Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Mia - It's hard for me to write in thread that talks about hating characters because I really like them all (maybe except for one...) Anyway, I think we understood each-other :-)
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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As for Mia I don't see why Maya would need to channel her nor why Phoenix would need to speak with her about it. I think it was pretty clear that after 3-5 he didn't need Mia's advice anymore. As for Maya I'm sure she understood all the same the situation and all.
In a way it is sad though that we never get to see the reactions of the characters. I mean apparently the whole thing was a huge deal. You would think even though they were in another country both Franny and Edgey would have heard about it.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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I'm not sure about whether or not Maya (or Pearl) would have channelled Mia. I think its possible, but I'm not sure. Sure he may not have needed her help in law anymore, but after everything that had happened to him, I could see Phoenix needing to talk to her if only for comfort. Of course, I can also picture him being unable to face her and asking Maya not to channel her, so it works both ways. I wouldn't be surprised if she got channelled at least once over the course of seven years though.
The other characters probably did more then just hear about it as I could definitely see them trying their best to help him, but their reactions weren't really going to advance the already overburdened plot and there wasn't much they could have done for him except give him moral support, so its probably better that their reactions were left out. Phoenix has such a rich history with all the old cast that short cameos really wouldn't have been satisfying to anyone and they couldn't afford to pull anymore attention away from the new cast. That kind of stuff is what fanfiction and fanart are for after all. :)
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Mia_Fey wrote:
I can't imagine Pearl having a problem with Phoenix's having a daughter unless he really hadn't told Maya and Pearl anything in seven years which I find unlikely considering Maya is alluded to in the second case in a way that indicates that they are still in contact (Steel Samurai videos in his hospital room and reports he has to write on them <_<). Trucy was eight when Phoenix adopted her, so that wouldn't effect Pearl's little fantasy as its pretty clear that Trucy has to be adopted (no one screws around and then immediately end up with an eight year old). Besides, a two minute explanation about who she is would clear that all up in a pretty easy way. I can see Pearl and Trucy being best friends actually.
But Mr. Nick would do anything for Mystic Maya even walk over hot coals!But yeah you're probably right about it not being any big deal, but well considering how Pearls gets when it comes to Phoenix and other women I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen.
Mia_Fey wrote:
I'm not sure about whether or not Maya (or Pearl) would have channelled Mia. I think its possible, but I'm not sure. Sure he may not have needed her help in law anymore, but after everything that had happened to him, I could see Phoenix needing to talk to her if only for comfort. Of course, I can also picture him being unable to face her and asking Maya not to channel her, so it works both ways. I wouldn't be surprised if she got channelled at least once over the course of seven years though.
Yeah I sort of wondered if Mia would be disappointed in him for the incident that caused him to lose his badge or something. That's kinda been on my mind after trial and tribulations. I mean with the way Mia is and all I'd have a hard time with her just accepting what Phoenix did. I'd expect that she'd be a little irritated and angry with him for being so stupid as to accept evidence frm an unknown source.
Mia_Fey wrote:
The other characters probably did more then just hear about it as I could definitely see them trying their best to help him, but their reactions weren't really going to advance the already overburdened plot and there wasn't much they could have done for him except give him moral support, so its probably better that their reactions were left out. Phoenix has such a rich history with all the old cast that short cameos really wouldn't have been satisfying to anyone and they couldn't afford to pull anymore attention away from the new cast. That kind of stuff is what fanfiction and fanart are for after all. :)
True but you'd think that with Edgey and Franny's power as prosecutors they could have done something. You'd think they'd have some influence. As for Gumshoe I guess the rumor that he quit because Phoenix was disbarred wasn't true so I wonder why he did leave? :)
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Quote:
But yeah you're probably right about it not being any big deal, but well considering how Pearls gets when it comes to Phoenix and other women I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen.
Maya: Huh? Who's this?
Phoenix: Girls, this is Trucy, she's... well... my daughter now.
Maya: D-DAUGHTER?! Nick, you've had a daughter all these years and never told us??
Phoenix: Wha? No! I haven't even-
Pearl: N-Nick! How could you?! How could you have a daughter and never tell Mystic Maya! You two should be raising a family together! *slap slap slap*
Phoenix: Gah! Stopit Pearls! Stop! ><
Trucy: I think I'm gonna like my new family. ^^
Quote:
Yeah I sort of wondered if Mia would be disappointed in him for the incident that caused him to lose his badge or something. That's kinda been on my mind after trial and tribulations. I mean with the way Mia is and all I'd have a hard time with her just accepting what Phoenix did. I'd expect that she'd be a little irritated and angry with him for being so stupid as to accept evidence frm an unknown source.
