Detective Conan/Case Closed

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:18 pm

Well, since it was talked about somewhat much in the Your Anime A Shit topic, why not just open one for Detective Conan and get it over with. The manga by Aoyama Gosho has been going on for almost 20 years, starting in 1994 and the anime starting up 2 years afterwards. The story of high school detective Kudo Shinichi (Jimmy Kudo) being turned into a child, due to a drug administered by some men in black, and now trying to find as much information about them while living with his childhood friend Mori Ran (Rachel Moore) and her bumbling-detective father Mori Kogoro (Richard Moore) and trying to get turned back, is pretty well known.

The anime was labelled as Case Closed in America, due to the Japanese Studios asking them to change the title, so as to not get into any trouble with the copyright holders of Conan The Barbarian. Aside from changing names, some of them rather well - I find Moore turned from Mori to be pretty close for "westernizing", it also seems to have changed motives at times and making some people look more like jerks than they originally were.

The cases are fun to try to figure out, some are easy to figure out - like the whole CRTL + C hand of the victim, I did not need the "cat catches the mouse by its tail" story to figure out Copy Cat. The first Copy action made that clear for me. Although a lot of cases involve Japanese language puns or knowledge to figure things out. When Aoyama originally heard that his manga was going to be translated into different languages, he immediately wished the translators "Good Luck".

But even some of the Anime-Only cases are great! I think the one I remember the most is the one with the woman who killed her stalker... and during the confession, it was revealed that the stalker was intending to kill her very soon.
Fun for me, because I talked with my mother about that case and she says that, if the woman really had no clue that he was going to kill her, she was going to be put into jail due to murder, since she had premeditated intentions of killing him.

And why don't we talk of what we thought were some of the worst ways of being killed in the series?
I'm torn between the old guy who had the rope around his neck, hands tied behind his back and the rope also laid between his teeth to be horrifyingly disgusting, mostly because I am sensitive when it comes to teeth and potential pain they can have.
Similarily, the rich woman in one of the earlier cases, being bound and gagged inside of a bathtub, which slowly filled with water from the shower and drowned her.
And similar to the first example, the man who was going to get hanged if the door to his study was going to be opened.

As fun as I find the manga to read and the anime to watch at times, I do have to admit that I am getting somewhat tired of the series. We are currently at 885 Chapters and it feels like Conan only finds more mysteries for every step he's taken to getting closer to the Black Men's Orginazation. Currently we know of some people, are nowhere close to finding a permanent cure for APTX that shrunk Conan - and Ai - and now also have this "Ano Kata/That Person" to find out. Although according to Aoyama... a) Agasa is not Ano Kata and b) Ano Kata's name was already mentioned in the manga when Ano Kata was first mentioned.

Also, on a more personal note, I am so sick and tired of all these Childhoodfriend Romances going on...

C-A

Lord Doitsu · Post by **Lord Doitsu** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:23 pm

I just want it to end already. Is Jimmy really distrusting of Rachel that he can't confide his secret to her. This little bit just made me stop watching it completely. But I did like the Lupin crossover.

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:31 pm

Blood_fox5 wrote:I just want it to end already. Is Jimmy really distrusting of Rachel that he can't confide his secret to her. This little bit just made me stop watching it completely. But I did like the Lupin crossover.

Well the reason why he doesn't tell her he's Conan is because he's worried that the BO will kill her if she knows. Ai eventually tells him that a better reason is because she would want to do something, become much more involved, more than she might seem right now, as revealed in one of the latest Chapters (and "latest" here meaning last 20 or so... whenever it was...) when she went to help Ai, although she had no real idea what was going on.

C-A

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:47 am

^Didn't that already happen around volume 41~42, at the conclusion of that one big storyline?

One of the two series I keep up with (the other being Kindaichi Shounen). Sure, it's incredibly long now and the last few years have been a bit boring (oh, yippy, another Jiroukichi vs KID story...), but as there's usually at least one good story in every volume, I still look forward to each new release.

I hardly watch the anime though. There's some great voice acting there, but I've hardly seen any episodes ever since Kamiya Akira stopped as Mouri Kogorou. I think the only episodes I've seen since then are the handful stories I wanted to hear voiced (the Hattori vs Conan story in the restaurant for example, or the first episode with Amuro just to hear Furuya Tooru as him). The movies however, I always watch and I had been lucky enough to be in Japan in April a couple of times the last few years, so it was quite a treat to see the movies in the theaters!

