@Mori: Only if you wear a pretty little dress and make up....

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@ CI: ....Harsh, man. ...How cruel.

Taking away a man's manliness. D=

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As for why Phoenix/Maya isn't more popular among fans, I think it has to do with Maya herself. She may be 17 (19 by the end of GS3) but she rarely acts it. She can handle stressful situations better than most people reasonably could, to her credit, but she's also very silly. Her maturity comes and goes sometimes.

Phoenix isn't exactly a model of adulthood himself, but he is a full seven years older than her. That's not much of a difference once they're older, but the idea of a 24 year old man dating a 17 year old who acts like she's 13 just doesn't appeal to me (and to others, I'm sure). And fandoms aren't made up of "years in the future" fics.

Though I'll be interested to see if GS3 increases or discourages the Phoenix/Maya fans. I was never really interested in the pairing, but GS3 really solidified for me that they just don't fit romantically.

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I Played all 4 and I still support P/M.

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Do you...have anything else to add?

Also, didn't I just wansig you? It's still too big :P

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Sorry. I'll get rid of this one too.

....and No. Not much too add. I'm just trying to say I played GS3 and it didn't really change any point of view for me.

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Last edited by Wocky Kitaki on Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well, as I've said before, 3-5 was very kind--probably purposefully--to nearly every couple you can possibly think of. I think there's at least one moment that will make a shipper of every major couple happy.

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Armstrong/Wellington?!

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Everyones has their own opinions. I'm sticking with /

What? They're cute together!

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Hm, well that's interesting. I would have thought GS3 would provoke either an "Aha, once again, Phoenix rushes to Maya's rescue!" or "Hmm, Maya has no jealousy reaction to Phoenix and all these women..." reaction.

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Maya's reaction to Phoenix's reaction to Ayame--while not exactly jealousy--was rather interesting. Not really all that romantic in my eyes, but very easy to read that way if you want.

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That gave me an aneurysm.

Also, I didn't exactly support Maya/Phoenix, but I could have swore it was more than likely coming, especially with the addition of Pearl as a clever plot device, which I supposed was to spark some interest in eachother. I could've sworn they'd use Pearl as a plot device to hint that Phoenix and Maya may just very well end up together, with the way she acts and the things she says. You know, her hints that aren't meant to be taken seriously at the time, but you find out are true in the end, in a twist of irony sort of way.

But, I have yet to play Gyakuten Saiban 3, so I'm probably jumping the gun a bit.

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I don't like the pairing x they don't seem like a couple, I find them more as brother and sister.

I like the pairings:
x
x
x
x
x
x

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Hi,

I think and are kind of cute together. They're obviously good friends and they do care for each other in some way. Whether that equates to romantic longing I'm not sure. It could just be a running gag when Pearls teases them about it.


Maya is a friendly, nice person and its worth saying that when they first meet, right off the bat Maya wants to be friends, calling him "Nick" rather than "Phoenix" or "Mr. Wright".
I do agree Maya acts about 12 or 13 though at times. Phoenix is easy going though too.
Sorry for the long post ;-)

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Hmmm.. been thinking about Phoenix/Edgeworth too.
I'm not sure if there's actual shipping but I like the dynamic of them being both enemies and friends at the same time. Why was Phoenix so harsh - "Don't mention that name!" ;D

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Hmm...I like the idea of Phoenix/Edgeworth but only as rivals or close friends but I don't think it'd work out as lovers.

I was really happy when it said on wikipedia in Maya's section: hints of a crush on Phoenix. I haven't played GS3 yet though so I'm a bit unsure of what to support (but Phoenix/Maya still rocks. Period.)

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I don't think they're lovers, you're right. But I do agree they (Phoenix/Edgeworth) are rivals and *sort of* friends, they have respect for one another.

They are two sides of a coin IMO.
I think Maya and Phoenix may have a wee crush on each other but they won't admit it. They're comfortable around each other though ;)
Was Pearl introduced as a plot device to exacerbate shipping between Maya/Phoenix or what?

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Last edited by grim_tales on Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Phoenix/Maya does rock...indeed...

However, you're talking about wikipedia, not exactly the first choice for reliable information. If wikipedia told you shoving a gerbil in your ass through a tube was good for you, would you do so?

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One ship I don't think will ever happen (TBH this one never crossed my mind) - is and - I mean fair enough theyre closer in age than Phoenix/Maya, but 1) Mia is Phoenx's boss and 2) She's.. er, dead, which is one large onion in the ointment if you ask me.
So I'll go with and :)
Someone on another board mentioned Phoenix and an older Pearl - now that's just wrong IMO. Phoenix would be more than twice as old as then.

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Thank you! *waves* You're cool by me~.

...I always thought Maya should be with someone who can keep up with her... spastic attitude. Larry sure can. XD

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If anything, after GS3, I don't think Pearl's "shipping" of P/M has anything to do with it being canon. She's just being an extremely romantic little girl. Phoenix brushes her off as delusional at one point, in regards to him and Maya. Likewise, when Maya shows interest in Max, Phoenix doesn't get upset. And when Phoenix blushes around Mareka, Maya doesn't say a word. As I've always said, Pearl liking Phoenix and Maya is character devlopment for Pearl--NOT Phoenix and Maya themselves. Not with the way they act.