I think she would understand given the circumstances. She's not the type to hold a grudge against Phoenix. He's not perfect, and I doubt she ever expected him to be.
Quote:
True but you'd think that with Edgey and Franny's power as prosecutors they could have done something. You'd think they'd have some influence. As for Gumshoe I guess the rumor that he quit because Phoenix was disbarred wasn't true so I wonder why he did leave?
I dunno about Gumshoe, but I'm one of the few who believes Edgeworth and maybe Franny played a role in helping Phoenix set up the jury system, considering Edgeworth has enough power to manipulate the court the way he did in Case 3-5, I think he'd be able to pull the strings nessesscary to help Phoenix put the jury system together.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Maya: Huh? Who's this?
Phoenix: Girls, this is Trucy, she's... well... my daughter now.
Maya: D-DAUGHTER?! Nick, you've had a daughter all these years and never told us??
Phoenix: Wha? No! I haven't even-
Pearl: N-Nick! How could you?! How could you have a daughter and never tell Mystic Maya! You two should be raising a family together! *slap slap slap*
Phoenix: Gah! Stopit Pearls! Stop! ><
Trucy: I think I'm gonna like my new family. ^^
Hahaha well at least Pearls didn't think Trucy was Phoenix and Iris' She probably would have broke into the prison just to get her hands on Iris.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
I think she would understand given the circumstances. She's not the type to hold a grudge against Phoenix. He's not perfect, and I doubt she ever expected him to be.
On the contrary after winning a case she'd never be able too and everything I believe Mia would be a bit angry at Phoenix as well as disappointed for screwing up like that. She would have expected better of him.
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
I dunno about Gumshoe, but I'm one of the few who believes Edgeworth and maybe Franny played a role in helping Phoenix set up the jury system, considering Edgeworth has enough power to manipulate the court the way he did in Case 3-5, I think he'd be able to pull the strings nessesscary to help Phoenix put the jury system together.
That would be interesting if it was true. I certainly could see Edgeworth and Franziska going through with that plan to help Phoenix. I'm sure even Franziska enjoyed it for obvious reasons.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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That would've been so cool if that happened. And it makes so much sense.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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but I can also see Phoenix himself feeling like he failed her and being too ashamed to face her. Aww.
As for the jury job, absolutely nothing else makes sense except Edgeworth and/or possibly Maya [Kurain Master has political clout, remember?] pulling strings to get him the job. I mean, a disbarred hobo does not get jobs like that otherwise. If only they'd included that information canon in the game, it would be about 3 words?
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
True but you'd think that with Edgey and Franny's power as prosecutors they could have done something. You'd think they'd have some influence. As for Gumshoe I guess the rumor that he quit because Phoenix was disbarred wasn't true so I wonder why he did leave? :)
Except remember that Phoenix confesses to the forging to protect Zak. It's a lie, but it certainly counted as a confession and that would make any denial afterward suspect (Well, more suspect then it would have been in the first place. Remember the judge asks if Phoenix has an explanation and he asks if it would even be heard. The judge responds probably not. There doesn't seem to have been a lot of room for maneuvering here). There really wasn't much that could be done for Phoenix right after all that. It would be interesting if Edgeworth was involved in the Jury System (and in my mind he was because that's the only thing that makes much sense), but we aren't told that in the game so that'll have to just remain a theory. I still hold that the fact that we don't see his friends, doesn't mean that they weren't there. There are a few vague references that indicate that his friends are still around.
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Quote:
Except remember that Phoenix confesses to the forging to protect Zak. It's a lie, but it certainly counted as a confession and that would make any denial afterward suspect (Well, more suspect then it would have been in the first place. Remember the judge asks if Phoenix has an explanation and he asks if it would even be heard. The judge responds probably not. There doesn't seem to have been a lot of room for maneuvering here). There really wasn't much that could be done for Phoenix right after all that. It would be interesting if Edgeworth was involved in the Jury System (and in my mind he was because that's the only thing that makes much sense), but we aren't told that in the game so that'll have to just remain a theory. I still hold that the fact that we don't see his friends, doesn't mean that they weren't there. There are a few vague references that indicate that his friends are still around.
The sad thing is that you'd think the judge would know that Phoenix wasn't the kind of defense attorney to forge evidence. Plus lets face it Edgeworth got off pretty easy when he had to go up against the board due to the SL-9 incident. Was Phoenix really disbarred over forging evidence? Or was he disbarred because he was a legend by that time and probably most of the lawyers wanted to see him gone?
