Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
What is my liiiife?!?
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"I like this, but I think that there's something wrong with this bit here, it doesn't sound natural. Perhaps.."
...compared to...
"This sucks, you're a useless writer, you got this totally wrong by...."
No-one here's actually being that rude, which is awesome, but demanding things from people never works.
Also Icer, 'large proportion of fans' my arse. Your opinion is a minority. And I distinctly remember you agreeing with Croik that we shouldn't be focussing on proportions anymore. :3
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
What is my liiiife?!?
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Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
I'd say
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Criticism is one thing, but duplicating prior rants is another.
Then again, don't mind me here, just enjoying seeing this madness further develop.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Gerkuman wrote:
Also Icer, 'large proportion of fans' my arse. Your opinion is a minority. And I distinctly remember you agreeing with Croik that we shouldn't be focussing on proportions anymore. :3
Then you can't claim it's a 'minority'. You have no way of knowing. Some kind of Court Records poll is not a valid measurement of the fanbase as a whole, and it never surveyed for a question like 'When you were playing, did you wonder why Maya and Edgeworth never showed up or were properly mentioned since it seemed inconsistent.' [And why else would the Edgeworth game be being made except as a placationary attempt? At the very least it can be taken to indicate marketing thinks a lot of the old fanbase are wanting something other than more Apollo aka more of the old cast.]
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
And I also think it's a minority, considering the proportions of this thread's opinion.
I see. Every single fan of the Gyakuten Saiban series comes and posts in this thread, or even a large, unbiased sample of them.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Ceres wrote:
I concur with Gerk's Guano theory , and by everyone I mean EVERYONE. Including myself.
Criticism is one thing, but duplicating prior rants is another.
Then again, don't mind me here, just enjoying seeing this madness further develop.
Criticism is one thing, but duplicating prior rants is another.
Then again, don't mind me here, just enjoying seeing this madness further develop.
this is very unrelated, but good god is that avatar creepy/awesome
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
The Mouth of Sauron
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icer wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
And I also think it's a minority, considering the proportions of this thread's opinion.
I see. Every single fan of the Gyakuten Saiban series comes and posts in this thread, or even a large, unbiased sample of them.
Yup!
Gozu wrote:
omg ur just lik 
did ur parents di or somefin
did ur parents di or somefin
icer wrote:
Trucy: [Daddy was fired from legal clerk for loitering] Daddy has a fun new job as a street sweeper!
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
I OBJECT.....in Spanish.
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We can compare this debate MANY others concerning ANY series with dramatic change in it.
BEST SMILIE EVAR
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
Overruled?
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Protesto wrote:
The lone fact is, People do not like change. We latch onto the PW characters as if they are million dollar checks. What if an Apollo trilogy came out first? Everyone on the PW side would be with AJ, and vise versa. We have only seen one Apollo game, Give him a chance! We may even it better than the original series.
We can compare this debate MANY others concerning ANY series with dramatic change in it.
We can compare this debate MANY others concerning ANY series with dramatic change in it.
The reason we PW fans like the original trilogy's cast better is because even by the end of the first game, the main cast was very well developed and characterized. We actully had a reason to care about them and how they connected to the plot.
Apollo's cast...? At the moment, not so much.
We know nothing about Apollo's background, motivation, or anything other then his family background, which outside of the braclet, has little meaning on his character. Trucy had a background, but frankly her character just felt as flat as Kate Moss' chest. Klavier seemed like he was trying to be 2-4 Edgeworth, only without the development into it.
Yes, I suppose the AJ cast does have plenty of potential, but that depends on how the writers use it. If they pull it off well, then bravo and whoopie for them, I just wish I didn't have to spend 30 dollars a game for them to do it.
On the flipside, AA1 proved to us you can create a well-crafted, interesting story with beleievable and well-developed characters to the point where sequels weren't absolutely needed to pull it off.
Basically my point is, don't berate the PW fans just cause we aren't condeming the original trilogy to the depths of hell and throwing roses to AJ like it's a victorious bullfighter. Let us wait until the new characters actully become well-written and developed before you force us to pass judgment.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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This theory is my way of coping with how such a thing could be possible, for them to have zero influence on Phoenix's life so soon. It simply dosen`t make sense to me.
Only 3 things I can think of:
1. Lazy, forgetful writing
2. They all DIED
3. This theory is true
I even said before that One simple line about phoenix's friends trying and failing to help him, and him pushing them away, would have solved everything. Why would they deliberately leave out something like that, especially since 3-5(and most of T&T) went out of its way to show how many people's lives Phoenix affected and what they would do for him?
