So in a way you might say I'm a big fan of Yahtzee, and as I've found fewer and fewer games these days to be decent, I thought I might give my full impression of the newest Ace Attorney. I want to say right off the bat that I realize this is definitely not the opinion shared of other players, and I fully respect that; unfortunately, no opinions of other people will change how I feel about the game, but regardless you're free to offer your rebuttals if you like. Note that this review does contain spoilers, which I won't bother spoilertagging. I'm going to assume you've played through the whole game.

From the extensive preface you might already know what my impression of the game is. I recently became a rushed fan of the first three games, loving the characters of Phoenix, Maya, Larry, and all the people he meets. (well, most of them...I have nightmares about the owner of Tres Bien) I ended up buying AJ on a whim, just to see how the story continues.

In a way, Capcom did make a good decision to essentially scrap the old cast; keep them around too long and they become sellouts. Their stories are done, and it's time for a new age. I can think of plenty of publishers that would insist on more of the same, but it's good to see they're willing to go for a change. Unfortunately, I can't say I thought as well of the new characters as everyone else did. Let me try to iterate through each of the problems I felt with the game, in turn.

"C'mon, can't I be cool for once?"
One of the coolest feelings of the Phoenix Wright games is figuring out the contradictions, stuffing them in the witness's faces, and watching them squirm as the rest of the court gasps in amazement at your infallible logic. Admittedly, often Mia is there in the original games giving you a few hints to what happened, but here's the thing; she speaks in riddles, and rarely speaks directly to the court, expecting Phoenix to understand and explain everything.
AJ turns this on its head. In the first case, Phoenix Wright himself is next to you, and gives you hints along the way. That's fine. What's not fine is when Apollo, after replying meekly "Um...is the answer...12.2?" must watch someone else explain everything that he just started off. In the first case, Phoenix practically takes over as your attorney, just giving you a few guiding hints to the truth. Since Apollo is the main character, the player is meant to identify with him, and the game was basically telling me I'm a clueless idiot who can't figure anything out for himself. Yeah, well right back at you, game! Hmph.
Even in the second and third cases, this trend continues. Trucy takes turns at explaining an entire situation to the court, while Apollo thinks to himself "Wow! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!" Even prosecutor Gavin sometimes takes your side to try to defeat the witness, something that Edgeworth didn't do until late in the third case, and then grudgingly. The third case contained the worst example; Trucy tells you that she actually knows the contradiction in the testimony, but doesn't want to say it because it's against the magician's code. Yeah, someone's forgotten that life and death hang in the balance; it felt like Trucy's entire presence was an effort to make Apollo seem like an idiot. As soon as you point out the contradiction (Which, as I have outlined in another thread, is not actually a contradiction) she rattles on you for magician hate. Now that's an incentive for me to stop playing entirely, if anything. (NOTE: It has been theorized she didn't actually know the secret, and just wanted to seem smart. It's possible, I suppose.)

"Worst. Client. Ever."
Each of the defendants in AJ left me feeling somewhat lacking; the opposite feeling of PW. First case? Your best friend is begging for your help, and while he even feels abandoned after the trial, you manage to even show him his girlfriend was still thinking of him. Two birds in one stone! Second case, you are helping someone who has just lost everything and been abandoned by everyone. What's worse, when trying to repay your efforts, there's little she can do. Fourth case, you not only show a former friend and rival the feelings felt by a defendant, but absolve him of guilt he's been plagued with for fifteen years.
CONTRAST TIME!
First case, you are taking the place of "defense attorney" for someone who could very well defend himself. The whole case could pretty much be replaced by Phoenix saying to Apollo "Just say whatever I tell you to say." You're not actually DOING anything. Second case, your client WANTS TO BE FOUND GUILTY. And not for the awesome and shocking reason from 1-5. You're only helping him cause you need work. Then you find that it's not even likely he'll live much longer than a week. Wow. I feel like I've changed the world. Third case, your client speaks to you so little you don't have too much reason to care for him. Then, you really don't even save him from too much. It's just "out of the fire and into the frying pan". Heck, the guy's almost an accomplice himself. Fourth case...to be honest, I didn't quite like Vera.
"Hello, I am a defense attorney and will do everything in my power to help you!"
<paints her nails>
"You know what? I do not like you."
She's quiet to a point I didn't quite like. While she would have made a fine Second client, or something like that...this is the LAST CASE. Normally, in Ace Attorney, that is associated with startling epicness, and usually means that your client holds a significance directly related to you; if you fail, you'll never be able to live with yourself. Can anyone remember the shock at seeing "G U I L T Y" in 1-4, or the prompt "Guilty/Not Guilty" in 2-4? Honestly, I didn't really care so much for Vera, even if she gave a heartfelt thanks at the end. Oh yeah; if Zak Gramarye counts, here's my impression of him: "Well, too bad for your badge. I'm saving my own ass! Later!" I was a bit surprised Phoenix didn't strangle him when he saw him again. I mean, I would've. Heartless bastard.

