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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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Spoiler: Case 2-2
But Maya never channeled Mimi. She was knocked out my Ini (who was really Mimi) and Ini dressed up as Maya and killed Dr. Grey

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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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Phantom Phoenix wrote:
Spoiler: Case 2-2
But Maya never channeled Mimi. She was knocked out my Ini (who was really Mimi) and Ini dressed up as Maya and killed Dr. Grey


I know that, I was just explaning the reasoning behind the Prosecution's argument.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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Richforce wrote:
Response to "Ghosts not accountable?" in 2-2

One thing I got from that case, even though it was never stated outright, was the impression that the mediums in the Fey clan have at least some form of control over the spirits they channel depending on how strong the spirit is. Maya was expected to control the spirit on account that she was going to be the next master, but she believed that she didn’t have enough training and that was got Dr. Grey killed. This could count as either Depraved Indifference (Recklessly creating a situation where there is a grave risk of death to a person) or Criminal Negligence (the failure to foresee and so allow otherwise avoidable dangers to manifest). In other words Maya was prosecuted because she wasn’t strong enough to control the spirit of Mimi but went ahead with the Channeling anyway. Hope this clears it up.


That's the impression I got too.

One thing I thought was odd though was that in a couple places, it was said that the channeler's spirit leaves their body and so they have no control over it--however, in a couple other places it was said that a good channeler could control the spirit :/
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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Oh, I see your agrument now. That whole case seemed to have a couple of holes in it. Basically what you guys have said. Morgan said that an experienced medium can control the spirit, but she also said that the spirit takes over the medium's body and the medium doesn't know what's going on. Kind of like when Maya channels Mia, she said she can't see what's going on when Mia is there. Also, Phoenix has Pearl channel Mia so Pearl wouldn't be able to see the trial.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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Here's one that was recently emailed to me, and I couldn't figure out if it was completely legitimate. Lemme know what you think. :sawit:

Reno-chan wrote:
I spotted a contradiction whilst playing GS2, the final case (Farewell, My
Tournabout). Basically, involving Lotta Hart's CAMERA. Lotta says she was
outside the room on the night of the murder, which is proved by the fact a
photograph was taken of Adrian in the costume... HOWEVER... Wendy Oldbag was
also there after "stealing" the camera that day, because she found a note
about the little affair Adrian was having with the murder victim.

Now... how could the camera have been stolen the day of the crime, when
Lotta was there WITH it to take a photograph? And Wendy MUST have taken it
to have gotten that note. Yet, the day after the crime, Lotta is whining
that she had her camera stolen.

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When Lotta left the hallway, Oldbag could have stolen it?
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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Well, Oldbag had to have stolen the note BEFORE Lotta took the picture, because that's why she was waiting in front of Juan's room.

The only explanation I can think up is that Oldbag took the shot of the Nickel Samurai herself. Lotta said herself that she didn't remember what pictures she'd taken that night, so we can't confirm that she's the one who took the Nickel Samurai picture. Although, if Oldbag was using the camera, wouldn't Lotta have noticed that she was using it if they were in the same hallway? So yeah, I guess it IS a contradiction after all.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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A quick question about Case 4 of AA

Lotta's enlarged photo shows one man pointing a gun at another. But if Yogi was pointing the gun directly at Edgeworth, how did he manage to miss and hit the water on purpose twice? Also, in the beginning of the case, they show one man pointing a gun at another. Now, the man holding the gun is Yogi. So after he fires, why does the man who wasn't holding the gun fall into the water since no one actually died? I know that Yogi purposely fell into the water, but Edgeworth had not yet picked up the gun. Edgeworth states that he picked up the gun after the man had been shot. So how could the man who was holding the gun remain on the boat?
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Last edited by Thorn on Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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Croik.... do you honestly believe Lotta would walk arround with less than two spare cameras? :aiga:
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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I can't explain how the camera was stolen without Lotta knowing that it was Oldbag. However, to be able to present a photo after the theft is pretty simple. Lotta probably took so many photos that day that she used the roll containing Adrian's picture in the Nickel Samurai suit, she probably changed it just before the theft. Also, knowing Oldbag, she probably found a way to get her hands on the camera, although how I cannot say.
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Well, as for how Oldbag stole it, didn't Lotta say something about putting it down for a second and then having it gone? Considering they were in the same hallway I think it's definitely feasible that Oldbag could have taken it in that situation, AFTER Lotta had taken the picture of the Nickel Samurai.

