing that, what do you decide?
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Wooster wrote:
You bring up a TON of excellent points, but there's one in particular I think needs extra attention.

You brought up Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. The game is slated to be sold in Japan this year, at least, it was listed as such on Level-5's TGS website.

So this Fall, we'll have the PW trilogy being sold, and soon after, Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. This'll be quite the way for Capcom to get a TON of relevant sales data off the two different platforms. It may just be Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney and the PW trilogy that determines the series future. The Japanese sales for GS123HD may be strong, but they were offset by being a promotion for the movie. So they're artificially high. How high? I don't have a clue how they'd guess. But the western release won't be artificially upgraded by the movie. Likewise, Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney is being sold without an outside promotion. Granted, you cannot ignore that Layton will help the game's sales A LOT. But it'll be evidence period of how the series would do on the 3DS.

Now, here's where things are tricky:

Soon Capcom Japan will have a ton of relivant sales data for two games on two platforms. But, GS5 has been in development for almost a year now. So any data collected would only be useful for say, GS6. So in likely hood, they made their decision for platform well before TGS. And the most recent sales data then would be for the slightly dubious GS123HD.

So your Takumi. Your last origional work was Ghost Trick, which you just finished releasing on iOS. It sells decently. You complete and sell GS123HD. That's now two games worth of experience on iOS. Meanwhile you're collaborating with Level-5 at some undisclosed level. So you've likely got some idea what the 3DS is capable of. You know Layton's sales will likely pull in a lot more fans the movie tie in game did. You're at the critical juncture where you need to decide the platform. Knowing that, what do you decide?


Wow so either way there's a benefit and an uncertainty. It's almost exciting finding out which one it will be. I've always heard that the Layton fan base is quite a bit bigger than the AA one. Do we know how large the audience actually is?

The hard part is that Layton has had a relatively constant stream of titles being released, and AA hasn't (at least in America). Makes it really hard to predict how popular it still is. How will Takumi know what revenue is coming from the AA side and what is coming from the PL side?
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I can't wait until it can be out for iOS, the touch screen controls for visual novels in general just play naturally well for me.


I certainly hope the sales for the GS collection does well enough to consider having at least a port to the mobile platform...I don't really want to buy a dedicated portable handheld for just one game, but if it doesn't come to iOS, oh well.
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http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/20/profe ... -in-sales/
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/news ... 01020.html
Joystiq wrote:
Though Phoenix Wright and Professor Layton's first in-game face-off was just announced for 3DS, Layton has already triumphed over the plucky defense attorney in another arena: game sales. Capcom and Level-5 noted life-to-date sales for both series in the announcement of the title, and Professor Layton trounces the Ace Attorney series with 9.5 million units sold worldwide, versus Ace Attorney's 3.9 million.

That 3.9 million includes a lot of versions of the same games. Since the first Phoenix Wright's release in Japan in 2001, the five games have been released on Game Boy Advance, PC, DS, mobile phones, iPhone, and WiiWare. The four Professor Layton games have only been released once each on DS, with a couple of original games on Japanese cell phones. However, Layton has Nintendo marketing behind it in the west, with Nintendo pushing the puzzle games to audiences beyond the core gamer set.

Even though this game announcement was beyond effective with fanboys (we know from, um, reading comments and not personal experience at all!), the two companies still have audience expansion in mind. "We feel that by drawing upon the strengths of both series, this collaboration will bring new, casual game players to the adventure game genre and into the world of gaming in general while strengthening the value of the two brands overall."


Special thanks goes out to that trip'n dame, Croik, who boosted this off of Joystiq for us.




Wooster
So, pretending that each game was an equal portion of sales, it wasn't but for simplicity's sake:
That'd be .78 Million per game for GS...
And….
1.9 Million per game for Layton, assuming Layton on 3DS counts.
If not then 2.375 million per game.

