Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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WinterCoat wrote:
"A mirror is the only way to explain the ankle thing, plus the weird vibe 'bout the picture in general," Brandy said, agreeing with Seb. "I'm not sure where the mirror went, though..."
"Maybe they dropped the mirror in the liquor tank, or incinerated it," Seb suggested. "Or they could have even just dumped it somewhere else in the caverns if they had access via the elevator. Point is, it probably wouldn't be too difficult to hide. And it would explain why Matt was holding the bowie knife in the wrong hand.
"Of course, if this was set up there has to be some meaning behind it. For instance... the body Brandy saw being dragged off at 12:20, it wasn't being dragged towards the elevator, it was being dragged towards the grate. So, then, maybe they were after all being dragged by a rope, but instead of going via the elevator, the rope was threaded through the grate?"
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"You're getting much closer."
"A MIRROR WAS HUNG ON THE WALL IN THE MIDDLE ROOM AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CHALLENGE."
"Also, I'll send Bruce to check the bottom of the shaft."
Bruce leaves and comes back.
*Bruce voice* "Kee! I just went and checked the elevator shaft and there is a magic circle at the bottom as well!"
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Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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"First of all, they were unconscious. I'm not yet sure how. Meanwhile someone shrunk inside the elevator using the magic circle, dropped down to the shaft floor, and then drew a new magic circle there. They then went back up to the elevator to set everything else up.
"A third magic circle was drawn around the metal grate. The unconscious person had one end of the hooked metal wire attached to them, and the other end was threaded through the grate. The killer then headed down to the torture room.
"At 12:20, Brandy saw a picture of the plan in action. The killer, down in the torture room, began pulling their end of the metal wire, dragging the unconscious person over to the left side of the room. Because of the mirror it looked like they were being dragged towards the elevator instead, but we know that's not true now. Brandy activated the knockout gas but it did nothing, as the killer wasn't even in the same room.
"Then, once the unconscious person was dragged right over the grate, and therefore over the magic circle there, the killer teleported them over to the elevator shaft. They got crushed, and then the killer teleported them back again, leaving the remains right over the metal grate and covering up the magic circle. I think this also explains why part of the metal wire was found among the remains," he concluded simply, trailing off awkwardly without anything more to say.
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"That said, you're wrong on something."
"IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO CLIMB OUT OF THE ELEVATOR SHAFT ONCE INSIDE."
"That said, a long enough implement could maybe fit through the hole to draw one. So perhaps you aren't so far off..."
"The next thing you should talk about is the recording. Why was it made? Who made it? When was it made?"
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"And as for the recording... hm." He placed a hand to his chin, both in thought and trying to look sophisticated despite the bright red paint stains coating his suit. "The person most likely to have recorded it is Benjamin, in my eyes. As for the purpose of it, perhaps it was to let us know about something...? Truth be told, I'm not sure of that answer," he conceded, scratching his head.
"If I had to make an assumption, perhaps it was made before the cameras turned on? Benjamin was very likely not being tortured at the time of the recording, and it seems to have been before they started one another's challenges. Just my assumption, though." He shrugged, hoping he was right about at least one thing he said.
Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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"Like, it's almost as if he left us bread crumbs to follow. I can't help but shake the feelin' that this whole murder had some kind of secondary purpose beyond someone tryin' to escape. I feel like maybe Benjamin was tryin' to uncover someone or somethin' posthumously. Oh, n' as for when, it was probably 'fore the picture I saw at 12:30, since it's clear by that point Matt n' Benjamin were workin' together."
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"I'll give you hints:"
"IT TOOK EVERYONE AROUND TEN MINUTES TO EXPLORE THE FACILITY AND THEN SPLIT UP."
"ANYTHING FOUND ON THE TABLE STARTED THERE."
"You're so close to the answers."
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"I guess I should go over what was on the table one more time. When Haley n' I investigated, we found the bowie knife, tape recorder, pliers, n' fire poker. If the bowie knife started there, as well as the tape recorder, then I'm gonna assume that Benjamin n' Matt both ended up down there together to begin with for some reason. My guess is that that's when the recordin' itself was made, n' after it cuts off Ben managed to convince Matt to join 'im somehow, which would explain why they'd both be goin' to great lengths to mirror the image the camera would be showin'.
"After killin' Klifford, Matt n' Benjamin went to the torture chamber for Benjamin's challenge. Matt's the one who pulled the fella's teeth, as evidenced by the bloody pliers. As a result, both Kliff's n' Ben's challenges were completed, but not Matt's, so I'm gonna guess he might not be here because he died as a result of failin'?"
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Belphegor folds his hands.
Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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"IN FACT, MATT AND BENJAMIN DID NOT PLAN A MURDER TOGETHER IN ANY WAY."