BUT. Oldbag was in the hallway to begin with because she saw the note in Lotta's camera. That's what's so strange about the whole thing.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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One thing that's been bugging me about case 1-5. How did Neil win the King of Prosecutors award? His competition was Manfred von Karma, who as we all know had a near perfect record, and had won the award many times previously. As good as Neil supposedly was, I find it hard to believe that he could beat out von Karma for that award.

The only explanation I can think of is that some rule prevented von Karma from being eligible for the award that year, like you can't win the award twice in a row or something (or they just disqualified him for winning too often).
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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^ Maybe, well, to reward new talents?

But I wonder why Edgeworth won the prosecutor award just before 1-5. I mean, he lost two freaking times and his perfect record was broken. Maybe for "helping" Phoenix in finding the truth and the real murderer? But still, it's a weird time to award him like that.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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?!

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Okay, old post, but..

Bayfield wrote:
Name: That's not how Psycho-Locks work!
Type Of Cough Up: Plot inconsistancy
Location: JFA Case 4
Description: The magatama finds out when a person is holding a secret, not when they are lying. Even if Matt answers "I didn't kill anyone", he would still hold the secret of hiring them, psycho-locks should have appeared. Using the lack of them as a plot device was rather cheap, plus it was Pearl's instance on doing so which made me believe Matt was guilty. Bad writers, bad foreshadowing, bad consistancy. BAD!


It's all in the wording. Matt clearly told Phoenix something along the lines of "I didn't murder Juan". This is technically correct, as Matt himself didn't do the killing. If Matt had said "I had nothing to do with the murder," then there would be a glaring plothole because he hired an assassin to do the job- thus he was involved.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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Happiness Punch! wrote:
But I wonder why Edgeworth won the prosecutor award just before 1-5. I mean, he lost two freaking times and his perfect record was broken. Maybe for "helping" Phoenix in finding the truth and the real murderer? But still, it's a weird time to award him like that.


Losing just two cases isn't bad for a prosecutor. And, besides, we don't know anything about what sort of competition he had; by 1-5, von Karma was gone.
...
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

>.<

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Name: Nods, shakes and answers
Type of cough-up: Overlooked graphics during translation
Location: All cases
Description: I don't know if anyone has noticed this, but sometimes when Phoenix nods or shakes his head it should be the reverse. This is merely because of the difference in wording between Japanese and English. Negative questions are the best example.

"You didn't go shopping today did you?"
"You're wrong, I did."

This is a version that would make sense, 'Sou desu' literally means 'That is so' or 'It is as you say' and is accompanied with a nod. If you were disagreeing you'd say 'it's different' (chigaimasu, or chigao if you were talking to your peer group) and shake your head.

Khaaan!: If memory serves, Matt said "I didn't kill anyone, including Juan." Also, the Psycho-locks kick in when someone holds something back from the person carrying it. Take Ini/Mimi for example, if you worked by that logic, you would've found out sooner that it was Mimi. However, the first thing you find out is the link to the victim, which she denies.
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Happiness Punch! wrote:
^ Maybe, well, to reward new talents?

But I wonder why Edgeworth won the prosecutor award just before 1-5. I mean, he lost two freaking times and his perfect record was broken. Maybe for "helping" Phoenix in finding the truth and the real murderer? But still, it's a weird time to award him like that.


...
Two losses compared to FOUR YEARS (starting at the age of TWENTY, no less) of perfect winning is NOTHING. I sincerely doubt that any non-von Karmic prosecutors had even anything CLOSE to that. You have to remember, these people aren't like Phoenix, who only takes a case every couple months or so. They are constantly working, so two losses in one year is actually pretty incredible.

