[LuAA] Nintendo DS Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:41 am

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

Code:

                                                      _               ____ ____
                                                     | |             / _  |  _ \
                                                     | |      __  __/ /_| | |_\ \ 
                                                     | |     / / / /  __  |  __  \
                                                     | |____/ /_/ /  /  | | |  \  \ 
                                                     |______\____/__/   |_|_|   \__\ 

LuAA is an Ace Attorney Casemaker scripted using Lua. This project is very community-based, so comments/questions/bug reports are always welcome. This will be open source.

GENERAL INFORMATION::

What makes LuAA special?

LuAA is an engine that combines flexibility within an easy-to-use user interface. Using Lua, a very versatile and popular programming language now (even Blizzard is using it for developing World of Warcraft add-ons), LuAA combines the Micro Lua DS library with custom functions embedded for use in emulating an Ace Attorney gaming environment.

Are there any applications required for the use of LuAA?

Besides the tools, emulators and editors (such as Lua editors, I prefer notepad myself ^^) included with the LuAA repository, there will never be a need for any exterior applications to be used for LuAA.

What image/audio formats does LuAA support?

In terms of images, LuAA supports .jpg/.gif/.png images. These images need not be parsed into binary files, etc.; they are loaded from their raw formats.

In terms of audio, LuAA supports .mod/.s3m/.xm/.it (module files) for background music. LuAA also supports .wav files for sound effects.

Where would I be able to learn Lua?

You should not need to fully utilize Lua's power when using the engine for simple tasks. However, if you wish to expand your knowledge or extend the power of the Micro Lua DS engine, here are some resources (I myself used ^^):

http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/index.html
http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaDirectory
http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaTutorial

Again, if you have questions on how to use the engine/Lua itself, I am always welcome :)

PLATFORMS::

LuAA will be supported on:

Windows:
no$gba emulator
Micro Lua DS simulator

Linux:
With wine:
no$gba emulator

Without wine:
Micro Lua DS simulator

Mac OSX:
With wine:
no$gba emulator

Without wine:
Micro Lua DS simulator

Nintendo DS:
With a flashcard, you can boot LuAA onto it and play it from there :)

DOWNLOADS::

DEMO!

http://www.mediafire.com/?432djngmih3

You must run this demo using no$gba emulator, which you can download here:

http://nocash.emubase.de/gba.htm

It will not run on an actual DS (you can, however, run it on an actual DS if you have the FAT version).

Yes it will run on a PC! This means a port is usually not needed if you choose to make the game directly with LuAA! Have fun ^^

Here's the coding for the entire script if you're wondering:

Code:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--                     _               ____ ____
--                    | |             / _  |  _ \
--                    | |      __  __/ /_| | |_\ \ 
--                    | |     / / / /  __  |  __  \
--                    | |____/ /_/ /  /  | | |  \  \ 
--                    |______\____/__/   |_|_|   \__\
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Title:               main.lua
-- Description:         Turnabout Tutorial Example Script!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dofile( "games/Turnabout Tutorial/evidence.lua" )
dofile( "games/Turnabout Tutorial/locations.lua" )

function next()
   continueTalking = true
end

function p( seconds )
   Timer.wait( seconds )
end

function small_shake()
   showshake(30, 2)
end

function main()
   return function()
      newbg( "movie/themooncriesforblood" )
      repeat
      shell.draw()
      render()
      bg.y = bg.y + 1
      until bg.y == 24
      addev(attorney_badge)
      addev(phoenix_young)
      newspeaker("Steel Samurai")
      say("You are going down, {newcolor(F77339)}Nickel Samurai{newcolor(FFFFFF)}!{next()} {p(2)}")
      newspeaker("Nickel Samurai")
      say("No, it will be you that shall be {flash(FFFFFF)}slain tonight, {newcolor(F77339)}Steel Samurai{newcolor(FFFFFF)}!{next()} {p(2)}")
      say("I {small_shake()}swear on my life!{next()} {p(2)}")
      defense = "Phoenix"
      prosecution = "Payne"
      witness = "Lamiroir"
      judge = "Judge"
      jury()
      holdit()
      takethat()
      objection()
      crossexamination()
      witnesstestimony()
      newspeaker("B12CORE")
      say("And that's a wrap!!")
   end
end

attorney_badge =
{
   name = "Attorney Badge",
   pic = "lawyer badge.png",
   info = {
      "Type: Other",
      "One of my possessions"
   },
   desc = {
      "It's my all-important badge.",
      "It shows that I am a",
      "defense attorney."
   },
   category = EVIDENCE
}

phoenix_young =
{
   name = "Phoenix",
   pic = "phoenix-young.png",
   info = {
      "Age : 21",
      "Gender : Male",
   },
   desc = {
      "LuAA Mascot."
   },
   category = PROFILES
}

The API should be fairly simple enough, I will dim it down if I need to!

--My Blog

priceless.