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Brandy smacked her palm to her head. "I'm so fuckin' confused! Pardon my French, but seriously, this is the worst one yet. N' Maybe Matt n' Benjamin didn't plan anythin' after all, at least not a murder, but then why would they go out of their way to mirror a camera's perspective for any purpose other than givin' a hint? N' if they were givin' a hint, then that shows there was some kinda on-the-spot plannin' goin' on. Klifford feels too disconnected from everythin', too... I guess his death was jus' an accident if they didn't plan on killin' no one, n' that they had some other scheme in mind for the teleportin' circles. Unless Matt died? Maybe Benjamin accidentally killed the person in the elevator shaft n' let his torture thing go on until he died as a punishment for 'imself. The person who carried out their torture of Benjamin wanted to hide it, so they flipped the camera, protecting their identity as the new tainted, as per the rules.
"Maybe instead of Matt's challenge bein' failed because he was busy helpin' Benjamin is because he was actually dead instead, n' Klifford's items were planted on the crushed up mess as a ruse. I guess in this version of events, that makes Klifford the tainted..."
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"Additionally can I ask you all something? I am not sure if you all suspect this of him, but I must ask..."
Belphegor's voice crackles with the quiet intensity of a low-burning hearth.
"Do you think Matt would crush anybody? Especially after what happened..."
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"He was crushed under a car."
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"If that's the case, perhaps the glasses were just broken as a diversion..."
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Collin1002 wrote:
"Ah." Oliver simply nodded in response, placing a hand to his chin. "So... could Klifford have done that, then? If so, that's quite the sadistic way to kill someone... Killing them in the same manner as their friend," he said a frown.
"If that's the case, perhaps the glasses were just broken as a diversion..."
"If that's the case, perhaps the glasses were just broken as a diversion..."
"No, soldier..." Daniel sighs. "What Belphegor means is that Matt killed the doc' the same way he killed his friend."
Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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"Anyway, from 12:00 to 12:10 everyone was busy exploring. Then they split up and occupied different rooms for the next 10 minutes, it sounds like," Seb continued, returning to the topic at hand. "This makes it sound like the person in the torture room was solely responsible for killing whoever was in the pachinko room, while whoever was upstairs in the liquor room remained entirely uninvolved. Unfortunately all we can immediately conclude is that Benjamin wasn't in the pachinko room, but that isn't really new information as we already know he's not the victim who was crushed.
"It seems like 12:20 was a snapshot of the crime being committed, so it's fair to say that the victim died not long after. By 12:25 they were probably already dead. The killer, starting in the torture room, moved the victim over the grate, headed over to the elevator to take it up to the second floor, activated the circle remotely, then took the elevator back down to the torture room floor to crush the victim. Then they could activate the circle again to move the remains back to the pachinko room. What confuses me is why they even needed to transfer the remains in the first place. It's almost as though they wanted to be found out? And given the circumstances, the person up in the liquor room would have known for certain that the only other remaining person was the killer.
"If we look at the 12:30 picture, it looks like a meeting, or perhaps confrontation, between the two survivors. And they're in the very room the victim's remains are, which makes it all the more likely they're discussing, or indeed arguing about, that murder. Matt is holding a knife, which makes it look like he's angry at Benjamin for killing Klifford. The Bowie knife started in the torture room, which might imply Matt was the one down there to begin with, but we can also see that it's missing in the 12:20 and 12:25 pictures, which could instead suggest he took it with him when they were exploring earlier. That would put Matt upstairs trying his own challenge, while Benjamin was in the torture room for his. I think this makes sense: at first everyone started out by attempting their own challenges. But then, after Benjamin killed Klifford, he met with Matt in the pachinko room and said 'We should each complete each other's challenges.' That's when they both went downstairs and Matt started to torture Benjamin, only for Daniel to knock them both out.
"Of course this would ultimately mean that... Benjamin killed Klifford. And then, someone killed Benjamin," Seb concluded heavily.
Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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"I suppose there's one other option. Benjamin killed Klifford, then found a way to let Matt out, maybe with outside help. Then Benjamin simply allowed the timer to tick over to 60 and died that way, letting Matt live while he himself got punished. He would have been punished by Belphegor anyway when his crime was outed at the tribunal."
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Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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"One potential option Benjamin's killer had is using a speed spell," he then said. "This might allow Ivan or Haley to kill him even with only a short time period available to them. Of course they wouldn't have been moving fast until after they reached the challenge area, so that wouldn't help them do that any quicker. I'm not sure how plausible this is overall. They'd have had a very narrow window, just 12:35 until 12:39 to pull this off. I guess those first 5 minutes from 12:30 until 12:35 are plenty of time to get over to the challenge area, but they can't have known what was going on in there so I'm not sure how exactly they thought they could get away with murder."
