Which Gavin do like (or hate) more?

rydus65 · Post by **rydus65** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:33 pm

Klavier or Kristoph?

Kristoph for me. Klavier's OK as a rocker, don't care for him as a prosecutor. Mainly because he helped Apollo too much, even if he didn't need it. I don't know why I like Kristoph. Guess it's just the personality.

peter2201 · Post by **peter2201** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:34 am

Klavier.

His objection is my second favorite(next to edgeworths). :edgeworth:

DynoStretch · Post by **DynoStretch** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:17 am

I despise them both equally. :gant-clap:

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:37 am

They're both lame in their own very special ways.

Klavier for being an oh-so-special guy who's a rock star and is just the nicest prosecutor ever (except for when he's being an insulting asshole and withholding evidence for no good reason, while never getting called on it) and gag me with a fucking spoon, why don't ya? You know what would be great? If the guy had any character at all, instead of the lazy characterization of "He's just a generically nice guy, I guess."

Kristoph was actually responsible for a really cool plot twist in the first case, but son of a bitch, was the plot in the last day of the final case telegraphed and dragged out to hell or what? Although I guess the writers sucking at pacing isn't really the character's fault, so Kristoph is the Gavin I like more.

Essa_L_M.E · Post by **Essa_L_M.E** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:06 am

Kristoph for me too. I liked him as soon as I saw him. I liked Klavier too, but not as much. He was a bit too nice as a prosecutor. It almost made the cases too easy. I liked how he was a rockstar and also how he came off as a pretty boy but

Spoiler: Hooray for spoiler tags!

Klavier was a good character for the fangirls, but I'd rather fangirl over the deeper, more mysterious character.

Also, his Objection is screems "IM BETTER THAN YOU!"

phoenixwrightmaster · Post by **phoenixwrightmaster** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:28 pm

klavier for me

Ezio Auditore · Post by **Ezio Auditore** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:31 pm

klavier, i can't stand kristoph.

P!ATD · Post by **P!ATD** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:29 pm

Klavier, Kristoph did my head in.

MapleRose · Post by **MapleRose** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:25 pm

I don't particularly like either of them, but I dislike Klavier less I guess, since I have this grudge against Kristoph because of a certain Hobo I love ^^;

As for interesting characters though, I think Kristoph had more potential to be an interesting character. Psychotic, yes, but at least he's not as 1D as his brother. With Klavier, I feel that if you take away the "Euro rocker fangirl magnet", there's nothing left. Seriously, I don't even know why he's even a prosecutor, it seems he'd have a much more successful career as a rock star; his attitude for prosecuting is more like a side job, and I think he belongs more on the stage than in court...

Franziska's Whip · Post by **Franziska's Whip** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:20 pm

I don't really care about either, but I guess Klavier because he's "nicer", although he can be a bit of a brat. :yuusaku:

SuperGanondorf · Post by **SuperGanondorf** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:39 pm

I like them both, personally, but I like Kristoph more (I'm the kind of person who loves the psycho types). You should probably add a poll to this thread; it would make more sense.

Carlis · Post by **Carlis** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:24 am

I prefer Kristoph right now, since he's actually the 'more developed' guy compared to Klavier. Klavier is just...Kind of bland. Maybe it's because GS4 tried to cram so much in, what with the whole 'oh noez, phoenix's now a hobo' thing. As a result, both Apollo and Klavier ended up not being as fleshed out as they should be. Right now all the personality we know of them is basically...Made up personality by the fanon? There's no history for them, no backstory, which is very nice for fanfic authors, but weaken the character in general.

We have to wait for them to come back in GS5 I suppose, to really decide. If they come back. :\

MapleRose · Post by **MapleRose** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:47 pm

Carlis wrote:I prefer Kristoph right now, since he's actually the 'more developed' guy compared to Klavier. Klavier is just...Kind of bland. Maybe it's because GS4 tried to cram so much in, what with the whole 'oh noez, phoenix's now a hobo' thing. As a result, both Apollo and Klavier ended up not being as fleshed out as they should be. Right now all the personality we know of them is basically...Made up personality by the fanon? There's no history for them, no backstory, which is very nice for fanfic authors, but weaken the character in general.