And yeah somehow I think Edgeworth had ties to the Jury system. I have a feeling Edgeworth and even Franziska would know that something was up. They know Phoenix isn't the kind to forge evidence either so I'm sure they just as much wanted to help Phoenix get revenge.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Quote:
Well Edgeworth's situation was somewhat different because he could prove that he hadn't known that the evidence had been forged. Phoenix couldn't prove it. Saying that an eight year old gave it to him in the hallway is not a good answer even if it was the truth. Besides, defense attorneys always get cheated in the PW/AJ world. I wouldn't be surprised if his reputation had something to do with how harsh his sentence was though. We know from the game that the board voted to give him the strictest punishment which means that there were lesser options that could have happened instead. Poor Phoenix. I feel so bad for him when I think about what he must have gone through.
Yeah but their situations are the same in that they both didn't know that they were using forged evidence until it came to light. Edgeworth himself didn't think the SL9 evidence was forged until Gant and Lana confirmed it.
and let's face it with the way people in the prosecutors office didn't like Edgeworth by that time. Why didn't they give him the strictest punishment as well? Edgeworth's reputation was pretty high as well after all. I mean the legendary prosecuutor who was accused of murder THEN finds out he used forged evidence? Yeah I would think the board would have wanted to be very strict with him.
Also if we look at it you'd think everyone associated with Phoenix or who knows him pretty well would figure out that he's not the kind of person who would use forged evidence EVER. I know the Judge is senile but you'd think even he would know that Phoenix was only admitting to it to protect Zak. True he uses ridiculous bluffs to get to the truth sometimes but he'd never forge evidence to do it and I think in a way that his punishment shouldn't have been so severe. What I think is that he was disbarred because he is a legend and other defense attorney's were threatened by him, and well this was their one big chance to make sure Phoenix Wright was out of the picture once and for all.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
Yeah but their situations are the same in that they both didn't know that they were using forged evidence until it came to light. Edgeworth himself didn't think the SL9 evidence was forged until Gant and Lana confirmed it.
and let's face it with the way people in the prosecutors office didn't like Edgeworth by that time. Why didn't they give him the strictest punishment as well? Edgeworth's reputation was pretty high as well after all. I mean the legendary prosecuutor who was accused of murder THEN finds out he used forged evidence? Yeah I would think the board would have wanted to be very strict with him.
and let's face it with the way people in the prosecutors office didn't like Edgeworth by that time. Why didn't they give him the strictest punishment as well? Edgeworth's reputation was pretty high as well after all. I mean the legendary prosecuutor who was accused of murder THEN finds out he used forged evidence? Yeah I would think the board would have wanted to be very strict with him.
The difference is that Lana had testified that Edgeworth knew nothing about the forged evidence when the truth about SL-9 came out. I think even Gant confirms this fact at the end. In Phoenix's situation, there was no one to testify that he didn't know. After all, Kristoph went to a lot of trouble to set Phoenix up, so there was no chance that he was going to confess to the forging and insist that Phoenix didn't know as Lana does for Edgeworth. His friends could believe that he wasn't capable of such a thing all they wanted, but unless they could prove that he didn't know, it wouldn't have changed anything. I do think that Phoenix's reputation factored into his punishment, but there was a distinct difference in the two situations. Neither knew the evidence had been forged, but only Edgeworth had proof that he hadn't known.
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Quote:
The difference is that Lana had testified that Edgeworth knew nothing about the forged evidence when the truth about SL-9 came out. I think even Gant confirms this fact at the end. In Phoenix's situation, there was no one to testify that he didn't know. After all, Kristoph went to a lot of trouble to set Phoenix up, so there was no chance that he was going to confess to the forging and insist that Phoenix didn't know as Lana does for Edgeworth. His friends could believe that he wasn't capable of such a thing all they wanted, but unless they could prove that he didn't know, it wouldn't have changed anything. I do think that Phoenix's reputation factored into his punishment, but there was a distinct difference in the two situations. Neither knew the evidence had been forged, but only Edgeworth had proof that he hadn't known.
Well in that defense Kristoph could have testified and lied enough to save Phoenix from losing his badge and keep the suspicion off himself. I mean he could have easily said that Zak made his daughter give Phoenix the diary page without her knowing it was a fake as well. Therefore they would have considered Zak to be the one at fault and not Phoenix or Trucy. Kristoph was the only one who stood up for Phoenix so why didn't he try to pin the forgery on Zak who by that time had already disappeared and that Phoenix was just an innocent victim?
To be honest it didn't sound like Kristoph did much to support Phoenix at that time.
ah and speaking of Edgeworth I love how Ema describes how prosecutors should be.
"a prosecutor should be cool of wit and furrowed of brow"
That definitely sounds like Edgey to me. XD
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
Well in that defense Kristoph could have testified and lied enough to save Phoenix from losing his badge and keep the suspicion off himself. I mean he could have easily said that Zak made his daughter give Phoenix the diary page without her knowing it was a fake as well. Therefore they would have considered Zak to be the one at fault and not Phoenix or Trucy. Kristoph was the only one who stood up for Phoenix so why didn't he try to pin the forgery on Zak who by that time had already disappeared and that Phoenix was just an innocent victim?