Heck, if Ema of all people, who he hadn`t seen in at least 2 years, made a mini spy camera for him, wouldn`t Maya and edgeworth at least try to do proportionally the same?
Love is Patient, Love is faith, Love is everlasting
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Protesto wrote:
The lone fact is, People do not like change. We latch onto the PW characters as if they are million dollar checks. What if an Apollo trilogy came out first? Everyone on the PW side would be with AJ, and vise versa. We have only seen one Apollo game, Give him a chance! We may even it better than the original series.
We can compare this debate MANY others concerning ANY series with dramatic change in it.
We can compare this debate MANY others concerning ANY series with dramatic change in it.
The reason we PW fans like the original trilogy's cast better is because even by the end of the first game, the main cast was very well developed and characterized. We actully had a reason to care about them and how they connected to the plot.
Apollo's cast...? At the moment, not so much.
We know nothing about Apollo's background, motivation, or anything other then his family background, which outside of the braclet, has little meaning on his character. Trucy had a background, but frankly her character just felt as flat as Kate Moss' chest. Klavier seemed like he was trying to be 2-4 Edgeworth, only without the development into it.
Yes, I suppose the AJ cast does have plenty of potential, but that depends on how the writers use it. If they pull it off well, then bravo and whoopie for them, I just wish I didn't have to spend 30 dollars a game for them to do it.
On the flipside, AA1 proved to us you can create a well-crafted, interesting story with beleievable and well-developed characters to the point where sequels weren't absolutely needed to pull it off.
Basically my point is, don't berate the PW fans just cause we aren't condeming the original trilogy to the depths of hell and throwing roses to AJ like it's a victorious bullfighter. Let us wait until the new characters actully become well-written and developed before you force us to pass judgment.
You also forget that AA1 wasn't written with a sequel in mind, so of course they'd try to get as much about the characters in as they could. With AJ, they expect for there to be a sequel, so it's more evenly paced.
@Handren:
I believe number 4. They just didn't show up.
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Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Protesto wrote:
The lone fact is, People do not like change. We latch onto the PW characters as if they are million dollar checks. What if an Apollo trilogy came out first? Everyone on the PW side would be with AJ, and vise versa. We have only seen one Apollo game, Give him a chance! We may even it better than the original series.
We can compare this debate MANY others concerning ANY series with dramatic change in it.
We can compare this debate MANY others concerning ANY series with dramatic change in it.
The reason we PW fans like the original trilogy's cast better is because even by the end of the first game, the main cast was very well developed and characterized. We actully had a reason to care about them and how they connected to the plot.
Apollo's cast...? At the moment, not so much.
We know nothing about Apollo's background, motivation, or anything other then his family background, which outside of the braclet, has little meaning on his character. Trucy had a background, but frankly her character just felt as flat as Kate Moss' chest. Klavier seemed like he was trying to be 2-4 Edgeworth, only without the development into it.
Yes, I suppose the AJ cast does have plenty of potential, but that depends on how the writers use it. If they pull it off well, then bravo and whoopie for them, I just wish I didn't have to spend 30 dollars a game for them to do it.
On the flipside, AA1 proved to us you can create a well-crafted, interesting story with beleievable and well-developed characters to the point where sequels weren't absolutely needed to pull it off.
Basically my point is, don't berate the PW fans just cause we aren't condeming the original trilogy to the depths of hell and throwing roses to AJ like it's a victorious bullfighter. Let us wait until the new characters actully become well-written and developed before you force us to pass judgment.
You also forget that AA1 wasn't written with a sequel in mind, so of course they'd try to get as much about the characters in as they could. With AJ, they expect for there to be a sequel, so it's more evenly paced.
@Handren:
I believe number 4. They just didn't show up.
Can you elaborate, please? Do you mean that people have Extrapolated their relationships with Phoenix in that it is not Unreasonable to think they would not care about him 2 months after 3-5 to the point they're not even worth a passing mention in the flashback? That all the bonds Phoenix had with people were just lies we made up in our heads?
I`m sorry, but with they charachter development I've seen after playing through the trilogy three times, there's no way I can see them just "not showing up" as anythign else but under the category of Lazy, forgetful writing.
Love is Patient, Love is faith, Love is everlasting
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Tell me, if you were an apprentice to someone who had a lot of friends, would you want to see them around all of the time? I wouldn't care about them, to be honest. It's the same here. Phoenix's friends just didn't relate to Apollo and his plot, unlike the characters that were used.
