What do you think of Dual Destinies? : Themis Legal Academy (GS5)

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:19 am

Bad Player

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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

Say, doesn't this stuff count as spoiler material and should be tagged? This thread isn't tagged for spoilers.

Oops, yeah, my bad :oops:

Guess I forgot that this thread isn't spoiler-marked between all the other spoiler-marked threads we've been debating in... :P Anyway, I've edited in spoiler tags to the last few posts.

Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:44 am

Miss All Sunday

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Alright, so I guess I'll post my tl; dr thoughts on the game. I'll reserve final judgment until after I play the DLC case, but right now I think Dual Destinies is tied with AA1 as my favorite in the series. (It might actually top AA1 if I don't include 1-5 - my personal favorite AA case - in the mix.) It definitely had some issues, but overall, they did not keep me from immensely enjoying the game.

Spoiler:

Those main issues being:

-The typos. Hoo boy. I know nearly virtually AA game has these, but it seemed particularly egregious at points in DD. Hopefully they'll release a patch or something to fix them, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

-Wasn't a huge fan of the cutscenes, either. I can get over the corny voices (this is AA, after all), but I dunno. I didn't really care overall, since I wasn't playing the game for the cutscenes haha. Outside of a few of the case introductions, though, I could have done without them.

-I thought the DURK AGE OF LURRR thing was pretty dumb, to be honest. It was weirdly implemented/explained in-game, and besides a prisoner being allowed to prosecute, we certainly didn't see much in DD that made the world "feel" any different than it was in other AA games. This has been talked about in other threads so I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I felt like they could have taken the phrase "dark age of the law" out of the script entirely and the game wouldn't have suffered for it.

That's about it, though. I thought nearly everything else about the game was fantastic, and it definitely hooked me more than any other Ace Attorney game has.

Spoilery good stuff and other random thoughts:

-DD has by far the best breakdowns in the series. Means changing from classical philosopher to Spartan warrior (by slicking his hair back) is one of the greatest pre-breakdown transformations ever. Cosmos' breakdown was also hilarious.

-To me, DD had more consistency in quality than past AA games. I enjoyed nearly all of the characters and cases in some way, and outside of 5-2's first trial day, the game didn't feel like it dragged too badly.

-5-5 was a 10/10 case for me right up until the very last part with the Phantom's reveal where he started pulling the masks off. I'm still divided on that. Part of me likes the mystique around the character and the idea of it all, and part of me wishes Fulbright had just been the spy without the multiple identities stuff. The Athena and Simon back story and the retrial of UR-1 was excellent, though. The use of the Mood Matrix here was also awesome.

-I was pleasantly surprised by some of the localized names: Hugh O'Conner (I bet they had fun coming up with that one/making it fit into the case), Yuri Cosmos, Sol Starbuck, Metis Cykes...

-The best voice acting in the cutscenes was from Payne and L'Belle. Everyone else kind of made me cringe. "Night night, Alderman. SWEET DREAMS!"

-I had no problem with the more streamlined investigations. The court segments have always been my favorite parts of the games anyway, and I thought we still got plenty of extra dialogue in the areas we could investigate. I can see how your mileage might vary here, though.

Now, even if you apologize...I will not forgive you.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:50 pm

TheBlarghMan

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Whoops, sorry about the spoilers. I completely forgot this was a spoiler needed thread.

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

Say, doesn't this stuff count as spoiler material and should be tagged? This thread isn't tagged for spoilers.

TheBlarghMan wrote:

In other words, my argument is essentially: Why does self preservation qualify as a weak motive in a series where people routinely kill and ruin others simply because of their own arrogance (Von Karma, Kristoph Gavin) or for merely reputation (Matt Engarde, Redd White) issues?

Spoiler:

Aw, shucks, I love calling out villain's motives. (If someone asks me for a few examples, I'll gladly answer, but this might not be the appropriate thread...)

Spoiler:

TheBlarghMan wrote:

Spoiler:

Oh, correction.

Spoiler:

Spoiler: And to answer your other points

Spoiler:

He certainly went to great lengths to clean up after himself, but a lot of that likely has to do with his paranoia. It's fairly clear that whatever country he worked for trained him in such a way that severely messed with his psychological make up, to the point where the only real emotion he ever truly felt was intense paranoia (as evidenced by the mood matrix segment). He was probably an incredibly skilled, incredibly intelligent person who's ultimate undoing was that one emotion he felt. And for a person that feels nothing but fear, with no better emotions to counteract that fear, that was probably enough to drive him to the point of doing insane things.

