I always took it more as an explanation to Link and Tetra themselves considering they never knew in the first place about the flooding and all the stuff that went on. Sure it's in the legends, but that's all it is to them, a story. Wind Waker isn't surprising, but I was even somewhat surprised when I found Hyrule Castle for the first time. Then again, discovering Hyrule frozen in time was my favorite part of the game. Besides, I look at it this way. It's nothing more than bad guy banter trying to convince the hero that everything he has known has turned against him and that he should justify the villain's actions. It wasn't meant to be a plot twist at the END OF THE GAME, more so just flavorful dialogue. I think you're looking WAY too into this.

As for the Zora turning into Rito, I honestly have no clue. It contradicts Oracle of Ages as they say the Ocean Zora are the friendly ones and the River Zora are the ones that shoot stuff at you. I could just speculate and say that that takes place in a different timeline and a different world where Zoras had to adapt over time from fresh to salt water whereas with Wind Waker it happened instantly so their evolution caused them to sprout wings and fly? Yeah, it makes no sense, so I'll just go with "because the Goddesses did it" theory. They have the power to do anything, so why not?

I know it's been brought up before too why Gorons still exist but not Zoras. That, I think, is because the Gorons live in the mountains as is, so when the flood happened, they were already safe.

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OK as a hardcore Zelda Fanatic. I must do my best to explain this the evolution in Wind Waker.

Rito: Evolved from Zoras by the graces of the Sky spirit Valoo. Only by them being granted a scale can they fly. Now when the world is flooded with ocean water filled with monsters is it easier to A. wait hundreds of years for evolution to kick in...Or B. except the gift the nice dragon gave you so you can fly over shit and eventually evolve to better do so. And if you recall not all Rito are descended from Zora. There's the Running Man's decedent. So I believe that hundreds of years of ANY family line being exposed to Valoo's scales will result in a Rito.

Karoks: Now many of you have probably asked yourselves. How did HUMAN LIKE CHILDREN evolve into little wooden leaf faced creatures who have seed planting power and can fly. Simple the same way children turned into this thing.

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No. I overall don't care about story in a Zelda game because it's just the same "Save the World" stuff over and over again. Just cause they put a new coat of paint on it and label it something else with a small addition of "Get your sister back" doesn't mean it's gonna be new.

Skyward attempted to be story-driven, but failed. Because Zelda games are not about the story. And I'm saying Wind Waker fails for me as a supposed sequel, because it never answered questions I had and just brought more up. That has nothing really to do with story, mostly because other than getting your sister back, there is no proper story.

But here are questions for me that I can't find good answers to.
How come Zora are not flourishing? And why evolve into birds of all things, if they could just adapt to the other water?
Why are Gorons alive? The stone-rock-heavy people didn't need to evolve at all, when the world was flooded? How come they can float safely on tiny, rickety floats? What's with the outfit?
How come Gorons aren't the sages of the Earth temple?
And why are Rito those sages? How could a Zora possibly traverse through the Earth temple, if you obviously require wings to go through there? Why are Rito not the sages of Wind, it would make a lot more sense because bird = flying = wind.
The koroks never bothered me much, to be honest. Mostly cause they're not interesting.
Why is Ganny giving us a sympathetic backstory of his reason when he was never sympathetic to begin with? Why make us feel sorry for this ass who took our sister, destroyed an island and wanted to kill us? And killed people in the past for a stupid reason?
Why is our reward for sailing all over creation more sailing, especially if we already found everything?
(And why did they think this game needed sequels called Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks?)

C-A

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Pfft I can answer these no problem!


Q."How come Zora are not flourishing? And why evolve into birds of all things, if they could just adapt to the other water?"

A. I answered this one in an earlier post but here it is again in case you hadn't seen it.


Q. "Why are Gorons alive? The stone-rock-heavy people didn't need to evolve at all, when the world was flooded? How come they can float safely on tiny, rickety floats? What's with the outfit?"

