Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...? : Courthouse Steps

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:03 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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CatMuto wrote:

What if the prosecutor is still Klavier? That feather-boa-scarf thing looks perfect for a glimmerous fop like him and he could've changed his hairstyle. And first case against him contains false evidence - dejá vu!

C-A

No to the false evidence; we've already been through that, and we don't need another case like it. Nor will Nick be as naive as to accept evidence like that.

I still prefer the new prosecutor to be a new character. Male, female, doesn't matter; but please, enough with the underaged lawyers. Franzy already pushed the limit back in the day, and Edgey at 20 doesn't seem impressive anymore.

Actually, what if our mystery prosecutor is indeed someone we (mainly the Jap fan base) would know: Yumihiko Ichiyanagi? It may be a bit unfair to those out of Japan who haven't played GK2, but I can somewhat picture him with those curls... (Though, I don't really see him without Mikagami somewhere nearby, so maybe she'll make an appearance too?)

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Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:30 pm

Neni

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I don't know about Yumihiko. He was cute, but not exactly a character I am dying to see again, at least not for an entire game. He'd be alright as a stand-in prosecutor for one case or a half, but I don't really need more from him. He had some interesting stuff going on that could be expanded on, but none of these things seem very well fit for a rival role. (That was the problem with him to beginn with. >_>)
Also, I have a personal grudge against Mikagami that will probably never die down, but that's just me. I'd... prefer to not see that woman again.

...Because I felt the need to advertise my fanfic with a self-drawn, animated banner. Yes, I'm obsessed, why do you ask?

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:53 pm

CatMuto

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Quote:

No to the false evidence; we've already been through that, and we don't need another case like it. Nor will Nick be as naive as to accept evidence like that.

I never said Nick would be the one to accept or present evidence that turns out to be illegal. It would be a pretty big "Haw Haw!" into his face and the fans if, after re-taking the bar exam, he's plain DUMB enough to do that.... AGAIN.
No, perhaps a witness who was the first to see the victim comes in and says they have evidence to hand to court because they took it from the crime scene for whatever reason. Although, Valant.... well, he would've not been that suspected, had he just admitted to the tampering of the crime scene...

C-A

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:04 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Neni wrote:

I don't know about Yumihiko. He was cute, but not exactly a character I am dying to see again, at least not for an entire game. He'd be alright as a stand-in prosecutor for one case or a half, but I don't really need more from him. He had some interesting stuff going on that could be expanded on, but none of these things seem very well fit for a rival role. (That was the problem with him to beginn with. >_>)
Also, I have a personal grudge against Mikagami that will probably never die down, but that's just me. I'd... prefer to not see that woman again.

Yeah, their roles in GK2 weren't spectacular. That's why I'm hoping Capcom might further develop them in this game. But it's much more likely that they won't. If he was in this game, he'd be more of a rival to Edgeworth than to Phoenix. What concerns me, though, is just how popular he is back in Japan. How will Capcom respond...?

CatMuto wrote:

I never said Nick would be the one to accept or present evidence that turns out to be illegal. It would be a pretty big "Haw Haw!" into his face and the fans if, after re-taking the bar exam, he's plain DUMB enough to do that.... AGAIN.
No, perhaps a witness who was the first to see the victim comes in and says they have evidence to hand to court because they took it from the crime scene for whatever reason. Although, Valant.... well, he would've not been that suspected, had he just admitted to the tampering of the crime scene...

C-A

Sorry, but we've also already had a case like that. :aiga:

And he was caught for it. I don't have a personal vendetta against this idea, but I don't see much room for more development. We've got :adrian:

tampering with the crime scene before and almost getting herself convicted. We have :mina:

admitting to tampering the scene, and she was caught for the main crime. We even have :garyuu:

always tampering with the scene, and getting caught twice. Wright-Justice combo destroys every evil plan out there. Now that Kokone's here, the trio is unstoppable.

...Which will be up to Capcom to nerf them somehow. Farewell, My Turnabout was one of the best twists I've played in the series. Perhaps another kidnapping or murder case within a murder case (case-ception?) will be applied to throw them off. Imagine chasing one criminal, only to have to track down another for the murder of the former.

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

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Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:58 pm

Neni

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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

Yeah, their roles in GK2 weren't spectacular. That's why I'm hoping Capcom might further develop them in this game. But it's much more likely that they won't. If he was in this game, he'd be more of a rival to Edgeworth than to Phoenix. What concerns me, though, is just how popular he is back in Japan. How will Capcom respond...?

