Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
GearsoftheApparatus
Happiness Punch! wrote:
I just have a problem with 2D fighting games in general, especially those in anime style (Guilty Gear, Street Fighter, king of fighters) All of them look the same and I can't tell the difference.
What the shit... how can you not tell the difference between SNK art and Capcom art? Play SVC Chaos: SNK vs Capcom, and then play Marvel vs Capcom... if you still can't tell the difference between the two art styles, well, I hear optometric technology has come a long way.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
GearsoftheApparatus
MoronSonOfBoron wrote:
Frankly, Gear, ease of use is actually a selling point. I've never been a fan of arcane timing and button-mashing, and neither have a lot of people I've met.
Appealing to the mainstream does not a good game make. Also, button mashing? You can only get away with button mashing in 3-D fighters such as Tekken and Soul Calibur(as proved by my anecdotal evidence).
Actually, that statement was so ignorant and misinformed that I'm going to go ahead and assume that you don't know the meaning of 'button-mashing, thus, I shall I explain it you.
Button-mashing is simply put - pounding the crap out of the controller, having no idea what you're actually doing. If you're button mashing, then you aren't trying to pull off moves, you hitting random buttons hoping something cool happens.
This doesn't work in 2-D fighters, at all. You need to know exactly what you're doing, and you need to be able to do it quickly, and efficiently.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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But generally you need to notice that in 2D fighters its generally a tweeked version of Street Fighter 2 or Fatal Fury Engines. After all those each 2D fighter had evolved with its own style of play from these original Engines. Hence why there are tons of doujin fighters out there. 3D fighters on the other had had come into play fairly recently. And by that I mean that they got popular in the PS2 game era when Polygons and such became morr defined and they looked like people instead of guys with pointy elbows and square chests. Though, Soul Edge was a great looking 3D fighter on the PS1.
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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Quote:
What the shit... how can you not tell the difference between SNK art and Capcom art? Play SVC Chaos: SNK vs Capcom, and then play Marvel vs Capcom... if you still can't tell the difference between the two art styles, well, I hear optometric technology has come a long way.
I didn't mean the art style, but the whole layout and setup. They're just so identical~
Okay, I think I'll replace that "2D games in general, especially in anime style" with "Japanese 2D fighting games in general".
Last edited by Happiness Punch! on Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
MoronSonOfBoron wrote:
Frankly, Gear, ease of use is actually a selling point. I've never been a fan of arcane timing and button-mashing, and neither have a lot of people I've met.
Button-mashing is simply put - pounding the crap out of the controller, having no idea what you're actually doing. If you're button mashing, then you aren't trying to pull off moves, you hitting random buttons hoping something cool happens.
This doesn't work in 2-D fighters, at all. You need to know exactly what you're doing, and you need to be able to do it quickly, and efficiently.
And why do players button-mash?
Because the layout is complex and the learning curve intimidating.
Making a game approachable means more people will have more fun, and then after whetting their appetites on a simpler game they might move on to support the more complex "hardcore" games that you tout so vehemently. Without some influx of new players who are interested in investing time (and money) into games, a genre is in danger of stagnating and ultimately becoming uninteresting as they start to overlap, as many laymen here have pointed out to you, and as EZ has just pointed out with the "true heart" of all 2D fighting games.
This is why Soul Calibur was/is lauded, for it's relatively easy-to-understand control layout (which is itself a departure from traditional fighting games, but one of several for this series), ultimately securing it a broader fanbase.
In the meantime, go cheer yourself up.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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Happiness Punch! wrote:
So I prefer games where they use actual fighting styles and stick to them.
Seeing your name and avatar, what about One Piece: Grand Adventure? >_>
Quote:
Appealing to the mainstream does not a good game make. Also, button mashing? You can only get away with button mashing in 3-D fighters such as Tekken and Soul Calibur(as proved by my anecdotal evidence).