As for Phoenix and Edgeworth, it's very possible things wouldn't work out. They're very different and have a lot of things going against them in terms of a relationship. But I don't think it's an impossible relationship by any means, and I think if they were going to get into a relationship, knowing the impact a breakup could have on their friendship, I'm sure both would be wholly commited to making it work.

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Actually, one of the things I think is unique and really neat about the Phoenix-Maya relationship is that the game throws all of these devices that a general audience is attuned to seeing as foreshadowing of romance at them--Pearl shipping them, Phoenix being forced to weigh his love for her against doing the right thing.

But the series does something unique with it--instead of using these as a device to show that the two characters are in love, it uses them to show that they're not. Nothing develops after those triggers, and Phoenix and Maya become even more comfortable in knowing what they are to each other--platonic/friends family--after the outside urging. Pearl (and Larry) explicitly pointing out their romantic potential to them doesn't spark anything. Phoenix coming very close to losing Maya forever doesn't spark anything. The game shows, at least from my perception, that no matter how one tries to rock the boat with them, even traditional romantic cliches, their relationship is stable and secure as it is.

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Yes! They seem to have similar qualites and they are about the same spastics though Larry is a little more!

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I agree with Larry/Maya. They'd be good for each other. I also just plain LOVE Mia and Souryuu together :D They're so cute!

And NaruMitsu is practically canon, it's so played up. I'm sorry, but, "unnecessary feeings?" There's so much sexual tension between those two it's IRRITATING. I so thought that Phoenix should have said something else when he thanks Miles by giving him the whip.

That's a very good point, I never thought of that.
And apologies, I may have said "right off the bat" in reference to when Maya is her bubbly self and is calling him "Nick". Well I'm just playing AA again and that isnt true.

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Practically canon my ass...

Unnecessary feelings could mean a million different things. Besides, practically canon would mean that one or the other clearly had romantic feelings for the others. Any such feelings are purely fan-created and do not exist within the games.

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agreed. and he said himself that it was unease and uncertainty. Unless you think that unease means the same thing as "I want to smooch your face off!"

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As far as P/E goes, my favorite moment has always been right after the confession scene where Phoenix calmly tells Edgeworth that his bad dreams aren't real, and he's going to prove him innocent no matter what.

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I agree, awkwardness doesn't necessarily mean they have the hots for each other. I always assumed it was because Edgeworth is emotionally stunted (due to his traumatic past) and therefore can't really express his feelings around anybody.. especially somebody who knows him so well.

I do like their relationship though, as close friends. 2-4 FTW!

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I can't decide actually.. I am a bit of a / supporter (harking back to the Pokémon days and Ash and Misty ). The way Phoenix and Maya behave doesnt necessarily mean romance, but 1) They're clearly comfortable around each other 2) They're good friends, who care for each other a lot, even if only in a platonic way.
In 2-4 Phoenix's line "I can't even save the person closest to me!"
3) And then there's . Maybe Maya talked to Pearls a lot about Nick and she just got the wrong end of the stick? Also Phoenix blushed and was embarrased when Pearls started blabbing about Maya being his "special someone".

:)

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Well, I've already talked about most of those points in this thread, but I do think it's interesting that you think them being clearly comfortable with each other as they supports romance--because romance would be a change in their current relationship, and I would think that would create some measure of tension. But if they're that comfortable as they are now...

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Oh hush, I love them as a couple.

Hey, Sabra makes a perfect valid point, no need to tell her to hush...

I love Phoenix and Maya as a couple, so next time someone talks against them, I'll just tell them to hush...

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Sorry that I don't totally agree with you, Atari. But you're still cool for being a fellow fan. ;D

I LOVE Phoenix/Miles like the next fan does, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's canon. Although I DO personally think it has more potential of having some chemistry than any other relationship among character-parings that AREN'T canon, either.

No offense to certain posters here, but... This is a debate thread. If you don't like people saying these things about your precious OTP and want to try to hush them, then I think you're better off not posting here and go back to 'Favorite pairings'.

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Whoah, I think my "hush" was taken a little to seriously. No offense meant to Sabra or anyone, but I wasn't being serious.

I'm clearly not meant for debating this, so let's just go back to that :)

Raelle, good point. But why does Maya (mostly Maya) get embarrassed about it?
I said "[Being comfortable] doesn't necessarily support romance" and that in itself doesn't. As someone (can't remember who) said, its interesting Pearls's shipping of them isnt used by the game to show romance. In fact it's the opposite.
The most supportive line is "I can't even save the person closest to me" (and what do they "really" do when they go out for burgers?) - though even that line could mean Maya is Nick's best friend. It's open to interpretation.
But they do say many people fall for their friends...

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I'd be pretty darned embarrassed if my little cousins couldn't shut up about me being in love with my best friend. It's a good thing they don't know any of my friends, because I'm sure that's just what would happen...