Last edited by B12Core on Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:35 am, edited 52 times in total.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:42 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

Hmmm, interesting.

My opinion about this project is that if it pulls off and works, it will be the bridge for fangames once first developed over PWLib and PyWright to the DS, in a very similar fashion to Remnants of the Past.

A version will be developed over PWLib or PyWright then some games will be ported to the DS via this casemaker. This would widen the availability of a game, since you could play it on the DS anywhere, but keeping the reach of the PC with the PWLib/PyWright version for those who don't have a DS/don't have the needed card/can't access the DS on a moment.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:33 am

DDRKhat

PWLib / AIGE developer

Gender: Male

Location: 127.0.0.1

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:27 pm

Posts: 649

Yes. If this could get done and then allow some form of cross compatibility with Either/both PWLib and PyWright then this would be incredibly helpful, I would love to be able to show off Phoenix Wright styled fan-games on my DS flash cartridge. There was previously rom hacking which allowed you to change the entire script that Gyakuten Saiban 2 followed and play it on DS (you literally saw the change) however that project was abandoned.

If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything!
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:53 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

It will depend on, if done, how the language will look like. Making an Integration Language is simple, but the returning way can not be simple to think beforehand.

I just hope people don't forget the work that was done on PWLib and PyWright when this casemaker gets done, if it do get done. With Shinku done, I think making an interchange from it would be relatively easy.

But it is interesting to note that a game made with PWLib sometimes won't be possible to convert completely to the DS. Same applies to PyWright. A mere custom lifebar would prevent it.

My view of this is exactly this: make your game with PWLib. It is good, well received? OK, then you port it on this.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:54 pm

DDRKhat

PWLib / AIGE developer

Gender: Male

Location: 127.0.0.1

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:27 pm

Posts: 649

KSA_Tech wrote:

But it is interesting to note that a game made with PWLib sometimes won't be possible to convert completely to the DS. Same applies to PyWright. A mere custom lifebar would prevent it.

Actually if you read what he had documented elsewhere, it will be using a FAT reading Lib, allowing custom content to be inserted into the game.

As for forgeting PWLib, I would not. However having the ability to offer portability of my game that I design on PWLib would be a huge bonus.

If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything!
"(Not)Guilty" for PWLib | Emergency Case Selection Fixes
Case 1-1 for PWLib | Pearl

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:13 pm

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

I know. Not custom gfx, but custom things like a custom screen for example.

Example: you developed a custom screen that allows a minigame. It would make the game not portable.

I still think that the objective of this project must be "port the good games to DS" and not "be a casemaker". The power you have with PWLib and PyWright are very above this project. And also I think having 2 versions (PC and DS) greatly widen the presence of the game.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:07 pm

Maxim

Gender: Male

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:07 am

Posts: 4

Don't get me wrong, but I don't think that will be ever finished... It's really easier to make new game, than reverse engineering DS-based trilogy. Maybe I just don't understand first post.
Change trials in DS is not so hard work. You can change it freely at this moment with some PW text editor. I made one by myself to translate game to my language.
For example, that's how first dialogs are looking in converted code:

Code:

<\persona:7|82|81>You mean, you knew the<\n>
defendant before this case?<\p>
<\persona:7|81|81><\name:512>Yes.<\p>
Actually, I kind of owe <\n>
my current job to him.<\p>
He's one of the reasons<\n>
<\wait:5>I became an attorney.<\p>
<\persona:7|80|79><\name:1792>Well, that's news to me!<\p>
<\persona:7|77|77><\name:512>I want to help him out<\n>
any way I can!<\p>
I just... really want to help<\n>
him. I owe him that much.<\p>
<\wait:15><\persona:7|81|81><\name:0><\quake:30|1><35><8><0><6><105><\n>
<18><769><8><31><\name:256><\font:3>(It's over!)<\font:0><\p>
<\persona:7|81|81><\quake:30|1><6><105><\n>
<\name:256><18><769><8><31><\font:3>(My life, everything,<\n>
it's all over!)<\font:0><\p>
<\name:1792>...<\p>
<\speed:255><\persona:7|82|81>Isn't that your client<\n>
<\wait:15>screaming over there?<\p>
<\persona:7|77|77><\name:512>Yeah... <\quake:30|0>that's him.<\p>

As you can see, there are many many tags. Each one do it's own things. <\bg:38> changing background image. <\wait:15> wait 15 msec. <\persona:7|77|77> - show Mia's image, etc. So, the trials are really easy to make. But I don't think that you can output Mia in the screen, by reading 8 bytes in file without changing main code... But if you'll make it - I think people will be very happy. :phoenix:

Sorry for my bad English.)

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:37 pm

DeMatador

They don't :c

Gender: Male

Location: http://www.ezilon.com/maps/images/southamerica/political-map-of-Argentina.gif

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:34 pm

Posts: 3188

Well, I think a Casemaker is an ambitious idea, almost TOO ambitious.