Haven't you thought that your friends were just horrible and you had a decent grasp on the controls? >_>
I managed to win every single match at a party I once went to, but I had an edge because I knew what I was doing, although I'm not obsessed with SC...
Quote:
Shut up. Saying "LOL YOU'RE JUST PASSING YOUR OPINION AS FACT" is not a valid argument, nor does it dismiss anything. It just makes you look stupid because you can't counter something so dumb and base as "SC sucks" with some reasons why.
Are you being sarcastic? o_0
SC rules
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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Happiness Punch! wrote:
3D for me. Or as long the characters are rendered in 3D. Tekken and Soul Calibur fan here. Virtua Fighter is OK but I hate all the characters.
I just have a problem with 2D fighting games in general, especially those in anime style (Guilty Gear, Street Fighter, king of fighters) All of them look the same and I can't tell the difference. The characters seems to have a lot less fighting moves and every one of them either have magical powers or use a pet to aid in battle.
I like it when it's a bit more realistic. That doesn't mean I consider Tekken and Soul Calibur realistic because they aren't, but but I think 2D fighting games have gone a bit too far to the unrealistic side today. I mean that you can't create a good character unless they have magical powers or powers that defies gravity.
So I prefer games where they use actual fighting styles and stick to them.
I just have a problem with 2D fighting games in general, especially those in anime style (Guilty Gear, Street Fighter, king of fighters) All of them look the same and I can't tell the difference. The characters seems to have a lot less fighting moves and every one of them either have magical powers or use a pet to aid in battle.
I like it when it's a bit more realistic. That doesn't mean I consider Tekken and Soul Calibur realistic because they aren't, but but I think 2D fighting games have gone a bit too far to the unrealistic side today. I mean that you can't create a good character unless they have magical powers or powers that defies gravity.
So I prefer games where they use actual fighting styles and stick to them.
Probably the dumbest thing on CR ever.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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3D games use "real" fighting styles as much as a Jet Li movie uses real "martial arts." And realistic? Because Soul Calibur's completely inane storyline about evil swords, people who don't die, zombie men with axes, and a woman whose breasts seem to enlarge themselves at will is realistic, right?
I like myself some Tekken, but that's only because I enjoy some of the characters--Heihachi, mostly--but I've never thought of Tekken as 'more realistic' or even '3D,' since the game only works on two real axes--you can't really "run around." Tekken is fun for it's story (when they put it in), but the game is not one I play constantly.
As for 2D games, what...I mean what do you want from them? You're claiming that people use "magic powers," but since when are you trying to play a game in which the fighting mechanic is based solely on realism? If you are, there isn't a single fighting game in existence that fulfills that requirement. Even Virtua Fighter, which claims to be 'the most realistic' features people doing things that only those in extreme, peak physical condition MIGHT be able to do; and even then the boss of the game is a Terminator 2 ripoff.
Actually I am just going to stop myself here because I honestly can't really fathom what your post is even implying. Why are you playing video games or watching anime in the first place if things like 'magic powers' to be something making a game too unrealistic? And even if you don't consider Tekken and SC realistic, you're still implying that they are somehow more realistic than 2D games.
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I was talking about the realism in gameplay and the character performance.
I consider Tekken and Soul Calibur more realistic because the fighting moves are smoother and a lot slower, and some of them seem like moves you could perform in real life (The moves are performed by motion actors, after all)
Street Fighter and King of Fighters on the other hand, have characters that are incredibly fast and jump higher than we can do. And add the projectiles and whatevertheheck powers to the mix.
I don't really care about how fucked up the story is or how unrealistic the characters look, just how the fights are performed. And I just prefer the what I consider more realistic style used in 3D fighting games.
@kryptonite: Haven't played, don't want to hear the horrendous 4kids dub :/
Last edited by Happiness Punch! on Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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But nothing can salvage Sanji, but still; it's fun...