After JFA, I thought that Phoenix/Maya would become canon in GS3. It really was a classic set up, with her getting kidnapped and Phoenix "realizing how much she means to him now that she's gone" etc (and I wasn't looking forward to it!). But it just doesn't happen in GS3. They don't reference back to 2-4 as if Phoenix has gained some new insight in his feelings for Maya. When she gets in trouble again he acts pretty much the same as he did the last time. And both of them continue to brush off Pearl's comments without that much of a fuss.

The end of the series features several heartfelt declarations, and it would have been a perfect time for Maya to say something revealing to Phoenix about her feelings, if she had any. But she doesn't, nor does Phoenix. Despite every golden oppertunity handed to them, they remain just friends. Years later, they're still just friends.

The fact that they have every chance in the world to become a couple throughout the series, and it just doesn't happen, kills the chemistry for me (in addition to Maya herself, I'll admit >.>), unlike other fanon couples which don't even get recognized as possibilities. Canon can't shoot it down if it doesn't even acknowledge it! (*runs away with Gant/Karma and Takita/Makoto*)

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I agree, I thought and was hoping they'd do *something* at the end of JFA, maybe put in a line/hint somewhere, but they don't.

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Last edited by grim_tales on Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think that couples are the sum of their parts.

Taken out of context, the "person closest to me" line could indeed be read as romantic. Phoenix is defining her as someone uniquely precious in his life, because she has a unique role in his life that no one else can fill. (On the other hand, if he meant it romantically, it's much easier to just say "the woman I love") Likewise, having a child pick up on romantic tension is a plot device that has been used many times in the past to indicate two people with romantic feelings towards one another. But, in cases like this, the GREATEST indicators should come from the characters themselves.

I believe that a measure of awkwardness is important. If two people's interactions are awkward, yet they continually seek one another out, that indicates to me that there is something about the status quo that they want to be changed. But if two people are comfortable where they are, then what's the impetus to change? Maya gives every indication that she believes in him absolutely, that she wants to be helpful to him, that she thinks of him as family.

But when it comes to Phoenix, she's not possessive. Now, I don't mean that Maya has to turn into some sort of shrill, shrieking harpy every time Phoenix glances at another woman, but Maya doesn't respond to his attraction at all, except to tease him about it. And that's because these women aren't a threat to her position in his life. It's the same with Phoenix. When Maya finds other men attractive, he doesn't even blink.

Now, if one or the other was serious about someone else, I could see some unease there, but not because they're romantically attracted, but because a new person can throw off the dynamic they have right now that's so precious to both of them. But since they're not actually in a relationship in the games, if they WANTED to be, I would expect stronger feelings in reaction to the idea of the other finding someone else physically attractive, if only because they don't have the security of a romantic relationship to fall back on.

All right, Phoenix and Edgeworth time. It's true that Edgeworth is awkward around a lot of people, so you can't really use that as decisive proof that Edgeworth has a crush on any particular person. I laughed at the "feelings" line too, but that isn't "proof" either, since as others have pointed out, Edgeworth clarified that Phoenix wasn't bringing out feelings of luuurve, but making him question the path he was walking.

But I DO find it interesting, especially in comparion to Maya and Phoenix, Edgeworth and Phoenix can be surprisingly possessive towards one another. The "I'm the only one that knows the real Edgeworth" line is brought up a lot, but think about it for a second. Phoenix himself is defining that he is special and irreplaceable in Edgeworth's life. He's talking to a man that knew Edgeworth just as long as he did. He doesn't even consider the fact that Gumshoe has known Edgeworth four times as long as he has. ONLY he knows Edgeworth. ONLY he can help him. He's SPECIAL to Edgeworth in a way no one else is.

I can't see Phoenix being that way towards Maya. And, in a way, that's kind of a good thing. The dramatic climax of 2-4 would have been quite a bit different if Phoenix had said something along the lines of "I'm the person closest to her, and I can't even save her!" But do you see the difference there? Phoenix defines what Maya is to him, but there's never any indication he goes as far as to try to define what he means to her.

And, in 3-5, it's Edgeworth that is poking around in Phoenix's old relationships. It's Edgeworth that's smiling bitterly and darting glances off to the side when he comments on what's going on between Phoenix and Ayame. They could have easily used Larry; he has a reason to want to know what's up between Phoenix and Ayame, considering he's canonically attracted to one of the two. (Ayame, not Phoenix. ) If they wanted to imply Maya was interested, they had time to do that or add a scene or two. But they didn't.

As always, that doesn't mean P/E is canonically canon-canon, but it is an interesting contrast, for what it's worth.

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Last edited by musouka on Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Interesting post. Phoenix/Maya: If Phoenix really did think of Maya in *that* way, why didnt he just say that? And you're right - we know what thinks of but not the other way round.

Interesting also if the "person closest to me" line had been replaced with "the woman I love", that would have been too OTT, IMO. "The person closest to me" is more subtle.

Suppose it *had* been like that? Maybe something like this...?

Phoenix: And I can't even save the woman I love...
Huh?... the woman I lo.. what did I just say?!

(Flash frame of Maya, either in her channeling outfit or a different sexier outfit).

Strange.. why did I just picture Maya.. looking like that?

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