To be honest it didn't sound like Kristoph did much to support Phoenix at that time.
ah and speaking of Edgeworth I love how Ema describes how prosecutors should be.
"a prosecutor should be cool of wit and furrowed of brow"
That definitely sounds like Edgey to me. XD
To be honest it didn't sound like Kristoph did much to support Phoenix at that time.
ah and speaking of Edgeworth I love how Ema describes how prosecutors should be.
"a prosecutor should be cool of wit and furrowed of brow"
That definitely sounds like Edgey to me. XD
Except that Kristoph wanted Phoenix to take the fall and said as much at the end of 4-4. "Both men shamed me and that I couldn't forgive. Both Phoenix Wright and Zak Gramarye got what they deserved" (paraphrased, but I'm sure that the gist is correct). Kristoph set Phoenix up on purpose and certainly wasn't going to come to his rescue. Did he stand up for him in that past? Yes, but recall the circumstances of that time. His plan hadn't gone off as he'd wished because Zak had escaped and so now an element of this plan was out of his control so he watched everyone involved to make sure that he was never in danger. The best way to watch Phoenix was to get close to him and the best way to do that was to befriend him, so standing up for Phoenix would be an easy way to earn his trust. Kristoph didn't need to vote against Phoenix when everybody was already against him, so he played the nice guy and stood up for him to get close to Phoenix. He would not have tried to save Phoenix though. He wanted Phoenix to take the fall as payback for taking that case.
And I agree that Ema's description of a good prosecutor sounds a lot like Edgeworth.
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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It's gotta be the Edge.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Quote:
Except that Kristoph wanted Phoenix to take the fall and said as much at the end of 4-4. "Both men shamed me and that I couldn't forgive. Both Phoenix Wright and Zak Gramarye got what they deserved" (paraphrased, but I'm sure that the gist is correct). Kristoph set Phoenix up on purpose and certainly wasn't going to come to his rescue. Did he stand up for him in that past? Yes, but recall the circumstances of that time. His plan hadn't gone off as he'd wished because Zak had escaped and so now an element of this plan was out of his control so he watched everyone involved to make sure that he was never in danger. The best way to watch Phoenix was to get close to him and the best way to do that was to befriend him, so standing up for Phoenix would be an easy way to earn his trust. Kristoph didn't need to vote against Phoenix when everybody was already against him, so he played the nice guy and stood up for him to get close to Phoenix. He would not have tried to save Phoenix though. He wanted Phoenix to take the fall as payback for taking that case.
Well you got me there, but at least trying to keep Phoenix from losing his badge would have thrown the suspicion off of him because it only made Phoenix more suspicious.
Heh and indeed. I definitely wonder how Ema would feel about Franny and Godot. XD
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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That said, I love Hobohodo, even if he is a bit of a prick. Actually, he reminds me of my own dad... Which is kinda creepy. (not to mention one of my best friends is nearly identical to Trucy in every way...) But still, he's pretty fun, even if I do feel like I'm talking to my dad all the time while I'm playing...
Also, he's fun to draw XD
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Quandtuniverse wrote:
Also, he's fun to draw XD
Because we don't need to draw the spiky hair any more! XDDD
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Hmmm if Hobohodou is such a bad piano player though. I wonder if people pay him a lot of money just to NOT play. XD
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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火曜日 wrote:
Quandtuniverse wrote:
Also, he's fun to draw XD
Because we don't need to draw the spiky hair any more! XDDD
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
I remember people discussing over Hobohodou spoiling Trucy but well as someone brought up the gavinner merchandise he splurged on, but wasn't that like a 15 year advance on Trucy's allowance? That and the three pudding cups thing. Yeah I'd say he's a hobo.