That's not our point, our point is if the certain people were still around and friends with Nick, i.e. "alive and in character", they'd be nigh-unavoidable. (Maya and Pearls come to mind.) Thus, their absence is lazy, bad writing.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Tell me, if you were an apprentice to someone who had a lot of friends, would you want to see them around all of the time? I wouldn't care about them, to be honest. It's the same here. Phoenix's friends just didn't relate to Apollo and his plot, unlike the characters that were used.
How many times must I repeat myself.
WE PLAY AS PHOENIX, IN BOTH PRESENT AND PAST 7 YEARS AGO. Thus your assertion is irrelevant.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
Overruled?
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Quote:
You also forget that AA1 wasn't written with a sequel in mind, so of course they'd try to get as much about the characters in as they could. With AJ, they expect for there to be a sequel, so it's more evenly paced.
If anything, that just proves you can give the characters proper background and development in one game, then do nothing but expand on it in future games. It wouldn't had killed the writers to give us SOME info about Apollo's past or motivation in this game.
...unless of course they don't have any idea of what do with his character at the point the script was written... thus proving my theory that they haven't planned out this new series at all and are just making things up as they go along.
Quote:
It's the same here. Phoenix's friends just didn't relate to Apollo and his plot, unlike the characters that were used.
Actully there are two plot points in AA4 that were rather vague and unexplained that could be answered with Maya and Edgeworth.
1) The Magatama - While everyone who played the original trilogy knows full-well about the Magatama and it's origins, the intended audience the game was made for - new people to the series, are probably really confused about where Phoenix got a mystical item that lets him see those weird locks. Maya could had returned in 4-4's flashbacks to explain this to us.
2) The Jurist System - One of the bigger plot holes in 4-4 is how Phoenix was able to set up the jurist system. He's been disbarred from being a defense attorney for seven years for presenting forged evidence, yet the legal department somehow lets him overhaul the system? The only way that makes any sense to me is that Edgeworth helped him pull the strings needed to let this happen. However, Capcom needs to make the effort to explain this, so they don't just leave this glaring plothole dangling like that.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
I am the Objector.
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Tell me, if you were an apprentice to someone who had a lot of friends, would you want to see them around all of the time? I wouldn't care about them, to be honest. It's the same here. Phoenix's friends just didn't relate to Apollo and his plot, unlike the characters that were used.
But remember, Phoenix used to be a somewhat renowned lawyer, and in the defense attornye world, he is a pretty big figure. If you were an apprentice of someone who had never gotten an incorrect verdict, somehow gotten 15 or so not guilty suspects wo were apprehended, got them off the hook, as well as having met with some of the most prolific prosecutors of the generation (Franziska, Edgeworth, and Godot are all described as being nationally renowned prosecutors- the top in nation, at one point it was said, I believe). He has a shady past, and has a chance of returning to the world of law. And you don't want to meet his friends!?
As his apprentice, I would try to meet as many people as possible, to larn as much as I could by observing them, and so on. Why would anyone with the will to get better not want to meet his friends?
And also, is there a single reference to any old cast characters in the whole game other than people from 1-5 (i.e. Ema)?
Sorry...
Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried to close a revolving door.
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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The Objector wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Tell me, if you were an apprentice to someone who had a lot of friends, would you want to see them around all of the time? I wouldn't care about them, to be honest. It's the same here. Phoenix's friends just didn't relate to Apollo and his plot, unlike the characters that were used.
But remember, Phoenix used to be a somewhat renowned lawyer, and in the defense attornye world, he is a pretty big figure. If you were an apprentice of someone who had never gotten an incorrect verdict, somehow gotten 15 or so not guilty suspects wo were apprehended, got them off the hook, as well as having met with some of the most prolific prosecutors of the generation (Franziska, Edgeworth, and Godot are all described as being nationally renowned prosecutors- the top in nation, at one point it was said, I believe). He has a shady past, and has a chance of returning to the world of law. And you don't want to meet his friends!?
As his apprentice, I would try to meet as many people as possible, to larn as much as I could by observing them, and so on. Why would anyone with the will to get better not want to meet his friends?
And also, is there a single reference to any old cast characters in the whole game other than people from 1-5 (i.e. Ema)?
Sorry...
Yes, to Maya in 4-2 (DVDs and Eldoon), Mia in 4-4 (you had to examine something in the office, I think), and there is Hotti/Hickfield. And there is Larry (Sunshine coliseum background, both times, in his 2 sets of cloths).