What would be better, as many have stated, would be asking you to port it after the game is 100% tested, corrected, debugged and completed. I mean, after a "Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney -Remnants of the Past- :Final Version:", for example, if it doesn't take a reeealy long time, some months after it's release (like I said, it's complete, finished version), you have the "Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney -Remnants of the Past- :DS Version:"

But that's just my opinion. In a few words: First completed game with PWLib/PyWright, then DS port.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:03 pm

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

My idea is the same as DeMatador.

First build it on PWLib then port it to the DS. Sounds the perfect way for things to go by.

I think that the casemaker idea is a bit too much (as DeMatador said), since we don't see gamemakers for the DS on the market.
Differently form the PC, the DS do not have virtual memory to handle that excess byte you need. When you develop the game directly (as PW is made) you do lots of tricks to economize memory. When you give the user the power do edit all of it, you need to handle lots of things. I learned that in AIGE. At first I thought "ah, making a visual novel engine is simple, you just need a bg, a char and a msgbox". After months in it, I saw how wrong I was.
In the beginning, it looks easy. Very easy. But the real face of it emerges one time or the other.

Personally I think that the idea should be at first make a solid game. It has way better chances of going live. I did that with AIGE, and it worked very good.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:13 pm

DeMatador

They don't :c

Gender: Male

Location: http://www.ezilon.com/maps/images/southamerica/political-map-of-Argentina.gif

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:34 pm

Posts: 3188

Exactly my point, KSA.

So, for now, you should first code this case you were going to do, B12Core. I recommend a funny, mock case, but covering all the features the AA series offers. That is: backgrounds, animations, sfx, music, effects (like shake, blink or fade. This could be the hardest part of it all). You know what I mean. Don't complicate yourself with a hard, manga-based case. If it's just a test to see what you can actually do with an engine like this, then I suggest my recommendation (lol redundance)

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:13 pm

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

KSA_Tech wrote:

Hmmm, interesting.

My opinion about this project is that if it pulls off and works, it will be the bridge for fangames once first developed over PWLib and PyWright to the DS, in a very similar fashion to Remnants of the Past.

A version will be developed over PWLib or PyWright then some games will be ported to the DS via this casemaker. This would widen the availability of a game, since you could play it on the DS anywhere, but keeping the reach of the PC with the PWLib/PyWright version for those who don't have a DS/don't have the needed card/can't access the DS on a moment.

In fact, you wouldn't even need to keep PWLib or PYWright available. The way the casemaker works is it will just read from a .ini file, which only requires 1 file, rather than an external library of images and sounds. This means that people can just open a no$gba or any emulator and run that 1 file to play.

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:27 pm

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

KSA_Tech wrote:

My idea is the same as DeMatador.

First build it on PWLib then port it to the DS. Sounds the perfect way for things to go by.

I think that the casemaker idea is a bit too much (as DeMatador said), since we don't see gamemakers for the DS on the market.
Differently form the PC, the DS do not have virtual memory to handle that excess byte you need. When you develop the game directly (as PW is made) you do lots of tricks to economize memory. When you give the user the power do edit all of it, you need to handle lots of things. I learned that in AIGE. At first I thought "ah, making a visual novel engine is simple, you just need a bg, a char and a msgbox". After months in it, I saw how wrong I was.
In the beginning, it looks easy. Very easy. But the real face of it emerges one time or the other.

Personally I think that the idea should be at first make a solid game. It has way better chances of going live. I did that with AIGE, and it worked very good.

I will be making a solid game, without an actual storyline, etc.

The only problem I may have is with examining of maps. This can be easily fixed, however, through the use of external .ini files stating the message given when a collision is detected between the examine square and the object.

I will be using the MILFS (Minimal INI Load Fat-File System) for the loading and saving of .ini files for this project.

Quote:

Code:

<\persona:7|82|81>You mean, you knew the<\n>
defendant before this case?<\p>
<\persona:7|81|81><\name:512>Yes.<\p>
Actually, I kind of owe <\n>
my current job to him.<\p>
He's one of the reasons<\n>
<\wait:5>I became an attorney.<\p>
<\persona:7|80|79><\name:1792>Well, that's news to me!<\p>
<\persona:7|77|77><\name:512>I want to help him out<\n>
any way I can!<\p>
I just... really want to help<\n>
him. I owe him that much.<\p>
<\wait:15><\persona:7|81|81><\name:0><\quake:30|1><35><8><0><6><105><\n>
<18><769><8><31><\name:256><\font:3>(It's over!)<\font:0><\p>
<\persona:7|81|81><\quake:30|1><6><105><\n>
<\name:256><18><769><8><31><\font:3>(My life, everything,<\n>
it's all over!)<\font:0><\p>
<\name:1792>...<\p>
<\speed:255><\persona:7|82|81>Isn't that your client<\n>
<\wait:15>screaming over there?<\p>
<\persona:7|77|77><\name:512>Yeah... <\quake:30|0>that's him.<\p>

Using the MILFS system, it will be as simple as this:

[Storyline]
LoadMap = Courtroom
LoadSound = Pretrial
Scr1Anim = SadMaya
Scr1Text = "Oh no :("
Scr1Event = null
Scr2Anim = RegMaya
Scr2Text = "I lost my jacket"
Scr2Event = Interrogation

[Interrogation]
Scr1Talk = null
Scr1Present = null
TALK OPTIONS HERE
PRESENT OPTIONS HERE
Scr2Talk = true
.
.
.