Hmmm if Hobohodou is such a bad piano player though. I wonder if people pay him a lot of money just to NOT play. XD
Hmmm if Hobohodou is such a bad piano player though. I wonder if people pay him a lot of money just to NOT play. XD
True, but that means that he was able to come up with the money for the Gavinners stuff right away (not a small amount of cash to have on hand particularly for something so trivial) which he shouldn't have been able to do if he were truly strapped for cash. Besides, extending credit based on allowance is a pretty standard way to try and teach financial responsibility to kids (and in my experience is often forgotten unless the extension is rather short. I imagine fifteen years is more a joke then anything else :P)
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
well it kinda makes you wonder how much allowance he gives Trucy if a couple albums and concert videos add up to 15 years worth of allowance. But yeah it may just be a joke after all. XD
Well it was more then a couple things. I think it was something in the double digits for both the number of albums and concert videos she bought (Apollo comments about how that was quite a bit of impulse shopping), but I can't recall what the exact numbers are. I think it was basically everything they'd done though. I'll have to replay the case. I think there is another joke in there that has Trucy's allowance coming out to like five dollars (a week maybe? That part I can't remember well either), but if all she has to do is ask Phoenix to buy things for her (he apparently had no trouble giving her that kind of money for stuff she decided she wanted on a whim), then I'm not sure that its an issue. :)
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Mia_Fey wrote:
Well it was more then a couple things. I think it was something in the double digits for both the number of albums and concert videos she bought (Apollo comments about how that was quite a bit of impulse shopping), but I can't recall what the exact numbers are. I think it was basically everything they'd done though. I'll have to replay the case. I think there is another joke in there that has Trucy's allowance coming out to like five dollars (a week maybe? That part I can't remember well either), but if all she has to do is ask Phoenix to buy things for her (he apparently had no trouble giving her that kind of money for stuff she decided she wanted on a whim), then I'm not sure that its an issue. :)
I think it was 3 copies of all 12 albums.
I also remember her saying "I had to get my next year of allowance in advance, though."
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Or maybe that was the cost of the band equipment Trucy was eyeing....
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Incidentally I just find it hard to believe that after all the cases Phoenix had done where he has proved a person's innocence legally and fairly. Suddenly everyone according to Phoenix's words turns against him and calls him a crooked attorney because of that one case. I have to admit it did worry me a little if his friends did turn their backs on him as well as if they believe he really was that crooked.
Still that line the judge said in 4-1 where he stated that Phoenix does belong in the courtroom. Was that him acknowledging that he always believed Phoenix wasn't a cooked attorney who would forge evidence?
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
ah I see then.
Incidentally I just find it hard to believe that after all the cases Phoenix had done where he has proved a person's innocence legally and fairly. Suddenly everyone according to Phoenix's words turns against him and calls him a crooked attorney because of that one case. I have to admit it did worry me a little if his friends did turn their backs on him as well as if they believe he really was that crooked.
Still that line the judge said in 4-1 where he stated that Phoenix does belong in the courtroom. Was that him acknowledging that he always believed Phoenix wasn't a cooked attorney who would forge evidence?
Incidentally I just find it hard to believe that after all the cases Phoenix had done where he has proved a person's innocence legally and fairly. Suddenly everyone according to Phoenix's words turns against him and calls him a crooked attorney because of that one case. I have to admit it did worry me a little if his friends did turn their backs on him as well as if they believe he really was that crooked.
Still that line the judge said in 4-1 where he stated that Phoenix does belong in the courtroom. Was that him acknowledging that he always believed Phoenix wasn't a cooked attorney who would forge evidence?
Recall in 4-1 that it's commented that Olga and Shadi tried to set Phoenix up as a cheat, not really so that he would lose, but because it would cast doubt on all his previous wins and destroy his reputation. The same thing applies to his last case. Although, they wouldn't have been able to find evidence that Phoenix ever used forged evidence in his previous cases (because he didn't use any) it would still cast doubt on whether or not he really won those cases fairly. Young Klavier even comments on how, if he hadn't gotten that tip, things would have gone just as Phoenix wanted again. Now, seven years later, he's still considered a legend (at least by Apollo) so obviously his reputation wasn't completely discredited, but it would cast enough doubt on him to make things very difficult. I would actually be a bit surprised after being caught with forged evidence if the courts didn't reexamine his old cases to make sure that he hadn't used forged evidence in any of them.
Now, I don't think for even a second that Phoenix's friends would ever believe he would do such a thing nor do I think that they would abandon him for any reason. They know him better then that, but in the papers and the face of public opinion, his reputation was torn apart. That doesn't mean that his friends believed such a thing about him. The public doesn't know him, but his friends do. His friends all care about him and wouldn't have just abandoned him when he needed them the most. I don't see any reason to believe that Maya, Pearl, Iris, Miles, Larry, and Franziska are gone.
I'm hoping that line of the judge's was the game developers way of telling us that they're going to give Phoenix his badge back (plus a couple other lines scattered through the game), but I'm not sure.
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Mia_Fey wrote:
Recall in 4-1 that it's commented that Olga and Shadi tried to set Phoenix up as a cheat, not really so that he would lose, but because it would cast doubt on all his previous wins and destroy his reputation. The same thing applies to his last case. Although, they wouldn't have been able to find evidence that Phoenix ever used forged evidence in his previous cases (because he didn't use any) it would still cast doubt on whether or not he really won those cases fairly. Young Klavier even comments on how, if he hadn't gotten that tip, things would have gone just as Phoenix wanted again. Now, seven years later, he's still considered a legend (at least by Apollo) so obviously his reputation wasn't completely discredited, but it would cast enough doubt on him to make things very difficult. I would actually be a bit surprised after being caught with forged evidence if the courts didn't reexamine his old cases to make sure that he hadn't used forged evidence in any of them.