Exactly! Somewhere in there, what was supposed to be Apollo vs Klavier ended up being HoboNick vs Kristoph XD I personally don't mind 'cause I like :hobohodo:

, but for a series with his name on it, Apollo as a character is pretty shallow (esp compared to :phoenix:

in his first game); same with Klavier, he didn't get nearly as much character development as :edgeworth:

did in the first game either.

Cravat of Doom · Post by **Cravat of Doom** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:28 pm

Kristoph... Speak to me about Ace Attorney and within five minutes you'll know that. xD

I could drone on about my love of Krissi, but my preference has just as much to do with the fact that Klavier is boring, as mentioned earlier.

It's like Capcom was so proud of themselves with Kristoph that they completely forgot about making a prosecutor. This is probably how the conversation went:

-2 weeks before the end of production-
Developer 1: Wow, we really outdid ourselves this time! What a great character!
Developer 2: ...
Developer 1: ...Oh damn, we forgot a prosecutor!
Developer 2: Smart.
Developer 1: Uhh, we could bring Edgeworth back?
Developer 2: No, he's getting his own game soon.
Developer 1: *stares at Kristoph profile* How about we give him a brother?
Developer 2: And he can be the prosecutor!
Developer 1: Oh, we're good!
Developer 2: But we need to make him different. Quick! Give me a word.
Developer 1: Uh....rock!
Developer 2: Alrighty then, he's a rock star.

.Marisa. · Post by **.Marisa.** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:37 pm

I think Kristoph is more interesting (as stated above). But I'm fine with Klavier too, even though he isn't one of my favorites.

Essa_L_M.E · Post by **Essa_L_M.E** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:26 am

Cravat of Doom wrote:Kristoph... Speak to me about Ace Attorney and within five minutes you'll know that. xD

I could drone on about my love of Krissi, but my preference has just as much to do with the fact that Klavier is boring, as mentioned earlier.

It's like Capcom was so proud of themselves with Kristoph that they completely forgot about making a prosecutor. This is probably how the conversation went:

-2 weeks before the end of production-
Developer 1: Wow, we really outdid ourselves this time! What a great character!
Developer 2: ...
Developer 1: ...Oh damn, we forgot a prosecutor!
Developer 2: Smart.
Developer 1: Uhh, we could bring Edgeworth back?
Developer 2: No, he's getting his own game soon.
Developer 1: *stares at Kristoph profile* How about we give him a brother?
Developer 2: And he can be the prosecutor!
Developer 1: Oh, we're good!
Developer 2: But we need to make him different. Quick! Give me a word.
Developer 1: Uh....rock!
Developer 2: Alrighty then, he's a rock star.

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a while.

Coffee Prosecutor · Post by **Coffee Prosecutor** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:35 am

I like Klavier more that Kristoph
however his name in German is gay(Kantilen, is that even a name?)
Although his objections are all awesome
and the sprites are cool too
and Kristoph is just a jealous bastard

Phoenix Minamimoto · Post by **Phoenix Minamimoto** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:42 pm

I hate Klavier more than Kristoph. Klavier was a boring character, and I feel that they could have used a much better prosecutor. On the other hand, Kristoph gave the game a much needed "superevil" character, and was very satisfying to finally take down.

Chloe · Post by **Chloe** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:21 pm

They're okay characters. I prefere Kristoph more cause I do. I used to love Klavier but now I think he's fake now.

ilygodot · Post by **ilygodot** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:06 pm

Kristoph for the epic win, but in some fanfics, you gotta love klavgav!!! <3
:garyuu:

kaisap112 · Post by **kaisap112** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:16 pm

Kristoph. He's just more my type.
And he's got way classier quotes than Klavier! :garyuu:

"What possible conclusion do you think this "investigation" of yours can lead to? I killed a man named "Smith" with a bottle because I am an evil human being. ...Isn't that enough?" -Kristoph Gavin

Enough said. *bows out*

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:10 pm

I like Kristoph a lot more. Klavier just was pretty bland in my opinion. I can't help but feel like he's just there for fanservice, but that could just be me. Can you say estrogen brigade bait?