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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Happiness Punch! wrote:
I consider Tekken and Soul Calibur more realistic because the fighting moves are smoother and a lot slower, and some of them seem like moves you could perform in real life (The moves are performed by motion actors, after all)
I'd remove these two from the list and add Virtua Fighter to the mix. The only time unrealistic jumps are performed is when you do the huge jumps to down attack, and those are rarely seen as they're too easily counterable.
Quote:
I don't really care about how fucked up the story is or how unrealistic the characters look, just how the fights are performed. And I just prefer the what I consider more realistic style used in 3D fighting games.
Again, Virtua Fighter 5 or nothing.
BTW: There was a realistic "fighting game" on the SNES. It was called Taekwondo, never released outside of Korea and Japan. It was very realistic, and very goddamned boring.
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GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
Soul Calibur sucks because it's an incredibly broken piece of shit.
The weapon system is the worst attempt at creating depth I've ever seen, yet it's probably the only reason anyone takes it seriously.
Best of all is the fact that a novice can go up against an adept an actually deal a decent amount of damage to him, hell, you could probably even fluke a round. Tekken is the bloody same, I played one of Tekken obsessed friends who has played Tekken DR every day for the past year, I don't even know basic combos for any of the characters, yet I consistently manage to win against him.
That shit doesn't happen in a well-made 2D fighter, adept players can destroy novices without getting a hit, and they can pull it off consistently. No fluky victories.
The weapon system is the worst attempt at creating depth I've ever seen, yet it's probably the only reason anyone takes it seriously.
Best of all is the fact that a novice can go up against an adept an actually deal a decent amount of damage to him, hell, you could probably even fluke a round. Tekken is the bloody same, I played one of Tekken obsessed friends who has played Tekken DR every day for the past year, I don't even know basic combos for any of the characters, yet I consistently manage to win against him.
That shit doesn't happen in a well-made 2D fighter, adept players can destroy novices without getting a hit, and they can pull it off consistently. No fluky victories.
I went to NEC4 a couple years back for the SC2 and GGXX tournaments. There was this girl Karen there, one of the top Ivy players in the country.
If you think you can mash and win against her you're sadly mistaken. She racked up a 60+ win streak on the SC2 machine while waiting for the tourney to start.
You just play shitty players.
Ergheiz Zero: A few characters in SC have projectiles.
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
I went to NEC4 a couple years back for the SC2 and GGXX tournaments. There was this girl Karen there, one of the top Ivy players in the country.
If you think you can mash and win against her you're sadly mistaken. She racked up a 60+ win streak on the SC2 machine while waiting for the tourney to start.
You just play shitty players.
If you think you can mash and win against her you're sadly mistaken. She racked up a 60+ win streak on the SC2 machine while waiting for the tourney to start.
You just play shitty players.
SC2 was far less broken than SC3. In fact, I'd take SC2 over SC3 any day.
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
GearsoftheApparatus
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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I really like both equally.
GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
SC2 was still broken as hell, the original was the only one that came close to being decent.
I knew your going to complain about something...I didn't expect for you to complain about Soul Caliber.
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
GearsoftheApparatus
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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Though I will say that 2D games, with time, get much easier to learn than 3D fighters. I mean, yes it's friggin' hard for any 2D fighter newbie to just pick up a 2D fighting game, but once they know everything about that game, from the fundamentals to advanced strategies, they can apply a lot of such tactics into other fighting games. This is especially true with the Capcom games. I started playing 3rd Strike seriously since Feb. 2003, and since then I've branched off to other Capcom fighters such as CvS2, Super Turbo, etc. (though Marvel is a completely different monster)
I usually play 2D fighters so I'm not too knowledgable about those stuff. However, I have played both Tekken and VF, and they both play quite differently from each other. For instance, Tekken's known for somewhat patient play, waiting for the opportunity to score big damage in juggles and whatnot. Virtua Fighter is more technical(just learning Akira would be a miracle) but is surprisingly focused around rushdown play. But anyway, they're both fun for their respective styles. Soul Calibur, I just don't like though, but I'm too lazy to explain myself right now. haha
But uhhhh yeah, that's about it. =o
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GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
SC2 was still broken as hell, the original was the only one that came close to being decent.