Now, I don't think for even a second that Phoenix's friends would ever believe he would do such a thing nor do I think that they would abandon him for any reason. They know him better then that, but in the papers and the face of public opinion, his reputation was torn apart. That doesn't mean that his friends believed such a thing about him. The public doesn't know him, but his friends do. His friends all care about him and wouldn't have just abandoned him when he needed them the most. I don't see any reason to believe that Maya, Pearl, Iris, Miles, Larry, and Franziska are gone.
I'm hoping that line of the judge's was the game developers way of telling us that they're going to give Phoenix his badge back (plus a couple other lines scattered through the game), but I'm not sure.
And that's the thing. If they reexamined Phoenix's cases that would prove he was never the kind of attorney to forge evidence. I wonder why the bar association didn't do this before dealing their strict punishment? Also as Kristoph stated Phoenix uses luck and bluffs to win. Not fake evidence. Plus if Klavier was really suspicious of Kristoph from the start why did he let Phoenix ruin himself by presenting the fake evidence in the first place? I mean it was obvious that he was goading Phoenix into doing it.
Maybe the thing though about his friends is that they all knew they wouldn't be able to prove Phoenix's innocence and well if Miles and Fransizka tried it might ruin their reputations as well so maybe at the time there was nothing they could do about it. I'm not saying they didn't care about him and I'm not saying their gone. I just think it's weird that Phoenix would state that everyone turned against him. Unless he was hiding the fact from Kristoph that his friends had tried to help him out in the first place. I mean heck I know Gumshoe wanted to beat Phoenix and all but even I think he wouldn't take this whole forgery business lying down. Although Gumshoe was dumb enough to believe Phoenix got maggey convicted so... heck if I know.
It would be nice if Phoenix did get his badge back. At least then he could continue being a lawyer but still be a mentor to Apollo. I mean heck Mia was a lawyer as well despite her being dead the entire time so I can't see why Phoenix can't be a lawyer, still be Apollo's mentor, and still run the Wright Talent Agency
Though I think it would change to Wright Talent Agency and Law Offices.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
And that's the thing. If they reexamined Phoenix's cases that would prove he was never the kind of attorney to forge evidence. I wonder why the bar association didn't do this before dealing their strict punishment? Also as Kristoph stated Phoenix uses luck and bluffs to win. Not fake evidence. Plus if Klavier was really suspicious of Kristoph from the start why did he let Phoenix ruin himself by presenting the fake evidence in the first place? I mean it was obvious that he was goading Phoenix into doing it.
Well, considering he seems to have been disbarred pretty quickly after the forged evidence (Two weeks is not enough time to have fully investigated all of his cases with any kind of depth and the decision may have been decided even quicker then that. I vaguely recall a mention about him being dealt with right after the trial, but I'm not certain. My memory is feeling a bit fuzzy right now), I would guess that the result of any investigation would not effect the status of Phoenix's employment. Investigating his old cases would be more about making sure that all previous verdicts had really been correct rather then deciding on his punishment. I think the whole strictest punishment thing was very much a result of his own fame (and perhaps the jealousy of some of his peers), so nothing would be changed if they found out that he had never forged evidence before. Forging evidence once was apparently enough to warrant being punished to that extent and Phoenix could not prove that he had no knowledge of the forgery beforehand, so he was stuck. Also, Klavier may have suspected that something was wrong, but he wasn't sure. He also really wanted to win that case and couldn't bring himself to believe that his brother would stoop so low as to forge evidence. Who would want to believe such a thing of their own sibling? So whatever his doubts were, he swallowed them and bought Kristoph's story about wanting to help him in his first case.
Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
Maybe the thing though about his friends is that they all knew they wouldn't be able to prove Phoenix's innocence and well if Miles and Fransizka tried it might ruin their reputations as well so maybe at the time there was nothing they could do about it. I'm not saying they didn't care about him and I'm not saying their gone. I just think it's weird that Phoenix would state that everyone turned against him. Unless he was hiding the fact from Kristoph that his friends had tried to help him out in the first place. I mean heck I know Gumshoe wanted to beat Phoenix and all but even I think he wouldn't take this whole forgery business lying down. Although Gumshoe was dumb enough to believe Phoenix got maggey convicted so... heck if I know.