To some extent, the Phantom reminds me of someone telling a long string of lies. First there's an action of some sort, and then an action needed to cover up that action, and then another action to cover up said action, and then yet another action to cover up said action, etc. It gets to the point where he's just drawing attention to himself, but he's so paranoid of the possibility of being caught that he almost can't help himself.

That said, killing Metis (had he been able to get away with it; he almost certainly wasn't counting on her having shipped the report out already and definitely wasn't planning on Athena appear) probably would have ended up as a net plus for him in the long run. The government probably would have kept the information to themselves (considering how they kept him out of the HAT-1 story as well), and he was already being hunted by them. Meanwhile, he didn't know what information Metis had on him, and that information could potentially do massive harm to his identity.

This too, could have had something to do with his paranoia. Perhaps he actually had some idea as to what Metis' work was about, but went ahead with his plan anyway because the idea of someone having any bit of information on him drove his paranoia wild. There's plenty of plausible explanations.

Honestly, I find the Phantom to be one of the more interesting villains in the series, even if he isn't explained all that well. Someone with a severely messed up psychological profile that can perform extraordinary feats but is brought down in the end by common fear.

"I can't go to hell, little weirdo. I'm all out of vacation days."

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:18 pm

AdamW

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Spoiler: 5-4/5-5 plot

BTW, if we're going to talk REALISM realism, no, a spy would not go to almost any lengths to conceal their identity. Real spies do not go around killing people, that's not their job or their employers' job. Having your cover blown is kind of an operational hazard for a spy and something that's almost certainly going to happen eventually; intelligence agencies operate under the assumption that it's going to happen. Super-spies like the phantom who take on multiple identities and flit around from place to place spying on different people/agencies are not really a real thing at all. But hey, this is AA, reality realism is kind of way too high a standard; I think the level of suspension of disbelief required for 5-4/5-5's motives is not hideous (James Bond-ish super-spy must conceal their identity!), though the actual *plot* is a bit of a bigger stretch (surely there was an easier way to steal back the moon rock than setting up a bombing and guessing that the director would switch the launch pads so you could sneak in to a room you are now fairly sure will be occupied by astronauts, kill any inconvenient astronauts, grab the rock, and leap 20 feet from a moving room onto a rickety ladder all so you can pin the blame on someone you don't have anything personal against? Wouldn't it be easier to just, you know, slip in one night and steal it while no-one's around, like spies are supposed to do? Haven't we established that the space center doesn't have super high security any more, at least...until superspies start phoning in bomb threats?)

edit: er, and if you were actually going to manage to steal the rock, how the hell were you going to jump to the ladder?! did I forget miss something or was the phantom's 'true motive' really only supposed to be getting the rock back? I remember someone making a comment to the effect that he knew the director would switch the launch pads, implying that the bombing wasn't REALLY his aim in itself but just an elaborate ruse to get the launch pads switched...

edit 2: oh, right, the rock was locked away and so he needed the bombing to get someone to take it out of its case. still seems like an awfully elaborate ruse, but eh. and, um, if he didn't care about killing people, couldn't he just have bombed the space center and *not* warned anyone, blowing up the moon rock in the process?

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:24 pm

TheBlarghMan

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AdamW wrote:

Spoiler: 5-4/5-5 plot

BTW, if we're going to talk REALISM realism, no, a spy would not go to almost any lengths to conceal their identity. Real spies do not go around killing people, that's not their job or their employers' job. Having your cover blown is kind of an operational hazard for a spy and something that's almost certainly going to happen eventually; intelligence agencies operate under the assumption that it's going to happen. Super-spies like the phantom who take on multiple identities and flit around from place to place spying on different people/agencies are not really a real thing at all. But hey, this is AA, reality realism is kind of way too high a standard; I think the level of suspension of disbelief required for 5-4/5-5's motives is not hideous (James Bond-ish super-spy must conceal their identity!), though the actual *plot* is a bit of a bigger stretch (surely there was an easier way to steal back the moon rock than setting up a bombing and guessing that the director would switch the launch pads so you could sneak in to a room you are now fairly sure will be occupied by astronauts, kill any inconvenient astronauts, grab the rock, and leap 20 feet from a moving room onto a rickety ladder all so you can pin the blame on someone you don't have anything personal against? Wouldn't it be easier to just, you know, slip in one night and steal it while no-one's around, like spies are supposed to do? Haven't we established that the space center doesn't have super high security any more, at least...until superspies start phoning in bomb threats?)