A. Thanks to Skyward Sword we see that Gorons have been living and adapting for centuries. This is the same kind of thing we humans do. In fact I dare say that out of all the races Gorons have found a way to adapt most of all. As for the clothes I believe Wind Waker Gorons have adapted to be more like humans. Hence why they can float on a raft. In fact I can see them going from a rock to a vegan diet. Ether way they have shown the most amount of quick adaptability.

Q. "How come Gorons aren't the sages of the Earth temple?"

A. Apparently you don't understand what the sages ARE. Let me explain this to you. Sages are the protectors of the sacred realm. Their existence is for the porpoise of fighting the evil that wishes to invade the world by sealing them away and giving the master sword the power to repel evil. However the Sages can be anyone, they have been humans, spirits, and races of odd origin. Never was there ever any RULE that said "This person's made of rock so they should be the earth sage!" In fact the Gorons have always been more related to the element fire. And in Skyward Sword they had no Gorons in that Earth temple...nor any of the other Earth temples in the franchise. Why start now?

Q. And why are Rito those sages? How could a Zora possibly traverse through the Earth temple, if you obviously require wings to go through there?

A. The king of Red Lions said it himself. There was another entrance to the temple in Hyrule under the waves, but because of the barrier you couldn't reach it that way. Maybe your going through it backwards...or maybe YEARS AGO it was filled with water instead of jinxing smoke...

Q. Why are Rito not the sages of Wind, it would make a lot more sense because bird = flying = wind.

A. Wow...It's like you have no imagination...OK lets start with the concepts of wind and earth. What makes wind? The sun, ocean, and trees. Trees create wind so the fact that the wind temple has trees is not so surprising. What about the Earth Temple and the Zora and Rito? Think about earth as a planet. What fuels the earth? Water. Ok so water fuels the earth and trees make wind. And if you don't like that I'm gonna bring up a point I made earlier. The sages are not there to represent the temple, but to protect and maintain balance by banishing the forces of evil.

O. The koroks never bothered me much, to be honest. Mostly cause they're not interesting.

A. That's not a question...

Q. Why is Ganny giving us a sympathetic backstory of his reason when he was never sympathetic to begin with? Why make us feel sorry for this ass who took our sister, destroyed an island and wanted to kill us? And killed people in the past for a stupid reason?

A. Backstory?...If you mean his envy of Hyrule and how blessed it was...That was never meant to be sympathetic, but instead a motive for his actions all along. But this was something we sorta knew. He wanted Hyrule, he wanted power, he wanted everything. But without the land itself all that power was meaningless. (At least to him.) If you just wanted Ganon to be a power hungry bastard, don't worry he's still that. But he also wanted prosperous land to go with it. If anything it made him more greedy. True growing up in the desert was no picnic but he could have just given up his post after birthing a son and lived in Hyrule. Instead he wanted more than just a nice place to live without the fear of death.

Q. Why is our reward for sailing all over creation more sailing, especially if we already found everything?

A. To keep a promise, and show how Link grew. To clarify let talk about how Link was before his adventure, lazy, ungrateful (considering how he reacted to the cloths), and reluctant to leave home. Now in order to keep a promise he and Tetra made to the King they wanted to find a new land. It's called growing up. I don't know what kind of reward you wanted Link to get but to be honest a new adventure in search of uncharted land sounds pretty exciting to me.

Q. (And why did they think this game needed sequels called Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks?)

A. Why was there Majora's Mask? That game was Awesome as a sequel and it used many of the same exact character designs and locations and OOT. They did it so they would have another title to sell. But you know I very much liked both games. (Though Spirit Tracks was the better game. Linebeck alone was worth $30.00.)

I hope you like my answers. :)

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Backstory = Motive in my books. Mostly because the backstories explains the motive of the villains. And it was still a sympathetic backstory, because he wanted Hyrule - not just cause he was envious of its better climate - but because he wanted his people to benefit of living in that better climate. I would have liked the final battle scene so much more, had he not gone off on that rant.