"I'm not some kind of robot, Apollo!"
One of the most important aspects of AA is its characters. One thing I felt AJ didn't quite achieve was a level of normality. I mean, take a look at, say, Larry. No outwardly unusual features, he just acts weird at times. Edgeworth? He wears a coat, and has a slight look of royalty, though doesn't take it too far. Certainly not every character in PW was like that, but many had really significant character traits that you'd only know by being around them long enough, like Maya's addiction to burgers, Gumshoe's low salary, Godot's 17-cup policy, or Lotta's easily-swayed "murder-watching-eyes".
In AJ, when you have a university student, he wears graduation robes. Um, why? When you have a prosecutor that used to play guitar, he STILL plays guitar. Why? When you have a gangster, he always looks ready for a fight. WHY? When you have an artist, she brings a sketchpad with her and replaces conversation with abstract and random drawings. WHY!??? When you have a magician, she pulls out Mr. Hat at any slightly convenient interval of conversation (Okay, I admit, Mr. Hat is pretty amusing.) It seems like there wasn't a strong effort to put depth in characters beyond their outward appearance.

I had quite a bit of beef with prosecutor Gavin. Yeah, I know he's a fangirl-favorite and all. I don't care. I'm not a man for hard rock. What I didn't like is how he acts all cool, and never admits defeat. In 4-2, when you twist around Alita's testimony and start accusing her, Klavier is already HELPING you. A prosecutor and defense attorney helping each other is supposed to be a revolutionary thing. Like I said, when Edgeworth did it, it was a major character change. This guy just seems apathetic about whether he wins or loses at all; all he wants is to be more popular than Herr Forehead, and annoyingly enough to me, he gets his wish. At least Ema and I share feelings about him. Oh yeah; did I mention he actually laughed at someone suffering a terminal illness?.....Really? You want proof?
"So I gots to get me another doc to pull the bullet out! F'real!!!"
"Hahahah...."
"Wh-What's so funny?"
"Oh, did you not know? That bullet you keep so close to your heart...if not treated, it could kill you."
Oh, and air guitars make you look like an idiot.

Speaking of people who do not understand life or death situations, while Trucy was definitely great for a lot of jokes during the game, I had one big problem with her; she's never really concerned with what's happening. You realize a guilty verdict means capital punishment, right? She just never really showed the same level of concern in solving the case as Maya did. Granted, Trucy is much better at solving the case, but it's just something she inherits from Wright; it's not something she consciously tries hard to do. Pretty much the nail in the coffin for this viewpoint was the earlier-mentioned situation where she hides the contradiction.

"I'm afraid the only thing flipped on its head here was you as a child, Mr. Justice."
As Phoenix says in the ending to 2-1, the judge always gives the right verdict. And he's certainly right here. I could go on for a lengthy comparison, but let's face it. We're fans of a court game. Why don't I give you some PROOF?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75hnUnT6VB4 (skip to 5:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yCpDiEJTfw (skip to 5:00)
Here we can see Phoenix's first objection, and Apollo's first objection.
Or should I say...
O - B - J - E - C - T - I - O - N!
"No need to shout, Mr. Justice! I can hear you fine!"
"Ehehehe..." (fail sound)
Like I said before, the player identifies with the main character. I bet people new to the series would feel like "All right! I found a contradiction! YES!" This is addressed perfectly in PW1: Mia is proud, the witness is trembling, the judge gets stern with him, and overrules Payne's objection. Here, it's pretty much the other way around. On his very first objection, Apollo gets OWNED. By PAYNE! PAYNE!!! It's even worse in the second case!
"OBJECTION!"
"Wh...what is it?"
"Er...well..."
"Mr. Justice. Do you have some evidence you wish to show us?"
"Er...evidence! Right!......Take a look at this!"
"The autopsy report? Is there some contradiction here?"
"Contradiction...contra....um..."
You know, in most scenarios I would be kind of frustrated to have my main character addressed as a "kid" by other characters, including third-party bystanders like security guards. But from the way he acts in court, it seems all too fitting. No matter what the humor value, I don't want to have the main character, who I am playing as, beaten apart by everyone in the courtroom. The best parts of Phoenix Wright are when you take charge. When even Maya is shocked at what you've realized, and you wear that hands-on-hips stance with oh so much pride in finally finding the testimony's weak point.