edit: er, and if you were actually going to manage to steal the rock, how the hell were you going to jump to the ladder?! did I forget miss something or was the phantom's 'true motive' really only supposed to be getting the rock back? I remember someone making a comment to the effect that he knew the director would switch the launch pads, implying that the bombing wasn't REALLY his aim in itself but just an elaborate ruse to get the launch pads switched...

edit 2: oh, right, the rock was locked away and so he needed the bombing to get someone to take it out of its case. still seems like an awfully elaborate ruse, but eh. and, um, if he didn't care about killing people, couldn't he just have bombed the space center and *not* warned anyone, blowing up the moon rock in the process?

Spoiler:

"I can't go to hell, little weirdo. I'm all out of vacation days."

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:03 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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TheBlarghMan wrote:

AdamW wrote:

Spoiler: 5-4/5-5 plot

BTW, if we're going to talk REALISM realism, no, a spy would not go to almost any lengths to conceal their identity. Real spies do not go around killing people, that's not their job or their employers' job. Having your cover blown is kind of an operational hazard for a spy and something that's almost certainly going to happen eventually; intelligence agencies operate under the assumption that it's going to happen. Super-spies like the phantom who take on multiple identities and flit around from place to place spying on different people/agencies are not really a real thing at all. But hey, this is AA, reality realism is kind of way too high a standard; I think the level of suspension of disbelief required for 5-4/5-5's motives is not hideous (James Bond-ish super-spy must conceal their identity!), though the actual *plot* is a bit of a bigger stretch (surely there was an easier way to steal back the moon rock than setting up a bombing and guessing that the director would switch the launch pads so you could sneak in to a room you are now fairly sure will be occupied by astronauts, kill any inconvenient astronauts, grab the rock, and leap 20 feet from a moving room onto a rickety ladder all so you can pin the blame on someone you don't have anything personal against? Wouldn't it be easier to just, you know, slip in one night and steal it while no-one's around, like spies are supposed to do? Haven't we established that the space center doesn't have super high security any more, at least...until superspies start phoning in bomb threats?)

edit: er, and if you were actually going to manage to steal the rock, how the hell were you going to jump to the ladder?! did I forget miss something or was the phantom's 'true motive' really only supposed to be getting the rock back? I remember someone making a comment to the effect that he knew the director would switch the launch pads, implying that the bombing wasn't REALLY his aim in itself but just an elaborate ruse to get the launch pads switched...

edit 2: oh, right, the rock was locked away and so he needed the bombing to get someone to take it out of its case. still seems like an awfully elaborate ruse, but eh. and, um, if he didn't care about killing people, couldn't he just have bombed the space center and *not* warned anyone, blowing up the moon rock in the process?

Spoiler:

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
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My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:08 pm

TheBlarghMan

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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

TheBlarghMan wrote:

AdamW wrote:

Spoiler: 5-4/5-5 plot

BTW, if we're going to talk REALISM realism, no, a spy would not go to almost any lengths to conceal their identity. Real spies do not go around killing people, that's not their job or their employers' job. Having your cover blown is kind of an operational hazard for a spy and something that's almost certainly going to happen eventually; intelligence agencies operate under the assumption that it's going to happen. Super-spies like the phantom who take on multiple identities and flit around from place to place spying on different people/agencies are not really a real thing at all. But hey, this is AA, reality realism is kind of way too high a standard; I think the level of suspension of disbelief required for 5-4/5-5's motives is not hideous (James Bond-ish super-spy must conceal their identity!), though the actual *plot* is a bit of a bigger stretch (surely there was an easier way to steal back the moon rock than setting up a bombing and guessing that the director would switch the launch pads so you could sneak in to a room you are now fairly sure will be occupied by astronauts, kill any inconvenient astronauts, grab the rock, and leap 20 feet from a moving room onto a rickety ladder all so you can pin the blame on someone you don't have anything personal against? Wouldn't it be easier to just, you know, slip in one night and steal it while no-one's around, like spies are supposed to do? Haven't we established that the space center doesn't have super high security any more, at least...until superspies start phoning in bomb threats?)

edit: er, and if you were actually going to manage to steal the rock, how the hell were you going to jump to the ladder?! did I forget miss something or was the phantom's 'true motive' really only supposed to be getting the rock back? I remember someone making a comment to the effect that he knew the director would switch the launch pads, implying that the bombing wasn't REALLY his aim in itself but just an elaborate ruse to get the launch pads switched...

edit 2: oh, right, the rock was locked away and so he needed the bombing to get someone to take it out of its case. still seems like an awfully elaborate ruse, but eh. and, um, if he didn't care about killing people, couldn't he just have bombed the space center and *not* warned anyone, blowing up the moon rock in the process?