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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icer wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
Tell me, if you were an apprentice to someone who had a lot of friends, would you want to see them around all of the time? I wouldn't care about them, to be honest. It's the same here. Phoenix's friends just didn't relate to Apollo and his plot, unlike the characters that were used.
How many times must I repeat myself.
WE PLAY AS PHOENIX, IN BOTH PRESENT AND PAST 7 YEARS AGO. Thus your assertion is irrelevant.
And you, of all people, believe the MASON system tells you everything during that time? That's a weak counterpoint.
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Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
...unless of course they don't have any idea of what do with his character at the point the script was written... thus proving my theory that they haven't planned out this new series at all and are just making things up as they go along.
And this is a possibility. When they were making GS4, how could they even predict if they would be allowed to make a GS5? Capcom didn't commit to 'GS4, 5 and 6', it only committed to GS4. What's the point of making up some fantastic over-encompassing story for 2 or more future games and deliberately only releasing part of it to GS4 if they didn't even know that future games would be produced which is the situation it would be without a commitment from Capcom.
There's 3 reasons why Apollo is so generic. 1. He's supposed to be, to advance the jurist garbage of the player. Apollo is an avatar. 2. Generic enough so some people can self insert aka Twilight [so I'm told]. 3. Most of the new characters are shallow.
They left various things to ensure potential plot points for future games - nothing, I repeat nothing is actually resolved. Apollo and Trucy are siblings - but they aren't told. Thus every option with their relationship is left open. Thalassa is their mother, but they aren't told. Thus every option is left open with their relationship. Phoenix might take the bar exam or he might not - thus every option is left for his character. This all screams 'indecison' on the writers' part. They don't know where this is going, they just left room to plot if they do make a GS5.
Quote:
And you, of all people, believe the MASON system tells you everything during that time? That's a weak counterpoint.
Your point is invalid to begin with. It didn't even need a 'counterpoint'. We see the entirety of the trial anyway.
Szabu wrote:
Yes, to Maya in 4-2 (DVDs and Eldoon), Mia in 4-4 (you had to examine something in the office, I think), and there is Hotti/Hickfield. And there is Larry (Sunshine coliseum background, both times, in his 2 sets of cloths).
Easter eggs. They are NOT permitted to be mentioned by NAME or exert past or present impact on the game plot or characterisation. They have been reduced to the epitome of unperson. [Damnatio memoriae - we aren't allowed to mention their name any more!]
'"Historical revisionism" (also but less often in English "negationism"[2]), as used in this article, describes the process that attempts to rewrite history by minimizing, denying or simply ignoring essential facts.[3]'
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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icer wrote:
There's 3 reasons why Apollo is so generic. 1. He's supposed to be, to advance the jurist garbage of the player. Apollo is an avatar. 2. Generic enough so some people can self insert aka Twilight [so I'm told]. 3. Most of the new characters are shallow.
Disagreed. Polly's problems largely come(IMO) from his likeness to Phoenix. They're almost the same character if you just remove Phoenix backstory and character quirks.
Er.....to put it simply, his personality(wishy-washy on the outside, while having a rather snarky side on the inside) is way to similiar to Phoenix. Add to this: the fact that He got pretty much no backstory,character motivation or character development at all, and you've got yourself a pretty weak character. Same thing with Trucy, 'cept she's slightly less clonish of Maya then Apollo with Phoenix,
But I'm sure its not too late to redeem them.
Which brings me to my next point:Phoenix and friends need to get their scrawny asses out of Apollo's game, unless they get a meaningfull appearence WITHOUT taking over AJ2. Phoenix of course needs to have some loose ends tied up, but, after they've done that he needs to get his badge back, reopen his own law office with the help of his friends, and, assume the same rollf as grossberg had in GS1.
Quote:
They left various things to ensure potential plot points for future games - nothing, I repeat nothing is actually resolved. Apollo and Trucy are siblings - but they aren't told. Thus every option with their relationship is left open. Thalassa is their mother, but they aren't told. Thus every option is left open with their relationship. Phoenix might take the bar exam or he might not - thus every option is left for his character. This all screams 'indecison' on the writers' part. They don't know where this is going, they just left room to plot if they do make a GS5.
This. Ugh the more I think about it, the more do I wish that Phoenix wasn't in GS4 at all.
Errrrr well thats enough ranting for now......