What surprises me is that, despite being a base breaker, Trucy and Apollo (Trucy especially) are also still very popular characters in Japan. You find plenty of art of them on Pixiv and there have been at least a ton of Doujinshi that basically plead for them to get a relevant role in GS5. The reason Apollo was suspended from Protagonist duty is because of how the Western Fanbase reacted to him, not the Japanese.

Because of this, I doubt they would go and use Yumihiko, a character from a game they aren't even planning to localize. :grossburg:

...Because I felt the need to advertise my fanfic with a self-drawn, animated banner. Yes, I'm obsessed, why do you ask?

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:57 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Neni wrote:

What surprises me is that, despite being a base breaker, Trucy and Apollo (Trucy especially) are also still very popular characters in Japan. You find plenty of art of them on Pixiv and there have been at least a ton of Doujinshi that basically plead for them to get a relevant role in GS5. The reason Apollo was suspended from Protagonist duty is because of how the Western Fanbase reacted to him, not the Japanese.

Because of this, I doubt they would go and use Yumihiko, a character from a game they aren't even planning to localize. :grossburg:

Actually, the Japanese fanbase is just as split over GS4 as the Western fanbases are. A contributing factor to GS4's popularity was its timely arrival on the NDS when the console was still well received. GK2 had the ill luck of coming too late for profitable localization. Regardless, the game is still a part of the canon. But guessing how GS5 is playing very much toward the fans, out of the GK2-exclusive characters, Shigaraki has the best chance (also thanks to that catchy theme) to show up, but only if he's somehow relevant.

None of that was ever a concern for me, though. My concerns lie in the case plots themselves. What's the reason behind having Nick face a completely new face, if it is? Likewise, if it's a familiar face, why the physical change in appearance? My curiosity blooms further with further developments...

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Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:22 am

CatMuto

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Quote:

We've got

tampering with the crime scene before and almost getting herself convicted.

That's because she was a moron for keeping her mouth shut.
Actually, if she had admitted to the beginning that yes, she tampered because she knew Matt was at fault, she would've been convicted of tampering with the crime scene and be done with it. With all the cop-out stuff she did, she just rode her high horse right into the shit-pile herself. (Then again 2-4 never seemed like that good a case to me. Important message, but that's all.)

Quote:

Because of this, I doubt they would go and use Yumihiko, a character from a game they aren't even planning to localize.

Well, it was said that GK2 will maybe come ported to Androi/iOS if Trilogy HD and blablabla, I dunno. I'd like a localized version of GK2 (although a pure translation would be just fun with me, too) but I don't think I'd want to get myself an iPhone just for getting the AA games which I'm quite happy with on the DS just to get GK2.... although I have been known to get a console solely for one game. (That generally changed into getting more games for said console)

C-A

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:36 pm

Neni

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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

Actually, the Japanese fanbase is just as split over GS4 as the Western fanbases are. A contributing factor to GS4's popularity was its timely arrival on the NDS when the console was still well received. GK2 had the ill luck of coming too late for profitable localization. Regardless, the game is still a part of the canon. But guessing how GS5 is playing very much toward the fans, out of the GK2-exclusive characters, Shigaraki has the best chance (also thanks to that catchy theme) to show up, but only if he's somehow relevant.

It's out of question the Japanese Fanbase is just as split about GS4 as we are, but I was under the impression that this was more due to the plot and Hobo!Phoenix than due to the new characters. I have yet to see a japanese Fan complain about Trucy and the complaints about Apollo are mostly weaker than the ones I tend to see in the western Fanbase. That's my one reason for hoping that they won't dispose of those two characters.

As for Tateyuki, he was the *one* interesting thing in all of GK2. I really wouldn't mind seeing him again.

...Because I felt the need to advertise my fanfic with a self-drawn, animated banner. Yes, I'm obsessed, why do you ask?

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:01 am

Bad Player

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Neni wrote:

As for Tateyuki, he was the *one* interesting thing in all of GK2. I really wouldn't mind seeing him again.

Ew no, Tateyuki was awful. I was very happy that he got less and less relevant with each case.

Anyway, I doubt we'll see Tateyuki in GS5. He's an attorney (we already have Nick filling that job, and possibly Kokone if necessary), he only has connections to Edgey, not Nick, and I really doubt Tateyuki would swap sides in the courtroom.