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Layton owns us, lol

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Wooster
So at worst, Layton outsells us by a factor of 3.
At best, shy of 2.5
And even then, that's assuming all of the fandom was on the DS.
If the fandom is split say, half on GBA/DS and half on other ports, that's terrifying.
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Huddini wrote:
I can't wait until it can be out for iOS, the touch screen controls for visual novels in general just play naturally well for me.


I certainly hope the sales for the GS collection does well enough to consider having at least a port to the mobile platform...I don't really want to buy a dedicated portable handheld for just one game, but if it doesn't come to iOS, oh well.


This is the other thing to be aware of. There are those, like most of us, who have a 3DS and are worried about buying an iOS/Android device.

But there are also those who have a DS and an iOS/Android device who don't want to buy a 3DS.

So either way there will be fans that get it dropped in their lap and there will be fans that have to spend around 200 bucks to play GS5.

Wooster, Thanks for the figures. That's why I'm a little worried about Layton vs AA being the basis for GS5's release. If they decide that Layton is what's bringing home the bacon, AA's 3DS American Translation chances might be in jeopardy. (I don't know how they would check that, but I can't imagine they would go forward with localizing GS5 blindly just because of a game with another, better selling character in it.
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Huddini wrote:
I can't wait until it can be out for iOS, the touch screen controls for visual novels in general just play naturally well for me.


I certainly hope the sales for the GS collection does well enough to consider having at least a port to the mobile platform...I don't really want to buy a dedicated portable handheld for just one game, but if it doesn't come to iOS, oh well.


I suppose Huddini is an example of how the fanbase may be split by this decision.

Though yes Layton gets far more marketing than AA to the point of TV ads. It's a phenomenon that boosts off the back of the DS's accessibility to all ages, older gamers who had one bought for them for Brain Training or something similar as an innovative gift along with one of the 'games' that consist of a small library of classic novels will enjoy this game for it's puzzles (at least if the marketing is to be believed).

However considering that Layton outmuscles AA in a fanbase sense I'm not sure what good it'll do to analyse sales of Layton vs AA.
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It matters a ton because the GS series gets to leach off in a very significant way a large paying fandom that's interested in gaming. As opposed to the movie fandom who may not be interested in gaming.

Also, updated my previous post with some number crunching.
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Wooster wrote:
Also, updated my previous post with some number crunching.


Those numbers are scary. Capcom could easily make the decision that most of the profit from AAvsPL came from Layton and decide not to localize GS5.

And yet at the same time I can't hope for an iOS AA until I see PWAATHD being profitable.

I'm going to be feeling uneasy until TGS. :larry:
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No no no. You're looking at it the wrong way. Say the game sells 3 million. High, but not unreasonable for a major colab game. Say a third of that install base is curious about more Ace Attorney. Less then half, but a good number. That's a million ready customers for GS5 on the 3DS. This is about expanding the market. That's great.

Now, how many copies were sold for GS123HD? No one knows but Capcom. It's the difference in something like the number I guessed that could make the call for GS6.

But I'm betting Capcom knows the math. They've done a lot of colab games so they know how much power a different franchise effects the other's future sales. Using that as a guessing point, they may have had all they needed a couple of weeks after the movie was out in Japan.
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Wooster wrote:
No no no. You're looking at it the wrong way. Say the game sells 3 million. High, but not unreasonable for a major colab game. Say a third of that install base is curious about more Ace Attorney. Less then half, but a good number. That's a million ready customers for GS5 on the 3DS. This is about expanding the market. That's great.

Now, how many copies were sold for GS123HD? No one knows but Capcom. It's the difference in something like the number I guessed that could make the call for GS6.

But I'm betting Capcom knows the math. They've done a lot of colab games so they know how much power a different franchise effects the other's future sales. Using that as a guessing point, they may have had all they needed a couple of weeks after the movie was out in Japan.