Soul Edge/Blade?
While fun, it wasn't nearly as interesting as SC2.
And the weapon breaking mechanism was downright stupid.
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
What led you to believe I wouldn't complain about SC?
It wasn't popular enough such as DOA, Mortal Combat, or Virtua Fighter.
You are just full of surprises.
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
Soul Calibur sucks because it's an incredibly broken piece of shit.
The weapon system is the worst attempt at creating depth I've ever seen, yet it's probably the only reason anyone takes it seriously.
Best of all is the fact that a novice can go up against an adept an actually deal a decent amount of damage to him, hell, you could probably even fluke a round. Tekken is the bloody same, I played one of Tekken obsessed friends who has played Tekken DR every day for the past year, I don't even know basic combos for any of the characters, yet I consistently manage to win against him.
That shit doesn't happen in a well-made 2D fighter, adept players can destroy novices without getting a hit, and they can pull it off consistently. No fluky victories.
The weapon system is the worst attempt at creating depth I've ever seen, yet it's probably the only reason anyone takes it seriously.
Best of all is the fact that a novice can go up against an adept an actually deal a decent amount of damage to him, hell, you could probably even fluke a round. Tekken is the bloody same, I played one of Tekken obsessed friends who has played Tekken DR every day for the past year, I don't even know basic combos for any of the characters, yet I consistently manage to win against him.
That shit doesn't happen in a well-made 2D fighter, adept players can destroy novices without getting a hit, and they can pull it off consistently. No fluky victories.
I went to NEC4 a couple years back for the SC2 and GGXX tournaments. There was this girl Karen there, one of the top Ivy players in the country.
If you think you can mash and win against her you're sadly mistaken. She racked up a 60+ win streak on the SC2 machine while waiting for the tourney to start.
You just play shitty players.
Ergheiz Zero: A few characters in SC have projectiles.
I agree; button-mashers will never have a chance in hell against an honest-to-goodness "hardcore" gamer. However, I do feel that 3D fighting games do give mashers more of an edge as opposed to 2D fighting games. However, nothing beats "brute force" like knowledge.
Yes, so-called "experts" never seem to read the instruction manual, let alone go through the tutorials.
Take Raphael from SC3, for example. With a few button presses, you can easily perform a seemingly "unstoppable" 3-hit combo and get a few wins. Had they actually studied the game and the character, they would've expanded on their arsenal of moves before being parried by a Guard Impact or surprised by his opponent dodging the attack entirely with a simple sidestep.
(Yes, I've come across such people...all have been dealt with accordingly....
)Personally, I prefer 2D fighting games. Mashers have almost no guarrantee at victory, and it's still a staple in many (if not all) fighting game tourneys. Besides, some things just look better animated;).
I mean, I've been playing SSF2 for years, and I still find something new!
To be honest, I still feel that 3D fighting games are in its early stages. Even with the success of games like Tekken, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, and even Mortal Kombat, I don't think we've seen this genre reach its full potential just yet.
With that said, I wish to address a "challenge" to those who are in the Oceanside, CA area.
I am desperately in the need of challenge. Competing with a computer isn't the same as going against an actual gamer.
Personally, I regret to say that my skills as a gamer has dwindled due to the lack of skilled or dedicated gamers of fighting games.
(Curse you Madden and WoW!) While I may strike fear in 80% of the local gaming population (Reason #2 no one wants to challenge me...sigh....), my skills are not as they were back in high school, where hardcore gamers were always in supply.
Anyone in the Mission/Oceanside area will be able to find me at the Plaza Camino Real mall and the Mission Shopping Center's Gamestop on the weekends. Just look for a "small" dark Samoan with a backpack.