Mikagami was pretty annoying, but then her characterization at the end made up for everything <3 I feel like her story is done, though. I think it'd be nice if she was randomly the judge in one case (without having any impact on the plot or anything, it's just that she's the judge xP) but on the other hand, a good chunk of the court section humor comes from the Judge's incompetence, so... And I think the possibility of her being the prosecutor is out of the question xP

Finally, Yumihiko. I was wondering if they'd even consider him, since GK2 hasn't been released in the west. I didn't really like him as a character, but I thought he had really great character development in GK2. (Someday we need to have a huge discussion on GK2, Neni, but IIRC every single time it's come up we've disagreed on everything xP) I do think he does have some really good potential to be a prosecutor in GS5. For instance...

Spoiler: GK2 (not really, but just to be on the safe side)

Or they could do to Yumihiko what they did to Nick in GS4, and insert some catastrophic event to Yumihiko between GK2 and GS5. I think it has potential, and would like to see what happened to him down the line after GK2.

As for Apollo, your theory works and is really interesting, Neni. I think it'd be really interesting development added to the existing characters, rather than just padding on even more characters. I'm not sure how much we can base it off the silhouette, though; I feel like you could fill it in to reasonably be any character with a relatively normal body type xP

...

And I'm totally not supporting the Yumihiko-as-GS5-prosecutor thing just because he's my Pick-Your-Prosecutor! entry. Totally.

Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:58 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Neni wrote:

It's out of question the Japanese Fanbase is just as split about GS4 as we are, but I was under the impression that this was more due to the plot and Hobo!Phoenix than due to the new characters. I have yet to see a japanese Fan complain about Trucy and the complaints about Apollo are mostly weaker than the ones I tend to see in the western Fanbase. That's my one reason for hoping that they won't dispose of those two characters.

As for Tateyuki, he was the *one* interesting thing in all of GK2. I really wouldn't mind seeing him again.

Exploring 2ch can sometimes reveal many... interesting comments. I've been to plenty of forums, and thankfully, this one is one of the most peaceful.

Bad Player wrote:

Ew no, Tateyuki was awful. I was very happy that he got less and less relevant with each case.

Anyway, I doubt we'll see Tateyuki in GS5. He's an attorney (we already have Nick filling that job, and possibly Kokone if necessary), he only has connections to Edgey, not Nick, and I really doubt Tateyuki would swap sides in the courtroom.

But you have to admit that his theme is awfully catchy. Too bad he's so underdeveloped that he doesn't relate to anything outside of those past cases. If he had been there since GS1, Takumi could have expanded so much more on the DL-6 case.

Quote:

Mikagami was pretty annoying, but then her characterization at the end made up for everything <3 I feel like her story is done, though. I think it'd be nice if she was randomly the judge in one case (without having any impact on the plot or anything, it's just that she's the judge xP) but on the other hand, a good chunk of the court section humor comes from the Judge's incompetence, so... And I think the possibility of her being the prosecutor is out of the question xP

異議なし！

Spoiler: Just to be safe

It'd also be a startling contrast between them: the ficklest and the most stubborn judges Phoenix Wright has ever met. Court frustrations have never been higher.

Quote:

Finally, Yumihiko. I was wondering if they'd even consider him, since GK2 hasn't been released in the west. I didn't really like him as a character, but I thought he had really great character development in GK2.
...

また、異議なし！ It's been several years after he's met Edgeworth, after all. He has plenty of room to develop.

Of course, we could say that for almost any relevant character introduced in the original trilogy. Obviously, the fan favorites have top priority... and so do that charming old lady and Larry.

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Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:07 pm

Gerkuman

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If I felt like trolling I'd probably try and prove the silhouette was Wendy Oldbag.

But I can't be bothered to. Some interesting theories here though.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:56 pm

CatMuto

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Gerkuman wrote:

If I felt like trolling I'd probably try and prove the silhouette was Wendy Oldbag.

Gh...!

Probably with a stolen ~~fuchsia~~ wine-red suit of Edgeworth's as her outfit! :edgeworth:

And a feather boa, of course. Because... well... when you annoy her and her ray-gun is no longer at hand... Boa-Fight~! :keiko:

C-A

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:30 am

icer

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Neni wrote:

The reason Apollo was suspended from Protagonist duty is because of how the Western Fanbase reacted to him, not the Japanese.

You seriously believe that? GS is only written with the JP marketing/sales in mind.