Offtopic:This my first post here so nice meeting you all
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Noting wrote:
Disagreed. Polly's problems largely come(IMO) from his likeness to Phoenix. They're almost the same character if you just remove Phoenix's personality, backstory, motivations, relationships to others, world view, belief system, personal mission, idealistic streak and character quirks and then replace them with practically nothing except some Chords of Steel, Here Comes Justice, a vague wish to learn about law and 'justice' and a sole punch and a desire for a flat screen TV.
Fixed.
Apollo wasn't the same as Phoenix, you can see the obvious attempts to differentiate them. For example, Phoenix's debut line is 'I'm so nervous!" [he even tells the judge he's nervous], Apollo's is 'I'm Fine,' refusing to admit he's nervous. Can't get a more blatant attempt than that.
Phoenix is a character which comes alive in his interactions with others (most notably Edgeworth and Maya) but they bring out the best in him and engage his motivations. Otherwise he mopes or spaces out on the couch. I can't picture that of Apollo, really. In fact, though it was a joke, Apollo's TGS backstory of being locked in storage for the past 22 years does seem an accurate backstory for his character.
Quote:
Phoenix of course needs to have some loose ends tied up, but, after they've done that he needs to get his badge back, reopen his own law office with the help of his friends, and, assume the same rollf as grossberg had in GS1.
Quoted for truth, apart from Grossberg, since all he did was blackmail Misty, remember?
Quote:
This. Ugh the more I think about it, the more do I wish that Phoenix wasn't in GS4 at all.
I think most people reasonably agree on this, considering how it was executed, but it's too late so it's irrelevant.
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
While we may have seen the trial itself, we hadn't seen too much beforehand or afterward.
That's irrelevant. Your claim was ' it was irrelevant to the game to mention Maya or Edgeworth because they are irrelevant to Apollo.' In no way have you proven their mention is irrelevant to PHOENIX and his plot and character and thus irrelevant to the game. We saw just as much pre-trial as any other trial, especially the flashback ones. Take 3-1 for example. Even Grossberg turns up, for ultimate consistency with game 1. And we see plenty post-trial in the MASON garbage.
LOL parody sig trend. Phoenix/Maya Day is Sept 5!
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Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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1. not in need of redeeming
2. can be redeemed
3. can not be redeemed
Anyways the old cast could really help show what makes the new ones tick. The interactions between old and new would allow for some interesting things and could be very fun if done well. Really how would Apollo interact with Edgey, or Franziska, or Maya, or Pearl, or Lary? What if Valant met Zak? So many questions I could ask about the interactions.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Quote:
Apollo wasn't the same as Phoenix, you can see the obvious attempts to differentiate them. For example, Phoenix's debut line is 'I'm so nervous!" [he even tells the judge he's nervous], Apollo's is 'I'm Fine,' refusing to admit he's nervous. Can't get a more blatant attempt than that.
The problem is that they really didn't do anything else. I mean, sure Phoenix is a far more devolped character. But if we just purely look at his personality I believe there's not much of a difference between the two. And considiring personality is all Apollo has got going for him I'd say he reminds way too much of Phoenix.
Sure he may have a couple of different character quirks, but, Apollo is supposed to be a new character right? why not make everything about him new? Why couldn't he just be super-naive on the inside?( "Naw, Klavier wouldn't lie to me would he?) or hot-blooded, like they advertised him ?(''''ARG. Klavier you bastard!! I can see right through you") Or I don't know just not these similiarties:
-They both have a sarcastic side on the inside(this one
-They both have an assistant 7 years younger than them who is easily excitable and has a shitty family
-They are both a bit naive but still have great deductive abillities when pressured.
And this reminds me, Apollo and Trucy have the same dynamic as Maya and Phoenix. I thought they wanted a fresh start ? why fall back on this ?
This is a classic Maya/Phoenix moment during investigation:
Phoenix:*Makes some observation*
Maya:*Says something stupid*
Phoenix:*Corrects/ignores her*
This sort of thing happend way to much in GS4.
Quote:
Apollo:
An impressive gate befitting
the Kitaki Mansion.
Trucy:
Look at the name plate!
"Kitaki"...!
Trucy:
That's so cool! Short and
blunt, like any good gangster!
Ooh! Let's change our name!
Trucy:
How about...
"W. A. A."!
Trucy:
...
Maybe that's too short and
blunt. What do you think?
Apollo:
No comment.
An impressive gate befitting
the Kitaki Mansion.
Trucy:
Look at the name plate!
"Kitaki"...!