MILFS help make the coding easy and flexible. Thank you MILFS!
.
.

DDRKhat wrote:

KSA_Tech wrote:

But it is interesting to note that a game made with PWLib sometimes won't be possible to convert completely to the DS. Same applies to PyWright. A mere custom lifebar would prevent it.

Actually if you read what he had documented elsewhere, it will be using a FAT reading Lib, allowing custom content to be inserted into the game.

As for forgeting PWLib, I would not. However having the ability to offer portability of my game that I design on PWLib would be a huge bonus.

I haven't even seen PWLib's scripting format but I can assume that it's not in .ini format. Therefore I cannot guarantee it'll be easily convertable into my .ini format. However, my format is extremely simple, thanks to MILFS due to it being to read from a section and note the value after a key.

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:01 am

BigFish

Gender: None specified

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:19 pm

Posts: 449

Quote:

[Storyline]
LoadMap = Courtroom
LoadSound = Pretrial
Scr1Anim = SadMaya
Scr1Text = "Oh no :("
Scr1Event = null
Scr2Anim = RegMaya
Scr2Text = "I lost my jacket"
Scr2Event = Interrogation

[Interrogation]
Scr1Talk = null
Scr1Present = null
TALK OPTIONS HERE
PRESENT OPTIONS HERE
Scr2Talk = true

Okay, that has got to be THE ugliest script format I have ever seen. If you ask me, Maxim's system makes so much more sense than that. For one, if you screw up a number on the "Scr_" thing, then I bet everything's going to pretty much go to hell, and that 'event' thing better not be some kind of severely screwed up 'jump' command.

At the very least change the screen thing to something like this:
1 = "sadmaya|Oh no!"
2 = "regmaya|I lost my jacket!"
2jumpto = interrogation

So we can code cases for this thing without wanting to KILL OURSELVES.

(...and I mean, come on, when your script format is so screwy that it draws someone out of months of lurking, then you gotta KNOW there's something wrong. Anyone happy to see me back? ..... no, didn't think so.....)

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:47 am

saluk

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:36 pm

Posts: 770

Hi BigFish! Where ya been?

Yeah, I'm not so sure about the MILFS. For one thing, the name, hehe. It doesn't look that bad to me actually, but having to manage the number ids themselves is a recipe for disaster. AAO works this way, but since it is also an editor, there is no chance of getting the numbers wrong. PWlib made a small mistake in the beginning with requiring texture ids, which has meant a lot of redoing characters to make sure all of the ids vary. The situation is better now that KSA made texture ids floats, but also the problem there is a very minor issue, because most of the time you don't have to worry about the conflicts. With PyWright, my use of goto causes many errors, because proper names need to be given to a lot of code. I think the numbers here is probably worse than any of the above related issues.

Computers are wiz at counting, but people are not.

Although since the numbers start over in each section, it really isn't that bad. If you made it like the old BASIC, where the only thing that mattered was that each number was higher than the last, it would be alright.

Creator of PyWright, the lovable case construction system!
Also visit the PyWright post.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:42 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

With very small scripts, it is fine. But think a big game. It will get very complicated to deal with.

The texture ids been integers instead of named relates to speed, and it is AIGE, not PWLib directly. I have plans to add named, but i don't know. Floats were done to really avoid most of the collisions.

I don't like labels much because for small parts, it is ok, but for larger code, it can get cryptic needlessly. I don't like it since I learned C, so it's not because it's on PyWright.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:00 pm

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

BigFish wrote:

Quote:

[Storyline]
LoadMap = Courtroom
LoadSound = Pretrial
Scr1Anim = SadMaya
Scr1Text = "Oh no :("
Scr1Event = null
Scr2Anim = RegMaya
Scr2Text = "I lost my jacket"
Scr2Event = Interrogation

[Interrogation]
Scr1Talk = null
Scr1Present = null
TALK OPTIONS HERE
PRESENT OPTIONS HERE
Scr2Talk = true

Okay, that has got to be THE ugliest script format I have ever seen. If you ask me, Maxim's system makes so much more sense than that. For one, if you screw up a number on the "Scr_" thing, then I bet everything's going to pretty much go to hell, and that 'event' thing better not be some kind of severely screwed up 'jump' command.