Kristoph just oozes cool and evilness. Go evilness! I always tend to like the villains, so that doesn't help very much.

Tenderlender · Post by **Tenderlender** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:16 pm

I'd have to say I hate them both, but I hate Klavier even more. Snob.

Ramika · Post by **Ramika** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:17 pm

Well, to me Kristoph was kinda "meh". I don't dislike him or anything, but I just prefer Klavier. There's that certain honest and likeable feeling about him, not to mention he's freaking hot. Fanservice? Maybe, but consider my inner fangirl very well serviced. :sparkly-maggey:

Archaezephyrnodon · Post by **Archaezephyrnodon** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:09 pm

Eh, I'm going to vote for Klavier since everyone is voting for Kristoph.
I'll give the reasons:

Why I like Klavier:
His theme song is AWESOME!
He speaks German
He's not a crazy psychopath murderer like his brother
He's quite freaking ~~sexy~~ hot for a ~~fop~~ prosecutor

Why I like Kristoph
He's nice one time, completely mentally disordered the next
Head Shake is cool, no?

Post by **Bad Player** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:37 pm

Ugh. I had a whole anti-Klavier rant typed out, but my computer decided to delete it. Anyway, abridged version:

Klavier is too perfect, too unrealistic, and too easy of a prosecutor. There's absolutely no credibility or room for growth in his character. As someone else said, "With prosecutors like Klavier, who needs defense attornies?"

While Kristoph was not the most original character, at least

Spoiler: 4-4

Cravat of Doom · Post by **Cravat of Doom** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:48 pm

I would have loved if Kristoph was the GS4 prosecutor. :keiko:

Coffee Prosecutor · Post by **Coffee Prosecutor** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:17 am

After replaying AJ, I made my mind a lot and came to the conclusion that my last interpretation was wrong, in my eyes.
Kristoph cleary is the better Gavin.
Klav is a biatch. He may be a rockstar but why the hell a prosecutor?
And another prodigy?
Seems like copy-pasted to me.
His theme is okay, but Klav is no real prosecutor. He only helped Apollo.
And in 4-3 he framed Machy for only one reason: In order to keep the Gavinners complete.
What a bastard >_>

End Quote · Post by **End Quote** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:54 am

They're both OK I guess... I like Kristoph better than Klavier

Marche Tobaye · Post by **Marche Tobaye** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:43 am

Coffee Prosecutor wrote:After replaying AJ, I made my mind a lot and came to the conclusion that my last interpretation was wrong, in my eyes.
Kristoph cleary is the better Gavin.
Klav is a biatch. He may be a rockstar but why the hell a prosecutor?
And another prodigy?
Seems like copy-pasted to me.
His theme is okay, but Klav is no real prosecutor. He only helped Apollo.
And in 4-3 he framed Marche for only one reason: In order to keep the Gavinners complete.
What a bastard >_>

Hurrrrr.

I agree though. Klavier is cool, but he's a jerk. Remember when he told Wocky about his injury? He did it while humming a song and laughing.

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:39 pm

Marche Tobaye wrote:
Coffee Prosecutor wrote:After replaying AJ, I made my mind a lot and came to the conclusion that my last interpretation was wrong, in my eyes.
Kristoph cleary is the better Gavin.
Klav is a biatch. He may be a rockstar but why the hell a prosecutor?
And another prodigy?
Seems like copy-pasted to me.
His theme is okay, but Klav is no real prosecutor. He only helped Apollo.
And in 4-3 he framed Marche for only one reason: In order to keep the Gavinners complete.
What a bastard >_>

Hurrrrr.