My personal fighting faves are:
-Soul Calibur III
-Tekken 5/Dark Ressurrection
-SSF2T
-CvS2
-GGXX/GGXX:Accent Core
Any takers?
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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If you where more towards the Ontario/Chino CA area, I'd be down.And with much to the challenge that EGX has put out, I too put down a similar one for any in my area.
That's right, I'm producing something. Expect something to come out of my new production studio.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
seems interesting!
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Quote:
It wasn't popular enough such as DOA, Mortal Combat, or Virtua Fighter.
Everyone knows Dead or Alive and Mortal Kombat are shit.
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zuddharina wrote:
Quote:
It wasn't popular enough such as DOA, Mortal Combat, or Virtua Fighter.
Everyone knows Dead or Alive and Mortal Kombat are shit.At least MK had the decency to name their game deception.
It delivered well.
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
GearsoftheApparatus
Attorney Hatman wrote:
GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
SC2 was still broken as hell, the original was the only one that came close to being decent.
Soul Edge/Blade?
While fun, it wasn't nearly as interesting as SC2.
And the weapon breaking mechanism was downright stupid.
>_>
I actually meant Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast.
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GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
Attorney Hatman wrote:
GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
SC2 was still broken as hell, the original was the only one that came close to being decent.
Soul Edge/Blade?
While fun, it wasn't nearly as interesting as SC2.
And the weapon breaking mechanism was downright stupid.
>_>
I actually meant Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast.
Sorry, Soul Edge/Blade is the first one. If you want to talk about something, be more precise.
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Don't mind me, just passing through.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
GearsoftheApparatus
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
Actually, we were talking about the original of the Soul Calibur series... which would obviously be referring to the first Soul Calibur, not Soul Blade/Soul Edge.
Exactly if you where talking about the whole story line, then yes. Soul Blade starts it off, then progressess to Soul Calibur.
But if its overall in game names, Soul Calibur on DC would be the first one of the Calibur series, but 2nd game in the Storyline.
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but i also like Tekken and SSB in 3D too :D !
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That's right, I'm producing something. Expect something to come out of my new production studio.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
GearsoftheApparatus
Super Smash Button (c wut i did thar) is 2D with Polygonal characters/items etcetera.
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GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
2.5D does not exist, you can't have half a bloody dimension.
Fatal Fury 2 onwards? GGIsuka (Even if it sucked?)
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GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
2.5D does not exist, you can't have half a bloody dimension.
Don't be annoying, it's just a term given to those kind of computer graphics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5D#Platforming_games
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
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Ergheiz Zero wrote:
Technically I thinK SSB is considered 2.5D since it plays like a 2D shooter, but has 3D environments & figters.... but meh.. most 2.5D stuff is OK.
Most of the popular fighting games out there are "2.5D" as they are all still played on a 2D fighting plane despite having 3D character models. Smash is an obvious example of this, as well as the SFEX series.
Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
GearsoftheApparatus
Tinker wrote:
GearsoftheApparatus wrote:
2.5D does not exist, you can't have half a bloody dimension.
Don't be annoying, it's just a term given to those kind of computer graphics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5D#Platforming_games
It's a stupid term, used by people who are worthless leeches on society. It's not hard to say that a game is 2D, with polygonal characters and/or environments, but oh no, that's almost a complete sentence - let's instead have a shitty asinine term that makes no sense whatsoever.
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Re: 2D vs 3D. Fighting Games witch D is better?
Guitar Hero God
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:35 pm
Posts: 19
On a more serious note, I'd definetely say 2-D fighting games (I haven't read most of this thread to be honest, I've just noticed ppl fighting about whether SSB is 3-D, 2-D, 2.5-D, 23493280432489320423-D, etc.
Games like Marvel vs Capcom 1 and 2, Capcom vs SNK, all the street fighters, they pretty much overpower any possible 3-D fighting game out there.
ESPECIALLY Marvel vs Capcom 2.
Guitar Hero 3 Wii Friend Code: 403842201404
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