Oh I see what you mean now. I guess I thought that anyone interested in AA from Layton would seek out the Phoenix Wright trilogy, but thinking about it further they will probably associate more with the title "Ace Attorney" than the actual character itself. (I mean, I heard about Apollo Justice and played it knowing PW was the first one, so I should have thought of that.) I see what you mean now though. Now I'm back to not being able to pick a choice for what I'm hoping it comes out on.
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I'd better start saving for that iPhone :sadshoe:

Though I predict this TGS will be really interesting for all of us.
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Wooster wrote:
You bring up a TON of excellent points, but there's one in particular I think needs extra attention.

You brought up Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. The game is slated to be sold in Japan this year, at least, it was listed as such on Level-5's TGS website.

So this Fall, we'll have the PW trilogy being sold, and soon after, Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. This'll be quite the way for Capcom to get a TON of relevant sales data off the two different platforms. It may just be Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney and the PW trilogy that determines the series future. The Japanese sales for GS123HD may be strong, but they were offset by being a promotion for the movie. So they're artificially high. How high? I don't have a clue how they'd guess. But the western release won't be artificially upgraded by the movie. Likewise, Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney is being sold without an outside promotion. Granted, you cannot ignore that Layton will help the game's sales A LOT. But it'll be evidence period of how the series would do on the 3DS.

Now, here's where things are tricky:

Soon Capcom Japan will have a ton of relivant sales data for two games on two platforms. But, GS5 has been in development for almost a year now. So any data collected would only be useful for say, GS6. So in likely hood, they made their decision for platform well before TGS. And the most recent sales data then would be for the slightly dubious GS123HD.

So your Takumi. Your last origional work was Ghost Trick, which you just finished releasing on iOS. It sells decently. You complete and sell GS123HD. That's now two games worth of experience on iOS. Meanwhile you're collaborating with Level-5 at some undisclosed level. So you've likely got some idea what the 3DS is capable of. You know Layton's sales will likely pull in a lot more fans the movie tie in game did. You're at the critical juncture where you need to decide the platform. Knowing that, what do you decide?


You have a solid point there, Layton vs Ace Attorney will get ALLOT of sales without Outside advertisement, and with Japan being more intact with Ace Attorney and Layton, we can assume it WILL outsell GS123HD by ALLOT
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What's with all the paranoid non-IOS owners?

Capcom is historically the most whore-ish developer out there. They put their games on as many systems as possible. They were one of the only major developers to work on the dreamcast. As long as 3DS software is selling well, Capcom will sell games for it. STOP WORRYING!

Though personally, I prefer playing AA on my ipad to my DS. I don't have to hold my ipad near my face and/or squint to see the kanji.
And I don't like the 3D effect on 3DS :sawit-mad: For AA give me IOS anyday.
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ouboros wrote:
And I don't like the 3D effect on 3DS :sawit-mad:

Nobody forces you to use it.
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Are there really 3DS games out there that forcefully make you turn the 3D on? If anything I see GS5 using other 3DS features such as the gyroscope or hell, even the camera in some new clever way.

I suppose it's a bit difficult for me to believe Capcom will not release a new GS game on a Nintendo handheld it's quite the shift. It's been basically tradition, sure there's the games on PC and iOS but those are just ports/HD remakes. Though I think this is mostly based on the already established, GS fanbase in Japan they've been there since the GBA days, so It wouldn't surprise me too much if only Japan gets the 3DS release and we only get an iOS version later on. Though I'd love the option to have them on both... Just wishful thinking on my part.
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L~A wrote:
Yeah, go ahead Takumi. Just take away from me the last IP from Capcom I'm interested in (and, incidentally, one of my favorite franchises ever). Go ahead.

And all of a sudden, I've lost a great deal of the respect I had for a developer I loved.
Coming from a marketting guy, I wouldn't have bothered too much about such a declaration. But coming from Takumi hiself, now that's a legit, full-fledged kick in the jewels. :sadshoe:


Um, I wouldn't be blaming Takumi himself, what's he going to say? 'No, I refuse to consider iOS, wait while Capcom censures me for such a comment'?