Spoiler:

"I can't go to hell, little weirdo. I'm all out of vacation days."

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:50 am

Scorchgid

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TheBlarghMan wrote:

Spoiler:

I was 17 when I joined this forum. During this time I participated in a thread that made light of sexual assault and event making jokes about it. I didn't think much of it at the time other than portraying a villain. I am older, looking back see how unacceptable & disgusting. I removed the comments because I do not wish to condone this behaviour. But of course fragments remain. I can only apologise for any hurt of distress caused.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/ https://www.samaritans.org/

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:31 am

TheBlarghMan

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Scorchgid wrote:

TheBlarghMan wrote:

Spoiler:

Exactly this.

"I can't go to hell, little weirdo. I'm all out of vacation days."

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:30 pm

Lord Seth

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I'll write up a more complete analysis later, but one thing that bugged the heck out of me was the lack of subtitles for the cut scenes.

This is a handheld game. Sometimes I (and I'm sure this is true for others) play it on the bus or in a noisy location. Requiring you to be able to hear what's going on (usually without any real warning) is extremely bothersome in those cases. And simple subtitles would've fixed all of it.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:26 am

jjaystar

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I absolutely enjoyed this game! It was so good to be playing a new PW game!!!

Spoiler:

Oh and something that stood out to me was the fact that

Spoiler:

I really liked the storyline and the characters and their designs and everything :edgey:

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:47 am

Blademaster_Orca

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Having played through the game three times now, I can say that the game is just as good as previous entries in the series. I enjoyed the characters, the plot twists were as ridiculous as ever, and the transition into 3D hasn't hurt the series in the slightest.

There are some negatives, however. The voice acting was fine for the most part, however...

Spoiler: character spoilers

Also, while I enjoyed the anime cutscenes, I wish they were a little more utilized in the story. There was barely anything they did that couldn't be explained with the still-frame style from previous games. At least they were nicely animated.

So overall, fantastic game. Can't wait to get the DLC case, too. Then I can try a fully chronological playthrough of the game.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:27 am

Pierre

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Blademaster_Orca wrote:

Having played through the game three times now, I can say that the game is just as good as previous entries in the series. I enjoyed the characters, the plot twists were as ridiculous as ever, and the transition into 3D hasn't hurt the series in the slightest.

There are some negatives, however. The voice acting was fine for the most part, however...

Spoiler: character spoilers

Also, while I enjoyed the anime cutscenes, I wish they were a little more utilized in the story. There was barely anything they did that couldn't be explained with the still-frame style from previous games. At least they were nicely animated.

So overall, fantastic game. Can't wait to get the DLC case, too. Then I can try a fully chronological playthrough of the game.

I didn't mind Edgeworth's voice, I kinda saw what they were going for with him. Nick's voice sounded too young but it's always been that way. Like I couldn't imagine AA4 Nick sounding like that so I'm not sure why AA5 Nick does.

Though I thought the cutscenes were quite nice, I really liked the one at the end of Case 2 though I'll say some seemed a little pointless.
(Did we really need a cutscene of Athena shouting "I'll prove your innocence" to a client?)

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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:16 pm

Coffee Prosecutor

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All I wanna say:
Really great game.

It had lots of emotionfilled moments for me, for different reasons.

But I'd but it second to best GS game in the series.

"The hammer that strikes too fast has no time to aim."

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:22 am

ashxu

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Well I finished it this morning (I mean at 5am) and I enjoyed the game but I think it doesn't stand that well against the original trilogy. Without ranting on, I feel the localization let the game down (Hnnng dubs) and the last/big case wasn't as thrilling as say the last case of Trials and Tribulations. The very last twist at the end of the game was good but it took way too long to build up to and it wasn't foreshadowed at all so it doesn't get points for building up tension.