I agree though. Klavier is cool, but he's a jerk. Remember when he told Wocky about his injury? He did it while humming a song and laughing.

Klavier is a piece of shit, really.

--Haha, Wocky's going to die, isn't that FUNNY? LMAO.

--Resorts to insulting Apollo's physical features and calling him names almost immediately.

--Attitude towards Detective Skye is a sexual harassment lawsuit waiting to happen.

--Talks about how much he cares for the truth, but doesn't actually care enough to do anything, other than wait for Apollo to find the truth and pretend like it was his idea all along.

--Doesn't share information with the detectives on investigations; purposefully withholds relevant information that could affect the case until the moment when Apollo figures it out anyway (ALL THE TIME in 4-3)

--Offers Alita Tiala an alibi when she didn't know how to explain why she left her shoes in Meraktis Clinic.

--Shows more emotion when his bandmate misses a note on-stage than finding out his brother and his best friend are murderers COMBINED.

--Tries to coerce Spark Brushel into lying on the witness stand by offering him exclusive rights to the story.

Cravat of Doom · Post by **Cravat of Doom** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:57 pm

Icarus wrote:--Shows more emotion when his bandmate misses a note on-stage than finding out his brother and his best friend are murderers COMBINED.

I'm not the only one who noticed that, I guess. That made me angry. He was all pissed off when Daryan missed one cue that no one noticed...And was emotionless when Daryan and Kristoph were arrested. Not only that, but he made a point to tell Kristoph that he "wasn't needed".

But I really don't hate Klavier despite this; he's just a relatively flat character who desperately needs more development.

Ramika · Post by **Ramika** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:22 pm

There's something about this thread that prevents people from ranting, it seems. :D Someone before lost an anti-Klavier rant, and now that I had a long text about why Klavier DOESN'T suck, electricity died (hooray for thunderstorms) and my computer booted. Clearly a conspiracy.

Aaanyhow... poor Klav, he can't help it that he's an emo bitch about music. Don't hold it against him. ;_; *fangirl*

weirdghostboo · Post by **weirdghostboo** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:24 pm

Why I do like Klavier more, Kristoph seems more fleshed out. ~~Though my sister just told me that their little sister in one of my fanfics epics over both of them~~ I just think Kristoph had more personality, and Klavier was used for his...amazing totally hot so cool sexiness (yes, I am a fangirl. Bite me). And I do have a reason why he got so emotionless in 4-4.

Spoiler: 4-4

'Sides, you guys need to think about what would be happening to Klavier on the INSIDE, not just the out. Just because he's emotionless on the outside, it could be tearing at his insides like a rabid beast.

Anyway, in my opinion, it's a toss-up. I do think Kristoph has more personality, but I'm a self-confessed Klavier fangirl. *shame!*

Ramika · Post by **Ramika** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:20 pm

weirdghostboo wrote:'Sides, you guys need to think about what would be happening to Klavier on the INSIDE, not just the out. Just because he's emotionless on the outside, it could be tearing at his insides like a rabid beast.

Yes! That's pretty much what I was ranting about before the electricity went down.

I do realise that his emotions below the surface are completely fanon, but it's not really hard to imagine.
... And I'm just a sucker for that glimmerous fop -smile of his. With a smile like that you can hide a lot of things.

Othello · Post by **Othello** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:22 am

,

is just a poser

PandaPrinzessin · Post by **PandaPrinzessin** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:43 pm

Hmm, it's a difficult one~

I love Kristoph's elegance (I do like a man who appreciates good nail grooming) and evil scheming- he got the better characterisation of the two. And I admit to having practically splurged up my intestines in shock when I realised you were supposed to accuse him in the very first case DX

But, that said, I think I'm one of the few who doesn't find Klavier bland. I do desperately wish that Capcom had fleshed him out a bit more- I want a backstory like Edgeworth, Godot and Franziska got- but that doesn't spoil him for me at all. And he made me laugh with his bitchy diva-ness in Turnabout Serenade~ I just didn't feel like he was a flat character- I felt like he was one we didn't get to know enough about. I mean, you didn't get to see him much at all during the investigation phases, compared to in JFA where Franziska pops up literally everywhere...

