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I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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Zak didn't know Phoenix had gotten a piece of forged evidence from elsewhere. He must have assumed Phoenix had forged it, and that Zak had judged his character wrong. Since Phoenix had beaten him at poker, thats why he thought he had good character. So he assumed he was cheating when they played. Also, using that forged paper made it so Zak had to flee, which also ruined his life. He'd never get to perform magic again, and he wouldn't be able to raise his daughter.
Now Zak starts to hear that Phoenix is raising Trucy. This worries him, because he thinks he'd be a horrible influence on her, as he still thinks he's a cheater. Then he hears about Phoenix's unbeaten record for 7 years in poker. Knowing his daughter's power, he also assumes Phoenix is using her to keep up his "lie". Now he thinks Phoenix needs to stay away from his daughter. So he arranges for Phoenix to lose everything. This is why he also "clears" Valant of any wrong doing with his thing. He assumes Valant would be better then Phoenix, and he's hoping she goes to him
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
I'd say
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Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
Good 'til the last drop.
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But have you also figured out Kirstoph's motive in 4-1?
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Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
Ooh, a real drumroll. Nice.
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Spoiler:
Quote:
I am in your capable hands.
. He only clears Valant's name because it doesn't matter for him beacause he's dead and doesn't want more suffering for Valant. Whew! I'm done now.
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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Zak did not plan to disappear. It was a contingency plan.
He did trust Phoenix, but after the forged evidence incident, he probably saw Phoenix in a different light
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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et91 wrote:
INow Zak starts to hear that Phoenix is raising Trucy. This worries him, because he thinks he'd be a horrible influence on her, as he still thinks he's a cheater. Then he hears about Phoenix's unbeaten record for 7 years in poker. Knowing his daughter's power, he also assumes Phoenix is using her to keep up his "lie". Now he thinks Phoenix needs to stay away from his daughter. So he arranges for Phoenix to lose everything. This is why he also "clears" Valant of any wrong doing with his thing. He assumes Valant would be better then Phoenix, and he's hoping she goes to him
But it was Zak who told Trucy to go to Phoenix in the first place, two weeks after the trial was over. So either the two of them were around together up until then, and Zak told Trucy to stay with Phoenix even suspecting he was a lying forger who ruined him (which contradicts your theory) or the last time father and daughter saw each other was at the court house, and Trucy was on her own for those two weeks or maybe in an orphanage of some kind (meaning he set up this "escape plan" without any real intentions of securing his daughter's future at all).
Remember that all Zak had to do in that flashback case to prove his innocence was to produce the ripped out journal sheet he had which said that Magnifi had passed on his rights to him. It would have showed that he passed Magnifi's test and had no motive for killing him, and left no room for Kristoph's forged page. The fact that he didn't just tell everyone the full truth means he didn't really intend on being found innocent anyway, or maybe he really did think Valant had done it and was covering for him (though if he really gave a shit about Valant he should have left the tricks to him...)
Personally I think Zak wanted out of the Troupe and decided the trial was a good way to make the most explosive exit possible.
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
Remember that all Zak had to do in that flashback case to prove his innocence was to produce the ripped out journal sheet he had which said that Magnifi had passed on his rights to him. It would have showed that he passed Magnifi's test and had no motive for killing him
It wouldn't necessarily prove that Zak had no motive, because his motive was supposed to be that he was being blackmailed by Magnifi. Having Magnifi's tricks wouldn't remove that element.
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
et91 wrote:
INow Zak starts to hear that Phoenix is raising Trucy. This worries him, because he thinks he'd be a horrible influence on her, as he still thinks he's a cheater. Then he hears about Phoenix's unbeaten record for 7 years in poker. Knowing his daughter's power, he also assumes Phoenix is using her to keep up his "lie". Now he thinks Phoenix needs to stay away from his daughter. So he arranges for Phoenix to lose everything. This is why he also "clears" Valant of any wrong doing with his thing. He assumes Valant would be better then Phoenix, and he's hoping she goes to him
But it was Zak who told Trucy to go to Phoenix in the first place, two weeks after the trial was over. So either the two of them were around together up until then, and Zak told Trucy to stay with Phoenix even suspecting he was a lying forger who ruined him (which contradicts your theory) or the last time father and daughter saw each other was at the court house, and Trucy was on her own for those two weeks or maybe in an orphanage of some kind (meaning he set up this "escape plan" without any real intentions of securing his daughter's future at all).