"Well, that was fruitless. Though I think I understand despair a little better now."
Endings are usually what make the games, and like Yahtzee's latest review of SSBB, my response to this game's ending was a resounding "MEH." I mean, let's take a look at the stack-up. You're defending someone you don't care about, to accuse a murderer who's ALREADY in jail for another murder. How are you defeating him? As Dahlia Hawthorne said, there's nothing you can do to punish those who are already (pretty much) dead. Not to mention...once again, Apollo himself does jack while the real hero of the day is the same as the last three games...PHOENIX WRIGHT. You can't even find the conclusive evidence you need, so the game ends itself on a note of "Yeah, well...we say you're the murderer, so you are!" And guess who organized the whole thing. Once again...this game was not a victory for Apollo. It was a victory for Phoenix, and anyone who loves magic tricks, but what frustrated me most was the childish defeat of the one character that you happen to play as.

I'll give GS5 a shot, and while I think each one of the previous games was better than GS4, I don't think this game was an utter failure; it was still a complete game with intricate cases and unique characters. It just happened to have far more that I wanted to criticize than the previous ones.
Once again, remember that I entitle everyone else to their own opinion, and I'm certainly not about to hate on anyone else who liked the game. It still holds quite a few humorous quotes in my 70KB-and-growing list of Ace Attorney quotes. I just wished to voice my concerns. Thank you.

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I'm not gonna go all out and write a lengthy response, but here's one from someone who really likes the game (for...whatever reasons. I don't know. I just really like Apollo. He's huggable. >.>)

This was actually very well written. There was some sarcasm that seemed slightly out of place/unnecessary (though, again, it is just an opinion), but I can understand exactly where you're coming from with a lot of your points. I especially empathize with you on the ending and on Phoenix's domination of many aspects of the game. Then again, the game was more closure and transition oriented than anything. Whether or not that's a good thing, I don't know. Even Apollo mentions something to that effect in the last case: (I couldn't think of anything to say. But maybe that's because I don't know what the law is yet.) [or something to that extent--you get the picture XD]. Hopefully, Apollo will pwn everything in GS5.

~Sincerely, someone who rather liked the game (a lot) but agrees with you on many things.

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Debat timez naoz? : D Haven't had one in a while.


True, true. But one thing that's good about this is that we really get to see Apollo learn the ropes of being a defense attorney. It's his first year, and he's had a lot of help. I'm pretty sure in the next game he'll have to figure things out for himself. Trucy was only trying to help Apollo get smarter in court, I'm sure if he didn't figure it out in the end she would've told him before it was too late. Trucy is pretty smart to think up that pantie trick and making up her own magician tricks.



In the end though, Wocky was trying to protect Alita, which is sort of similar to 1-5. He did have a reason, a pointless one at first, but he did try to protect the one he loved, even though she didn't love him back. We do see Wocky in the credits, making O.G. crackers, so I think he may live. Even if he doesn't, he'll get to spend the rest of his days with his family, and not locked up in a jail cell. It's really about changing peoples' lives, even just one, Apollo isn't a superhero out to save the world from Godzilla the prosecutor. No matter what, an undeserved guilty verdict is not right, along with the real murderer getting away. From what we know of the Ace Attorney series, killing one man is enough to get you a death sentence... I think. He may have been an accomplice to smuggling, but he's still a minor being tried in the U.S. (or Japan, depending on game version) so the penalty won't get him death and he's spared his life, or life in prison. Vera treats everyone that way at first, but she thanks them and opens up to Apollo and Trucy in the end. Imagine yourself in her shoes. She's grown up most of her life in a studio, and was almost kidnapped at a young age, traumatizing her until the end of the game. She then has a morbid fear of strangers for the majority of her life and is unable to step outside the studio, while sort of knowing that what she's doing is bad but is necessary. Adding onto that, the main evil man comes and tangles Vera into the plot of Apollo Justice and tries to poison her... twice. She builds a reliance onto an object, and even Drew notices this and is scared for her, hence the real yellow letter in Kristoph's cell.