The game was entertaining but as a member of the overall series, I feel this wasn't as great.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:52 pm

Pierre

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ashxu wrote:

Well I finished it this morning (I mean at 5am) and I enjoyed the game but I think it doesn't stand that well against the original trilogy. Without ranting on, I feel the localization let the game down (Hnnng dubs) and the last/big case wasn't as thrilling as say the last case of Trials and Tribulations. The very last twist at the end of the game was good but it took way too long to build up to and it wasn't foreshadowed at all so it doesn't get points for building up tension.

The game was entertaining but as a member of the overall series, I feel this wasn't as great.

Yeah but the lack of tension from no foreshadowing (though there is some very minor clever foreshadowing) is what makes the twist so surprising.

Made by Chesu+Zombee

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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:01 pm

Coffee Prosecutor

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Pierre wrote:

ashxu wrote:

Well I finished it this morning (I mean at 5am) and I enjoyed the game but I think it doesn't stand that well against the original trilogy. Without ranting on, I feel the localization let the game down (Hnnng dubs) and the last/big case wasn't as thrilling as say the last case of Trials and Tribulations. The very last twist at the end of the game was good but it took way too long to build up to and it wasn't foreshadowed at all so it doesn't get points for building up tension.

The game was entertaining but as a member of the overall series, I feel this wasn't as great.

Yeah but the lack of tension from no foreshadowing (though there is some very minor clever foreshadowing) is what makes the twist so surprising.

Yeah, getting an all new villain in the last 30 minutes really made your jaw drop.

At least I was like: "No, shit can't be real, please give me a penalty instead...!"

"The hammer that strikes too fast has no time to aim."

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:36 pm

jjaystar

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Coffee Prosecutor wrote:

Yeah, getting an all new villain in the last 30 minutes really made your jaw drop.

At least I was like: "No, shit can't be real, please give me a penalty instead...!"

I reacted in the exact same way!!!

Spoiler:

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:47 pm

Nii

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jjaystar wrote:

Coffee Prosecutor wrote:

Yeah, getting an all new villain in the last 30 minutes really made your jaw drop.

At least I was like: "No, shit can't be real, please give me a penalty instead...!"

I reacted in the exact same way!!!

Spoiler:

Fanart | deviantART

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:52 pm

Katana

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So, now that we've pinned that final killer to the wall, I have to question; who was the more insane villain...who just didn't care who they hurt, and did anything to achieve their means?

Spoiler: DD, and Ghost Trick

I'm gone for so long, and the colors got all psychedelic! Woohoo!

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:24 pm

Miss All Sunday

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Pierre wrote:

Though I thought the cutscenes were quite nice, I really liked the one at the end of Case 2 though I'll say some seemed a little pointless.
(Did we really need a cutscene of Athena shouting "I'll prove your innocence" to a client?)

Agreed. I didn't mind the case opener/case closer cutscenes for the most part, but most of the ones in the middle of the cases just felt...I dunno, tacked on.

Now, even if you apologize...I will not forgive you.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:31 pm

linkenski

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Katana wrote:

So, now that we've pinned that final killer to the wall, I have to question; who was the more insane villain...who just didn't care who they hurt, and did anything to achieve their means?

Spoiler: DD, and Ghost Trick

Yomiel, because I cared much more about those he hurt than those of Phantom's. I also liked that Yomiel was doing what he did on his own accord and not by someone else's will and overall I felt like Yomiel's prescence was much more ominous and convincing than Phantom's whose identity only became relevant in the last few cases.

I think the big difference is that, even if both are introduced late, you're constantly trying to uncover a bigger mystery and it's as if you're constantly looking for Yomiel even before you know him, whereas with the Phantom you're only start looking for him from case 4 and 5. Ghost Trick had no "filler" so Yomiel feels more powerful as an evil IMO.

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:37 am

Belldandy07

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(WARNING: MAJOR DUAL DESTINIES SPOILERS. Proceed with caution.)

———————————-

I think many of us Ace Attorney fans can agree: Dual Destinies is an awesome game, which builds a powerful foundation for the future of the series. Whatever your reviews on the storyline and gameplay aspects are, many of us know that Dual Destinies is a knockout game.

But it fails miserably in one area: Clay Terran.

Cases 4 and 5 focus very little on Clay, and Apollo losing him. Case 4 is cut a lot more slack, considering it does focus on Solomon Starbuck and how he was framed for Clay’s death. Case 5 has excruciatingly little focus on Clay, other than Apollo saying ‘we have to catch Clay’s killer’. It was pretty much a foot note, like ‘oh yeah, btw, let’s kinda sorta catch the dude that killed my bff’. 98% of Case 5’s focus was on Athena and the events of seven years ago.