Remember that all Zak had to do in that flashback case to prove his innocence was to produce the ripped out journal sheet he had which said that Magnifi had passed on his rights to him. It would have showed that he passed Magnifi's test and had no motive for killing him, and left no room for Kristoph's forged page. The fact that he didn't just tell everyone the full truth means he didn't really intend on being found innocent anyway, or maybe he really did think Valant had done it and was covering for him (though if he really gave a shit about Valant he should have left the tricks to him...)
Personally I think Zak wanted out of the Troupe and decided the trial was a good way to make the most explosive exit possible.
Any prosecutor could have used the true journal page against Zak. Klavier could argue that Zak was just making sure he got the rights and once he did, he no longer wanted to be blackmailed by Magnifi so he killed him as well.
As far as caring about Valant, thats the worst argument I've ever seen: So because Valant ruined his life, he should have left the rights to him instead of his own flesh and blood? Family comes before friends. Always. And he still did care about Valant afterwards. Why would he clear his name? It was Valant that didn't give a shit about anyone but himself. He only "felt remorse" after it became clear he wouldn't get the rights to the magic.
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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et91 wrote:
[Any prosecutor could have used the true journal page against Zak. Klavier could argue that Zak was just making sure he got the rights and once he did, he no longer wanted to be blackmailed by Magnifi so he killed him as well.
Not having the journal page to explain the blank in the diary is what made Zak so suspicious in the first place - the fact that Magnifi wrote nothing after Zak appeared placed the blame on him. If Zak had proved that he had passed Magnifi's test and obtained his life's work, that shifts the motive on to Valant. They both had equal motive to not want to be blackmailed anymore, but it was Valant who had been snubbed. If the police had known that from the beginning I think they would have taken a closer look at him.
If you add to that the fact that Phoenix was able to prove the murder took place later, after Zak had already left, they could have won. No matter when Zak had decided to show that page, whether it be before or during the trial, it would have helped his case.
Quote:
As far as caring about Valant, thats the worst argument I've ever seen: So because Valant ruined his life, he should have left the rights to him instead of his own flesh and blood? Family comes before friends. Always. And he still did care about Valant afterwards. Why would he clear his name? It was Valant that didn't give a shit about anyone but himself. He only "felt remorse" after it became clear he wouldn't get the rights to the magic.
Okay, maybe not give Valant the rights. But he certainly could have left his will behind before making a break for it. At least then Trucy would know that her father disappeared so that she could oneday inherit those tricks, and maybe then Valant wouldn't have been broadsided only days before his much-hyped new magic show. If his career wasn't over before, it probably is now.
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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Croik wrote:
et91 wrote:
[Any prosecutor could have used the true journal page against Zak. Klavier could argue that Zak was just making sure he got the rights and once he did, he no longer wanted to be blackmailed by Magnifi so he killed him as well.
Not having the journal page to explain the blank in the diary is what made Zak so suspicious in the first place - the fact that Magnifi wrote nothing after Zak appeared placed the blame on him. If Zak had proved that he had passed Magnifi's test and obtained his life's work, that shifts the motive on to Valant. They both had equal motive to not want to be blackmailed anymore, but it was Valant who had been snubbed. If the police had known that from the beginning I think they would have taken a closer look at him.
If you add to that the fact that Phoenix was able to prove the murder took place later, after Zak had already left, they could have won. No matter when Zak had decided to show that page, whether it be before or during the trial, it would have helped his case.
Quote:
As far as caring about Valant, thats the worst argument I've ever seen: So because Valant ruined his life, he should have left the rights to him instead of his own flesh and blood? Family comes before friends. Always. And he still did care about Valant afterwards. Why would he clear his name? It was Valant that didn't give a shit about anyone but himself. He only "felt remorse" after it became clear he wouldn't get the rights to the magic.
Okay, maybe not give Valant the rights. But he certainly could have left his will behind before making a break for it. At least then Trucy would know that her father disappeared so that she could oneday inherit those tricks, and maybe then Valant wouldn't have been broadsided only days before his much-hyped new magic show. If his career wasn't over before, it probably is now.
For the first part, I still don't think he would have won the case. There's still reasonable doubt(which is basically the reverse of what it is in America), which means he would not have been found not guilty. And Phoenix wasn't able to prove that until long after.