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"That's my biggest problem: this whole scenario is so complex n' vague that it's hard to figure out the true goal of it all. Why would someone who couldn't see what was happenin' rush in to kill someone? Why would Benjamin kill, if he did? Where's Matt? What was the point in purposely screwin' with the picture? Even if I wanted to throw you n' Oliver back under suspicion, neither of you had a clue what was goin' on inside, so it still wouldn't make sense for a fourth person to enter with the intent of killin' someone -- they'd be at a huge disadvantage."
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"If it's true that Matt was in the first room, why didn't he drink any alcohol?"
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WinterCoat wrote:
Brandy shook her head. "I don't think it could've been Ivan or Haley. They're so disconnected from this whole thing that it seems almost implausible. Plus, there was no evidence that there'd been a speed circle drawn. The only thing that could be argued to be used as a circle would be the paint in the art room, but it seems like so much extra work for this whole thing to go off without a hitch.
"That's my biggest problem: this whole scenario is so complex n' vague that it's hard to figure out the true goal of it all. Why would someone who couldn't see what was happenin' rush in to kill someone? Why would Benjamin kill, if he did? Where's Matt? What was the point in purposely screwin' with the picture? Even if I wanted to throw you n' Oliver back under suspicion, neither of you had a clue what was goin' on inside, so it still wouldn't make sense for a fourth person to enter with the intent of killin' someone -- they'd be at a huge disadvantage."
"That's my biggest problem: this whole scenario is so complex n' vague that it's hard to figure out the true goal of it all. Why would someone who couldn't see what was happenin' rush in to kill someone? Why would Benjamin kill, if he did? Where's Matt? What was the point in purposely screwin' with the picture? Even if I wanted to throw you n' Oliver back under suspicion, neither of you had a clue what was goin' on inside, so it still wouldn't make sense for a fourth person to enter with the intent of killin' someone -- they'd be at a huge disadvantage."
"I'm not so sure anyone intentionally interfered with the pachinko room pictures," Seb said. "The mirror was already there to begin with. All anyone did was remove the mirror afterwards to help conceal what had happened.
"As for the speed spell, I don't think there was one drawn outside the challenge area. It, for sake of argument, Ivan or Haley really did kill Benjamin, I think they first took 5 minutes getting to the challenge area (12:30-12:35). They then drew the magic circle in the elevator, the elevator being how they got in in the first place, and used it to cast a speed spell on themselves. With that extra speed they killed Benjamin and returned back to the lobby in just 4 minutes (12:35-12:39). I'm not really convinced this is what actually happened though, it sounds a bit absurd and like you said doesn't really make much sense in the grand scheme of things anyway."
Doctor Nanjo wrote:
"Seems like you're having a tough time."
"If it's true that Matt was in the first room, why didn't he drink any alcohol?"
"If it's true that Matt was in the first room, why didn't he drink any alcohol?"
"That's... a good point," Seb said reluctantly. "Someone drunk a little alcohol, but not much, and Matt would have drunk more. I wonder if that ties into why he looked so exhausted later?"
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"Why doesn't Benjamin have any fatal injuries? Who could have killed him in this way? He was likely put through excruciating pain, but not to the point of passing out."
"So where is the fatal injury? Why try to figure out who did it if you don't even know how?"
Belphegor asks with a twinge of pity, as if watching someone struggle in their last moments.
"Also, there were some unusual things with the blood around Benjamin's corpse. Please review them."
Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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"I know for a fact that I hit the knockout gas on the room I was lookin' at, which was the pachinko room. Daniel was the one who was lookin' at the torture room... what if in his tired state, he accidentally hit the fatal gas button on Benjamin? Not that the he could see the fella, anyway, since his camera was turned at the wall.
"Or maybe it was the lethal gas that was released as a result of all the challenges bein' failed that killed 'im. One other thing that's strange 'bout the blood near Benjamin is that the blood near his leg wasn't like the blood near the furnace, which was basically black, probably due to the heat. It also suggests that it's older, maybe? The blood by 'is leg almost seems like it came from someone else."
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Re: Danganronpa F6: Beneath the Surface (Chapter 4 Tribunal)
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"For some reason or another, Matt n' Benjamin were in the pachinko room together. It's hard to track down a motive for any o' this, so please forgive me. Benjamin was likely there on account o' him takin' out Klifford, n' maybe Matt went to go look for someone to swap challenges with. Maybe the contents o' recordin' Benjamin left were part of a ploy to get Matt away from the top two floors of the area. Sayin' 'Hey Matt, my dear ol' buddy, let's do each other's challenges!' was probably a way for Benjamin to keep Matt busy.