Which reminds me, it's almost April again, which is usually killer in regards of Conan releases... the new movie, a new volume and a new game!

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:38 am

Yeah, I kinda got bored of the Kaito Kid appearances after a while... I mean, it's basically the same thing. "Hahaha, Kid will never make it past us! Oh no, he has made it past us and stolen the treasure! Wait, we must wonder which one is the one that Kid is disguising himself as! Oh wait, it was this person! D'oh, Conan gets the limelight again!"

I know that the murder chapters are all the same, you know, you meet three people and the Ass that will die. Then the ass dies. And then we investigate and then we find out how it works usually done in a way that makes it sound incredible up to chance that the way of killing actually worked.

But Kid... I just find him boring. He seems like a Canon Sue - he's so great at his magic, so great at disguising himself, he never really trips up anywhere... kinda boring. Maybe he's a bit better in his own manga, but given what I've read, doesn't sound like it...

C-A

Shtak · Post by **Shtak** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:08 pm

you meet three people and the Ass that will die. Then the ass dies. And then we investigate and then we find out how it works usually done in a way that makes it sound incredible up to chance that the way of killing actually worked.

Also the three people will be interrogated/searched in turn, several times, in the exact same order each time. And the killer is never the first one. So since episode 400 or so, there's only really two suspects each time. Oh and each suspect's potential motive will be explained a gazillion time, each one telling the others "hey, you could have wanted him dead too, since he yadayadayada". I love how the latest episodes of the show spoonfeed everything as if you were a child.

Lord Doitsu · Post by **Lord Doitsu** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:22 pm

Shtak wrote:
you meet three people and the Ass that will die. Then the ass dies. And then we investigate and then we find out how it works usually done in a way that makes it sound incredible up to chance that the way of killing actually worked.

Also the three people will be interrogated/searched in turn, several times, in the exact same order each time. And the killer is never the first one. So since episode 400 or so, there's only really two suspects each time. Oh and each suspect's potential motive will be explained a gazillion time, each one telling the others "hey, you could have wanted him dead too, since he yadayadayada". I love how the latest episodes of the show spoonfeed everything as if you were a child.

Don't forget the sappy confessions. When they start confessing to the murder and they turn into a mini Niagara falls, no matter who they are or what they did. I could be a muscle bound dude who killed a man with an axe, and he would still weep profusely.

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:34 pm

At least Conan/Shinichi has his times where he would down talk to the person, telling them that their supposed "sympathetic backstory reason" for the murder was worth NOTHING. Then again, most of the reasons for killing the asshole majority of the time is: "Their disgusting behavior forced this person/my lover/sister/friend to commit suicide this number of years ago."

C-A

Lord Doitsu · Post by **Lord Doitsu** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:41 pm

CatMuto wrote:At least Conan/Shinichi has his times where he would down talk to the person, telling them that their supposed "sympathetic backstory reason" for the murder was worth NOTHING. Then again, most of the reasons for killing the asshole majority of the time is: "Their disgusting behavior forced this person/my lover/sister/friend to commit suicide this number of years ago."

C-A

So, case 1 of the AA:I manga.

Post by **Bad Player** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:45 pm

Yeah, Conan is extremely formulaic. But that's what happens with mystery series like this, especially one that goes on for as long as Conan. But that's not the point--the point is the tricks, which stay original and varied, I think. (I actually stopped reading a while ago because I was getting near the current end of the series, and preferred to stop for a while than wait for weekly releases. I'll get back to it eventually...)

The overarching story is pretty dragging, though. At this point, I'd say it might have made more sense to have done it in two comic series--one that just directly tells the BO story, and one that was just lots of episodic mysteries with absolutely no overarching story.

(Also I personally prefer Kindaichi Shounen. Hajime's catchphrase(s) is so much better than Shin'ichi's!)

Shtak · Post by **Shtak** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:57 pm

Yeah, Conan is extremely formulaic. But that's what happens with mystery series like this, especially one that goes on for as long as Conan.

It wasn't as bad in the beginning though. Most mysteries felt a lot more organic, and things like the setting, the length and the amount of suspects/murders were different each time. But recently, all mysteries are three chapters (and two episodes) long, with the exact same structure each time (and all the damn stories take place in some random urban setting, almost always an appartment. Where are my deserted islands and isolated mansions ?). Which I'm sure make both Aoyama's and the animated series' makers' work easier, but make it much less exciting to us.