I know a lot a few people with low salaries, drinks ridiculous amounts of coffee, addicted to burgers, and dress very sharply. If something is in the norm, no way the characters would make any impression on you. Klavier's air guitar is his own quirk, every Ace Attorney character has them. Vera isn't sociable at all, so she uses the sketchpad to make things easier. Wocky just wants to live up to the gangster name, which is pretty funny actually. I thought there was a lot of backstory on Wocky. Not so much on Klavier or anything, but there's also a lot of Vera's and Trucy. I think the new characters are able to match up to the old. I usually try to not compare and really look at them for who they are, not who they aren't.


I don't think Klavier was laughing at the fact Wocky could die any time, but at the fact Wocky went out to kill the man who could've saved his very life. Klavier's just a nice guy who wants truth, it makes things less interesting, but a change from the "I'm going to crush you under my shoe" type of prosecutor. Less satisfying to win the case though. I hope they pull a really aggressive one out in the next game.


Trucy is a magician, so she knows how to hid her real feelings. She's just not the serious type, and that's how some people are. Just can't get really that serious. She probably knows that it's a bad situation, but I'd rather think with a clear head than one that's stressing over the problem. She knows that the criminal has to be caught though, and if Apollo didn't get it, she'd probably point it out. I mean, she can't explain EVERYTHING for Apollo. She may be not the serious type, but she's not stupid.


It had been two months since his first trial, and his first trial really wasn't much of an experience grabber. It took out the excitement that everyone else had probably figured it out before you did, but eh, I'm sure he'll get better. He needs to learn how to bluff and shove it in peoples' faces better.


The main evil man puts his reputation as a respected defense attorney above all else. He lost his respect as a civilian, but that's all he had left, his former reputation as the best defense attorney after Wright was stripped away his badge. What happened to that reputation? The first jury trial ever in the country, and millions upon millions are watching the trial, including the ones who had revered the main evil man as an honest defense attorney. Now that everyone knows, his reputation has been trashed (or been turned into trash) and is now considered a forger in everyone's mind. The one thing he had left, had been stripped away in one day, by Phoenix and Apollo. You didn't need the evidence as the Jury had already played through the mason system and knew what letter Apollo was talking about. Even if that 'evidence' was rejected, didn't stop the Jury from seeing it. (I think Franziska used this tactic before...? Not sure) I think of this as more of an introduction to Apollo, but more about Phoenix's story. It's what I call a transition game from one protagonist to the next. Almost nothing except his mother was revealed about Apollo. It was sort of set up in the end the story of Apollo's past, so in GS5, maybe that'll be the main topic.

I actually enjoyed the game. However, I agree with several of your opinions. I especially agree with you about Prosecutor Gavin...



I don't like Prosecutor Gavin. I don't pretend to like him. The fact that he was already helping you during 4-2 annoyed me. Sure, Edgeworth helped out during the first three games, but not at first. He started out doing anything to win, only helping after he began to realize the error of his ways. In my opinion, the only reason Mr. Prettyboy Prosecutor helped out Apollo was so that he could look cool. (Sorry, but that's what I call him.)

In the first three games, I enjoyed throwing evidence in the faces of the smug prosecutors and watching them squirm. In AJ, I rarely got the chance to do that. (And on the few occasions it did happen, it was rarely Apollo who did the "throwing of evidence".) The prosecution shouldn't point out every contradiction to the defense attorney. It's just unnatural, especially in these games. In the first game you had Edgeworth, who had an explanation for EVERYTHING. Then you had Franziska, who was so obsessed with perfection that she made deals with witnesses and whipped the court until they took her side. Finally, you had Godot, who led you into traps and confused the courtroom with his "Coffenese". In AJ, you have Gavin, who ... helps the defense and doesn't seem to give a damn about winning? Something seems wrong with this.

Nice to see some people agree.

Chazooma, you make some valid points, but I directly disagree about Wocky wanting to protect Alita. He says that he just "wanted to do hard time" to be a "G". You're offering some nice explanations for other characters' behavior, but regardless of whether that behavior is explainable, to me it's just not likable.
I suppose I can understand the whole thing about Gavin's reputation, but I sort of feel like even things such as that get ruined when people find out you bottled someone to death.

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At the end of 3-5, I found myself brooding over the series and trying to get the inspiration it gave me onto my drawing board.

At the end of 4-4, I just found myself tossing my DS onto my shelf and going to play outside. I definitely agree with your argument about Kristoph; fighting to get an already guilty man found guilty? Where's the fun in that? Vera was just...too quiet for me to like. Sure, she's got a cute character design but that's about it.