LOL parody sig trend. Phoenix/Maya Day is Sept 5!
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Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:39 am

Neni

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icer wrote:

Neni wrote:

The reason Apollo was suspended from Protagonist duty is because of how the Western Fanbase reacted to him, not the Japanese.

You seriously believe that? GS is only written with the JP marketing/sales in mind.

...Which is why they gave us immediate confirmation for a western release of the new game starring Phoenix, of course.

...Because I felt the need to advertise my fanfic with a self-drawn, animated banner. Yes, I'm obsessed, why do you ask?

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:29 am

Louise

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Gerkuman wrote:

If I felt like trolling I'd probably try and prove the silhouette was Wendy Oldbag.

Wish I could be arsed to draw that, it'd be SO HOT.

Though in all honesty you're wrong, it's clearly the silhouette of Gumshoe, he just de-beefed and started dressing a bit... metrosexual.

Edit:

Neni wrote:

*) The feather shown in the trailer looks like the feather of an Eagle. What are Eagles commonly known for? For the fact that they have very sharp eyes and can see even the smallest details from a great distance.

Actually that's hawks. Eagles are known for crying in front of the American flag. Or soft rock.

see how it withers before my flower of justice

Last edited by Louise on Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:57 am

Ceres

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Neni wrote:

...Which is why they gave us immediate confirmation for a western release of the new game starring Phoenix, of course.

Hate to break it to you, but the Japanese gaming industry only regards it's international audience as an afterthought.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:15 pm

icer

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Neni wrote:

icer wrote:

Neni wrote:

The reason Apollo was suspended from Protagonist duty is because of how the Western Fanbase reacted to him, not the Japanese.

You seriously believe that? GS is only written with the JP marketing/sales in mind.

...Which is why they gave us immediate confirmation for a western release of the new game starring Phoenix, of course.

I read that as CAPCOM US IN DAMAGE CONTROL because everyone was posting everywhere we wouldn't get it due to GK2 and other recent Capcom cancellations in other franchises.

If Capcom JP gave a damn about Western markets we'd have GK2 for starters.

LOL parody sig trend. Phoenix/Maya Day is Sept 5!
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Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:06 pm

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Quote:

I read that as CAPCOM US IN DAMAGE CONTROL because everyone was posting everywhere we wouldn't get it due to GK2 and other recent Capcom cancellations in other franchises.

In my point of view, this is why Capcom NA confirmed GS5 for the West. But those are just my two cents.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:30 pm

beterbomen

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Has anyone considered the idea that the fluff thing on the silhouette's shoulder could just be long hair, rather than a boa? The thick part around the neck seems to ridgid for a feathery thing, and could just be a high collar. On the other hand, the bit around the shoulder seems to be flowing to much to be feathers. To me, it really looks like long hair or a ponytail, which would fit with the rest of the uncempt hairdo.
Again, this is just an idea. I wouldn't be surprised if it IS a boa, but I just thought to bring this possibility up.

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Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:33 pm

Neni

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Ceres wrote:

Hate to break it to you, but the Japanese gaming industry only regards it's international audience as an afterthought.

I dunno, I think they'll first and foremost think of how much money it will make, period. They are a money making business, after all. Not thinking of profit in general doesn't make a lot of sense in my opinion.

beterbomen wrote:

Has anyone considered the idea that the fluff thing on the silhouette's shoulder could just be long hair, rather than a boa? The thick part around the neck seems to ridgid for a feathery thing, and could just be a high collar. On the other hand, the bit around the shoulder seems to be flowing to much to be feathers. To me, it really looks like long hair or a ponytail, which would fit with the rest of the uncempt hairdo.
Again, this is just an idea. I wouldn't be surprised if it IS a boa, but I just thought to bring this possibility up.

That possibility is there, but I dunno. The shape seems weird for me, not really like hair. It could be anything... It's hard to tell.

icer wrote:

If Capcom JP gave a damn about Western markets we'd have GK2 for starters.

Conversely, I think that the very reason they didn't localize GK2 was because they were convinced it would *not* sell in the US, because the DS was at the end of its lifespan at the time.

...Because I felt the need to advertise my fanfic with a self-drawn, animated banner. Yes, I'm obsessed, why do you ask?