The tricks are also getting much less creative and believable lately, though it's definitely the main area where Aoyama is still trying.

At this point, I'd say it might have made more sense to have done it in two comic series--one that just directly tells the BO story, and one that was just lots of episodic mysteries with absolutely no overarching story.

But then, people would just stop buying the one shot mysteries manga ;)

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:13 pm

But that's not the point--the point is the tricks, which stay original and varied, I think.

I don't know, it feels to me like they become more and more complicated as it goes on. First we had mistaken identity and simple blunt force trauma. We went to sealing a bathroom door with tape, opening the door and closing it, making it look like it was sealed up with the tape and the failed plan of using chemicals replaced with wrist cutting...

And a quick note, Aoyama. If you really want us to believe that the killer wanted the other characters to believe that the victim did commit suicide, have the damn killer cut the arm length-wise! Not side-wise! Anyone who ever tried to cut their wrists side-wise knows that it doesn't bleed fast enough and generally closes up pretty fast. What you want to do, to really bleed out fast is length-wise, so it can't slip together again easily. I hate it whenever we get a "suicide" and it's wrist cutting done wrong... instantly makes me know it's murder.
Although most of Conan cases are murder.

And by now we are to... what was it, a pop sound to distract with an ice pick hitting at just the right way with poisoned dart tips. Oh and by driving a certain car with a wool sweater that would cause them to explode with eletrical... discharge or so. And lines going here and there and everywhere to hold the body and drop it just right with the... velocity of... the gravity. And the... something or other Pascal.
I miss the old days of just wanting to burn the victim by pouring gasoline over them.

But then, people would just stop buying the one shot mysteries manga ;)

Probably, but it would definitely help the story. I mean, when the BO people arrive or something happens, I'm all, "Aw shit! It's been so long, what the hell happened last time? Kir? Who the hell is that? What do you mean Vermouth? Aw man, now I gotta re-read this whole manga again...!"

C-A

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:23 pm

But Kid... I just find him boring. He seems like a Canon Sue - he's so great at his magic, so great at disguising himself, he never really trips up anywhere... kinda boring. Maybe he's a bit better in his own manga, but given what I've read, doesn't sound like it...

Depends on what volume you're reading. The first two volumes of Magic Kaito are gag-adventures and has Kuroba fighting his phobia for fish, robot clones and witches. Starting with volume three, Aoyama kept juggling random chapters of KID with his main series (first Yaiba, then Conan), and KID 'grows' because of that: he appears much more capable in the other series, than in his own series actually. By the time of volume four, Magic Kaito-KID has turned completely in Conan-KID...

KID stories can be quite good. The first couple were particularly good (his first appearance was fantastic, if you had read the original Magic Kaito run). But lately it's just been Jiroukichi stories, which usually revolve around one gimmick. The KID vs Kyougoku story for example was quite bad.

CatMuto wrote:At least Conan/Shinichi has his times where he would down talk to the person, telling them that their supposed "sympathetic backstory reason" for the murder was worth NOTHING. Then again, most of the reasons for killing the asshole majority of the time is: "Their disgusting behavior forced this person/my lover/sister/friend to commit suicide this number of years ago."

You're confusing Conan with Kindaichi Shounen here :P

Shtak wrote:
you meet three people and the Ass that will die. Then the ass dies. And then we investigate and then we find out how it works usually done in a way that makes it sound incredible up to chance that the way of killing actually worked.
Also the three people will be interrogated/searched in turn, several times, in the exact same order each time. And the killer is never the first one. So since episode 400 or so, there's only really two suspects each time. Oh and each suspect's potential motive will be explained a gazillion time, each one telling the others "hey, you could have wanted him dead too, since he yadayadayada". I love how the latest episodes of the show spoonfeed everything as if you were a child.

Well, the short three-chapter stories were obviously set-up as simple stories revolving around one gimmick, very similar to a lot of the Ellery Queen short stories (who for some stories, gives his suspects names starting with ABC or XYZ, for convenience's sake!). So characters/settings are usually highly interchangeable.

Lord Dousiu wrote:Don't forget the sappy confessions. When they start confessing to the murder and they turn into a mini Niagara falls, no matter who they are or what they did. I could be a muscle bound dude who killed a man with an axe, and he would still weep profusely.