Klavier was a joke; the 'prosecutor by day, rock star by night' crap totally ruined his credibility as a prosecutor in my opinion. I just couldn't take him seriously at all. Helping you through all the cases didn't really change my opinion either.

I found myself not giving a damn about the defendants; there was no bond. You don't talk to Wocky until the trial begins, you don't talk to Machi at all, and Vera seems to emotionless for me to connect to.

Overall...eh. It was fun, don't get me wrong, but I certainly didn't feel that same rush as I did with Phoenix and the gang.

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Last edited by Panicakes on Wed May 14, 2008 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I can see where everyone is getting that. AJ did annoy me for those reasons. Especially with the constant "Giving away the answer" hints and not so well developed characters. GS5 better improve on this.

But at least it's safe to say that I, personally, am more then able to replay AJ more than once compared to JFA. JFA was just annoying and kinda boring, but that's not the point. AJ was at least fun, and that's what counts in a game... in my opinion.

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I haven't read a single review on this board with a person that liked Klavier, and that makes me sad. I was getting really sick of Prosecutors hating you for no reason and being horrible heartless monsters. I really enjoyed seeing the reverse be true in this game, with Klavier being a prosecutor that fights for justice and

I. Completely. Agree. With. You. (Or maybe 99.7%) Thank you so much for putting my thoughts into words.

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I definitely agree with a lot of what you said. In the end, while I did like a lot of AJ, and even the worst AA game is really entertaining and better than a lot of other stuff.... it's by far the worst in the series and pales in comparison to the first three.

I did love Vera, though. But Trucy, Klavier, and Apollo are just flat, boring characters. They're good ideas, but they fall apart in EXECUTION; it would have been fine having a nice guy, laid back prosecutor who isn't actively trying to fuck you over--but that didn't mean he has to just HELP you and be as interesting as a cabbage.

And I hate, hate HATE Hobo Nick XD; Honestly, I think he's more of a villain than Kristoph is >_>

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He hardly seems like Phoenix anymore (even accounting for his trauma and seven years' time), and when I found out there was originally going to be an entirely different disgruntled-lawyer-mentor-figure, it started to dawn on me the Nix had been shoehorned into this role. At first I liked his new appearance and mellow demeanor, but then he just became a inconsiderate prick and I couldn't stand how they'd ruined the excellent ending of the first three games. I still like a few of his funny moments with Trucy, but both of them drove me insane for the majority of the game. He still looks hot as a hobo, though~

I think this game would only warrant a C+ at best for me, but I can't entirely hate it, as there was some good humor and at least a few good features. I only hope they take their new characters, round them out a little bit, better implement the new game-play systems, and have GS5 perform a complete... turnabout.

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Katana, you're my new best friend.

Do you write professional reviews for GameFAQs or something? If not, you really should.

He really doesn't feel like Nick anymore, at all.

I could have even liked him if A.) he was a separate, new character and not Phoenix, and B.) they call him on all the shit that he pulls.

But since neither A nor B are true, I can't like him. At all.

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Katana, You = Uber Truth.

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Yup, I know how you feel. I can't deny a few of his cute father-daughter moments, though...
(Paraphrase)
Phoenix: Here you go. Happy birthday, Trucy!
Trucy: But it's not my birthday, Daddy.
Phoenix: Well then, what day is it?
Trucy: Burnable trash day.
Phoenix: Happy burnable trash day, Trucy!

Phoenix: I really appreciate what you did for Trucy, Apollo, but I have to ask as a father: Why are you still carrying my daughter's panties around in your pocket?

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They're cute, which is why I said I could like him if it were a new character.

But it isn't *Phoenix* to me.

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I hate internet debates, but I'll make this post anyway.

I don't really see what the big deal with Phoenix is, what happened to him would make anyone grow bitter over the years. In addition, it's not like he's a completely different person, anyone who complains about him being a "totally different character" must realize that it's because you can't read what he's thinking anymore. Phoenix himself was kind of a dick in PW 1-3 if you don't bother reading his inner monologues.

Klavier being a "nice" prosecutor didn't bother me in the slightest either, the cliche and juvenile "prosecutors are spawns of Satan lolol" had to go. Klavier was a bit of a smug bastard, but at least he wasn't like Franziska or Manfred.

Apollo getting his hand held through some parts didn't bother me either, but that's mainly because it's been over two years and I still haven't gotten over the trauma of Phoenix's inability to look at the fucking paper in 1-2.