Trucy:
That's so cool! Short and
blunt, like any good gangster!
Ooh! Let's change our name!
Trucy:
How about...
"W. A. A."!
Trucy:
...
Maybe that's too short and
blunt. What do you think?
Apollo:
No comment.
Quote:
Quoted for truth, apart from Grossberg, since all he did was blackmail Misty, remember?
I mean similiar importance to the story and similiar appearance.
EDIT:
Quote:
Apollo's TGS backstory of being locked in storage for the past 22 years does seem an accurate backstory for his character.
This made me laugh way too much than it should have
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
I am the Objector.
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:37 am
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Noting wrote:
Quote:
Apollo wasn't the same as Phoenix, you can see the obvious attempts to differentiate them. For example, Phoenix's debut line is 'I'm so nervous!" [he even tells the judge he's nervous], Apollo's is 'I'm Fine,' refusing to admit he's nervous. Can't get a more blatant attempt than that.
The problem is that they really didn't do anything else. I mean, sure Phoenix is a far more developed character. But if we just purely look at his personality I believe there's not much of a difference between the two. And considiring personality is all Apollo has got going for him I'd say he reminds way too much of Phoenix.
Sure he may have a couple of different character quirks, but, Apollo is supposed to be a new character right? why not make everything about him new? Why couldn't he just be super-naive on the inside?( "Naw, Klavier wouldn't lie to me would he?) or hot-blooded, like they advertised him ?(''''ARG. Klavier you bastard!! I can see right through you") Or I don't know just not these similiarties:
-They both have a sarcastic side on the inside(this one
-They both have an assistant 7 years younger than them who is easily excitable and has a shitty family
-They are both a bit naive but still have great deductive abillities when pressured.
And this reminds me, Apollo and Trucy have the same dynamic as Maya and Phoenix. I thought they wanted a fresh start ? why fall back on this ?
This is a classic Maya/Phoenix moment during investigation:
Phoenix:*Makes some observation*
Maya:*Says something stupid*
Phoenix:*Corrects/ignores her*
This sort of thing happend way to much in GS4.
Apollo wasn't the same as Phoenix, you can see the obvious attempts to differentiate them. For example, Phoenix's debut line is 'I'm so nervous!" [he even tells the judge he's nervous], Apollo's is 'I'm Fine,' refusing to admit he's nervous. Can't get a more blatant attempt than that.
The problem is that they really didn't do anything else. I mean, sure Phoenix is a far more developed character. But if we just purely look at his personality I believe there's not much of a difference between the two. And considiring personality is all Apollo has got going for him I'd say he reminds way too much of Phoenix.
Sure he may have a couple of different character quirks, but, Apollo is supposed to be a new character right? why not make everything about him new? Why couldn't he just be super-naive on the inside?( "Naw, Klavier wouldn't lie to me would he?) or hot-blooded, like they advertised him ?(''''ARG. Klavier you bastard!! I can see right through you") Or I don't know just not these similiarties:
-They both have a sarcastic side on the inside(this one
-They both have an assistant 7 years younger than them who is easily excitable and has a shitty family
-They are both a bit naive but still have great deductive abillities when pressured.
And this reminds me, Apollo and Trucy have the same dynamic as Maya and Phoenix. I thought they wanted a fresh start ? why fall back on this ?
This is a classic Maya/Phoenix moment during investigation:
Phoenix:*Makes some observation*
Maya:*Says something stupid*
Phoenix:*Corrects/ignores her*
This sort of thing happend way to much in GS4.
But I see Apollo and Phoenix in such a different way though...
I see Apollo as a kind of workaholic. Getting up way early to practice Chords of Steel, writing everything in a journal, etc. etc. Phoenix wouldn't do that. I saw a lot of moments that what Apollo did would not have worked with Phoenix. Phoenix, in my opinion, is rather slow and lazy, and he won't really get motivated until the trial. For example, if Apollo took Lana's case, he probably would have freaked/not taken the case when he heard Lana's confession. Phoenix seems to have some sort of intuition with people (knowing Lana was innocent). Apollo doesn't connect well with people. Kristoph, Phoenix, and Trucy are the only people he meets on a regular basis. Phoenix had so many more friends and enemies- even in his first game. And Apollo, in my opinion, is very generic, as he is nervous, slightly sarcastic, ultra motivated, basically a sotrybook character.
Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried to close a revolving door.