Personally, I'd like to know how Lana won three Prosecutor of the Year awards when she was only a prosecutor for two years :sal:
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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Anyone have an answer for my previous question?
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

>.<

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It's a matter of angle. The positioning was as such that the tilt wasn't that obvious. Yogi did miss on purpose after all.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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I dunno if it has been said (though I used the search mode)


Name: Costumes
Type of cough-up: Wrong images?
Location: JFA Renuion and Turnabout, mainly Ini's Testimony
Description: On the second Photograph token by Lotta, you see Ini from front, with the blood on the costume. The blood is mostly on the underpart which is white. But when you look at Maya's costume as the piece of evidence, it is all on the purple. Also, Ini states "It was quite like blending in with the purple", but when you look at the second Photograph, you would see it way more on the white than on the purple.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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Name: Impossible Channeling
Type of cough-up: MAJOR Inconsistancy
Location: JFA Case 2 (Spoilers, but most likely everyone already knows)
Description:
Its said somewhere that Ini had studied channeling just for the sake of that murder, if i remember right.
However, she should have been found guilty of murder since the start of the case, because of Lotta's second pic.
Why? Because the pic should have shown "Ini's" face, not "Mimi's".

Ok heres the explanation...

Fake Ini had to do the channeling, cuz she knew Maya wouldnt be able to do so because Ini was really Mimi,
so she went, swapped places and channeled Ini, who was the real dead from the accident. However, her face shouldnt
have changed, not even a single bit with the channeling, she should have remained with this face! :ditz:
Mimi's face was reconstructed as Ini's, so if you channel Ini you get the exact same face you were given by
reconstruction. In other words, there was no way to get that Azn girl in Lotta's pic, her face didnt exist, neither
in this or the spirit world.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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?!

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There was no chanelling involved, actually. Ini was not a spirit medium.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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Ini and Minni are sisters. They look alike (with obvious differences that allow you to tell them apart). All she needed was a bit of makeup.
Props to Clicky for the avatar! =3
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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I love Rise From The Ashes and the characters of SL-9. That's why I keep picking at it to find weird things.

Name: That's The Way Blood Flows
Type of cough-up: *shrug* Just something that the investigators could have noticed.
Location: Rise From The Ashes, while exploring SL-9.
Description: When Neil was stabbed on the suit of armor, he coughed blood all over his shirt. Lots of it. If he had just been stabbed and fell forward, there would have been more blood on the floor than on his shirt. Maybe some blood, but not much.

Name: Dive For It, Joey!
Type of cough-up: Another unnoticed detail.
Location; Rise From The Ashes, SL-9 again.
Description: Everyone saw Ema's picture, right? The police and everyone? They thought it was Neil on the ground with Joe grabbing his shoulder ready to stick the knife into his back. If Joe had been standing over Neil, then did it really make sense that they found Neil dead on top of Joe?
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IagotheParrot wrote:
Name: That's The Way Blood Flows
Type of cough-up: *shrug* Just something that the investigators could have noticed.
Location: Rise From The Ashes, while exploring SL-9.
Description: When Neil was stabbed on the suit of armor, he coughed blood all over his shirt. Lots of it. If he had just been stabbed and fell forward, there would have been more blood on the floor than on his shirt. Maybe some blood, but not much.


That's actually a very good point. However, it was stated that he was alive for several moments before he died. He could have remained standing for a short amount of time, allowing the blood to spread, and then have fallen to the floor. As to why there wasn't more blood on the floor, I have no idea.

IagoTheParrot wrote:
Name: Dive For It, Joey!
Type of cough-up: Another unnoticed detail.
Location; Rise From The Ashes, SL-9 again.
Description: Everyone saw Ema's picture, right? The police and everyone? They thought it was Neil on the ground with Joe grabbing his shoulder ready to stick the knife into his back. If Joe had been standing over Neil, then did it really make sense that they found Neil dead on top of Joe?


