Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Pierre wrote:
And I play the game without any real knowledge of it and didn't see them at all.
Perhaps it's a priming effect. People before they play have some things highlighted and pointed out and are told it's sexual subtext or see yaoi pictures beforehand and approve of the relationship.
Then they go into the game expecting to see things.
Oh, I admit I was primed as hell. Well, okay, I didn't take it 100% seriously, but you have to admit there is a lot of subtext in there.
Of course, if we went by subtext alone, a lot of characters would be canon bi.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Cravat of Doom wrote:
With some, I imagine. But I'd be hesitant to say that's what usually happens. What bothers me is a seemingly constant need to justify why someone ships a slash pairing-- "I think these guys have romantic subtext" never seems to work for people like it does with straight ships. For me, that's why I ship it. Because I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. I don't mean possible to happen in the game (it won't), but possible as in seeing, IMO, they have enough of a base to start a relationship. Whether or not it's 'hot' is just a bonus and I had no idea slash was even a thing until I was into the second game and saw fan art online.
I agree with that.
When I ask people why they ship certain characters... like, say, Kratos and Refill from Tales of Symphonia, they give pretty weak arguments like, "They're both the oldest" or "Both are very levelheaded" which... I guess can be an argument, but not one that would 'count' for much.
That's like saying I ship two people because their eye colors fit nicely together. I mean, I'm not a fan of certain pairings, whether they are canon or not. But I do draw them together. Why? Mostly because I think they give a nice image, like Ron and Dahlia together - I think they'd make a nice image together in a picture, but people seem to think, if you draw two people together, you ship them.
And I agree with Adrian in Black, looking at subtext - or even supertext - in the game and using that as basis, practically every single character in the game would be gay or bi.
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Adrian in black wrote:
Pierre wrote:
And I play the game without any real knowledge of it and didn't see them at all.
Perhaps it's a priming effect. People before they play have some things highlighted and pointed out and are told it's sexual subtext or see yaoi pictures beforehand and approve of the relationship.
Then they go into the game expecting to see things.
Oh, I admit I was primed as hell. Well, okay, I didn't take it 100% seriously, but you have to admit there is a lot of subtext in there.
Of course, if we went by subtext alone, a lot of characters would be canon bi.
Err...no I can't admit there was much subtext at all....I think I joined here...either after playing AJ or T&T and this was the first place I'd heard it be suggested that Phoenix and Edgeworth as a gay pairing. I hadn't really thought of them as sexual characters at all (well except at the end of the series when they confirmed Phoenix was with Iris once upon a time) at the time so I heard a lot of pairings from other people here.
Probably individual differences as well depending how much people read into subtext but I also feel the area of subtext is heavily subjective.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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That being said. Yeah, I don't like Phoenix/Maya much. Aside from the gut feeling that vehemently doesn't want me shipping them, I don't particularly appreciate the gap in age between them. Yeah, Gumshoe/Maggey has a bigger age gap, but I didn't say I liked that part of the pairing, either, did I? Plus, Nick and Maya seem like siblings to me.
I'm not much of a slash fan to begin with, so understandably, I'm not a Phoenix/Edgeworth shipper. Oddly enough, though, I do sort of like that pairing; it's cute and amusing, and I found the subtext of my own accord. Heck, it's the only yaoi pairing I was ever willing to read and write for... Until I ran across a certain fanfiction (whose name I can't remember for the life of me) and realized about 90% of it applied to me about my best friend. My very much platonic best friend. ... I think. Well, I can't say it can't happen, as I'm pretty sure we're both straight and are of opposite gender... But still! That was really just too close for comfort, so I got turned off to P/E.
So I finally grew a brain and remembered to give myself a signature... Whoopee.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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/ 
because to me, they're two of the least compatible people in the games. Maya wouldn't want to be with someone so serious and non-believing (of her mystical powers). Edgeworth, conversely, would want someone closer to his stage in life with similar interests. That's part of why I think / 
works so well and why / 
wouldn't be too far off from the realm of possibility either. To me, if he was paired with a Fey, Mia would work so much better. I think Edgeworth would want a partner who also works in the legal system because they would understand him and his past much better. Maya, in the end, is still just a kid. A mature kid, but still a kid.I'm also not a fan of
/ 
for even more of what I said above. I don't think Kay really understands him or even respects him all that much. She's even less mature than Maya and...to be frank, I don't see even a sliver of reason why that pairing could work. They're two characters that interact, that's about it.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Chloe wrote:
Got a topic for you all to debate on: Why do you think crack pairings so appealing in this fandom?