A classic! (music, GJ!)

CatMuto wrote:And a quick note, Aoyama. If you really want us to believe that the killer wanted the other characters to believe that the victim did commit suicide, have the damn killer cut the arm length-wise! Not side-wise! Anyone who ever tried to cut their wrists side-wise knows that it doesn't bleed fast enough and generally closes up pretty fast. What you want to do, to really bleed out fast is length-wise, so it can't slip together again easily.

I guess this would explain most of it; most people haven't.

Probably, but it would definitely help the story. I mean, when the BO people arrive or something happens, I'm all, "Aw shit! It's been so long, what the hell happened last time? Kir? Who the hell is that? What do you mean Vermouth? Aw man, now I gotta re-read this whole manga again...!"

But the better BO stories work because they also refer to stories that don't seem directly related to the BO story arc. Like how the Vermouth thing went in volume 42. Though I admit, a lot of the BO stories the last two years felt a bit 'seperate' from the other stories.

Edit:

Oh, and random movies (in Japanese):

Counting how many people died (and how) in the series
Counting how many times Conan's catchphrasebaroo is said

SuperAj3 · Post by **SuperAj3** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:21 am

I've seen the first 100 eps, and am watching upwards (So I'm still in the 90's, and Ai hasn't shown up yet) I kinda got bored of it being a little repetitive but I might start up watching it again. I saw all the Kaito summer specials, and I really liked them! I wish they'd made that a full series, as he's not shown as the 'perfect' thief, I'm pretty sure he fumbles and almost nearly gets caught at one stage.

Klonoahedgehog · Post by **Klonoahedgehog** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:59 pm

I haven't watched the actual shopw but i freaking love the Opening theme songs.
Seriously, i can't get the 37 opening, i believe it was, out of my head.

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:42 pm

So with the newest Chapter - the Tense Tea Party or whatever - we kind of... eh, we might be getting another "Look, Eri and Kogoro do love each other!" chapter. By the way, simply when one person appeared, I instantly knew which one was gonna die... and she wasn't acting like a bitch at that point, either.

By the way, I'm re-reading the manga and I have to say... amongst my favorite cases are the Bonds of Flames, with Hideomi and Miyuki. Or the one with the Spider Legend, with the giant miscommunication of Shine.

C-A

Post by **Blademaster_Orca** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:50 pm

I used to really like the anime, but after having watched several hundreds of episodes, I'm afraid a lot of them are starting to blend together. There's only so many ways a person can be killed and a criminal outed, after all. And it's really bugged me how the series has gone on for such a long time that if they had aged in real time, Conan would be older than he was before the series began... which they lampshaded in one of the specials, if I'm not mistaken.

But it does have its charm, especially in some of the more twisted cases. The writing for those tends to be very impressive, especially the ones that aren't directly about solving a murder. One of the ones I remember was an early case where a mother kept her son locked in the basement for many years to stall out the statute of limitations for killing his father. That was creepy, yet entertaining.

On a side note, I enjoyed the Lupin the 3rd vs Detective Conan TV special. Haven't seen the theatrical follow-up, but I haven't heard very positive things about it in terms of equally representing both series. Which is a shame, since I do like both quite a bit.

TopHatProfessor1014 · Post by **TopHatProfessor1014** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:10 pm

Always wanted to get into Conan, but couldn't since it's such a daunting series. There's even a challenge to read every single manga volume since the majority of it has been translated into English.

Really though, I've got my hands tied with Lupin III in trying to see everything. Once I'm done with that, I may switch with Conan. Probably will take years though.

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:50 pm

But it does have its charm, especially in some of the more twisted cases. The writing for those tends to be very impressive, especially the ones that aren't directly about solving a murder. One of the ones I remember was an early case where a mother kept her son locked in the basement for many years to stall out the statute of limitations for killing his father. That was creepy, yet entertaining.

Of course, those exact kinds can't be done anymore because the Japanese law has changed and there is no longer a statute of limitations on murder. Although I'll be quite honest, in that specific case, it would be along the lines of Homicide and not Murder, as it was not a planned crime.

Since I'm currently reading through them... oh man, so many of them... I just got to Chapter 300 with the Sunset Mansion. I have to say, some of the earlier chapters also blended together as cases. Go to this mansion/retreat on this mountain. The one bridge this place has is burnt down, slashed off or otherwise made incapable of crossing. And so on.