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:54 am

OvertheEdge

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I think I have a reason onto how Apollo could be the enemy of Phoenix.
After his fourth case, he was accused of forgery because of the bloody ace, so he was disbarred, and he knows that it was Phoenix's fault.
Obviously, he couldn't be a defense attorney again, but he thought that being a prosecutor could allow him to get his revenge.
So yeah, I don't have a good reason why he could become a prosecutor, but I think we can safely assume that something might have
happened with the bloody ace.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:48 am

Ropfa

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I'm really liking this theory. It would be a nice twist and would give some badly needed character development for poor Apollo.

But, as has been said before, this it almost TOO good for Capcom to actually do it. =/

Also, this: Pywright tutorial for beginners And this: Pokemon crossover case

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:35 pm

CatMuto

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OvertheEdge wrote:

I think I have a reason onto how Apollo could be the enemy of Phoenix.
After his fourth case, he was accused of forgery because of the bloody ace, so he was disbarred, and he knows that it was Phoenix's fault.

So Apollo would basically become an Expy of Phoenix.
Which he was at first, being a rookie defense attorney, but otherwise he was very different from Phoenix.

C-A

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:32 pm

Pierre

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OvertheEdge wrote:

I think I have a reason onto how Apollo could be the enemy of Phoenix.
After his fourth case, he was accused of forgery because of the bloody ace, so he was disbarred, and he knows that it was Phoenix's fault.
Obviously, he couldn't be a defense attorney again, but he thought that being a prosecutor could allow him to get his revenge.
So yeah, I don't have a good reason why he could become a prosecutor, but I think we can safely assume that something might have
happened with the bloody ace.

The bloody ace was never accepted as evidence though. Phoenix basically said "It's not the fact it exists as much as your reaction to it." regarding Kristoph. Since his reaction gave it away.

Apollo or Phoenix or anyone really could have picked it up and idly examined it without saying anything about it in the Courtroom and Kristoph would have still went "W-Where did you get that?!" and the jig would be up so to speak.

That's why I think the bloody ace incident went overlooked so much.
That or Phoenix took the flak for it.

However I don't think Apollo got disbarred for it, compare to when Phoenix gets disbarred, he gets shut-down mid trial the second they find out the evidence is forged but Kristoph's trial continues. If they considered it a proper violation and Apollo was going to be disbarred or feel some repercussions of the Ace then I'm pretty sure we'd have heard something before 4-4 hell they probably wouldn't let him defend for Wocky or Machi while they reviewed him.

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Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:58 pm

OvertheEdge

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That does seem to make sense, and I don't have any counter-arguments, so I guess that Apollo being a prosecutor due to that is kind of a long shot.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:23 am

TheBlarghMan

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If it's a returning face, I'd say it's most likely Edgeworth. The background of the mysterious character at the end of the trailer looks fairly similar to his posture in outlines of him in preceding games, and the quote that went with the picture of this mysterious person at the end of the trailer:

"The dark age of law has come...but I'll bring a turnabout..."

Seems much more like something Edgeworth would way than any of the other prosecutors we've come across. Franziska doesn't care about whether the law is in a good state of affairs or not so long as she wins, and it's not nearly rock-starish enough to be something Klavier would say.

Off Topic Quote(pertaining to the possibility of a deja vu case where Phoenix faces off against Klavier and presents forged evidence again...)

Quote:

No to the false evidence; we've already been through that, and we don't need another case like it. Nor will Nick be as naive as to accept evidence like that.

I do think that this would actually make for a rather interesting ending, if it was set up correctly.

Let's say that in the last case, Phoenix and Klavier face off in a case where Phoenix knows for a fact that his client is innocent. Somewhere, along the way, Phoenix picks up a forged piece of evidence, but, unlike the Magnifi Gramarye trial, realizes that its forged along the way(considering he's much older and wiser, perhaps as soon as he receives it).

The case proceeds to the point where Phoenix needs one last piece of evidence to show that his client is not guilty and prove the guilt of the real culprit, which the forged evidence would conveniently be. The final choice of the entire game comes down to whether or not the player chooses to present the forged evidence, hope Klavier doesn't pick up on it being faked, and get their client off(the obvious risk to this being that Klavier would notice it and Phoenix would lose his badge again), or not taking the chance that Klavier would notice it, making sure Phoenix keeps his badge, and settling for a guilty verdict for the client.

The latter would likely be the "bad ending" of the game. In the former, Klavier would simply stand silent and let the judge pass down his verdict while the real criminal would scream for Klavier to do something since the evidence shouldn't exist.