At the very least change the screen thing to something like this:
1 = "sadmaya|Oh no!"
2 = "regmaya|I lost my jacket!"
2jumpto = interrogation

So we can code cases for this thing without wanting to KILL OURSELVES.

(...and I mean, come on, when your script format is so screwy that it draws someone out of months of lurking, then you gotta KNOW there's something wrong. Anyone happy to see me back? ..... no, didn't think so.....)

The Event is not a jump to command. It is loaded after the current Scr_.

The Scr_'s are provided for you so don't even bother thinking about screwing up.

And for one thing, it's still in development and I don't feel that this system is complex in any way. It should be easy to understand, and I'll probably provide some examples.

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:28 am

GolemdX

Argent Sunfly

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:23 pm

Posts: 47

I believe it is a simple, effective way to code. Just combine things such as emotions with text.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:36 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

It looks simple, but with big script it may not be so.

Think you wrote 2000 Src, but found out that you forgot a line at src40. What would you do?

I feel too that such a system maybe have some flow restrictions.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:44 am

MrCheeze

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:18 pm

Posts: 821

I don't see anything wrong with that code... Seems pretty simple...

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:36 am

BigFish

Gender: None specified

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:19 pm

Posts: 449

KSA wrote:

It looks simple, but with big script it may not be so.

Think you wrote 2000 Src, but found out that you forgot a line at src40. What would you do?

I feel too that such a system maybe have some flow restrictions.

I... I almost thought of that on my own. :keiko:

*ahem*

As for those who claim that B12Core's script format is easy to understand, then answer me this: Exactly what does every single line of that excerpt do?

Think about it... the only lines that actually make any sense in that thing are these ones:
* LoadMap = Courtroom
* LoadSound = Pretrial
* Scr1Anim = SadMaya
* Scr1Text = "Oh no :("
* Scr2Anim = RegMaya
* Scr2Text = "I lost my jacket"

Everything else is very unclear, even this 'interrogation' thing. What is that supposed to be? Cross-examination? Investigation? All that's there is some flags for true/false for each screen.

So yeah. Explain these strange, unusual parts to me, people.

Quote:

Hi BigFish! Where ya been?

Wow, didn't expect such a warm response when I've practically abandoned you and my first post back is practically flaming. :sawit:

As for where I've been, I barely believe it myself... for a while I think I was on the verge of going emo. No. Seriously. At the very least, I was such a mess that I just thought that. I... kind of ran away from everything and didn't really talk to anyone. To the point no one I know even knows it happened.

So, for this new year, I figured I'd stop and start over. So, uh... um, yeah. Probably sounds really stupid, right? I think it does. I know it does. It sounds ridiculous. :sadshoe:

...in fact, I really debated whether to post this or not... whether it was even real or me completely overreacting or something. But since I can barely remember what happened the last few months and that's what I do remember, I think this is right... :lana:

.... *siiiiiigh* (Although, in retrospect, it probably would have been better to dump this onto the 'problems' thread...)

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:39 am

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

BigFish wrote:

KSA wrote:

It looks simple, but with big script it may not be so.

Think you wrote 2000 Src, but found out that you forgot a line at src40. What would you do?

I feel too that such a system maybe have some flow restrictions.

I... I almost thought of that on my own. :keiko:

*ahem*

As for those who claim that B12Core's script format is easy to understand, then answer me this: Exactly what does every single line of that excerpt do?

Think about it... the only lines that actually make any sense in that thing are these ones:
* LoadMap = Courtroom
* LoadSound = Pretrial
* Scr1Anim = SadMaya
* Scr1Text = "Oh no :("
* Scr2Anim = RegMaya
* Scr2Text = "I lost my jacket"

Everything else is very unclear, even this 'interrogation' thing. What is that supposed to be? Cross-examination? Investigation? All that's there is some flags for true/false for each screen.

So yeah. Explain these strange, unusual parts to me, people.

Quote:

Hi BigFish! Where ya been?

Wow, didn't expect such a warm response when I've practically abandoned you and my first post back is practically flaming. :sawit:

As for where I've been, I barely believe it myself... for a while I think I was on the verge of going emo. No. Seriously. At the very least, I was such a mess that I just thought that. I... kind of ran away from everything and didn't really talk to anyone. To the point no one I know even knows it happened.

So, for this new year, I figured I'd stop and start over. So, uh... um, yeah. Probably sounds really stupid, right? I think it does. I know it does. It sounds ridiculous. :sadshoe:

...in fact, I really debated whether to post this or not... whether it was even real or me completely overreacting or something. But since I can barely remember what happened the last few months and that's what I do remember, I think this is right... :lana:

.... *siiiiiigh* (Although, in retrospect, it probably would have been better to dump this onto the 'problems' thread...)

I'll be making the SCR_'s before hand. You won't need to add or remove anything. All you'd need to do is place information into the slot after the =.

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:27 pm

MrCheeze

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:18 pm

Posts: 821

Well obviously there would be documentation...