Um... if I got some clothes that looked obviously too hot for the climate I'm living in, even if it was for one day, I'd be kinda ungrateful, too. I might plaster an obvious-fake-smile on my lips, but it'd still be there. Also... clothes are not very good gifts.

As for your answers, well, all preference because once again, I didn't like Majora very much. And I just can't understand why people think it's such a great game. But I don't wanna get into that discussion again... Also, you kinda lost me when you mentioned Skyward proving something because.... well, I do not care about the timelines, I think they are stupid and were never meant to exist.
Miyamoto himself said he only wanted to make adventure games and it was Aonuma who eventually put the pressure on to have them somehow connect, because apparently it's impossible to have games in a series that are not connected with each other. (Look at Tales Of, several of those games do not connect, some others are mentioned as rather distant sequels or prequels)

Also, feels to me like the timelines contradict each other AND... well they add NOTHING to the game for me. If knowing the timelines or actually caring about them would alter my experience or somehow be IMPORTANT to the GAMEPLAY ITSELF, then I might see why they would be important.
As it is... I see no point in them. Even if I knew them, I don't think I would give two shrugs about which Link I might be controlling right now.

C-A

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The one thing, ONE THING, I really hate about the existence of Ocarina of Time is that it started to whole Timeline theory in the first place because people had to start speculating about the Kid and Adult timelines. I just enjoy each Zelda game for what it is and pretty much ignore the timeline. I really could care less about it and it doesn't affect whether I'll appreciate a Zelda game more or less because of it.

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Cat: "I don't get the reasoning/appeal behind this, someone explain it to me"

Others: *give reasonable responses*

Cat: "Well, that's your opinion, I think it's stupid and useless and so it shouldn't exist."


You know, Cat, this might be part of why posters on the GameFAQs boards give you a hard time. If it were anyone else, I'd swear you were hardcore trolling.

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Right? That's what I'm saying. If they actually really influenced the game itself or the experience it would give me, I probably would pay attention to them. But as it stands, it really doesn't make much of a difference if I know that the current Link I'm controlling is the reincarnated-semi-descendant of this other Link or whether this comes from a timeline where something or bad happened.
So why bother? I haven't found one Zelda player yet, who told me that knowing every detail of the timelines has actually made them enjoy every Zelda game more than had they not known about it.



It seems silly and stupid to me, but I'm not saying that anyone who believes in them is actually a moron.

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...First of all Motive does not=backstory. In fact there are people who's motive have nothing to do with what happened in the past so much as what they desire for the future. A goal. So motive=something to give the compulsion to act.

Second weather he was ungrateful or not doesn't matter the point is he was doing what any kid would do. As an adult you begin to realize cloths are an amazing gift. I like getting scarves and such. And while I understand Links feelings, he could have grinned an bore it.

Majora is my favorite Zelda game. The fact that you dislike it is your opinion but it's not the point. If anything I was asking why it was made. No matter how good it was I never saw a reason if they had to recycle so much. Until I thought of it this way. The developers had an idea...they liked the idea so they made a game. Everyone liked the idea. But budget at the time was limited=lots of recycling. So that's how Majora came to be. Spirit Tracks and Phantom Hourglass probably came into existence in a similar way. You asked what was the point...well there you go. They had an idea they liked, just cause you didn't really means nothing.

The split timeline doesn't bother me. I believe in the string theory and alternate universe theory. So if you consider that it's very possible to me. But at the same time I like to look at each Zelda title as a stand alone game. Because each takes place in it's own time and place so I feel thinking too much about the timeline might take away the experience. I just take it for what it is. But when you ask me how can something evolve over the coarse of said timeline, I have no choice but to use it to prove my point. Don't ask questions about a timeline that you don't care about and just take the game for what it is. A legend.

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No, they aren't. I got a stole for my 23rd birthday and I was not happy about that at all. I have not seen someone of my age in Germany, who wears stoles for every day stuff. Or even for special occasions. That's what people my mother's generation do or older people. So no, clothes are still not a good gift, whether you're a child or an adult. In case it's not known, a stole is a kind of scarve you wear around your shoulders.