We're actually not sure if they saw Ema's picture. Since the evidence list was separated, they did not have the full picture. However, they did have the half that had Neil and Joe on it. When its shown in court, I'm pretty sure Edgeworth says something like "Why have I never seen this?"
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IagotheParrot wrote:
I love Rise From The Ashes and the characters of SL-9. That's why I keep picking at it to find weird things.

Name: That's The Way Blood Flows
Type of cough-up: *shrug* Just something that the investigators could have noticed.
Location: Rise From The Ashes, while exploring SL-9.
Description: When Neil was stabbed on the suit of armor, he coughed blood all over his shirt. Lots of it. If he had just been stabbed and fell forward, there would have been more blood on the floor than on his shirt. Maybe some blood, but not much.


Well, it's technically a contradiction, but remember that Gant and Lana were concealing the evidence in that case. If they were able to erase a contradiction as major as the wrong murder weapon from the reports, surely a less noticeable and explainable contradiction such as this would have been easily erased as well.

IagotheParrot wrote:
Name: Dive For It, Joey!
Type of cough-up: Another unnoticed detail.
Location; Rise From The Ashes, SL-9 again.
Description: Everyone saw Ema's picture, right? The police and everyone? They thought it was Neil on the ground with Joe grabbing his shoulder ready to stick the knife into his back. If Joe had been standing over Neil, then did it really make sense that they found Neil dead on top of Joe?


Was it ever said that they found Neil on top of Joe? Neil's on top in the screenshot with the prosecutor award sticking out of his back, but because that wasn't even the murder weapon it's obvious that that screenshot is fake. Also, again, evidence was being forged in that case so most contradictions in SL-9 can be easily explained.
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As my second post...

Name: Whose prints?
Type of Cough-up: Inconsistency?
Location: JFA Case 2
Description: (This being an unnoticed flaw in the prosecution's argument) Now, the way they thought it happened,
Spoiler:
Maya channelled "Mimi" who stabbed then shot Grey, but if Maya's appearance were to change to that of the spirit, wouldn't her fingerprints change too? So, speaking hypothetically, why weren't they "Mimi's" fingerprints instead on the weapons? Just thought that was weird...



*Edit* If this was preiviously mentioned, I apologize. I'm such a noob... :payne:
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Zilvyc wrote:
As my second post...

Name: Whose prints?
Type of Cough-up: Inconsistency?
Location: JFA Case 2
Description: (This being an unnoticed flaw in the prosecution's argument) Now, the way they thought it happened,
Spoiler:
Maya channelled "Mimi" who stabbed then shot Grey, but if Maya's appearance were to change to that of the spirit, wouldn't her fingerprints change too? So, speaking hypothetically, why weren't they "Mimi's" fingerprints instead on the weapons? Just thought that was weird...



*Edit* If this was preiviously mentioned, I apologize. I'm such a noob... :payne:


Well, it was a court of law. I doubt evidence involving spirit channeling would be largely accepted, even WITH the photo that Franziska showed the judge. "When you channel spirits, their finger prints change" just wouldn't be an admissable testimony as far as I'm concerned.
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>_>

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You'd think, though, that the Judge would call something like the spirit's prints into question. I mean, he IS pretty unorthodox....
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SilverZephyr wrote:
Zilvyc wrote:
As my second post...

Name: Whose prints?
Type of Cough-up: Inconsistency?
Location: JFA Case 2
Description: (This being an unnoticed flaw in the prosecution's argument) Now, the way they thought it happened,
Spoiler:
Maya channelled "Mimi" who stabbed then shot Grey, but if Maya's appearance were to change to that of the spirit, wouldn't her fingerprints change too? So, speaking hypothetically, why weren't they "Mimi's" fingerprints instead on the weapons? Just thought that was weird...