It doesn't sound like the best idea, however. Apart from, yeah, Apple, in a few years everything will be different. Even if still Apple-dominated market, will the iPad 2014 still play games from now? Unlike those GBA/3/DS it makes financial sense to apple to NOT have things backwards compatible, so you just have to buy everything again every few years... If they really do switch to that market, they might start making and releasing the games as individual cases/episodes... (They declined this at an interview once but that was long long ago!) Then they'd probably end up more like the filler cases and less like the overarching story. Also phones and tablets are really for casual gaming. But I guess they figure they can just port things yet again. The smart thing would just be to make a game that can be relatively easily ported to different things in general.... (People were complaining about the 'HD' art, but it looks like it was based on the art used in the production never originally intended to be seen at that 'high definition' on a screen.)

However wasn't GK3 mentioned recently? Just the producer (?) saying he'd 'like to make it' but that was what happened just before GK2 was officially announced into production.

Quote:
'But, GS5 has been in development for almost a year now.'

That doesn't mean they've actually done anything, it was just officially decided to be going to happen and someone drew an ambiguous logo. Takumi, for one, must have spent most of that time on PL vs PW. I'm not sure he had anything to do with PWHD because it's already written as far as his input is concerned.

The problem with 3DS is games are 'expected' to make use of its 3d gimmicks. I wouldn't care if it didn't but I don't have a 3DS. I can see this is just a pain for the writers to invent unnecessary 3DS 'features' for the game, especially ones that are extraneous so they can still port it to something else later on.

Alex wrote:
If it comes to that, you could just pick up a used iDevice - cheaper, and Apple doesn't make any money on it (if that's imporant to you). That's what I plan to do if the series really does become IOS-exclusive.

The business model seems to be they make money on everything, buying one is like renting time in a portable iStore...I don't know to what extent jailbreaking subverts this...

As for Layton, I don't know about the USA but Nintendo has done sooo much excessive marketing for that franchise here. That's why people also bought things like Brain Training which isn't even a game.
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Alex wrote:
If it comes to that, you could just pick up a used iDevice - cheaper, and Apple doesn't make any money on it (if that's imporant to you). That's what I plan to do if the series really does become IOS-exclusive.


Well, more like, I don't want to become one of the masses of Bimbos with an iDevice, tans, black hair and kidney-freezing lowrider pants even in the middle of winter. I already feel awkward having a Galaxy SIII phone - birthday present, cause my old one fucked my incoming calls up.

You know, if they just brought it out for the Galaxy SIII, too, it'd be easy. No need to spend even more money.

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CatMuto wrote:
Well, more like, I don't want to become one of the masses of Bimbos with an iDevice, tans, black hair and kidney-freezing lowrider pants even in the middle of winter. I already feel awkward having a Galaxy SIII phone - birthday present, cause my old one fucked my incoming calls up.


=P And you'd rather be known as one of the Nintendo nerds? Stereotypes for the win!
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Wooster wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Well, more like, I don't want to become one of the masses of Bimbos with an iDevice, tans, black hair and kidney-freezing lowrider pants even in the middle of winter. I already feel awkward having a Galaxy SIII phone - birthday present, cause my old one fucked my incoming calls up.


=P And you'd rather be known as one of the Nintendo nerds? Stereotypes for the win!


Frankly, yes. :redd: At least their clothes look comfortable to sit in for hours on end. Except the jeans. I find jeans very uncomfortable. :yuusaku:

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Lusankya wrote:
The first thing is just a horrible idea, because you can't hold the smart phone anymore, when you have to hold the controller. The second one looks exactly like a handheld gaming device. It surely isn't a phone anymore.

Is that really an issue if the controller and smart phone are connected? I'm talking about stuff like this which doesn't seem so hard to grip if you ask me (and it's iPhone compatible by the looks of it, go figure).