Edit: If there was one thing that bothered me was how none of the trials last 3 days anymore, it's as if they completely forgot about the 3 day trials system.

First off, my theory is that Apollo was never meant to be the main protagonist of a series. Apollo was essentially the tool that allowed you to see Phoenix Wright's story while still being an Ace Attorney game. After all, there really couldn't be a game if Phoenix was still the main character. Say all you want about Takumi's "original plans" for the game, and how he was "forced" to include Phoenix -- I'm not buying it. Look at the evidence:

1) The game is called GS4 in Japan, not GS NEW! or something like that. In my estimate, that means it's clearly meant to be a continuation, and not the start of a new series.
2) The game really is about Phoenix, as everybody knows (why this is so bothersome to so many people, I don't know -- I was happy the story was really more about Phoenix)
3) Since Capcom America went on to the whole "main-character-name-in-the-game's-title" thing, they had to change the title for this game. What name did they come up with? Apollo Justice? Wait a minute, A-POLL-O? Justice? Justice might be a very rare last name, but Apollo Justice? It's a joke -- and it's done intentionally -- as it's not a name meant for building a brand with. When I first heard the name was going to be Apollo Justice, I thought Capcom America intentionally came up with something stupid so as to generate disinterest in the new protagonist, which would be persuasive in bringing back Wright for the fifth game.
4) The best evidence is everything you've just mentioned in your OP. Apollo is NOT a main protagonist, he's merely a tool (in the literal sense, not the insult sense). The only thing you don't realize is that he really wasn't ever meant to be the main protagonist. He was intentionally made sucky so as to not get you too disappointed if he didn't appear in the next game (at least not as a main character).
5) Apollo essentially IS Phoenix, just a sucky, slightly less philantropic version of him. I'm talking about the personalities here. For all practical purposes, they're the same. Apollo even has the same views on ladders (erm, stepladders) as Phoenix -- they're like alternate-dimension clones of each other, with one being better than the other. What does this fact mean? It means that AJ is a vehicle that isn't made to make you feel out of place... the main character's personality is pretty much the same as the personality of the main character in the previous three games, the only difference is, he's not the "true" hero, on purpose, because Phoenix is the hero that we've all come to know and love. This is still his series.
6) Finally, we all know what Phoenix says at the end of the game -- "...Or maybe I'll take the bar exam... again."

It all makes sense. This is what Phoenix's name is all about. He, now more than ever, will live up to it. He had his fall, and his redemption was given in AA4. Now in AA5 he will soar again. They'll even have the perfect excuse to the "rookie-syndrom" scenario at the beginning of the game: having not practiced in seven years, Phoenix will be "rusty" and will need to relearn the ropes. It's perfect.

What did the structure of AA4 accomplish for Capcom from a sequel perspective? Flexibility. If people reacted positively to Apollo, they could continue with a spinoff with him, without being constrained by the earlier three games. But they weren't going to ease that constraint with this game -- the game is still all about Phoenix. Essentially Apollo was designed to fail, so there wouldn't be any disappointment when he is left out in the next game. AA4 was just a way to tell a unique story about Phoenix, and it couldn't have been told without Apollo. But now that that's over, Apollo is no longer necessary, and now Capcom can go back to GS5 with a much more complex, rich, and compelling main character.

Which brings me to my second main point, all the hobo-nick bashing. People, PHOENIX WAS ACTING LIKE A DOUCHE TO APOLLO ON PURPOSE!!! It wasn't some "vast" personality change. Phoenix has a pre-meditated attitude around Apollo on purpose; it was all part of a plan so that he could bring the best out of Apollo (and also keep the player wondering). Phoenix's personality did change after losing his badge, but not as much as most forum posters here let on. It changed a little, and what did change made perfect sense.