And I have nothing against parallel universe ideas and such, but I dislike how some people are so analy petty about them with the Zelda games. I point out one "problem" with the timeline, and I get bashed on by several people about I "just don't get it" and that I'm not a "real Zelda fan" cause I am not focusing my entire Zelda knowledge on some fucking timelines that were never made official until a year ago, when the developers were so sick and tired of questions of "where in the timeline does this Zelda take place?" and slapped something together to shut them up.

Nothing against two split timelines, that can happen and made sense - Child and Adult Link. But a third one created just to explain this one thing, it feels like they went "And this is how it went. What, it contradicts what happens in the other timelines? Uh, well that's, um.... i-it's a third timeline!"

Speaking of Child timeline! Can someone explain to me why Ocarina's time travel doesn't make sense? The Sacred Realm and all was safe until Link pulled the Master Sword out. When he puts the sword back, it teleports him to the time just before he pulled the sword out. And since we know only a good person can pull it out, the sword is totally safe there. Meaning the realm and Triforce are safe... so why doesn't Link, after seeing the future, just be all "Screw this!" and puts the sword back, going to the child time again and leaving it there? Ganondorf is already a known traitor, so Hyrule people are unlikely to let him back in and will kill him on sight.

Also, Zelda's plan was dumb. "These stones must never be brought together with this Ocarina, because then the Sacred Realm will open. We must prevent Ganondorf from doing this! So let us bring these stones together that should be kept apart and open the realm ourselves with the Ocarina. We'll get the Triforce first. It's foolproof!" Sure you may say she's still a child and a child's plan tends to not work, but... they do say that she's a wise, precocious and rather mature-beyond-her-age princess. She should know that this wouldn't work.

And finally, why exactly could Zelda not tell her father? Yes, he first thought it was just a dream. But once Link arrived, couldn't she go to him and say, "Father, this boy from the forest has arrived, carrying the sacred Forest Gem with him, just as my dream has predicted. You must see reason that it was not merely a dream." Especially if the king was seen as a wise and good king... (I'm sure someone is gonna mention the 'The King Of Hyrule Is A Jerk' comicstrip line...)

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If that's the case, then how did Ganondorf even get there in the adult timeline? From his evil gloating, he never mentioned anything about the Master Sword preventing him from entering the Sacred Realm, just that he couldn't get past the Door of Time.

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But Rauru is the one who says that the Master Sword being pulled out was the one last thing that needed to be done to fully expose the Sacred Realm and Triforce.

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She's right about this one. HOWEVER; I want to say something about the timeline in which Link dies. If you know about the Alternate Universe theory you should know how it works. When you make a decision and then act on that decision it then creates an alternate time line in which the decision you DIDN'T make was made. So even if you DIDN'T have a time traveling device you can create multiple alternate universes every time you decide what you eat for breakfast. So a universe where Link made a mistake in Ocarina of Time and died, OR you (the player) get a game over, made a timeline in which Link died. Hell there may be an alternate universe where YOUR dead! According to the theory it's a possibility. Which goes to show how much our daily decisions effect our lives.

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Last edited by Ucha Nekome on Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

With regards to the discussion about the 'clothes' being a bad gift.

They were more than just clothes. From the intro:

"On a certain island, it became customary to garb boys in green when they came of age.
Clothed in the green of fields, they aspired to find heroic blades and cast down evil"

It was more than just a set of clothes it was practically ceremonial, a representation of Link's coming of age. Considering this island was raised with the legends there's no way Link wouldn't know the significance of those clothes.

These sort of rituals can mean to young men and in this case it also meant a lot to the elders and his grandmother considering the tradition behind those clothes.

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Ignoring the fact that time travel is a theory at best and impossible at worst, is it ever specifically stated that Link goes back to the exact moment he took the sword out? Maybe he goes forward and backward the same amount of time each trip, meaning if he spent two days in the future and put the Master Sword back, two days would have passed in his own time.