So my Case 5 summary: LET’S GO GUYS LET’S PROVE ATHENA INNOCENT! LET’S SAVE BLACKQUILL! (brofist pump) and oh yeah, let’s kinda sorta catch the guy that killed mr terran

Post Case 5 summary: YAY WE SAVED ATHENA AND BLACKQUILL LET’S EAT ON MR.WRIGHT’S TAB (with apollo making one of the lead remarks, completely and utterly blissful, even after losing his childhood bff)

Apollo throwing off Clay’s jacket pretty much said ‘oh well, moving on, time to finish the case’. If he was going to recover with lightning speed, he at least should’ve kept the jacket.

Apollo, despite going through divine character development, recovered from his best friend’s death incredibly quickly. I’d be more understanding if he got ‘we’re here for you, Apollo, let’s avenge Clay’ from Phoenix or Athena, but all of the Sailor Moon/friendship-y therapy went to Athena. Even with all of the trauma Apollo endured, Phoenix's sole focus remained on saving poor, traumatized Athena, and Blackquill. Case 5 was pretty much about Athena and her cheerleaders, even though Polly had returned from investigating his best friend's death.

In the end, Dual Destinies really didn’t need Clay. Athena could’ve just been found guilty of the events that occurred seven years ago, and Apollo could’ve just been upset over his co-worker/friend being found guilty of those events. Especially since the game already had so much focus on Athena. Something from the past could’ve popped up in the present, leading to Athena’s arrest.

And don’t get me wrong. I adore Clay Terran. Apollo’s my favorite Ace Attorney character, thanks to Dual Destinies.

But Clay ended up with ‘Desmond Miles Syndrome’: ultimately mistreated.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:32 am

JSR_GUMMY

.: Hyperactive ecstasy dreamer :.

Gender: Female

Location: The Slums of Midgar

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:16 am

Posts: 45

Dual Destinies brought back my passion of playing the Ace Attorney series all over again :D

Spoiler:

.: Innocentfate's Deviantart :.

:.Ask me anything.:

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:47 pm

Coffee Prosecutor

The Twisted Samurai

Gender: Male

Location: Wherever I may roam.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:05 pm

Posts: 4848

JSR_GUMMY wrote:

:shoe: Dual Destinies brought back my passion of playing the Ace Attorney series all over again :D

Spoiler:

"The hammer that strikes too fast has no time to aim."

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:17 pm

tvmadykid

Gender: Male

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:18 pm

Posts: 46

I absolutely loved AA5, It had all of the ingredients that make me love the series. However I have very minor complaints.

Spoiler:

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:07 pm

linkenski

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1637

Belldandy07 wrote:

TL;DR Clay Terran got the "Desmond Miles Syndrome" treatment (Assassin's Creed reference)

I also think it's fair to say that due to the characters concentrating so much on Athena and Blackquill when A) Apollo lost his best friend and B) Phoenix's daughter might be taken away from him forever (pretty dramatized though) that there's kind of a lack of... empathy, in the narrative? Dunno if there's a better word for it but it just feels pretty inhumane for Apollo and Phoenix to be so ignorant of the people they love.

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:53 pm

Blizdi

Mia Payne

Gender: Male

Location: Winning All My God Damn Cases

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:11 am

Posts: 1356

linkenski wrote:

Belldandy07 wrote:

TL;DR Clay Terran got the "Desmond Miles Syndrome" treatment (Assassin's Creed reference)

I also think it's fair to say that due to the characters concentrating so much on Athena and Blackquill when A) Apollo lost his best friend and B) Phoenix's daughter might be taken away from him forever (pretty dramatized though) that there's kind of a lack of... empathy, in the narrative? Dunno if there's a better word for it but it just feels pretty inhumane for Apollo and Phoenix to be so ignorant of the people they love.

If you didn't see empathy in Apollo's caring for Clay... you must be blind

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:21 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

Belldandy07 wrote:

Cases 4 and 5 focus very little on Clay, and Apollo losing him. Case 4 is cut a lot more slack, considering it does focus on Solomon Starbuck and how he was framed for Clay’s death. Case 5 has excruciatingly little focus on Clay, other than Apollo saying ‘we have to catch Clay’s killer’. It was pretty much a foot note, like ‘oh yeah, btw, let’s kinda sorta catch the dude that killed my bff’. 98% of Case 5’s focus was on Athena and the events of seven years ago.