And I'm not really looking forward to reading some of those chapters due to the reason being either...
A) it's a Kaito Kid chapter and... I really don't care about those...
B) I know the case from watching it and remember it a lot...
C) the translation is bad, meaning it takes me longer to figure out what is being said, like "beard shaver plug" instead of "electric razor". Or even those awesome lines of there being a prescription of murder instead of a limitation/statute.
D) the translation uses the Chinese Names which just plain confuses me... although this might be because it's cheaper to buy Chinese versions than Japanese ones?

Since I just got past the case of the hunters and the bear, I have to agree with the murderer.
What that victim did to get the mother bear out, that asshole deserved to die.

C-A

Shtak · Post by **Shtak** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:24 pm

Since I just got past the case of the hunters and the bear, I have to agree with the murderer.
What that victim did to get the mother bear out, that asshole deserved to die.

I've always had the impression that Aoyama was firmly against revenge of any kind. If you pay attention (in the japanese version anyway, since apparently a lot of text was changed in the english dub), Aoyama never tells you that some murderers will go scott free or will receive a lighter penalty. He often makes a point of proving the murderer wrong and sending him to jail no matter the circumstances, which I find refreshing compared to most american shows, whose message often comes down to "it's okay if you murder assholes, the police and the prosecutor will go easy on you or even overlook evidence".

Post by **Bad Player** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:35 pm

I find that each mystery series tend to treat their murderers the same. Conan's is... nothing too special. No matter the reasons behind the murder, Conan exposes the murderer, they go to jail, and that's that. I think it's just a plan "murder is wrong" thing, not some sort of super-explicit "REVENGE IS BAAAAD" moral. Kindaichi treats its murderers a bit worse... they tend to end up either dead, or completely wrong in terms of their reasons for killing. The series that treats its murderers best is definitely Un-Go. "You're the murderer! ...Anyway, cya." And the series that treats its murderers worst is S. S. Van Dine's books. There's really no way to explain what happens to them except... divine retribution.

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:10 pm

Shtak wrote:
Since I just got past the case of the hunters and the bear, I have to agree with the murderer.
What that victim did to get the mother bear out, that asshole deserved to die.

I've always had the impression that Aoyama was firmly against revenge of any kind. If you pay attention (in the japanese version anyway, since apparently a lot of text was changed in the english dub), Aoyama never tells you that some murderers will go scott free or will receive a lighter penalty. He often makes a point of proving the murderer wrong and sending him to jail no matter the circumstances, which I find refreshing compared to most american shows, whose message often comes down to "it's okay if you murder assholes, the police and the prosecutor will go easy on you or even overlook evidence".

Conan runs in Sunday. No way they're going to go with a story that would say 'yeah, it was okay you did that'. The same holds for Kindaichi Shounen (even if Magazine is aimed at a slightly older public).

Bad Player wrote:The series that treats its murderers best is definitely Un-Go. "You're the murderer! ...Anyway, cya." And the series that treats its murderers worst is S. S. Van Dine's books. There's really no way to explain what happens to them except... divine retribution.

The drama Watashi no Kirai na Tantei (based on Higashigawa Tokuya's Ikagawashi series) changes some characters for the worse, but Ukai's slight change was hilarious.

*Ukai solves murder*
*Murderer starts to talk about the why*
"Yeah, don't do that. I am not interested in your story. Ask someone else"
*Ukai walks away*
*Murderer begs other people there to listen to his story*

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:44 pm

Shtak wrote:I've always had the impression that Aoyama was firmly against revenge of any kind. If you pay attention (in the japanese version anyway, since apparently a lot of text was changed in the english dub), Aoyama never tells you that some murderers will go scott free or will receive a lighter penalty. He often makes a point of proving the murderer wrong and sending him to jail no matter the circumstances, which I find refreshing compared to most american shows, whose message often comes down to "it's okay if you murder assholes, the police and the prosecutor will go easy on you or even overlook evidence".

I dunno, I remember the German version being pretty... well, close to how the manga worked. But I did read that the American version from FUNimation altered things. Like this one man who originally... I dunno, insert stupid, misunderstanding reason for killing his wife. And in the dub, they changed it so that he was conspiring with someone and killed her on purpose, to make the killers in the show more unlikeable.