The second one isn't a phone, it's a tablet. However, it'll have the functionality of a handheld gaming device while being useful for...whatever iPads are useful for. Pretty neat, IMO.
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dirtypantsdan wrote:
Are there really 3DS games out there that forcefully make you turn the 3D on? If anything I see GS5 using other 3DS features such as the gyroscope or hell, even the camera in some new clever way.

I suppose it's a bit difficult for me to believe Capcom will not release a new GS game on a Nintendo handheld it's quite the shift. It's been basically tradition, sure there's the games on PC and iOS but those are just ports/HD remakes. Though I think this is mostly based on the already established, GS fanbase in Japan they've been there since the GBA days, so It wouldn't surprise me too much if only Japan gets the 3DS release and we only get an iOS version later on. Though I'd love the option to have them on both... Just wishful thinking on my part.


No there is no game that requires you turn the 3D on for sure as far as I know. I think Super Mario Land 3D required you turn on the 3D to solve some OPTIONAL perception-based puzzles. However the 3D operates on a slider scale so it can be adjusted to a degree you are comfortable with and even then you can just turn it off afterwards. Some games even disable 3D for moments so that even if the slider is up it won't do anything like the intro video to SSFIV 3D though perhaps since that was a port it was just due to laziness on Capcoms behalf though I've heard of 3D disabling on other devices.

In fact I heard that one 3DS exclusive game Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor Overclocked (a 3DS remake) neglected to use 3D at all instead using the 3DS' greater capabilities to improve graphics and add almost full voice acting as well as additional storylines. I guess it's an example of how the 3DS is not simply a DS upgraded with a 3D gimmick.
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There's an inherent flaw with mandatory accessories, especially those that don't come prepackaged with either the hard or software.

Look at the Wii. How many games use just the Wiimote? How many used the Nunchuck? Classic Controller? GCN controller? Wii Balance Board?

You'll find the further down the chain you go, the less support there is. The only real mainstream accessories for cell phones are cases. Making the assumption that people have anything more then the default (touch screens) is asking to have your product flop. Support. Sure. But don't make it mandatory. Wii Fit only gets away with it because it comes with the game. I have yet to come across a Wii game that's GCN controller only, likely a Ninteno policy. And I'm unaware of any classic controler only games. Virtual console doesn't count.
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Wooster wrote:
There's an inherent flaw with mandatory accessories, especially those that don't come prepackaged with either the hard or software.

Look at the Wii. How many games use just the Wiimote? How many used the Nunchuck? Classic Controller? GCN controller? Wii Balance Board?

You'll find the further down the chain you go, the less support there is. The only real mainstream accessories for cell phones are cases. Making the assumption that people have anything more then the default (touch screens) is asking to have your product flop. Support. Sure. But don't make it mandatory. Wii Fit only gets away with it because it comes with the game. I have yet to come across a Wii game that's GCN controller only, likely a Ninteno policy. And I'm unaware of any classic controler only games. Virtual console doesn't count.


Monster Hunter Tri may count, it launched and came with a snazzy black classic controller which played wonderfully while the actual wii/chuk controls (while available) were rather clunky and got you killed.
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That falls under the Wii Fit board clause. It comes bundled with the controller.

No one it going to buy AA123, and then an accessory just so you can play it.
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Pierre wrote:
No there is no game that requires you turn the 3D on for sure as far as I know. I think Super Mario Land 3D required you turn on the 3D to solve some OPTIONAL perception-based puzzles.


Actually, if you stood on an eye block in one of these puzzles, the room would rotate (while you stand on it) to show how the room is layed out. That way, if you are 6 years old or younger and your parent disabled the 3D or if you simply can't stand the 3D effect, you could still solve it.

So far developers have been smart enough to not force the 3D aspect in 3DS games. And yes, you can programmatically disable 3D. You often see this used in things like the game over text in Sonic Generations, where there is no background to pop the text out of. I don't know if any game (other than virtual console and DS games) has the 3D effect completely disabled throughout though.
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