I don't see why crack pairings are supposed to be so appealing only to this fandom. There are tons of crack pairings in all kinds of anime, manga, videogames and other franchises.
As for why they may be appealing, it's simply fulfilling a fantasy of theirs. Maybe they think that the crack pairing could work out, under certain circumstances. Downside of those circumstances is that it's very likely that the characters will be acting out of their established characters, ruining the mood of the scene or believeability.
Unless it's made to be a hilarious WTF scenario to begin with.
Then OoC and hilarity would work just fine.
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CatMuto wrote:
Chloe wrote:
Got a topic for you all to debate on: Why do you think crack pairings so appealing in this fandom?
I don't see why crack pairings are supposed to be so appealing only to this fandom. There are tons of crack pairings in all kinds of anime, manga, videogames and other franchises.
As for why they may be appealing, it's simply fulfilling a fantasy of theirs. Maybe they think that the crack pairing could work out, under certain circumstances. Downside of those circumstances is that it's very likely that the characters will be acting out of their established characters, ruining the mood of the scene or believeability.
Unless it's made to be a hilarious WTF scenario to begin with.
Then OoC and hilarity would work just fine.
C-A
I dunno, last I heard Phoenix Wright had the biggest kink meme (whatever that is) out there. I think we might be exceptional in that case.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Pierre wrote:
I dunno, last I heard Phoenix Wright had the biggest kink meme (whatever that is) out there. I think we might be exceptional in that case.
Kink does not necessarily mean crack pairings... AA having tons of kink memes seems understandable seeing as how, as I see the game, all the guys are gay and the women are separated into category "(closet) lesbian" and "barking up the wrong tree".
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
I dunno, last I heard Phoenix Wright had the biggest kink meme (whatever that is) out there. I think we might be exceptional in that case.
Kink does not necessarily mean crack pairings... AA having tons of kink memes seems understandable seeing as how, as I see the game, all the guys are gay and the women are separated into category "(closet) lesbian" and "barking up the wrong tree".
C-A
Well I always thought it was because AA has an extremely... "colorful" cast of characters and honestly, anything is possible. That's what I reckon is one of AA's main strengths, that there are so many goofy and downright interesting crack pairing possibilities. And as CatMuto stated, everyone is somewhat sexually ambiguous (which more than doubles the possibilities)
Oh and yeah, the kink meme plays a huuuuuuge role in encouraging crack. I sometimes give it a little squizzy every now and then and good God there's just about every possible pairing in there...
I think the worst I've personally come across would have to be
/ 
...
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
I dunno, last I heard Phoenix Wright had the biggest kink meme (whatever that is) out there. I think we might be exceptional in that case.
Kink does not necessarily mean crack pairings... AA having tons of kink memes seems understandable seeing as how, as I see the game, all the guys are gay and the women are separated into category "(closet) lesbian" and "barking up the wrong tree".
C-A
Yeah, last time I looked at least half the Kink Meme is P/E stories, and a large chunk of Klavier/Apollo.
Part of the reason there are so many crack pairings is there are so many characters in the franchise to start with. And they are given superficial characterisation (eg. enough they are characters, not enough to rope them into a specific limitation).
Also the canon doesn't really 'conclusively prove' anybody's orientation in any direction (except maybe the people who are married, which are few) so people can just play with the idea they're all bisexual. And the only non-debatable 'canon pairing' is really Ron/Dessie (or the other people who got married, who have mostly died and things).
Despite all this there are better supporting arguments for the reading of some pairings than others.
9mayasato9 wrote:
I, for one, mostly ship Gumshoe/Maggey, Ron/Desiree, Diego/Mia, and Phoenix/Iris because they've already been confirmed as canon (even if Phoenix/Iris is already broken up).