Ganondorf had already attempted to collect the spiritual stones and would have taken the Ocarina of Time by force if Zelda hadn't escaped. Plus, Zelda admitted during the ending that her plan was flawed, which is better than you can say for most characters.


Zelda still just dreamed about a "dark cloud" and assumed it was Ganondorf. I think the King of Hyrule would have had trouble breaking off diplomatic relations with the Gerudo tribe over something like that. Alternate theory: The King may have been already at least partially under Ganondorf's control. Ganon is a wizard.


Regarding the timeline, Nintendo Power stated several years ago that Nintendo had a timeline for Zelda worked out but wasn't going to reveal it to the public. There's always been some sort of timeline ever since (at least) Link to the Past anyway, since that was officially set before the events of the first two games when it was released.

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That doesn't make sense. If he did spent days in the Adult part and then went back to the Child part and the same amount of days had passed, wouldn't he eventually encounter the exact day when Ganny would infiltrate Hyrule and take over?



Yes, by... cursing the Deku Tree. Filling the Dodongo Cavern with Dodongos and blocking the food cave for a rock eating tribe with a large boulder. Also by writing a letter and throwing it into Lake Hylia, because Ruto herself said she never wrote or sent a letter.
Ganny's plan was.................................. *snort*



One guy and about... 25 - 30 women. That's... that's not very difficult to handle.

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If this wasn't just a video game without a set time limit, sure.


Um...

Are you saying my father asked
you to come here to save me?
I'd never ask anyone to do such a
thing!
"Letter in a Bottle?" I have
no idea what you're talking about!
My father is worried about me?
I don't care!
Anyway, I can't go home right now.
And you... Get out of here!
Understand?!

Are you still hanging around here?
I told you to go away!

You're that worried about me?
Then I will give you the honor
of carrying me!

But, now that I've found it,
I don't need to be in here
anymore!
So, take me home, right now!

You...You're late!
What took you so long?
You're useless!
I was just lonely, that's all...
Just a little!!

I was scared...
A little! Just a little!!

You!
You looked cool...cooler than I
thought you would, anyway...
Just a little!
Well, anyway, you saved me, so I
guess I'll reward you.
What do you wish? Just tell me...


It might be when there are literally just over 100 NPCs in the entire kingdom, and even if it were, that's still not diplomatic at all. You don't break off relations with a whole nation because your kid had a bad dream.

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You do if your child is known for prophetic dreams or to be rather wise and not just say things to stirr up trouble like most brats.

And again, I see from the quote that Ruto says she didn't write a letter.
So Ganny most likely wrote that for shits and giggles.
Because he's so evil.

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Perhaps he was hoping that someone would go to rescue Ruto and find the spiritual stones for him? While Ganny sure is evil, I'm not sure he actually does anything for fun

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Okay let's be serious......

Link and Zelda are BOTH Immortal.

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I always took the whole Ruto claiming to not know about a letter as her feigning ignorance, considering how much of a stuck-up brat she is when you first meet her.

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I fail to see how writing a letter would somehow ruin that image...

C-A

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Again guys.... Link and Zelda are Immortal. They are all involved since the events of Skyward Sword. Their generations kept meeting each other, one way or another. And Ganon/Ganondorf is the Descendant of Demise.

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They aren't immortal, they are being reborn. At least their souls/hearts/wills are, not their bodies and memories. Big difference. Otherwise, all the other Zeldas and Links in the games would know about Ganondorf (or Demise) from the very beginning, Link would never forget how to use a sword - since Skyward Link trained to become a knight, and Zelda would've been a manipulative bitch all the time.

Wait... we get the stones for Zelda in Ocarina... Zelda in Skyward... on Zelda's urging, we find the pendants... holy shit, Zelda IS a manipulative woman in several games!

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I don't think he meant literally immortal Cat, I've heard immortal used in the context "there will always be another reincarnation". Also Zelda's not THAT manipulative, asking for help isn't always being particularly manipulative in the way you are implying.