"Then, uh, maybe they somehow both ended up in the torture room and beat the Hell outta each other, likely after the cameras had been turned to face the walls. In all o' this, the booze challenge was still incomplete, so the gas flooded the area and is what killed Benjamin. But, if that's the case, then where's Matt's body when he should be dead down there, too? If someone somehow let him out through the secret passage, then shouldn't he be required to be here right now?
"I guess the thing I'm most confident in is the blood belongin' to Matt," Brandy concluded. "Sorry for ramblin'."
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WinterCoat wrote:
"I think I figured somethin' out!" Brandy shouted, sounding hopeful. "The blood near Benjamin's body was Matt's originally. The fella was lookin' tired in the picture because he was bein' tortured with the device that makes you feel like Hell. Klifford was in the pachinko room, n' Benjamin was in the booze room at ten after midnight. Matt must've been the one Daniel saw at 12:20. One way or another, Benjamin killed someone, probably Klifford, with the elevator. As a result of killin' the doctor, he didn't have the time nor will to complete the liquor challenge.
"For some reason or another, Matt n' Benjamin were in the pachinko room together. It's hard to track down a motive for any o' this, so please forgive me. Benjamin was likely there on account o' him takin' out Klifford, n' maybe Matt went to go look for someone to swap challenges with. Maybe the contents o' recordin' Benjamin left were part of a ploy to get Matt away from the top two floors of the area. Sayin' 'Hey Matt, my dear ol' buddy, let's do each other's challenges!' was probably a way for Benjamin to keep Matt busy.
"Then, uh, maybe they somehow both ended up in the torture room and beat the Hell outta each other, likely after the cameras had been turned to face the walls. In all o' this, the booze challenge was still incomplete, so the gas flooded the area and is what killed Benjamin. But, if that's the case, then where's Matt's body when he should be dead down there, too? If someone somehow let him out through the secret passage, then shouldn't he be required to be here right now?
"I guess the thing I'm most confident in is the blood belongin' to Matt," Brandy concluded. "Sorry for ramblin'."
"For some reason or another, Matt n' Benjamin were in the pachinko room together. It's hard to track down a motive for any o' this, so please forgive me. Benjamin was likely there on account o' him takin' out Klifford, n' maybe Matt went to go look for someone to swap challenges with. Maybe the contents o' recordin' Benjamin left were part of a ploy to get Matt away from the top two floors of the area. Sayin' 'Hey Matt, my dear ol' buddy, let's do each other's challenges!' was probably a way for Benjamin to keep Matt busy.
"Then, uh, maybe they somehow both ended up in the torture room and beat the Hell outta each other, likely after the cameras had been turned to face the walls. In all o' this, the booze challenge was still incomplete, so the gas flooded the area and is what killed Benjamin. But, if that's the case, then where's Matt's body when he should be dead down there, too? If someone somehow let him out through the secret passage, then shouldn't he be required to be here right now?
"I guess the thing I'm most confident in is the blood belongin' to Matt," Brandy concluded. "Sorry for ramblin'."
"There is no device that hurts you," Seb corrected. "It detects your pain, but something else needs to inflict that pain. In other words, someone needs to torture you; it's a two-person challenge.
"Also, whoever was in the torture room at 12:20 is the one who killed Klifford. 12:20 is when you saw someone, probably Klifford, being dragged across the floor, right? That was when someone down in the torture room was dragging them using the metal wire, so that they could be teleported into the elevator shaft and subsequently crushed.
"As for the blood... Well, my thinking was that it was the same blood as was dripping down through the grate. I'm not sure about that though. I guess it's also possible that was blood splashing up through the hole in the elevator floor when it crushed Klifford? Actually it seems likely that there would have been splatter when that happened, and the killer would have had to have been inside the elevator to control it. They couldn't call it up to the second floor from down in the torture room, they would need to get inside to do that."
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Belphegor turns to Sebastian.
"Also, there's a puddle of blood under Benjamin, not just a stain on him. Your reasoning that someone would be in the elevator in that situation is correct, however."
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WinterCoat wrote:
If someone somehow let him out through the secret passage, then shouldn't he be required to be here right now?
"Also, about that, there's no rule about anyone needing to attend tribunals. Indeed I left before the first one was even over. If Matt's alive, he isn't required to be here."
Doctor Nanjo wrote:
"What suggests that Benjamin and Matt fought? The wounds on Benjamin do not suggest they were struggled against."
Belphegor turns to Sebastian.
"Also, there's a puddle of blood under Benjamin, not just a stain on him. Your reasoning that someone would be in the elevator in that situation is correct, however."
Belphegor turns to Sebastian.
"Also, there's a puddle of blood under Benjamin, not just a stain on him. Your reasoning that someone would be in the elevator in that situation is correct, however."
"Oh, an entire puddle? Right... then... I don't see how it could be from anyone other than Matt. Unless Benjamin vomited blood?"
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