He states that everyone turned on him, but he never specifies that his friends did anything of the sort. I mean, Maya is still sending him Steel Samurai stuff seven years later, so I have trouble buying the idea that his friends simply forgot he existed. I read that part as meaning the world in general turned on him and not specifically referencing his friends. Remember the papers were spouting off that he was a crooked attorney and his life basically fell apart at that time with the general public believing that he had done such a thing. Imagine what it would feel like to be walking down the street and be recognized as that attorney disbarred for forging evidence (If he was as famous as we're led to believe he was, then I imagine it would be hard for him to escape recognition. He doesn't exactly blend into a crowd <_<). He would have gone through hell at that period, so I don't think its hard to believe that he would feel like everyone had turned on him. Also, I would think that having all his peers vote against him would be pretty devastating to Phoenix. These were people he would have dealt with on a fairly regular basis and yet all of them voted to disbar him. That would be pretty upsetting, particularly to someone like Phoenix who places so much trust in other people. Still, he never specifies that his friends abandoned him and I have trouble believing that they did so (that could just be me though). All he does is make an overarching statement that probably felt pretty accurate at the time.
Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
Though I think it would change to Wright Talent Agency and Law Offices.
My vote is for Wright and Justice Law Offices. Trucy would simply have to cope with name change. ... I'm not attempting to be subtle about what I want to see. :P
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Last edited by Mia_Fey on Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Or there's always "Wright and Associates" :P
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Mia_Fey wrote:
Well, considering he seems to have been disbarred pretty quickly after the forged evidence (Two weeks is not enough time to have fully investigated all of his cases with any kind of depth and the decision may have been decided even quicker then that. I vaguely recall a mention about him being dealt with right after the trial, but I'm not certain. My memory is feeling a bit fuzzy right now), I would guess that the result of any investigation would not effect the status of Phoenix's employment. Investigating his old cases would be more about making sure that all previous verdicts had really been correct rather then deciding on his punishment. I think the whole strictest punishment thing was very much a result of his own fame (and perhaps the jealousy of some of his peers), so nothing would be changed if they found out that he had never forged evidence before. Forging evidence once was apparently enough to warrant being punished to that extent and Phoenix could not prove that he had no knowledge of the forgery beforehand, so he was stuck. Also, Klavier may have suspected that something was wrong, but he wasn't sure. He also really wanted to win that case and couldn't bring himself to believe that his brother would stoop so low as to forge evidence. Who would want to believe such a thing of their own sibling? So whatever his doubts were, he swallowed them and bought Kristoph's story about wanting to help him in his first case.
Well also Klavier did say that he always wondered how Kristoph knew so much, and considering Kristoph was on the case until the day before the trial. I don't see how he could have just ignored his suspiciouns just to win the case. I mean even Klavier should have known that Phoenix couldn't forge something in one day especially when he had the diary not Phoenix. How would Phoenix have known what was written? As for his punishment I guess you're right about that. It's a shame that Phoenix was thrown out because his peers were so jealous of his talent.
Mia_Fey wrote:
He states that everyone turned on him, but he never specifies that his friends did anything of the sort. I mean, Maya is still sending him Steel Samurai stuff seven years later, so I have trouble buying the idea that his friends simply forgot he existed. I read that part as meaning the world in general turned on him and not specifically referencing his friends. Remember the papers were spouting off that he was a crooked attorney and his life basically fell apart at that time with the general public believing that he had done such a thing. Imagine what it would feel like to be walking down the street and be recognized as that attorney disbarred for forging evidence (If he was as famous as we're led to believe he was, then I imagine it would be hard for him to escape recognition. He doesn't exactly blend into a crowd <_<). He would have gone through hell at that period, so I don't think its hard to believe that he would feel like everyone had turned on him. Also, I would think that having all his peers vote against him would be pretty devastating to Phoenix. These were people he would have dealt with on a fairly regular basis and yet all of them voted to disbar him. That would be pretty upsetting, particularly to someone like Phoenix who places so much trust in other people. Still, he never specifies that his friends abandoned him and I have trouble believing that they did so (that could just be me though). All he does is make an overarching statement that probably felt pretty accurate at the time.
I do think he did when he said that the first few days were the darkest time in his life. It probably was hard to escape the public eye because of that. Even so I'm not saying at all that his friends turned their backs on him. Just that maybe at the time they weren't in a position to really do anything. Plus they probably thought there was nothing they could do to help anyways. After al if Phoenix couldn't prove his innocence there was nothing they could do. Unless Phoenix intentionally kept them out of the loop.