Fangirl bait? Perhaps, but it kept me pretty happy <3

Ramika wrote:
weirdghostboo wrote:'Sides, you guys need to think about what would be happening to Klavier on the INSIDE, not just the out. Just because he's emotionless on the outside, it could be tearing at his insides like a rabid beast.

Yes! That's pretty much what I was ranting about before the electricity went down.

I do realise that his emotions below the surface are completely fanon, but it's not really hard to imagine.
... And I'm just a sucker for that glimmerous fop -smile of his. With a smile like that you can hide a lot of things.

Totally agree~ My perception of Klavier is that he internalises things- he doesn't seem like one to cry in front of people. Heck, I wouldn't want to do that, so I find this pretty understandable. And, yes, the smile.... Forget any character flaws, his overall gorgeousness makes up for it in my book :3

Cravat of Doom wrote:It's like Capcom was so proud of themselves with Kristoph that they completely forgot about making a prosecutor. This is probably how the conversation went:

Hmmm, it is weird, considering that they actually came up with concept stuff for Klavier before they were able to start doing Kristoph~

"The development team had some trouble coming up with the original concept for Kristoph. It wasn't until after they focused on Klavier that they were able to mirror some of his image back onto his older brother."

I guess that would be the hair :3

Where'sMaiEdgy-poo? · Post by **Where'sMaiEdgy-poo?** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:46 pm

I'll say Kristoph. He's soooo sexy.... not as sexy as my Edgy-poo but still sexy... and he's witty and intelligent!

LovelyLarxene · Post by **LovelyLarxene** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:34 pm

Hmmmm...I really like both of the Gavins, but I think I like Kristoph a bit more. I tend to go for the more refined, sophisticated gentlemen. ;) Plus, Kristoph has an intriguing personality, very cold and calculating...

However, I LOVE Klavier too. He's a really great foil for Kristoph in my opinion. I agree with everyone who said they wish he had been fleshed out a bit more, as well as those who believe he was truly broken up on the inside during 4-4. And he's not too hard on the eyes either. :D

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:07 am

weirdghostboo wrote:And I do have a reason why he got so emotionless in 4-4.

Spoiler: 4-4
So, Kristoph's on the witness stand, and by this point it is blatantly obvious that Kristoph is the murderer, and he's pretty much going insane. *cue Kristoph's totally epic amazing breakdown* So, Klavier's thoughts are probably like this: "Well, my brother's an insane human being who wanted to kill to protect his reputation. Not to mention that he's evil too. So, the brother who helped out all these years, who helped me ride a bike (Me: That's my opinion at least) and basically took care of me ever since I came to America is a bastard. Well, that seriously hurts, but I will NOT break down in court, and I will not give Kristoph the satisfaction that got to me. So act cool, calm, and collected, and I will cry about this ~~with Kerstin~~ later. Now, I gotta toughen myself up." And henceforth, Klavier's emotionless for the last part of 4-4 because he wants to keep his head held high, and not show what was tearing at his insides.

'Sides, you guys need to think about what would be happening to Klavier on the INSIDE, not just the out. Just because he's emotionless on the outside, it could be tearing at his insides like a rabid beast.

C'mon, that's a major copout. Klavier is visibly angry when Vera is just testifying about the forgery, and then there's nothing when he discovers that Kristoph is the one that ordered the forgery and manipulated Klavier into framing an innocent man. Klavier clearly has no problem getting angry or being surprised when he's prosecuting, so it rings hollow and smacks of writer laziness that he has no emotional response, be it hurt, anger or sadness, when he discovers that his brother and best friend are criminals who abused his trust.