*Edit* If this was preiviously mentioned, I apologize. I'm such a noob... :payne:


Well, it was a court of law. I doubt evidence involving spirit channeling would be largely accepted, even WITH the photo that Franziska showed the judge. "When you channel spirits, their finger prints change" just wouldn't be an admissable testimony as far as I'm concerned.


That's true. It is pretty far-fetched, but I would think that Franziska, already knowing about the whole appearance change thing, would think about the fingerprints. Though, knowing her, she'd probably hide it from the judge anyway. I'm not sure he would catch that on his own.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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Name: The Nickle Samurai!?
Type of cough-up: Inconsistency
Location: 2-2 and 2-4
Description: In 2-4, Pearl quite clearly shows that she has no knowledge of who the Steel or Nickel Samurais are. However, in 2-2, there is a contradiction. Upon examining her ball in the court record, you can quite clearly see that the steel samurai is on it. I'd imagine that Pearl's intelligent enough to read, being a prodigy and all.
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Perhaps she's heard of the Steel Samurai but not the Nickel Samurai? Doesn't she say something about watching the Steel Samurai with Maya?

Name: Disppearing Profile
Description: When I was re-playing case 2-1 I noticed that Gumshoe's profile is added to the Court Record. However, after a certain point, his profile disappears.

Name: Lotta doesn't age
Description: Okay, so in JFA everyone is supposed to be a year older right? Well, it states in the Court Record that Lotta is 23. Wasn't she 23 in the first game too?
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Oron999 wrote:
Name: The Nickle Samurai!?
Type of cough-up: Inconsistency
Location: 2-2 and 2-4
Description: In 2-4, Pearl quite clearly shows that she has no knowledge of who the Steel or Nickel Samurais are. However, in 2-2, there is a contradiction. Upon examining her ball in the court record, you can quite clearly see that the steel samurai is on it. I'd imagine that Pearl's intelligent enough to read, being a prodigy and all.


Pearl can't read. This is proven in 2-4, when she can't read the map that Gumshoe gives her, and in 2-2 when she misspells "ami" as "iam." She's a prodigy at channeling and picks things up pretty quickly, but she was just probably never taught to read by Morgan because she was supposed to focus on her channeling or something. She's also pretty young. As for why the Steel Samurai is on the ball in the first place, Maya probably bought the ball for her as Pearl wouldn't have been able to buy anything herself being cooped in all her life, young, and sheltered.

@Phantom Phoenix: Lotta is 22.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

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SilverZephyr wrote:
Oron999 wrote:
Name: The Nickle Samurai!?
Type of cough-up: Inconsistency
Location: 2-2 and 2-4
Description: In 2-4, Pearl quite clearly shows that she has no knowledge of who the Steel or Nickel Samurais are. However, in 2-2, there is a contradiction. Upon examining her ball in the court record, you can quite clearly see that the steel samurai is on it. I'd imagine that Pearl's intelligent enough to read, being a prodigy and all.


Pearl can't read. This is proven in 2-4, when she can't read the map that Gumshoe gives her, and in 2-2 when she misspells "ami" as "iam." She's a prodigy at channeling and picks things up pretty quickly, but she was just probably never taught to read by Morgan because she was supposed to focus on her channeling or something. She's also pretty young. As for why the Steel Samurai is on the ball in the first place, Maya probably bought the ball for her as Pearl wouldn't have been able to buy anything herself being cooped in all her life, young, and sheltered.

@Phantom Phoenix: Lotta is 22.


Ah. Well, that solves that. Still, there's a picture of the Steel Samurai on there.... However, I suppose it's not as odd as I'd first imagined. There are pretty obvious counter-arguments to it, I suppose.
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Pearl can read, she just can't read many kanji. Which...doesn't translate well over to the American version, that's for sure. But she's not completely illiterate.
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I don't know... they made up for the folding screen by saying that it was written in an ancient alphabet, maybe they'll do the same with Morgan's letter.
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That could happen with the english version, I guess we have to wait to find out. :ayame:
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US!

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This is really rather long....
before you start to read it you may want to get some coffee....