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
Resident Bookworm
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I'm playing through the trial version of GK right now and the King of Prosecutor's trophy is proudly (?) displayed in Edgeworth's office. I forgot about it but it was also shown in one of the magazine scans that focused on Edgeworth's office too. Plus, in the court-record Edgeworth has the prosecutor's badge they reference in 1-5 (examine the floor in Gant's office if I remember right?).
This'll probably get dismissed by certain people but considering how the developers have said that GK is around T&T and the trophy and badge are things from 1-5 I'd say that's another knock against "AU, lolz". That is, unless people want to start arguing GK is an AU too...
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
Titanium Ronin
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GK should give a lot more evidence either way when ti coems out. I`m fully prepared either way, whatever GK says. I know it WILL say soemthing, since there is a case that takes palce near Wright's office.
Ex. if the game shows Edgey finding out Phoenix was disbarred, I`ll give up the theory. If Phoenix is actually not mentioned or purposely reffered to only vaguely, I`ll consider it more evidence. If it shows he's still a lawyer, I`d say it would confirm the theory.
So really, anything could happen.
Love is Patient, Love is faith, Love is everlasting
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Robin Goodfellow wrote:
This'll probably get dismissed by certain people but considering how the developers have said that GK is around T&T and the trophy and badge are things from 1-5 I'd say that's another knock against "AU, lolz". That is, unless people want to start arguing GK is an AU too...
As Handren said, 1-5 is in the continuity of both conceptual timelines - GS2/3 and GS4, since the split is after.
GK has no bearing on whether GS4 was written conceptually as a sequel to 1-5/game 1 alone, as GK wasn't even conceived when GS4 came out. It merely gives a long awaited hint on how the discontinuity will be handled [or not] in future by the franchise.
Of course a lot of people would love it to be a ret-con where Edgeworth rushes to assist Phoenix after he's disbarred etc or at least is given a reason why he can't help [and I can't see how the Apollo fanboys can deny this as It's Edgeworth's Game Now!]GK could conceivably be used to re-reconcile the conceptual timelines and fix some of the gross discontinuity. However, I think it will probably skirt the issue. And of course, meaningful reference to character development in both GS3 and GS4 are required to establish its continuity in both timelines.
[And unless Edgeworth takes his office interior and Gumshoe overseas, he already seems to be working as prosecutor in Phoenix's home city around the time Phoenix was disbarred, making it even less likely he could do nothing because he was based overseas etc. Edgeworth could have called an inquiry into the forged evidence and the truth come out, it would not have taken 7 years.]
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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I mean, for me it was acceptable in AJ because we saw so little, and those parts were little fragments chosen deliberately to exluce the old cast to avoid confusion.
But if GK really takes place during and after T&T, and there'll be no mention of Phoenix and his disbarring, that would be... very unfortunate.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
The Mouth of Sauron
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Szabu wrote:
And this is why I'm a little afraid, because we hadn't seen yet that Phoenix will be in the game.
I mean, for me it was acceptable in AJ because we saw so little, and those parts were little fragments chosen deliberately to exluce the old cast to avoid confusion.
But if GK really takes place during and after T&T, and there'll be no mention of Phoenix and his disbarring, that would be... very unfortunate.
I mean, for me it was acceptable in AJ because we saw so little, and those parts were little fragments chosen deliberately to exluce the old cast to avoid confusion.
But if GK really takes place during and after T&T, and there'll be no mention of Phoenix and his disbarring, that would be... very unfortunate.
I could probably live with it, if it is a fun game.
Gozu wrote:
omg ur just lik
did ur parents di or somefin
did ur parents di or somefin
icer wrote:
Trucy: [Daddy was fired from legal clerk for loitering] Daddy has a fun new job as a street sweeper!
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
Bronze Samurai
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Handren wrote:
I believe it was said that the theory includes 1-5 in BOTH timelines.The splitting point is after it, not before. So there's nothing to confirm or Deny there.
GK should give a lot more evidence either way when it coems out. I`m fully prepared either way, whatever GK says. I know it WILL say soemthing, since there is a case that takes palce near Wright's office.
Ex. if the game shows Edgey finding out Phoenix was disbarred, I`ll give up the theory. If Phoenix is actually not mentioned or purposely reffered to only vaguely, I`ll consider it more evidence. If it shows he's still a lawyer, I`d say it would confirm the theory.
So really, anything could happen.
GK should give a lot more evidence either way when it coems out. I`m fully prepared either way, whatever GK says. I know it WILL say soemthing, since there is a case that takes palce near Wright's office.