After the trial, Klavier would reveal that he knew the evidence was forged, but did nothing about it intentionally. Klavier would likely have realized somewhere before that Phoenix's client was not guilty, but continued to play along in hopes of getting the real criminal convicted.

(course, this doesn't really work well with jury trials and decisive evidence no longer being necessary, but hey. It would've made for a pretty cool tie in with the previous game, and an interesting moral dilemma).

"I can't go to hell, little weirdo. I'm all out of vacation days."

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:19 pm

beterbomen

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TheBlarghMan wrote:

Off Topic Quote(pertaining to the possibility of a deja vu case where Phoenix faces off against Klavier and presents forged evidence again...)

Quote:

No to the false evidence; we've already been through that, and we don't need another case like it. Nor will Nick be as naive as to accept evidence like that.

I do think that this would actually make for a rather interesting ending, if it was set up correctly.

Let's say that in the last case, Phoenix and Klavier face off in a case where Phoenix knows for a fact that his client is innocent. Somewhere, along the way, Phoenix picks up a forged piece of evidence, but, unlike the Magnifi Gramarye trial, realizes that its forged along the way(considering he's much older and wiser, perhaps as soon as he receives it).

The case proceeds to the point where Phoenix needs one last piece of evidence to show that his client is not guilty and prove the guilt of the real culprit, which the forged evidence would conveniently be. The final choice of the entire game comes down to whether or not the player chooses to present the forged evidence, hope Klavier doesn't pick up on it being faked, and get their client off(the obvious risk to this being that Klavier would notice it and Phoenix would lose his badge again), or not taking the chance that Klavier would notice it, making sure Phoenix keeps his badge, and settling for a guilty verdict for the client.

The latter would likely be the "bad ending" of the game. In the former, Klavier would simply stand silent and let the judge pass down his verdict while the real criminal would scream for Klavier to do something since the evidence shouldn't exist.

After the trial, Klavier would reveal that he knew the evidence was forged, but did nothing about it intentionally. Klavier would likely have realized somewhere before that Phoenix's client was not guilty, but continued to play along in hopes of getting the real criminal convicted.

(course, this doesn't really work well with jury trials and decisive evidence no longer being necessary, but hey. It would've made for a pretty cool tie in with the previous game, and an interesting moral dilemma).

Or, alternatively, the fact that it's forged could be the proof Phoenix needs somehow (not sure how that would go, though). It could be like this: The real criminal somehow set that piece of evidence up, in order to trick Phoenix into losing his badge again, but Phoenix spots it before (or while) he has a chance to present it. Later, the point comes up where Phoenix has to convince the jury who the real criminal is, and he presents the forged evidence as forged evidence.(again, I don't know how that would tie together yet)

Alternatively alternatively, Phoenix could just present the fake evidence, without saying anything to indicate wether it's real or false. The criminal would then call him out on it, and Phoenix would then admit that he knew the evidence was faked, but that he never intended to use it as real evidence, and only presented it to trick the criminal into making a statement.

Though these things have both been done already, really. :damon:

Serve the Story - that's one of my rules.
--------------
That wasn't an objection, honest! I was just pointing someone to the bus stop!

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:04 pm

TheBlarghMan

Doesn't scream into DS microphones.

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Quote:

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Why, thank you, good sir.

Quote:

Or, alternatively, the fact that it's forged could be the proof Phoenix needs somehow (not sure how that would go, though). It could be like this: The real criminal somehow set that piece of evidence up, in order to trick Phoenix into losing his badge again, but Phoenix spots it before (or while) he has a chance to present it. Later, the point comes up where Phoenix has to convince the jury who the real criminal is, and he presents the forged evidence as forged evidence.(again, I don't know how that would tie together yet)

That'd be pretty cool. It'd be pretty tough to tie that criminal down to making that specific forgery, though.

"I can't go to hell, little weirdo. I'm all out of vacation days."

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:59 pm

CatMuto

Gender: Female

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Quote:

or not taking the chance that Klavier would notice it, making sure Phoenix keeps his badge, and settling for a guilty verdict for the client.
The latter would likely be the "bad ending" of the game.

I dunno, it sounds more like that would fit the Good Ending more. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Phoenix would be very happy with an obviously innocent client landing in jail - but that's what an Appeal is for. I know that whole thing with Double Jeopardy, but anyone in the case (Defendant, the State or the Accessory Prosecutor) can demand an Appeal of a verdict. It would make a nice tie-in. Phoenix allows the Guilty verdict, but appeals and the ending (or in the next game) we can get the defendant off properly, without fake evidence.