Spoiler: 3-3
Name: Toranosuke Shibakuzous (aka Zenitoras) Poison
Type of cough-up: Slight Inconsistancy.
Description: Firstly, It was mentioned a while back... why did Zentiora have poison on him when he met Takao?
The user who mentioned it, suggested as a possible solution, that Toranosuke might have used it as a threat...
if so, why not just bring a gun or a knife? It would be harder to threaten Takao with a bottle of poison than with a gun or knife.
Why did he bring the poison? He shouldn't of needed it. Takao (or anyone) winning the lottery is very very unlikely.

Secondly....
Name: Toranosuke Shibakuzous 'Monetry issues'
Type of cough-up: Slight Inconsistancy.
Description: Zenitora is a loan shark. Why could he not just borrow from his own company to pay back Shikabane?
If you took Takaos 50 million yen lottery ticket, and given Shikabane some of the money from his buisness (which should at least have 50 million yen) you get the 100 million to pay back Shikabane.

Surely risking the death penalty is much worse than taking Takaos 50 million yen ticket and taking 50 million from your own company.

And also,
why did NO-ONE see Zenitoras red face...
when Zenitora was pretending to be Takao, why didn't Igarashi mention that Takao was red.
or looked like Zenitora.

And as for the trial itself...

*Btw, I have not actually played PW:TAT yet,
I am using Croiks case description section as reference.

Basically.
Zenitora leaves a lot of contradictions. :zenny:

Matt DeMasque!
*Currently playing Spirit of Justice*
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title

My OTP. You wish it was yours.

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:17 pm

Posts: 4

A few I've found:

Spoiler: 1-5
Name: The Non-Investigator
Type of cough-up: Incorrect profile information
Location: 1-5, early investigation
Description: During case 1-5, Gumshoe's profile in the court record says the same thing it always does: "Detective at the local precinct. In charge of the initial investigation." However, it remains this way even after you find out that Gumshoe was booted out of this particular investigation.

Name: Gant is a MASTER OF LOGIC
Type of cough-up: Logical errors by characters
Location: 1-5
Description: So, we know Gumshoe was kicked off the 1-5 investigation for his loyalty to Edgeworth, and that Jake, despite being a patrolman, was put in charge instead.

Now.

Gant knew that Jake was investigating SL-9 on his own time. Gant knew that Jake suspected him. So why would he put Jake specifically in charge of the investigation of a crime that was not only linked with SL-9, but that Gant himself comitted? I realized he may have been confident, but why go out of his way to take that risk?


Spoiler: 2-2
Name: Ninja Franziska go!
Type of cough-up: Image errors
Location: 2-2, trial
Description: In the photograph taken by Franziska of Phoenix talking to Mia!Maya, the angle is... a bit odd. It appears to be floating in midair a little behind Phoenix's shoulder. So either Franziska hung a camera from the ceiling, or she's sneaking around behind Phoenix and neither he nor Mia notice.


Spoiler: 2-4
Name: Eyes like a hawk
Type of cough-up: Logical errors
Location: 2-4, final trial
Description: While discussing the suicide note, Edgeworth states that Matt knew the contents of the note because he had hidden cameras in Juan's house.
:objection:
I find it highly unlikely that Matt would be able to discern the contents of the note through a spy camera. It'd have to be zoomed in an incredible amount, and even then it would still be extremely difficult to read.
Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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Science: It's cuter than ever

Gender: Female

Location: Michigan

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:25 am

Posts: 999

Athena wrote:
Spoiler: 2-4
Name: Eyes like a hawk
Type of cough-up: Logical errors
Location: 2-4, final trial
Description: While discussing the suicide note, Edgeworth states that Matt knew the contents of the note because he had hidden cameras in Juan's house.
:objection:
I find it highly unlikely that Matt would be able to discern the contents of the note through a spy camera. It'd have to be zoomed in an incredible amount, and even then it would still be extremely difficult to read.


But remember, Juan had talked about the note with Adrian. All it would have taken was Matt overhearing one of their conversations for him to get the general gist of the note.
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