And for the second part, thats mostly Phoenix's fault. Phoenix didn't give Valant any warning at all that it was coming up. And Zak didn't leave a will because he didn't think he'd need it.
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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et91 wrote:
And for the second part, thats mostly Phoenix's fault. Phoenix didn't give Valant any warning at all that it was coming up. And Zak didn't leave a will because he didn't think he'd need it.
But the game does indicate that Zak planned ahead of the trial to escape (whether he planned to escape even if the trial was going his way is still up to debate). He told Phoenix "I can't be found guilty" and had already made a plan with Trucy before the trial even started. And I'm sure he must have realized that if he fled from a court of law, he wouldn't exactly be allowed to come back right away. How could he think to himself it wasn't necessary? All in all, he was pretty careless.
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
Cross-examining your posts!
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Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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FSTA wrote:
Honestly, I don't think the creators thought it out this well. They basically make it come off as if he is just a jerk. Perhaps it may be elaborated upon in the future.
Basically the Zak of 4-4 and the Zak of 4-1 were different characters imo. I'm trying to make it make sense
Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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It is my belief that Zak knew the forged evidence wasn't Phoenix's fault
Spoiler: Game Script Circumstantial Evidence
Also, during the point that Phoenix was accused of presenting the forged evidence, Zak was there. Phoenix objects that he didn't prepare the evidence; Zak was there. Zak probably would tell whether he was lying, right?
Also, I have a hard time Zak would feel that way about Phoenix about this when this happened:
Spoiler: More Game Script
or this
Spoiler: More
And I think Zak knew that Phoenix didn't forge that evidence. Unless he doesn't sound so sincere here...
Spoiler: Game Script
So far, this is the evidence that Zak thinks Phoenix is a bad man.
Spoiler: Counter-Arguement XD
But then he says later
Spoiler: Later
My conclusion is that Zak.... is a jerk. Well, honestly, I haven't come to a conclusion due to I haven't thought of it. But that last line, makes me think that Zak was alluding to his actions; because he cheated, he couldn't necessarily be trusted.
I dunno, this whole situation is weird. But I thought I'd bring those up. I know I'm going to be bashed and refuted, but here's the (circumstantial) evidence, ya'll. Overall, I still think that Zak knew that Phoenix did not mean to bring up forged evidence, and that the fact that he wanted to defeat him in poker was probably due to stupid pride.
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Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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I disagree. Zak is not an idiot. He knew his daughter had been instructed by someone to give Phoenix a peice of paper, and I'm sure he could tell from Phoenix's reaction that he did not really forge it. Also, if anything, the poker match had assured him that Phoenix was a trustworthy person. He might have realized it was Kristoph from the beginning, since after playing him and seeing who he really was, he fired him. Also, Zak shows him the real page years later.
Also, using that forged paper made it so Zak had to flee, which also ruined his life. He'd never get to perform magic again, and he wouldn't be able to raise his daughter.
Perhaps a bitter Zak might have convinced himself of that after years in hiding, without his daughter or magic, but I doubt he saw it that way at the time. Zak didn't have to flee. He had the real page in his possession, so he could have appealed the verdict. His biggest concern, other than a guilty verdict, was probably keeping that paper in his hands, to ensure he'd one day be able to pass the rights to Trucy.
Now Zak starts to hear that Phoenix is raising Trucy. This worries him, because he thinks he'd be a horrible influence on her, as he still thinks he's a cheater. Then he hears about Phoenix's unbeaten record for 7 years in poker. Knowing his daughter's power, he also assumes Phoenix is using her to keep up his "lie". Now he thinks Phoenix needs to stay away from his daughter. So he arranges for Phoenix to lose everything. This is why he also "clears" Valant of any wrong doing with his thing. He assumes Valant would be better then Phoenix, and he's hoping she goes to him.
Starts to hear? He was the one who told her to go to him in the first place. Phoenix raised her for seven years on essentially no income, even after the girl's father cost him so much. Zak was grateful for this. And if he wanted her to go to Valant, he could have said that to her seven years ago. But Valant wasn't much better off than Phoenix.
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Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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Re: I think I figured out Zak's motivation in 4-1(4-4 spoilers)
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If everything he did in 4-1 was just a dumb practical joke that went wrong - the frisking, the card sharp, everything. It certainly fits the mindset of a man who'd vanish from a courtroom and leave his daughter in a near-stranger's hands.
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