But remember the sequences where Phoenix is not in Apollo's presence. There's not many of them -- they only occur in the final case. And here, this is where we see the "real" Phoenix, and he hasn't changed too much. He's still deeply passionate about the truth, and even when all the chips are against him, he still helps people in whatever way he can (adopting Trucy). The only thing that's really changed is that his passion has become a lot more passive and veiled -- after all, there was nothing he could directly do to help his situation. People point fingers that in his final trial Phoenix's personality has already changed, charging that he is too cocky, but that's just plain ridiculous. This is essentially the first real case Phoenix has as a "true" veteran (the status he achieved in 1-5 by not using Mia's help), and he is going up against a real rookie. When he internally makes statements like "you're out of your leage, rock-boy," 1) he isn't saying this aloud, so he is not being a douche, 2) he is allowed to think these thoughts validly, because of the status he has now and the status of his opponent, and 3) Phoenix has always made internal sarcastic remarks that don't give his advesaries the benefit of the doubt. Someone can look up the exact line but on more than one occasion Phoenix said some not so nice things about Franzie's whip habbits. The only difference between then and now, was that Phoenix was a true veteran, and wasn't intimidated by his opponents anymore. 4) Klavier was being a douche the whole time to Phoenix. Because his brother told him to. "Don't give him the benefit of your respect" Kristoph says to Klavier. Of course Phoenix was going to take affront to the attitude he was being given.

Now, Phoenix was a bit terse and off-standish around the Misham's and Kristoph (in the 'present') even when not around Apollo, but, again, it's to be expected, because on they were (as he knew) the root reasons for his job being taken away.

Really, I find all the hobo-bashing to be misplaced -- you just need to understand why Phoenix is acting the way he is at certain times. I found his character to be perefectly written given the circumstances, and I enjoyed the turns that it took. I really felt for the guy. When you're playing as him and investigating at Drew Studio in the present, if you examine the gold statue that's giving an "Objection!" pose, you'll get to hear Phoenix's voice shouting "Objection!" as well. To which his inner monologue replies, "I really have to stop doing this to myself..." After all these years, Phoenix is still visibly hurt about having his passion and livelyhood stripped away from him. I COULD JUST FEEL THE PAIN PHOENIX WAS EXPERIENCING at this point. It made me get a little teary-eyed. Poor guy.

Admittedly, normally, I'd be the one upset about the character change like the type in AA4, but I really did like it. I thought things were presented rather believeably as to how a character like Wright would be affected by tragedy. It created a character I like even more now. So, as the type of person who normally wouldn't like the kind of changes brought on by AA4, I did like them.

Also admittedly, my opinion of the AA4 really will be affected by where they go with AA5. If they just completlely abandon the Phoenix character after what they've done with this game, I naturally will be disappointed. To me, they just set it up perfect, the Phoenix's rise, and fall, and re-rising... all we have left to see is him complete the final stage by letting him become a lawyer again. So, to me, there's still at least another game left in this guy, and if they just abandon him for good... well, that would be unfortunate. Especially considering, as the OP pointed out, how uncompelling a character AJ is.

So, in conclusion -- I say the reason why you're disappointed with Apollo is because you were supposed to be. My theory is that Phoenix will be back in the defense booth in AA5.

EDIT: eh, maybe that was a bit too long for a response. Perhaps I should make my own thread.

I'm agree with some of your opinions...no,most of your thoughts are right, but I just view all the fact from another angle...no offense, of course.

First of all, I think hannedog got the point:Apollo in only a tool in GS4. In the first case, Phoenix used him to beat Kristoph(I guess he was ready to do anything he could to do his avenge, includes using a rookie defence and making a forged evidence). Polly was not supposed to turn about the trail, Nick was. Phoenix had never expected Apollo could beat Kristoph by himself. Whoever it was being his defence, he would just do the same thing——throw out his authorities and evidences(no matter if they are real or fake) one by one. Keep it in mind, he even refused to tell Apollo what really happened. He didn't really want anyone else beating Kristoph in the court, he wanted to do it with his own hands.

My point is, you can't blame on Apollo for not being able to get through the first case by himself. It was just impossible.

It was the same thing in 4-4. Actually only Apollo himself had nothing to do with the case 7 years ago in the last trail. Still, he had no choice but taking the case; he was not feed by all the truth(at least he didn't know his relationship with Trucy);he got most of the decisive evidence from Phoenix. He was chosen only because he could be used as a tool.

Talking about 4-2 and 4-3, I can't see anything proofs that he was worse than Phoenix used to be in 1-2 and 1-3. It maybe only my opinion, but I'm not just imagining.

I just think Polly is like a real lawyer who needs time to grow up, especially he's under a great ex-lawyer's shadow. I agree he looks really like Phoenix in personality at the first sight, but if you bother to play the game twice, you might see quite a lot difference between the two characters. BTW, Polly and Nick had totally opposite idea about ladder or step ladder.