Well, Clay is just an unfortunate soul in the whole premise of things, and since he's dead, there's nothing else to do but investigate into his murder. The only loose ends that needed immediate attention were Trucy's, Athena's and Blackquill's situations. Since the only way Phoenix could save them all was through the retrial of that case, he'd have all the more reasons to go through with it.

Quote:

Apollo throwing off Clay’s jacket pretty much said ‘oh well, moving on, time to finish the case’. If he was going to recover with lightning speed, he at least should’ve kept the jacket.

He should have left it on the sofa, so people wouldn't step on it and get it dirty. Silly shonen heroes and their odd desires to tear off clothing like it's nothing.

Quote:

Apollo, despite going through divine character development, recovered from his best friend’s death incredibly quickly.

I think it does Apollo's character more redemption to become cool-headed, rather than stay as his usual hot-headed self. It shows a completely different side to a person that used to be named "Red-tempered Phoenix 2.0". (Wait, that makes him sound cool.) He didn't lose anyone precious during his own game, but Phoenix did in his first. That's what really separated him and Phoenix just by their first appearances.

Besides, I don't think we saw Phoenix crying over Mia's body. He went straight into business... like a boss.

Quote:

In the end, Dual Destinies really didn’t need Clay. Athena could’ve just been found guilty of the events that occurred seven years ago, and Apollo could’ve just been upset over his co-worker/friend being found guilty of those events. Especially since the game already had so much focus on Athena. Something from the past could’ve popped up in the present, leading to Athena’s arrest.

But the story needed a character that both Apollo and Athena can closely relate to, beyond just what good times these two shared since the few months prior. They were friendly, but not as close as childhood friends. This incident serves a good reason why Apollo would bother leaving the team, and why this particular incident would affect everyone so personally.

...Besides, if these guys start pampering Apollo, something's definitely wrong with the world.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:38 am

TheBlarghMan

Doesn't scream into DS microphones.

Gender: Male

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:23 am

Posts: 281

Spoiler: Case 4 and 5

"I can't go to hell, little weirdo. I'm all out of vacation days."

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:23 am

jjaystar

All shall bow before the mighty Godog!!!

Gender: Female

Location: Canada

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:55 am

Posts: 146

tvmadykid wrote:

Spoiler:

I agree with you there. I was hoping for the smallest glimmer of recognition of the fact

Spoiler:

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:06 am

Miss All Sunday

Ultimate Survivor

Gender: Female

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Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:07 pm

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Spoiler: Endgame spoilers

Now, even if you apologize...I will not forgive you.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:19 am

MaimJay

Gender: Female

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:07 am

Posts: 568

Time for a long post about how I feel about Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies. Overall I absolutely LOVED the game! I only have some grievances, but other than that this game was exceptionally ace!