But I get what KSA said now. He's right.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:54 pm

BigFish

Gender: None specified

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:19 pm

Posts: 449

Quote:

I'll be making the SCR_'s before hand. You won't need to add or remove anything. All you'd need to do is place information into the slot after the =.

That's not exactly going to solve anything. Lets say you have something like this:
1="Hi!"
2="Oh no!"

How would you add something inbetween there? Make a 1.5? Have some ridiculous jump sequence?

...and also please please ignore that last part of my post there. I'm back, so uh, yay. :|

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

BigFish wrote:

Quote:

I'll be making the SCR_'s before hand. You won't need to add or remove anything. All you'd need to do is place information into the slot after the =.

That's not exactly going to solve anything. Lets say you have something like this:
1="Hi!"
2="Oh no!"

How would you add something inbetween there? Make a 1.5? Have some ridiculous jump sequence?

...and also please please ignore that last part of my post there. I'm back, so uh, yay. :|

I just don't understand why there's so much criticism going around on a forum like this. It's not as if one profits from making a casemaker, so I don't see why someone should be discouraging another for a project such as this.

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:10 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

B12Core, one thing i'm going to say to you as a developer: numbered command execution like that is not a good option, because if you miss one line, you will need to re-set all lines ahead of it.

Example:

You get an script like this (generic):

1="What do you want for lunch?"
2="Maya wants hamburgers!"
3="But Miles wants something else."
4="And we only have Samurai Dogs."

Now let's say we want to add a new line after 2.

You would need to make 3 go 4 and 4 go 5:

1="What do you want for lunch?"
2="Maya wants hamburgers!"
3="And Pearl wants ramen!"
4="But Miles wants something else."
5="And we only have Samurai Dogs."

Think it if you have... 1000 lines.
So even BugFish's idea is a bit broken.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:39 am

BigFish

Gender: None specified

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:19 pm

Posts: 449

Actually, hey, I came up with a system that could solve this. If the INI file is the easiest and best way to get the script, then convert some other format to .ini! So, you'd have something like this:

Code:

@ptr1
"Stuff stuff stuff"
"More stuff"
"Blah blah blah"
@ptr2
"What do you want for lunch?"
"Maya wants hamburgers!"
"And Pearl wants ramen!"
"But Miles wants something else."
"And we only have Samurai Dogs."

...that would get turned into something like this:

Code:

[ptr1]
1="Stuff stuff stuff"
2="More stuff"
3="Blah blah blah"
[ptr2]
1="What do you want for lunch?"
2="Maya wants hamburgers!"
3="And Pearl wants ramen!"
4="But Miles wants something else."
5="And we only have Samurai Dogs."

Since the numbers would be automatically assigned, there wouldn't be any problem adding something in the middle! Also, such a converter would be very easy to write, especially for someone who apparantly works on a complicated library such as PALib. :keiko:

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:59 pm

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

BigFish wrote:

Actually, hey, I came up with a system that could solve this. If the INI file is the easiest and best way to get the script, then convert some other format to .ini! So, you'd have something like this:

Code:

@ptr1
"Stuff stuff stuff"
"More stuff"
"Blah blah blah"
@ptr2
"What do you want for lunch?"
"Maya wants hamburgers!"
"And Pearl wants ramen!"
"But Miles wants something else."
"And we only have Samurai Dogs."

...that would get turned into something like this:

Code:

[ptr1]
1="Stuff stuff stuff"
2="More stuff"
3="Blah blah blah"
[ptr2]
1="What do you want for lunch?"
2="Maya wants hamburgers!"
3="And Pearl wants ramen!"
4="But Miles wants something else."
5="And we only have Samurai Dogs."

Since the numbers would be automatically assigned, there wouldn't be any problem adding something in the middle! Also, such a converter would be very easy to write, especially for someone who apparantly works on a complicated library such as PALib. :keiko:

I was planning on using that format for factors in evidence names, details, etc.

However, I feel it would be easier to align the animation and text into the conversation in the same category to aid in organizing.

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:06 am

MrCheeze

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:18 pm

Posts: 821

Actually, if you're making a converter anyway, what about converting PyWright/PWLib files to ini?

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:08 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

I think that a direct conversion might be impossible due to the options available over both engines. PWLib way more then PyWright due to AHLSL, of course, but both would have issues.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:54 pm

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

Ok, I have completely demolished what I've been working on in the past (old storyline structure) and I have now used an ID system that will identify from the .ini file. The .ini file format should still be the same.

However:

The original songs that Capcom had used were .mod/.xm files. .mod songs are extremely small compared to our available .mp3 files.

The final .rom with only about 15 songs will be about 47 megabytes large. I'm not sure if this is a problem for anyone.

Also, .mods/.xms run much more efficiently, as well as load more efficiently. Due to DS's hardware (again), I MAY not be able to play sound effects alongside with the .mp3s.