Quote:

The final choice of the entire game comes down to whether or not the player chooses to present the forged evidence, hope Klavier doesn't pick up on it being faked, and get their client off(the obvious risk to this being that Klavier would notice it and Phoenix would lose his badge again)

This sounds bad to me.
Because it kind of sends the message "Phoenix didn't learn anything" and what the hell, this guy's badge was originally taken away because of forged evidence and now, after re-taking the bar exam, he flings forged evidence and gets away with it, like shoving a giant middle finger into the Jurisdiction's face? At least, that's what it would feel like to me.

C-A

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

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beterbomen wrote:

Or, alternatively, the fact that it's forged could be the proof Phoenix needs somehow (not sure how that would go, though). It could be like this: The real criminal somehow set that piece of evidence up, in order to trick Phoenix into losing his badge again, but Phoenix spots it before (or while) he has a chance to present it. Later, the point comes up where Phoenix has to convince the jury who the real criminal is, and he presents the forged evidence as forged evidence.(again, I don't know how that would tie together yet)

Alternatively alternatively, Phoenix could just present the fake evidence, without saying anything to indicate wether it's real or false. The criminal would then call him out on it, and Phoenix would then admit that he knew the evidence was faked, but that he never intended to use it as real evidence, and only presented it to trick the criminal into making a statement.

Though these things have both been done already, really. :damon:

I believe bringing in forged evidence isn't a bad idea. I just don't want rehashes like those. Nick has presented fake evidence as fake evidence before, and they've never been admitted by the court because of that. He only used them as strategies of attack for specific witnesses, whose testimonies become the proof. Thus, he was never questioned or up for disbarment then. It was later thanks to Kristoph and awful timing that got him off.

Given the overlying theme of the 5th game, forged evidence/testimonies/etc. can be easily expected. (I even predict Dark Payne could bring in something like that. So far, the evidence he holds has a margin of doubt around it.) Heck, in another case, someone might be able to sneak into the jury and pretend to be an "unbiased" juror "without any relation to the case"; maybe several if they're that good. (Now, that joke was played during the TGS 2010 GK2 stage show, where Lang brought lots of his voters. I imagine a related instance, but much more serious.) That'll bring in the jury and a new twist of suspense into the story.

But now, I round my argument back. How will Apollo fit in as a prosecutor in these cases? If anything, he'd be just as eager as Nick to break those overlooked loopholes in the law. The only way I see him as a prosecutor is if he suspected Nick to have done some forging himself (whether or not that's the case is up to speculation). Then, it'd be better that he was the protagonist again, not the vice versa, so we as the players can find out the truth ourselves, not look at Apollo like he's an idiot/jerk/whatever for not believing Nick. ~~Oh my, GK3 features a brand new prosecutor...?~~

And on a final note, Edgeworth will have a better role than simply being the rival prosecutor again. He's much too busy cutting someone's pay and trying to reform the police force so they can work better. It still feels like only the forensics department actually knows what they're doing.

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Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:44 pm

Real Anime Law

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Due to the scarf and feathers, I've been wondering if it's Kay. She'd be what, 24? Her dad was a prosecutor.

Neni wrote:

Since when have these games been an accurate protrayal of how law works? Kokone is an 18 years old Lawyer who studied two seperate, difficult fields of study and passed with flying colors, for crying out loud.

This. Law school is three years here in the States. Apollo doing it at age 22 is within the outer limits of plausibility. If he finished college in three years instead of four, he would've started college at 16. There was someone on my floor in college who started at 16. The fact that his first case was a murder trial was due to the fact that he worked for Kristoph Gavin. If he was Gavin's only lawyer employee, then he's the only choice Phoenix had. So that's plausible.

Franziska being a prosecutor at 13 is just a joke. Even if she finished college and law school in two years each, she would've had to start college at age nine. Even if she started practicing in China (where an undergraduate law major is enough to be a lawyer) and finished college in a year due to college credit in her country's equivalent of high school, she'd still have to have finished K-12 in about half the time of a normal student. It's impossible.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

beterbomen

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Real Anime Law wrote:

Due to the scarf and feathers, I've been wondering if it's Kay. She'd be what, 24? Her dad was a prosecutor.