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But you can't deny that the Zelda in Skyward IS manipulative. She practically admits it.

C-A

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Well... if there was a naive boy that got a kick out of putting his life in danger by fighting monsters to win some kind of pendant or stone, then yeah, I'd probably manipulate him into handling things my lazy butt wouldn't want to be doing. You really can't blame Zelda. I'll just be waiting and hoping he's not wasting his time going fishing, slashing chickens, or achieving perfect scores in archery games to win that final heart piece.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvoi_i5Yds0&t=9m28s

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I feel like going off on a rant on how anyone can see LinkxZelda as a good couple... I mean... it's the stupid cliché of Knight gets the Princess... It's so... blah. So bland, there'd be no fun in seeing it again. And I hate it when people say Skyward ends with LinkxZelda. We don't know that! The game cuts to black before anything can be resolved. For all we know, Link could've shrugged his shoulders and gone back to Skyloft.
He knows the dangers on the surface, so does Zelda, he might be fed up with that stuff and just want to go back to his peaceful life on Skyloft.

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I could see it going there eventually in Spirit Tracks since they actually work together and have enough time to grow close, but that's about it.

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The only times LinkXZelda makes any sense to me, is in Skyward sword and Wind waker.

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Skyward never made sense to me. Mostly cause... how can I believe there to be a romance, when said romance takes a total backseat for 90% of the game? Yeah, there's heavy hints in the intro, but once you get to the surface, you're too busy solving puzzles, fighting stuff and going through dungeons to think, "Yeah, totally doing this for Zelda. Not cause, you know, I'm a hero and forced to do this". Especially if you do the sidequest where you make Peatrice fall for you and actually confess that you love her. I buy that romance more than LinkxZelda.

As for Wind Waker or Spirit Track... eh, I might see it in Spirit Track. But then, I'm iffy about the CG ones, cause I'm never too sure how old they are and if it's buyable to be longer lasting love at that point...

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I'm just gonna leave this here

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This is only the second-worst depiction of Link I've ever seen. Don't ask.

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Any opinions on Hyrule Warriors? I know it's not traditional Zelda, but the new screenshots and story info released recently makes it look promising in terms of series lore, at the very least. I also don't remember any other Zelda games where the villain's motives were driven solely by being in love with Link...

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Oh God the villain's doing this cause she's in love with Link? Okay, that's already a negative for me. But I do like the gameplay pieces I saw. And Link without the hat and in that chainlink armor looks just ADORABLE!! I want this game (even if it's on WiiU........) and I like the white-haired Impa.

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Oooh there's more out there? Got a link for me to see this stuff?

I do like Dynasty Warriors and this seems hilarious enough to be worth buying but I'm always welcoming more info.

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Here's a comprehensive overview of the new stuff. Lots of new screens and translated info. The game comes out in Japan on August 14th, and even has a collector's edition, so that's awesome.

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Damn that's some cool looking stuff. Impa looks suitably badass though...that evil witch has more breasts than I ever expected to see in a Zelda game...I'm going to put that one down to Toei's influence.

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Don't let Malo's cute baby looks fool you — he is actually eight years old and very savvy when it comes to business.
He's WHAT?! I thought it was 3, maybe 4 years old - tops. Jeez...! Good job fooling me on somebody's age, LoZ, good job.

Also, I'll be that guy and start a discussion about the look of this-person-who-may-or-may-not-be-Link. Iwata at least has teased that this may not be Link, but who knows... except for them, you know.



Me, I like the design. Whether it's Link or someone else, it's nice. I like the ponytail. My only problem is, if this is Link, then I have to question Nintendo's design... I mean, yeah, Link was a bishonen ever since Ocarina and previously, and the Skyward look for him is pretty much the most adorable version I have seen to date. But this... seems to have taken it beyond and made him look like a chick. I'm serious, I am still unclear whether this person has male or female genitalia.

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