This means I have two options:

Keep sound effects on (typewriter sounds and character speech blips)
Keep Music on (Background music)

I'm leaning towards the latter. However, opinions welcome.

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:58 pm

MrCheeze

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:18 pm

Posts: 821

Wait, are you ripping the mod's/xm's, or using mp3's?

Music if the former, sfx if the latter.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:07 pm

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

EDIT: I have .mp3 files and .raw files working perfectly together. I downgraded the .mp3 files to 56 kb/s.

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:43 pm

MrCheeze

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:18 pm

Posts: 821

Maybe music anyway then.

What's a raw file?

Re: [Dev] Nintendo DS Phoenix Wright Casemaker

Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:51 pm

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

MrCheeze wrote:

Maybe music anyway then.

What's a raw file?

A raw file is a sound file similar to a .wav file. It's used for small sound effects on the DS.

On a side note, this casemaker will allow for FAT loading of custom sprites which are in an encrypted .bin format. This means that people CANNOT rip your sprites if you include them in a package.

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.

Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:22 am

Lee Ji Hoon

^ Ji Hye Jang

Gender: None specified

Location: Your mom

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:16 am

Posts: 535

This should be great. I'll definately port Trials of Life once it's done, if possible.

Proud creator of the first released PWLib-made fangame! ^_^

Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.

Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:22 am

DaemonForce

It's stuck?

Gender: Male

Location: Olympia, WA

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:29 pm

Posts: 2107

Okay deep breath...

Fuuuuu....

I know this question is going to be really fuckin annoying for most of you but does it seem like a better idea to be generating these cases ON the DS platform instead of writing a bunch of untangible code and then wrapping/porting it to the DS? As of now I have a DS for testing purposes. No games, so I'm now a bit familiar with the Nintendo BIOS. I notice this thing supports drag-and-drop. Download Play looks interesting and I already have a few expectations how the casemaker should really be all because this feature exists. :lana:

Lana_Skyes_Heart wrote:

SO I was stuck all day inside the changing room with nothing but a glued on bra.

Panty thief strikes again! :-P

Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.

Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:33 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

There's one very simple answer for that:

a) No untangible code on the top casemakers. It depends on how long you go over it. Lazy people see programming-based CMS as hard because they are lazy on asking for help and trying to grasp it.
b) PC casemakers provide more horsepower to the developer. 256 color limit for example is not present over a PC casemaker. Also, recall of the customization power.
c) Limited power over the DS in scripting due to the DS hardware limitations.
d) Well, more targeting on release. You get anyone to play with the PC version, while the DS one will be limited to those with a DS and a compatible card.

People get too amazed by little, something expected.

And I'm sure that even if possible, this CM won't simply in a week get to the level of PWLib and PyWright. We aren't developing them for a while for no reason.

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.

Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:20 pm

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

KSA_Tech wrote:

There's one very simple answer for that:

a) No untangible code on the top casemakers. It depends on how long you go over it. Lazy people see programming-based CMS as hard because they are lazy on asking for help and trying to grasp it.
b) PC casemakers provide more horsepower to the developer. 256 color limit for example is not present over a PC casemaker. Also, recall of the customization power.
c) Limited power over the DS in scripting due to the DS hardware limitations.
d) Well, more targeting on release. You get anyone to play with the PC version, while the DS one will be limited to those with a DS and a compatible card.

People get too amazed by little, something expected.

And I'm sure that even if possible, this CM won't simply in a week get to the level of PWLib and PyWright. We aren't developing them for a while for no reason.

a) This is for the DS, a built .nds file with a .ini file loaded from FAT seems reasonable to me.

b) The images from ALL ace attorney games have under 256 colors, mind you. This is not an issue. In fact, using the DS's hardware against a casemaker for a game that was BUILT FOR the DS is really mindless, considering Capcom had no problems with these "hardware limits". Face it, Ace Attorney was made for the DS, not the PC.

c) There is honestly nothing wrong with DS in scripting due to its hardware. I have yet to have an issue unsolved at this moment. In fact, no offense, but I may have it looking better than PWLib when I begin fully working on this.

Also, I recently saw PWLib's scripts for the first time yesterday. The thing about AADS will be that instead of having to code for every single sprite, the sprite's GFX (encrypted so no one can rip them) will be required with only the amount of frames that the sprite has in order to make it work. Less work on their part, yes?

d) no$gba emulator.

KSA, I have nothing against you, but I don't feel like the criticism is without a bit of personal feelings behind it. I've seen you and saluk rattle on about who's casemaker is better in other threads. I do not feel you should care about which one is best, or self-proclaiming yours is the best. I don't feel that one should care about the benefits of themselves going into the development of a project based for the masses.

Also, for Dramatica:

http://www.mediafire.com/?yxxmmy5nmnm

:D

--My Blog

priceless.

Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.

Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:13 am

KSA_Tech

AIGE/PWLib Casemaker Developer

Gender: Male

Location: Brazil

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:38 am

Posts: 2731

a) It is about scripting requirements. PWLib and PyWright do have scripting, and it isn't seriously hard. Nothing related to "be on a .nds".

b) But the user can easily use higher quality sprites on a pc casemaker. Capcom would put high true color if they could. It is a real limitation of the DS, not that it will be a problem with AADS only.

c) I'm sure a machine with 4mb ram won't allow much scripting power like AHLSL or WhightScript (b11). And don't take 1.1 as the top quality, last final version of PWLib. 1.1 has things I don't like at all, and they were fixed on 1.2. You talk like things are easy to make, and is is irritating for me and saluk who took a lot of time working on our engines. And remember you're using a library that gives lot of things ready.
Also recall that 1.2 is very in secret, so you haven't seen the latest incarnation of it.
AHLSL is a generic language, so it allows more then PW. PWLib is just a small part of it. SAS is made to allow the developer to simple "do what they want to with animation". SAS is simple as possible. It isn't guided by the way you're doing on AADS.

d) no$gba = good, but recall the DS emulator is very heavy over the hardware. Check PWLib and PyWright minimal system requirements, then run no$gba in it.

I say PWLib is the best because:
1) Most games use it
2) Most people say PWLib is the best
3) It is the casemakers that provides the closer to real PW.

I say what I have backup to say. As I developed PWLib, I can't say it by my own opinion.

You are a guy I noticed to say a lot before things are done. I feel that you still don't realize how complicated a PW engine is. You did lots of things, and it looked simple. In the beginning, it does. So stop talking like "I'm going to own the world" because it isn't like it seems.

I'm a bit lazy over PWLib, so some things aren't as good as they should, but I may make things better with time.

And remember that PWLib is a PC Casemaker, and not meant to be a DS one. But even so, it recreates PW on PC very good.

And how far of PWLib have you seen?

PWLib 1.2 Under Development

PWLib Casemaker (Version 1.1) at http://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8788

Re: [Dev] AADS - Nintendo DS Casemaker.

Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:08 am

B12Core

LuAA Developer

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Posts: 607

KSA_Tech wrote:

a) It is about scripting requirements. PWLib and PyWright do have scripting, and it isn't seriously hard. Nothing related to "be on a .nds".

b) But the user can easily use higher quality sprites on a pc casemaker. Capcom would put high true color if they could. It is a real limitation of the DS, not that it will be a problem with AADS only.

c) I'm sure a machine with 4mb ram won't allow much scripting power like AHLSL or WhightScript (b11). And don't take 1.1 as the top quality, last final version of PWLib. 1.1 has things I don't like at all, and they were fixed on 1.2. You talk like things are easy to make, and is is irritating for me and saluk who took a lot of time working on our engines. And remember you're using a library that gives lot of things ready.
Also recall that 1.2 is very in secret, so you haven't seen the latest incarnation of it.
AHLSL is a generic language, so it allows more then PW. PWLib is just a small part of it. SAS is made to allow the developer to simple "do what they want to with animation". SAS is simple as possible. It isn't guided by the way you're doing on AADS.

d) no$gba = good, but recall the DS emulator is very heavy over the hardware. Check PWLib and PyWright minimal system requirements, then run no$gba in it.

I say PWLib is the best because:
1) Most games use it
2) Most people say PWLib is the best
3) It is the casemakers that provides the closer to real PW.

I say what I have backup to say. As I developed PWLib, I can't say it by my own opinion.

You are a guy I noticed to say a lot before things are done. I feel that you still don't realize how complicated a PW engine is. You did lots of things, and it looked simple. In the beginning, it does. So stop talking like "I'm going to own the world" because it isn't like it seems.

I'm a bit lazy over PWLib, so some things aren't as good as they should, but I may make things better with time.

And remember that PWLib is a PC Casemaker, and not meant to be a DS one. But even so, it recreates PW on PC very good.

And how far of PWLib have you seen?

I don't feel like I'm going to own the world. In fact, this was just a tiny project I had, nothing related to competition with your casemaker. I was developing with this library recently and I was looking for something to do. Hence, I have found this.

I don't feel there really is anything difficult about this, as of yet. No offense, I realize and acknowledge the amount of work you have completed in the creation of PWLib but a casemaker isn't THAT difficult in my opinion. This is just a small project of mine, one of which I probably will be spending a lot of time on. Either way, I hope this will be completed and that all goes well with you and saluk. I don't want the creation of this casemaker to create any disputes.

Also:

I by no means am getting "guided" along this. The library comes along with a few simple scripts, not something that would "guide" me along making this engine. Just because I feel a casemaker is not necessarily difficult does not mean you should be offended by that. Different code has their own advantages and disadvantages. AADS is coded in C. C, in my opinion, is equal to if not more efficient than "AHLSL".

--My Blog

priceless.

Last edited by B12Core on Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.