Spoiler: Game Mechanics

PROS
- I loved the addition of the cutscenes!
- Although I never needed it, I was very happy with the addition of the 'Notes' and the 'Consult' features.
-- The notes are great to have if you ever took a long break between playing the game, or if you get a little lost during investigation. I know that for previous games, if I wanted to pick up a case where I left it off __ months/years ago, I'd probably have to quickly look at a walkthrough or run around madly just to see what I've already done.
-- The Consult is really good if you get stuck during a trial, and makes it so you don't have to make a mad dash to the computer to find out what to do next. Not only is this something I would have liked in the previous games when I was younger, but it helps new players who may not be used to the type of game Ace Attorney is.
- The 3D mechanics were well done! And the 3D modelling! I loved it, even though it meant no more sprite sheets ;___;
- The fact that there is two save slots, and that you don't have to quit the game when you want to save. Kind of minor, but it was the first thing I noticed and I nearly screamed with joy about it (you don't understand how long I've wanted this in an AA game...)
- Another minor thing, but the fact that when you finished a case, you had the choice to go back to the main title or to continue right to the next case (well you had this choice ever time you saved, but I still dig it.)
- The camera doesn't just stay still for the wide shot of the court room, it goes back and forth. Without diving too much into the plot, it would also change and react depending on what the characters were doing.
- When you were at locations, the screen doesn't just move to the right or up and down, it actually adjusts the scenery to make it look as if it was a character tilting their head up and down vs. moving a camera up and down. The scenery also moves and actions can happen in the background (characters moving/doing things).
- When investigating, you can move in a sort of big circle. No longer are you confined to one plane, but many more (I guess another play with the whole '3D' mechanic- I'm glad to see good things are coming from this!)
- When you're investigating, after you've examined something when you hover over it again it shows a check mark on the hand. This was probably the most useful thing ever oh my god bless the person who thought of this.
- You not only get to use Athena's ability, but Apollo and Phoenix's too! That's one of the things I was worried about, not being able to use the awesome abilities that were introduced in the previous games.
- Yes I like Athena's ability ~~and yes I like how you don't get penalized if you're wrong with it.~~
CONS
- You can't just examine any location anymore, only certain locations when you're prompted. I guess this streamlines, but I miss the flexibility to examine extra locations?
- The game kind of ushers you along sometimes. You'll be somewhere, and you'll see the 'oh we have to go ___ now' and the game will just take you there. Other times it doesn't do that, so it's not consistent either. Bringing you to the location can speed things up, but at times it felt more like a interactive novel vs. a game.
- Soooooo maaaaaaannyyy typooooooooos.
- Klavier's voice was terrible, and Edgeworth's wasn't the greatest either.
- You couldn't examine evidence like in AJ:AA. I actually really liked that mechanic, but we only got to do it once in the game. It felt like a massive thing to miss out on.
- This may be just for me since I've played all the other AA games multiple times, but this one felt much easier than the rest. I still had fun, and I didn't see everything coming, but whenever it would come time to present something, whoever was lawyering would heavily hint at what to use, or after the testimony someone would make a comment on something that was said that would point to what you would have to do / present. However, this may just be my case. I personally felt it was a little too easy (this is not including the 'notes' and 'consult' options, I didn't use those. In fact, having those in the game should encourage it to be more difficult should it not? Or maybe they did it on purpose so it would be better for newer players?)
- I would have liked the option to have the cutscenes in japanese with english subtitles, and just be able to put on subtitles anyway!

Spoiler: Case One

Spoiler: Case Two

Spoiler: Case Three

Spoiler: Case Four

Spoiler: Case Five

So this kind of turned from 'List the good things and bad in an argumentative form' to 'well here's the things I can think of right now I gotta finish this up before I go to bed damn it.' so yeeeeeahhh. I'll probably post more in detail about other things that I liked/disliked but for now here's the general review.

Yes I love this game and yes I hope it doesn't take another six years for another one to be released.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:25 am

Miss All Sunday

Ultimate Survivor

Gender: Female

Location: Virginia

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:07 pm

Posts: 163

MaimJay wrote:

Time for a long post about how I feel about Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies. Overall I absolutely LOVED the game! I only have some grievances, but other than that this game was exceptionally ace!

Spoiler:

I think it was because

Spoiler:

Now, even if you apologize...I will not forgive you.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:29 am

MaimJay

Gender: Female

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:07 am

Posts: 568

emimprov wrote:

MaimJay wrote:

Time for a long post about how I feel about Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies. Overall I absolutely LOVED the game! I only have some grievances, but other than that this game was exceptionally ace!

Spoiler:

I think it was because

Spoiler:

Hmm, yeah that's a valid point. Still, am I crazy to think that they brought that out and then kind of pushed it to the side? I don't know...

Spoiler: case 5

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:45 am

Pierre

Gettin' Old!

Gender: Male

Location: Scotland

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14363

emimprov wrote:

MaimJay wrote:

Time for a long post about how I feel about Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies. Overall I absolutely LOVED the game! I only have some grievances, but other than that this game was exceptionally ace!

Spoiler:

I think it was because

Spoiler:

It's totally because

Spoiler:

Though both your reasons seem viable.

Made by Chesu+Zombee

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:28 pm

Bad Player

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6932

Pierre wrote:

Spoiler:

It's totally this one.

Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:25 pm

Miss All Sunday

Ultimate Survivor

Gender: Female

Location: Virginia

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:07 pm

Posts: 163

Pierre wrote:

It's totally because

Spoiler:

Though both your reasons seem viable.

Lol, now my explanation just feels dull in comparison.

Now, even if you apologize...I will not forgive you.

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:13 pm

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

Was I the only one who found Apollo's smile scary? I mean, he occasionally opened his eyes as if he were making sure we found whatever it was we were talking about just as fun as he did.

Also, everyone speaks in dots. I would say ellipses, but an ellipsis only includes three dots. Maybe the ellipses have ellipses or something...

Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:22 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

Pierre wrote:

It's totally because

Spoiler:

Silly Pierre.

Spoiler:

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com