Ex. if the game shows Edgey finding out Phoenix was disbarred, I`ll give up the theory. If Phoenix is actually not mentioned or purposely reffered to only vaguely, I`ll consider it more evidence. If it shows he's still a lawyer, I`d say it would confirm the theory.
So really, anything could happen.
With any luck, it'll mention that Phoenix was infact disbarred and finally prove you people wrong.
Julia...<3Related to NaturallyLazy, fatalfeline, JadeRoach, and Game Over!
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
With any luck, it'll mention that Phoenix was infact disbarred and finally prove you people wrong.
That won't 'prove' anything about the writers' intentions when they were writing GS4. It will merely determine how it's going to be handled with regards to the GK timeline.
[Um, is Edgeworth High Prosecutor now in case 1? That's what the translation seemed to imply. He'd have even more power to conduct an immediate enquiry into the forged evidence and Klavier would have been his subordinate.]
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
spr fckn srs peepz
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icer wrote:
[Um, is Edgeworth High Prosecutor now in case 1? That's what the translation seemed to imply. He'd have even more power to conduct an immediate enquiry into the forged evidence and Klavier would have been his subordinate.]
Considering how many of his trials have direct interaction with Phoenix, I'd dare say he's handling this as much as he can on his side before he can really help Phoenix.
Let's face it, if people believe that Phoenix used false evidence in ALL his trials, imagine how the people's perception of Edgeworth will be. Especially seeing as he lost 2-3 times to it (2 if you don't count 1-5, 3 if you do).
http://vanderlund.blogspot.com - Because the only fantasy worlds I like are those I write myself.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
The Mouth of Sauron
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icer wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
With any luck, it'll mention that Phoenix was infact disbarred and finally prove you people wrong.
That won't 'prove' anything about the writers' intentions when they were writing GS4. It will merely determine how it's going to be handled with regards to the GK timeline.
Then we can both agree that this is a pointless fucking argument, if that's the approach you'd like to take.
Gozu wrote:
omg ur just lik
did ur parents di or somefin
did ur parents di or somefin
icer wrote:
Trucy: [Daddy was fired from legal clerk for loitering] Daddy has a fun new job as a street sweeper!
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
Resident Bookworm
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Emperor Ing wrote:
icer wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
With any luck, it'll mention that Phoenix was infact disbarred and finally prove you people wrong.
That won't 'prove' anything about the writers' intentions when they were writing GS4. It will merely determine how it's going to be handled with regards to the GK timeline.
Then we can both agree that this is a pointless fucking argument, if that's the approach you'd like to take.
Emperor Ing's right. The way your talking your already setting up GK to be yet ANOTHER AU/timeline. I'm betting even if GK had a titanic sized boat of references to the previous games and dealt with what happened to Phoenix you'd just say "Oh, it's because it's a branching point in the time lines" because as according to you it'll only "determine how it's going to be handled in regards to the GK timeline". Exactly how is it going to be handled differently? Is Trucy magically going to disappear? Is Edgeworth going to magically help prove Phoenix's innocence? Is Phoenix going to get a different job other than a piano playing poker player? If his disbarrment is handled differently in the "GK timeline" does that mean *gasp* maybe Kristophe doesn't exist and the disbarrment was for a different reason? Oh, and maybe if GK were to deal with Phoenix's situation and it coincides with AJ you'd draw up a list of contradictions or say "it didn't directly SAY this was this so it doesn't mean it was something from the previous games! It could have been anything!" so you can blissfully say "AU, lolz."
Bottom line, you're so hung on this theory that nothing short of flashing neon on lights from the creators saying "THIS IS NOT AN AU!" (and they really shouldn't have to) is going to change your mind because that is the reality you want the most. Praying, debating, writing essays, stating a list of reason why it SHOULD be an AU doesn't suddenly make AJ disappear and doesn't make it any less "canon" or separate from the rest of the games.
Re: Designated Old Cast Topic
The Mouth of Sauron
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That last post by dear icer clinched the deal for me. I would recommend slowly phasing out of the topic, and either letting it die, or getting back on to its original track (now there's a thought!).
If you want to keep on arguing and making huge walls of text, I won't stop you all, but in truth, they are intrinsically worthless walls of text that ya'll should stop wasting your time with.
Gozu wrote:
omg ur just lik
did ur parents di or somefin
did ur parents di or somefin
icer wrote:
Trucy: [Daddy was fired from legal clerk for loitering] Daddy has a fun new job as a street sweeper!
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....
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