Although like with that TV-Only episode of the stalker victim killing her stalker via poison... I recently talked with my mother about it and she said that, if she didn't know that the stalker was gonna kill her soon, her planning to kill him via poison would still be nothing more than murder and she'd be thrown into jail for that.
If she did know, although the episode made clear she didn't, then she's a moron for not calling the police on her stalker. (I know the old law about stalking, at least in Germany, was that they couldn't do anything about a stalker until something happened...)

C-A

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:05 pm

^Sometimes, they also change the motives/background stories when they adapt stories from the manga in the anime. In one of the early DB stories (I think the first in the manga where they actually find a corpse), the murderer killed his brother because he was blackmailed. The anime does the same... and then suddenly adds a reveal he was also obsessed with becoming his brother. It's creepy.

The infamous library episode was broadcast again last week in Japan by the way. It's one of the earlier episodes and is often cited as a trauma for many children at the time (who have all grown up now), because the sudden (violent) change in character of the murderer was quite different from the episodes before it. He's probably one of the best known murderers in the whole series (in a meta sense), and definitely one of the few murderers of whom people can actually still remember the name! (edit: well, in Japan. I had also forgotten his name until 津川館長 suddenly became a trending tweet in the weekend during the re-broadcast...)

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:10 pm

and definitely one of the few murderers of which people can actually still remember the name!

I... honestly don't remember his name...

C-A

Shtak · Post by **Shtak** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:34 pm

Me neither, but I definitely remember the episode made me feel slightly uneasy.

Post by **Bad Player** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:57 pm

CatMuto wrote:
and definitely one of the few murderers of which people can actually still remember the name!
I... honestly don't remember his name...

C-A

I don't even remember him.

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:44 pm

Bad Player wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
and definitely one of the few murderers of which people can actually still remember the name!
I... honestly don't remember his name...

C-A
I don't even remember him.

I mostly remember him cause I read the chapter a week ago. Also, he does strike you a bit, but his name... then again, aside from several times mentioned people like Yoko Okino or the Hatamoto family, you kinda forget who most of these chapter characters are.

C-A

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:21 pm

You know, I'm kind of surprised at Ran... I mean, I understand her still screaming when it's about ghosts and such. But after about 350 chapters of seeing someone die or finding a corpse every other chapter or so, you'd think she's stop going, "Kyaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!" every time it happened...

C-A

Shtak · Post by **Shtak** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:53 am

CatMuto wrote:You know, I'm kind of surprised at Ran... I mean, I understand her still screaming when it's about ghosts and such. But after about 350 chapters of seeing someone die or finding a corpse every other chapter or so, you'd think she's stop going, "Kyaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!" every time it happened...

C-A

The series as a whole is a prime example of credibility decay due to repetition. The problem with TV shows is that you have to make sure that every separate episode have sufficient things at stakes and enough twists and turns to hook casual viewer who catch the series midway, and to keep the regular watching it. But for long running shows, it quickly stretches the limits of plausibility to have so many dramatic events happening to the same characters in a short time frame and without any kind of lasting emotional consequence on them.

I mean, after all that happened in the show, Genta, Ayumi and Mitsuhiko should be in a mental ward by now, Japan's demography should have taken a dive due to all the murders and Ran should have figured out 30 years ago that Conan is Shinichi.

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:06 am

Well she does figure out half a dozen times that he is Shinichi. But a simple "No I'm not" said by him or a random passerby who knows the issue can vouch that he isn't and she believes him. But yeah, the comicbook time is bothering me... Maybe Aoyama is making this his lifetime work, but can't we get to the end of the series already?

C-A

Post by **Bad Player** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:18 pm

Shtak wrote:The series as a whole is a prime example of credibility decay due to repetition. The problem with TV shows is that you have to make sure that every separate episode have sufficient things at stakes and enough twists and turns to hook casual viewer who catch the series midway, and to keep the regular watching it. But for long running shows, it quickly stretches the limits of plausibility to have so many dramatic events happening to the same characters in a short time frame and without any kind of lasting emotional consequence on them.

I mean, after all that happened in the show, Genta, Ayumi and Mitsuhiko should be in a mental ward by now, Japan's demography should have taken a dive due to all the murders and Ran should have figured out 30 years ago that Conan is Shinichi.