I guess I don't need to tell a lot about the clients, though...I guess it's just has something to do with people's taste. Some one like the new style and someone don't. Anyway I'm totally agree with you here, Zak is just a bastard. Thalassa may become another one if they don't give her a good reason to abandon Polly when he was a baby in GS5, but now, well.

chazooma has already said what I want to said about Trucy, many thanks.:3

Then about Klavier. I can't see why his rock-star-looking is so annoying to so many people here.Seriously. As a prosecutor, his duty is not beating defence attorneys in the courts, but discovering the truth(as Edgey figured out at the end of GS1). I don't think Klavier is a good prosecutor because he made such a stupid mistake of arresting Machi, who was obviously not the murderer, but not his helping Apollo to catch the real criminal. As a matter of fact, he hadn't help Apollo in 4-2 until every one knew Alita was the real killer and in 4-3, he didn't really offer any help until Polly had proofed Dayan could be the killer. I have to admit that he lost himself in 4-4, but it's understandable since it was his own brother who hurt him.


And hobohodo...I don't really know if I like or hate the idea of making him a hobo. Call me crazy, I wanna kiss and kill Capcom for that at the mean time. They did ruin Phoenix's life, but I don't think they ruined the character. Actually I would be really surprised if he turned out to be as native as he used to be after the seven years gap. He presented the notepage , it was a mistake and he paid for it. He became a person who can risk his life(maybe I should count Trucy's life in, too) to sent his rival into jail and use someone else as a tool——you are right, it doesn't look like the Nick we know at all. How ever, he knew he had lost the qualification of being a lawyer again and he hate himself because of that. But still, he chose to destroy his own believe and pride. I would be really angry with him if I hadn't played the 3 previous games, but since I had, I can imagine what kind of pain he suffered could change him so much. I know there are some kinds of deadly blow can change people like that, it's not my fault if you don't. I won't be surprised if he become the main villain of GS5...=P Nick is not innocent, actually he's kindda pathetic, but he has my sympathy, that's all.(BTW: I really really think he won't become a defence attorney again, epically now he's the chief of the jury system. How could he being a defence while he's getting salary from the government at the mean time?@_@)

So...I don't really think GS5 characters are incompleted. For example, Polly seems to be really happy, but actually we've never seen his "real expression", some of his thought were too deep to be seen even by the players, but you still can see some of them if you really think about it. I won't spit out all I think about him and Trucy and Gavins and everyone else here because I'm getting off topic now, what I want to say is you can't get the joy of digging the characters' personality and a pretty frank game at the same time.

And again, no offense to anyone here. Thanks to read.Sorry if it's hard to read...

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I really enjoyed AJ it had good cases i like klaviar and the music was good and wat people are saying about in 4-4 you are trying to prove Khristophs guilt who is already guilty bare in mind no-one knew why he had killed zak which i belive why he brought to court at the end of 4-4 it also shows that he was the one did the forgery and why he killed zak so i belive it was pretty important but i will admit out of the AA games case 4-4 is the weakest but is still fun to play.

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A huge problem AJ had was that they couldn't balance Apollo/Pheonix.

Pheonix NEVER shows up in court with Apollo except 4-1, and that's because Pheonix is the one on trial, funny that someone who loves it so much would find any excuse to avoid court (he didn't even show up in court with you in 4-4, why would he want to miss that?).

This means that you don't have a mentor for most of the game, the game compensates by making your assistant smarter (and she's not good enough about being vague.), and by making the Prosecutor help you too much.

This leads to barely any competition. Before, it was a battle of wits, the best lawyer would win, and now, your competition doesn't really care enough and helps you. Funny, considering that he actually has a good motive for going hard on you (you just PUT HIS BROTHER IN JAIL AND TEAMED UP WITH A DUDE WHO HE THINKS FORGED EVIDENCE!).

Also, 4-4 had too much Pheonix. Why couldn't Apollo do the present investigation and Pheonix do the past? The fact that Pheonix supposedly gives Apollo all this information in one big dump (we never even get to see how much Pheonix told Apollo, or Apollo's reactions to all this!) is strange, considering that Ema didn't tell you in 4-2 because you should investigate it yourself.

Also, Apollo was like Pheonix but less sarcastic, this makes him feel more bland and generic. It actually probably would have worked better if Apollo came 1st, then Pheonix, because then you would see contrast. Now it feels more like they took Pheonix and made him more generic to make Apollo.

However, I did think the ending was good. The only problem is it happens to early. You should have gone on for a huge, long time pwning Kristoph and THEN do that ending.

And I don't think Hobo Pheonix is too much of a change from our Pheonix, just bear in mind that you can't read his thoughts anymore, which makes him seem like much more of a prick.

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