Mia_Fey wrote:
My vote is for Wright and Justice Law Offices. Trucy would simply have to cope with name change. ... I'm not attempting to be subtle about what I want to see. :P
Well at least then Phoenix wouldn't have to play the piano anymore. He really did seem to hate it a lot. I'm sure Trucy wouldn't mind Phoenix returning to law at this point. After all even she criticizes his piano playing. XD
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
Well also Klavier did say that he always wondered how Kristoph knew so much, and considering Kristoph was on the case until the day before the trial. I don't see how he could have just ignored his suspiciouns just to win the case. I mean even Klavier should have known that Phoenix couldn't forge something in one day especially when he had the diary not Phoenix. How would Phoenix have known what was written? As for his punishment I guess you're right about that. It's a shame that Phoenix was thrown out because his peers were so jealous of his talent.
Honestly, I think Klavier's actions fall into the "I don't want to believe it, so I don't see it" category. It's far easier to believe that Phoenix was crooked then to believe that his own brother was crooked (and using him). Besides, he seems honestly shocked to find out that Phoenix took the case only the day before and considering how surprised he seemed to be at seeing Kristoph at the Prosecutor's Office the day before the trial, I think we can probably assume that the brothers didn't talk much before the trial so Klavier may not have known exactly when Kristoph stopped being the defense attorney on that case. It's also conceivable that Klavier's own inexperience came into play in this case. He was only seventeen after all and his big brother had just shown up to help him or so he was led to believe. I'm also of the belief that Klavier's unease over that case was what caused him to develop the dedication to finding the truth that Klavier shows through the rest of the game. Being haunted by that kind of long-lived guilt and uncertainty could certainly spur such a development. Anyway, I'm off-topic so I'll stop talking about Klavier now. :)
And I agree that what happened to Phoenix was rotten all around. Seriously, the poor guy deserved better.
Oh, I also found out the answer to the question about what Gavinners stuff Trucy bought! According to the game, she bought a copy of everything they had put out which came to a total of 12 albums and 15 concert videos. Trucy sure knows how to spend money, doesn't she? <_<
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Mia_Fey wrote:
Honestly, I think Klavier's actions fall into the "I don't want to believe it, so I don't see it" category. It's far easier to believe that Phoenix was crooked then to believe that his own brother was crooked (and using him). Besides, he seems honestly shocked to find out that Phoenix took the case only the day before and considering how surprised he seemed to be at seeing Kristoph at the Prosecutor's Office the day before the trial, I think we can probably assume that the brothers didn't talk much before the trial so Klavier may not have known exactly when Kristoph stopped being the defense attorney on that case. It's also conceivable that Klavier's own inexperience came into play in this case. He was only seventeen after all and his big brother had just shown up to help him or so he was led to believe. I'm also of the belief that Klavier's unease over that case was what caused him to develop the dedication to finding the truth that Klavier shows through the rest of the game. Being haunted by that kind of long-lived guilt and uncertainty could certainly spur such a development. Anyway, I'm off-topic so I'll stop talking about Klavier now. :)
And I agree that what happened to Phoenix was rotten all around. Seriously, the poor guy deserved better.
Oh, I also found out the answer to the question about what Gavinners stuff Trucy bought! According to the game, she bought a copy of everything they had put out which came to a total of 12 albums and 15 concert videos. Trucy sure knows how to spend money, doesn't she? <_<
I guess what you say makes sense. Perhaps I'm just looking too much into it. I just feel like there were many factors that could have let Phoenix keep his badge that were thrown out.
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
I guess what you say makes sense. Perhaps I'm just looking too much into it. I just feel like there were many factors that could have let Phoenix keep his badge that were thrown out.
One thing being if someone asked Drew Misham when he recieved the order to make the forgery. Forgeries aren't done in one single night, and after looking over the records that Nick just accepted the night the night before, it would had cleared him of any doubt. This was all just a huge plot contrivance set up so they could kick Phoenix to the curb, and frankly it pisses me off that if he had to take a fall, it would be in such a redicluously put-together way. >_>
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
One thing being if someone asked Drew Misham when he recieved the order to make the forgery. Forgeries aren't done in one single night, and after looking over the records that Nick just accepted the night the night before, it would had cleared him of any doubt. This was all just a huge plot contrivance set up so they could kick Phoenix to the curb, and frankly it pisses me off that if he had to take a fall, it would be in such a redicluously put-together way. >_>
That is actually handled in the story line. Remember that attorneys are only registered with the court the day before the trial so there would never have been any record of anyone but Phoenix having taken the case. For all the courts knew, Phoenix had been hired a week before.
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Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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XD
Re: Phoenix Wright: Hobo or HOBO? *Spoilers*
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Quote:
Tomoshibi Amatsu - I love your avatar! I had the exact same picture in my mind when I saw the little piano
XD
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Tis a shame I couldn't find one of Peanuts version Edgey with a security blanket, but I have to admit. I never pictured Hobohodou as a peanuts character until I found that pic. XD
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