Yeah, but the point of the series is the individual cases/tricks, and the BO to a certain extent, not the characters, which is why it keeps going like that. Realism has no place in a mystery :P

("Realism" is not to be confused with "taking place within the bounds of reality," which a mystery generally should, but that's not to say there aren't exceptions...)

Shtak · Post by **Shtak** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:22 pm

Bad Player wrote:
Shtak wrote:The series as a whole is a prime example of credibility decay due to repetition. The problem with TV shows is that you have to make sure that every separate episode have sufficient things at stakes and enough twists and turns to hook casual viewer who catch the series midway, and to keep the regular watching it. But for long running shows, it quickly stretches the limits of plausibility to have so many dramatic events happening to the same characters in a short time frame and without any kind of lasting emotional consequence on them.

I mean, after all that happened in the show, Genta, Ayumi and Mitsuhiko should be in a mental ward by now, Japan's demography should have taken a dive due to all the murders and Ran should have figured out 30 years ago that Conan is Shinichi.
Yeah, but the point of the series is the individual cases/tricks, and the BO to a certain extent, not the characters, which is why it keeps going like that. Realism has no place in a mystery :P

("Realism" is not to be confused with "taking place within the bounds of reality," which a mystery generally should, but that's not to say there aren't exceptions...)

Yup, perfectly true

let's just say that what kinda annoys me is how lazy writing seems to be the main reason the series keeps going, and also that I would like a bit of continuity sometimes as I already mentionned in the kindaichi topic. But in the end it's really the cases that matter, it's just that detective Conan is one of these series I love to hate !

Post by **Bad Player** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:23 pm

Shtak wrote:But in the end it's really the cases that matter, it's just that detective Conan is one of these series I love to hate !

Heh, I sorta understand. Conan isn't a series I love to hate... but it's a series I love to not like as much as everyone else does.

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:47 pm

You know, the more I read Conan, the more I think his excuses are getting sillier and sillier... "(Insert explanation about something specific) ... is what I saw on TV..." over and over. Why can't he just come out and say that he is interested in forensic stuff, forensic history or police work and simply read up on things about it or so?

It's something I do when something catches my interest, I search online or at a library for information on the subject and learn things about it that way. Even the other characters are pretty suspicious on his "Oh and that was on TV, too?" lines and such.

Then again, he's overall not very good at keeping a low profile...

C-A

Shtak · Post by **Shtak** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:19 pm

Heh, I sorta understand. Conan isn't a series I love to hate... but it's a series I love to not like as much as everyone else does.

Mmmmh though there is a big Conan fanbase, most fans are pretty moderate and won't deny some glaring and recurring issues about it. I have yet to come across real insane fanboys on the fence against any form of criticism, ~~unlike, say, metal gear solid fans~~

CatMuto wrote:You know, the more I read Conan, the more I think his excuses are getting sillier and sillier... "(Insert explanation about something specific) ... is what I saw on TV..." over and over. Why can't he just come out and say that he is interested in forensic stuff, forensic history or police work and simply read up on things about it or so?

It's something I do when something catches my interest, I search online or at a library for information on the subject and learn things about it that way. Even the other characters are pretty suspicious on his "Oh and that was on TV, too?" lines and such.

Then again, he's overall not very good at keeping a low profile...

C-A

Credibility decay due to repetition, once again

it kinda made sense for Conan to put Kogoro to sleep as a hasty measure in the beginning, but it's just not believable for a sec that NO member of the black organization has noticed him by now. Especially since Conan crossed their paths several times now.

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:41 pm

I'm gonna list my theory on who "Ano Kata" is...

Spoiler:

C-A

Post by **Bad Player** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:24 am

CatMuto wrote:I'm gonna list my theory on who "Ano Kata" is...

Spoiler:
I say it's Akai Shuuichi. He seems to be the immortal guy of the seriess (or has clones walking around) so maybe he's the first person who went "outside the timeline" or whatever that diary said was the Black Organization's goal.
C-A

Spoiler:

CatMuto · Post by **CatMuto** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:36 am

Then I'll ask Aoyama what the hell he was thinking. That's like turning towards his audience and giving them a slap in the face for the pure sake of chuckles.

C-A

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:39 am

It's been established that Magic Kaito and Detective Conan are indeed set in the same universe, and there's definitely magic in Magic Kaito. Heck, his classmate is a witch.