Neni wrote:

Since when have these games been an accurate protrayal of how law works? Kokone is an 18 years old Lawyer who studied two seperate, difficult fields of study and passed with flying colors, for crying out loud.

This. Law school is three years here in the States. Apollo doing it at age 22 is within the outer limits of plausibility. If he finished college in three years instead of four, he would've started college at 16. There was someone on my floor in college who started at 16. The fact that his first case was a murder trial was due to the fact that he worked for Kristoph Gavin. If he was Gavin's only lawyer employee, then he's the only choice Phoenix had. So that's plausible.

Franziska being a prosecutor at 13 is just a joke. Even if she finished college and law school in two years each, she would've had to start college at age nine. Even if she started practicing in China (where an undergraduate law major is enough to be a lawyer) and finished college in a year due to college credit in her country's equivalent of high school, she'd still have to have finished K-12 in about half the time of a normal student. It's impossible.

You're forgetting that Franziska is a perfect student, not a normal student.

Serve the Story - that's one of my rules.
--------------
That wasn't an objection, honest! I was just pointing someone to the bus stop!

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:50 pm

Real Anime Law

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I suppose if someone Pearls' age started college, they'd deserve to be called perfect.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:20 pm

Mirii-chan

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If anyone it might be Edgey but I think having a new prosecutor would be more likely.

I personally hope there's no twist with Apollo. I never found him very interesting and I spent the whole of GS4 wishing Phoenix would be okay again. I'm not some hater, I'd like to see Apollo in the games again. It's just... I can't get excited for a game with him as a main point. He's just meaningless to me. That being said I can understand why people may like to see his character developed and I'm not saying this to be mean about other's favourite characters.

Also, I don't get why people have said GK2 wasn't very good. I think it's one of the most exciting instalments so far and I'm enjoying many of the characters. I found the plotlines interesting and the general theme of the game amazing. I loved finding out more about Edgey.

This is just my opinion though.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Real Anime Law

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GK2 looked better than the first GK to me.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:32 am

Mirii-chan

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Yeah, it was really good. I'm glad someone felt the same way. But I understand everyone has different feelings about it. I know some liked it, some didn't. The same with all the games.

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:31 pm

Real Anime Law

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As a fan, I'm very glad to be getting another Phoenix game. However, in-universe, I'm not sure he really deserves his badge back. In case 4-4, it seems like he used the Mason system to show evidence to the jury that had been deemed inadmissible in court, without letting Klavier respond to it.

Spoiler: 4-4

This seems consistent with how the other lawyers in the series seem to do what they think is right, rather than what the standards of the profession actually require. For example, Apollo

Spoiler: 4-3

I don't know how that would be viewed under Japan's civil law inquisitorial system (court is involved in investigating facts o the case), but under the American common law adverserial system (one side against the other), that would lead to disbarment.

Spoiler: 4-2

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:58 pm

Mirii-chan

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Quote:

As a fan, I'm very glad to be getting another Phoenix game. However, in-universe, I'm not sure he really deserves his badge back. In case 4-4, it seems like he used the Mason system to show evidence to the jury that had been deemed inadmissible in court, without letting Klavier respond to it.

I personally think the time of 4-4 was a time when Phoenix was desperately trying to prove his innocence, causing him to do some pretty shady stuff. I think he deserves to get his badge back because of the lengths he went to find the truth. I can see why he dabbled in illegal evidence, it was his only way out. Plus, he's Feenie! I could never be mad at him!

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:18 pm

CatMuto

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To be absolutely truthful, we can say that the majority of evidence Phoenix uses - whether it was prior to getting his badge removed or afterwards - could be counted as not admissible in court.
That Wire-Tape in April May's room of 1-2? He had no search warrant, he had no concrete proof that it had anything to do with the case - so it can't be taken in. And let's not forget that horrible faux pas in 2-4!
Apparently, taking in evidence that was just randomly brought in by an injured prosecutor, said evidence never having been logged or checked up on and was actually taken out from an accident scene, said accident involving a freshly fired Detective, yeah, that seems okay. But taking in a videotape that nobody has any idea of what is on it and somehow THAT is the evidence that proves everything? No, no, no, no! That tape needs to be looked at before it gets admitted into the records.

C-A

Re: Could the new Prosecutor be a familiar face...?

Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:28 pm

Mirii-chan

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Yeah, the Ace Attorney series has never really been a representation of the legal system. I really hope no one thinks that's how the law works. XD