Only Ron/Desiree is 'confirmed canon'. The others can be interpreted as one sided attraction, not requited couples, and other ambiguities.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Quote:
Only Ron/Desiree is 'confirmed canon'. The others can be interpreted as one sided attraction, not requited couples, and other ambiguities.
Hmm..yeah but you really have to look hard to interpret that about some of them.
Not that I care for most of those but I'd always thought "Gumshoe/Maggey" was adorable
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Pierre wrote:
Quote:
Only Ron/Desiree is 'confirmed canon'. The others can be interpreted as one sided attraction, not requited couples, and other ambiguities.
Hmm..yeah but you really have to look hard to interpret that about some of them.
Uh... not really. Just because Grossberg refers to Diego as Mia's boyfriend in one case, does not automatically mean that they were a couple. And just because she didn't correct him in any way, doesn't mean that they were a couple, either. I know from experience, after a while, being asked or seen over and over as "Hey are you two together?" it's much easier and less frustarting to just ignore such statements.
Iris and Phoenix, despite being canon at one point - although not really, since Phoenix thought he was dating someone entirely different - is not canon anymore. They broke up, they haven't seen each other in half a decade and they (should) realize that the relationship they had in college was technically built on lies. (I'm not saying they can't get together again, just that it's gonna be difficult to pull off and take time - and as of AJ/DD, nothing happens anymore)
Gumshoe/Maggey is... well, Gumshoe obviously likes Maggey, but as for her? Don't know, nothing confirmed on her side. She might see him as just a good friend and/or mentor.
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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My memory is fuzzy but I felt there was a line or action Maggey did that showed the feelings were reciprocated but I ain't gonna argue it. Just thought that one was canon.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Spoiler:
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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JSR_GUMMY wrote:
All I can say is...
Spoiler:
Well each their own... but I don't think you can label loyalty instantly as love, or as a good foundation for love...
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CatMuto wrote:
JSR_GUMMY wrote:
All I can say is...
Spoiler:
Well each their own... but I don't think you can label loyalty instantly as love, or as a good foundation for love...
C-A
Granted they are both legal but the age-gap is too weird for me.
Spoiler: Case 5-5
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Pierre wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
JSR_GUMMY wrote:
All I can say is...
Spoiler:
Well each their own... but I don't think you can label loyalty instantly as love, or as a good foundation for love...
C-A
Granted they are both legal but the age-gap is too weird for me.
Spoiler: Case 5-5
Ah, that's true.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Pierre wrote:
My memory is fuzzy but I felt there was a line or action Maggey did that showed the feelings were reciprocated but I ain't gonna argue it. Just thought that one was canon.
Well if the is one, quote it, but I certainly don't remember it.
All that happens is they made up after Maggey claimed she HATED him, and she ate the lunch after rejecting them before. That just meant they were on speaking terms again, not they were in Reciprocated True Love. There's a case they're 'friend's but that's it. (Besides, I always thought the cliche was that the girl gives the boy she likes a lunch in those JP mangas, although I'm hazy on that... but it clearly means any interest is from Gumshoe's end not Maggey's otherwise she'd give him a lunch, and they inverted the cliche just to show this)
Do remember that in 2-1 the court claimed that Dustin was Maggey's boyfriend, but to Phoenix later she even admits he wasn't really her boyfriend just a friend. Just because Gumshoe has a crush doesn't mean anything romantic from her end.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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icer wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Do remember that in 2-1 the court claimed that Dustin was Maggey's boyfriend, but to Phoenix later she even admits he wasn't really her boyfriend just a friend.
She does? How does she say it?
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GoingforMiles wrote:
icer wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Do remember that in 2-1 the court claimed that Dustin was Maggey's boyfriend, but to Phoenix later she even admits he wasn't really her boyfriend just a friend.
She does? How does she say it?
In the beginning of the Trial, when talking about the victim.
Phoenix: A policeman? You did WHAT to a policeman!?
Byrde: It wasn't me!
And besides, Dustin and I...
We weren't "lovers" like that!
And later, towards the end...
Byrde: That glove didn't even have any sort of special meaning.
It was just a present to say thanks for covering one of my night shifts.
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Pierre wrote:
Hmm was there anything in that AAI case 1 for Maggey and Gumshoe? It's the latest time they interacted after that case.
There is Gumshoe falsely confessing to the murder in an admittedly stupid attempt to keep suspicion from falling on Maggey.
Slice that however you want to.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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sumguy28 wrote:
There is Gumshoe falsely confessing to the murder in an admittedly stupid attempt to keep suspicion from falling on Maggey.
Slice that however you want to.
Slice that however you want to.
It's still one sided though. Gumshoe having a crush on Maggey is pretty canon, any 'romantic' reciprocation still isn't.
NinjaMonkey wrote:
I used to ship Apollo X Vera, but after playing DD, I don't anymore.
Why not?
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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GoingforMiles wrote:
Lamiroir x Furio Tigre - or should I say LamiROAAAAAAAR
Since this is a debate thread, I'll ask what makes you think those two would work as a couple or why you ship them that way.
C-A
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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GoingforMiles wrote:
Okay, I said it just to be able to make that lame joke, but now I'll just have to roll with it. Imagine them together on a pink scooter, away they go in the sunset to the tunes of "Guitar's serenade".
I... need a drink. This is what nightmares are made of. I will get paranoid every time I hear the sound of a scooter.
Gimme a "P"! Gimme an "I"! Give me a "P" and an "E"! What's that spell?! Pipe!
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
I used to ship Apollo X Vera, but after playing DD, I don't anymore.
If I start to like Athena after I play DD, I'll probably ship ApolloXAthena. I don't know why, but I got this feeling, especially if they are competitive and tease each other (I didn't play DD yet so I can't really tell how their relationship is)
But in any case, I will always ship ApolloxVera.
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*shot*
Seriously, though, my ships are the pretty standard ones, nothing most other people don't have. I don't spend too much time on ships.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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I want them to be official boyfriend/girlfriend in AA6. (Or we at least need to see more awkward cuteness).
Also, weird pairing of the day: Clay/Ema. The science nerds :D
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
Y'know
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CatMuto wrote:
In the beginning of the Trial, when talking about the victim.
Phoenix: A policeman? You did WHAT to a policeman!?
Byrde: It wasn't me!
And besides, Dustin and I...
We weren't "lovers" like that!
And later, towards the end...
Byrde: That glove didn't even have any sort of special meaning.
It was just a present to say thanks for covering one of my night shifts.
C-A
Phoenix: A policeman? You did WHAT to a policeman!?
Byrde: It wasn't me!
And besides, Dustin and I...
We weren't "lovers" like that!
And later, towards the end...
Byrde: That glove didn't even have any sort of special meaning.
It was just a present to say thanks for covering one of my night shifts.
C-A
Maybe she just meant they didn't exactly go that far in their relationship? I mean, I can't help but liken it to one of those Ron quotes when he denies something, the outright admits, that stuff...
I mean the two of them did have a walk in the park, were known as a couple, all that... Not saying it's some decisive evidence, I just thought it was a given.
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MadFox32 wrote:
I feel like Junipollo is the most underrated pairing ever. I mean, it's even canon, yet everybody pretty much denied its existence.
I want them to be official boyfriend/girlfriend in AA6. (Or we at least need to see more awkward cuteness).
Also, weird pairing of the day: Clay/Ema. The science nerds :D
I want them to be official boyfriend/girlfriend in AA6. (Or we at least need to see more awkward cuteness).
Also, weird pairing of the day: Clay/Ema. The science nerds :D
Hold up now..."Its even canon"
Where do you have the evidence for that? I mean it certainly looked like Juniper had feelings but for something to be canon I'd need to see some from Apollo too.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
Y'know
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Nearavex wrote:
More canon than any other Apollo pairing, and it's coming from someone who prefers Apollo/Athena >.>
No no, "canon" is a mighty big claim to make, arguably the biggest claim to make of a relationship. The DeLites are Canon, the Kitakis are canon, the way I see it there's nothing canon about Junipollo, except Juniper's one-sided feelings.
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